sunsbg wrote:Phoenix Dominaytons.
Sh*t you are right
Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22
sunsbg wrote:Phoenix Dominaytons.
KLEON wrote:sunsbg wrote:Phoenix Dominaytons.
Sh*t you are right
garrick wrote:I hate being right about this team.
As I said a few days ago I fear the Kings and OKC more than Denver because our defense is too slow, too old and too short to contest any of OKC's shots.
Giddey is a horrible offensive player and he blew by the defense all night long.
Slim Charless wrote:MrMiyagi wrote:The timing of the trade was awful. No need to have done it at the deadline last year. People love the Nurkic trade, imagine if he had players who knew how to find open space like Cam and Mikal. Everyone on this team just stands around.bwgood77 wrote:
Yeah, a lot of arguments about it being a good trade, but are we really better? And now building for the future is infinitely tougher. If we don't make the playoffs, do they make a big trade? Or if we do and lose in the first round in embarrassing fashion?
Trading those guys was fine. They've proven themselves to be non-difference makers in Brooklyn. The problem was trading them PLUS all of our picks for Durant-when we were the only suitor. Makes 0 sense.
Make the trade. But tell the Nets they either get the players or all of the picks. 1 or the other. Not both.
Hell, I'd probably be advocating moving them now if they were here. Imagine if Giannis or Embiid become available in the next 12 months? Even on a bigger scale how about Luka or Tatum? Those players are who sell everything for. Not this, though as I've said, it's not really KD's fault as he has played awesome.
It's why we need to trade him this summer if we get too many more nights like tonight.
bwgood77 wrote:MrMiyagi wrote:Big 3: 20-13
Book/KD: 12-8
Book/Beal: 3-1
Beal/KD: 4-4
KD: 2-4
Book: 2-1
Beal: 0-0
Total: 43-31
So looks like Book/Beal is our best combo. 75% winning %. Oh how they'd be with Bridges/Cam/Allen/Nurkic/O'Neale.
bwgood77 wrote:MrMiyagi wrote:Big 3: 20-13
Book/KD: 12-8
Book/Beal: 3-1
Beal/KD: 4-4
KD: 2-4
Book: 2-1
Beal: 0-0
Total: 43-31
So looks like Book/Beal is our best combo. 75% winning %. Oh how they'd be with Bridges/Cam/Allen/Nurkic/O'Neale.
Son of Ra wrote:Slim Charless wrote:MrMiyagi wrote:The timing of the trade was awful. No need to have done it at the deadline last year. People love the Nurkic trade, imagine if he had players who knew how to find open space like Cam and Mikal. Everyone on this team just stands around.
Trading those guys was fine. They've proven themselves to be non-difference makers in Brooklyn. The problem was trading them PLUS all of our picks for Durant-when we were the only suitor. Makes 0 sense.
Make the trade. But tell the Nets they either get the players or all of the picks. 1 or the other. Not both.
Hell, I'd probably be advocating moving them now if they were here. Imagine if Giannis or Embiid become available in the next 12 months? Even on a bigger scale how about Luka or Tatum? Those players are who sell everything for. Not this, though as I've said, it's not really KD's fault as he has played awesome.
It's why we need to trade him this summer if we get too many more nights like tonight.
I don't think that is the right way to assess this. They are absolutely perfect, A+ complementary pieces not number one options. Exactly what we're lacking. Way more than we benefit from yet another (supposedly) number 1 option.
You can't say they're trash because Brooklyn isn't better, that's not what these guys are. We'll never know but I think we'd have a better record with them instead of Durant.
We're extremely top heavy without a leader in the bunch. They're all just followers. When the going gets tough they look for someone to defer to just we don't have hat guy.
And we obviously could've shored up our roster with the picks or could do now but we agree on that anyways.
Saberestar wrote:bwgood77 wrote:MrMiyagi wrote:Big 3: 20-13
Book/KD: 12-8
Book/Beal: 3-1
Beal/KD: 4-4
KD: 2-4
Book: 2-1
Beal: 0-0
Total: 43-31
So looks like Book/Beal is our best combo. 75% winning %. Oh how they'd be with Bridges/Cam/Allen/Nurkic/O'Neale.
Super small sample size, not even worth to consider it.
Book and Beal are having disappointing seasons. KD is deserving every penny on his contract but you can't say the same about Book and Beal this year.
Both need to play better, specially Book who is the face of the franchise and is having a meh year when he is in his absolute prime.
Puff wrote:bwgood77 wrote:MrMiyagi wrote:Big 3: 20-13
Book/KD: 12-8
Book/Beal: 3-1
Beal/KD: 4-4
KD: 2-4
Book: 2-1
Beal: 0-0
Total: 43-31
So looks like Book/Beal is our best combo. 75% winning %. Oh how they'd be with Bridges/Cam/Allen/Nurkic/O'Neale.
You are one of the ones that always try to justify the trade for Beal. It will go down as one of the dumbest decisions in the history of this franchise. We now have three guys that are and have been great scorers with no business of trying to be the lead facilitator. That is what they do along with Nurkic. I also am not convinced that the Ayton trade will turn out well when all is said and done. However, we did get good value.
This mess started with the trade for KD which I did not agree with at all. It could be and probably will be deemed worse than the Beal trade.
So, when we go back to prior to KD. All we wanted was a legit replacement for CP3 along with a PF that could be used as a small ball five and a great defensive force alongside Ayton.
I am sure management think that the additions of KD and Beal solves those problems. They are wrong and it is going to get worse going forward.
Thanks Matt
I am jealous of that team in OKC. They are really good, and I wish them great success. Unless by some miracle we get a chance to play them in the playoffs.
bwgood77 wrote:Son of Ra wrote:Slim Charless wrote:
Trading those guys was fine. They've proven themselves to be non-difference makers in Brooklyn. The problem was trading them PLUS all of our picks for Durant-when we were the only suitor. Makes 0 sense.
Make the trade. But tell the Nets they either get the players or all of the picks. 1 or the other. Not both.
Hell, I'd probably be advocating moving them now if they were here. Imagine if Giannis or Embiid become available in the next 12 months? Even on a bigger scale how about Luka or Tatum? Those players are who sell everything for. Not this, though as I've said, it's not really KD's fault as he has played awesome.
It's why we need to trade him this summer if we get too many more nights like tonight.
I don't think that is the right way to assess this. They are absolutely perfect, A+ complementary pieces not number one options. Exactly what we're lacking. Way more than we benefit from yet another (supposedly) number 1 option.
You can't say they're trash because Brooklyn isn't better, that's not what these guys are. We'll never know but I think we'd have a better record with them instead of Durant.
We're extremely top heavy without a leader in the bunch. They're all just followers. When the going gets tough they look for someone to defer to just we don't have hat guy.
And we obviously could've shored up our roster with the picks or could do now but we agree on that anyways.
Yeah, I think we've more than proven having more stars isn't necessarily better. OKC just proved a lot of role players who can play tough d and hit 3s is huge.
Those guys along with Book (and Paul) were great with Ayton or Landale or whoever. Beal is the best replacement we could have gotten for Paul after missing out on Haliburton. Those 4 with Allen, Nurk, Bol, O'Neale if available would have been very nice and probably with great chemistry.
Slim Charless wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Son of Ra wrote:I don't think that is the right way to assess this. They are absolutely perfect, A+ complementary pieces not number one options. Exactly what we're lacking. Way more than we benefit from yet another (supposedly) number 1 option.
You can't say they're trash because Brooklyn isn't better, that's not what these guys are. We'll never know but I think we'd have a better record with them instead of Durant.
We're extremely top heavy without a leader in the bunch. They're all just followers. When the going gets tough they look for someone to defer to just we don't have hat guy.
And we obviously could've shored up our roster with the picks or could do now but we agree on that anyways.
Yeah, I think we've more than proven having more stars isn't necessarily better. OKC just proved a lot of role players who can play tough d and hit 3s is huge.
Those guys along with Book (and Paul) were great with Ayton or Landale or whoever. Beal is the best replacement we could have gotten for Paul after missing out on Haliburton. Those 4 with Allen, Nurk, Bol, O'Neale if available would have been very nice and probably with great chemistry.
The best use we could've made of those dudes was to showcase them last year after the trade deadline and them shipped them off for another star.
Guess who would've been the best target BW? Guess who's having the best season of his career and was also at basement level of value last offseason? The guy you constantly argue with me on.
Zion. The guy I've been preaching about for years now is finally showing up and he could've been had EASILY after his whole thing.
He'd would've been the perfect guy to put next to Book. Now, you shift from telling me he sucks to telling me the Pels would never trade him. I assume you're gonna say that they would've told us no but you'd be wrong. After the porn star thing and all the other nonsense he was available and probably could've been had for Mikal (the version that ended the season) and a pick swap.
The best use of Mikal and CamJo was to trade them-just not for KD with all of our picks
bwgood77 wrote:Saberestar wrote:bwgood77 wrote:
So looks like Book/Beal is our best combo. 75% winning %. Oh how they'd be with Bridges/Cam/Allen/Nurkic/O'Neale.
Super small sample size, not even worth to consider it.
Book and Beal are having disappointing seasons. KD is deserving every penny on his contract but you can't say the same about Book and Beal this year.
Both need to play better, specially Book who is the face of the franchise and is having a meh year when he is in his absolute prime.
I was joking. You seem to really defend the trade but also it seems you had a thread a couple year ago, maybe two threads over the past 3 asking if this was the best Suns team ever.
Do you think we are better now?
Saberestar wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Saberestar wrote:Super small sample size, not even worth to consider it.
Book and Beal are having disappointing seasons. KD is deserving every penny on his contract but you can't say the same about Book and Beal this year.
Both need to play better, specially Book who is the face of the franchise and is having a meh year when he is in his absolute prime.
I was joking. You seem to really defend the trade but also it seems you had a thread a couple year ago, maybe two threads over the past 3 asking if this was the best Suns team ever.
Do you think we are better now?
Yeah, but it was all around CP3.
CP3 was our best player in his first two seasons on the Suns and he played at a similar level of Steve Nash during those two years. Sadly he started fading in front of our eyes and that changed completely the potential of that team.
I think we are better now than the team that could have been here without the KD trade.That team had a worse record at the deadline that this year's team and a lot of fans wanted changes.
I know that you think that we had a bad record because of injuries but this season we have had plenty of injuries too so that's not a factor IMO.
bwgood77 wrote:I was joking. You seem to really defend the trade but also it seems you had a thread a couple year ago, maybe two threads over the past 3 asking if this was the best Suns team ever.
Do you think we are better now?
bwgood77 wrote:Slim Charless wrote:bwgood77 wrote:
Yeah, I think we've more than proven having more stars isn't necessarily better. OKC just proved a lot of role players who can play tough d and hit 3s is huge.
Those guys along with Book (and Paul) were great with Ayton or Landale or whoever. Beal is the best replacement we could have gotten for Paul after missing out on Haliburton. Those 4 with Allen, Nurk, Bol, O'Neale if available would have been very nice and probably with great chemistry.
The best use we could've made of those dudes was to showcase them last year after the trade deadline and them shipped them off for another star.
Guess who would've been the best target BW? Guess who's having the best season of his career and was also at basement level of value last offseason? The guy you constantly argue with me on.
Zion. The guy I've been preaching about for years now is finally showing up and he could've been had EASILY after his whole thing.
He'd would've been the perfect guy to put next to Book. Now, you shift from telling me he sucks to telling me the Pels would never trade him. I assume you're gonna say that they would've told us no but you'd be wrong. After the porn star thing and all the other nonsense he was available and probably could've been had for Mikal (the version that ended the season) and a pick swap.
The best use of Mikal and CamJo was to trade them-just not for KD with all of our picks
Pelican's wouldn't make that trade. Plus they already have Herbert Jones (cheaper version of Mikal) and Ingram (much better version of Cam).
But you need role players. We only got KD because he was old. We were not going to get some superstar in their prime.
Slim Charless wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Slim Charless wrote:
The best use we could've made of those dudes was to showcase them last year after the trade deadline and them shipped them off for another star.
Guess who would've been the best target BW? Guess who's having the best season of his career and was also at basement level of value last offseason? The guy you constantly argue with me on.
Zion. The guy I've been preaching about for years now is finally showing up and he could've been had EASILY after his whole thing.
He'd would've been the perfect guy to put next to Book. Now, you shift from telling me he sucks to telling me the Pels would never trade him. I assume you're gonna say that they would've told us no but you'd be wrong. After the porn star thing and all the other nonsense he was available and probably could've been had for Mikal (the version that ended the season) and a pick swap.
The best use of Mikal and CamJo was to trade them-just not for KD with all of our picks
Pelican's wouldn't make that trade. Plus they already have Herbert Jones (cheaper version of Mikal) and Ingram (much better version of Cam).
But you need role players. We only got KD because he was old. We were not going to get some superstar in their prime.
Lol.
I knew you would say that. This time last yr you were saying he sucks and isn't worth the risk. You're wrong. Again.
Do you really not remember all the rumors about him being moved a yr ago? It was literally all over the news and here in RealGM......
Mikal was a star last yr this time and Pels coach has history with him. They would've done the trade.
You don't remember any of this? We had this exact same conversation and you told me he'd be a bad investment and might be cooked. You weren't alone btw. Others said the same
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Well! He sounds convincing here. Obviously, and really no big surprise to anyone either that he's just not a vocal leader nor the type of strong competitive presence that teams' need to have consistent accountability and direction. I love KD as a player, but I truly wonder IF he's most effective as a complimentary 2nd or possibly even a 3rd option superstar closer playing a supplemental role as a silent sniper to a strong/vocal first or 2nd option star?? Unfortunately which Booker is not either!
I wonder if that's why on the warriors, team he was most successful in that type of role deferring to Curry and Klay, but also in having a physical and very vocal somewhat abrasive but gritty personality like Green that'd call out his teammates and hold players accountable. That situation allowed Durant to quietly pick and choose his shots, contribution, etc in a more low pressure role. Unfortunately my overall point here is that with Booker also not being a vocal leader, nor either of KD or Booker having that strong somewhat gritty killer mentality, and really with only Beal showing limited flashes of being that vocal communicative leader ironically as our 3rd option,
We're honestly very very unlikely to realize our initial stated goals of a championship, or even reaching the finals with our current roster and far more likely to spend our duration of our very limited window in this ill-planned super team experiment underachieving significantly in comparison to our desired outcome and seriously need to establish a threshhold deadline (next seasons' trade deadline...... hint hint)! for a contingency plan to pivot to another alternative strategy to sustain our competitive viability and to also hopefully recoup some modicum of assets to utilize towards supplementing or upgrading our roster around Booker and Beal.
But this current roster construction as is, just doesn't have the strong leadership, strong physical and mental fortitudeor even the depth and/or young energizing talent (aside from Bol) to sustain any legitimate long term success towards getting to a championship outcome.
bwgood77 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Well! He sounds convincing here. Obviously, and really no big surprise to anyone either that he's just not a vocal leader nor the type of strong competitive presence that teams' need to have consistent accountability and direction. I love KD as a player, but I truly wonder IF he's most effective as a complimentary 2nd or possibly even a 3rd option superstar closer playing a supplemental role as a silent sniper to a strong/vocal first or 2nd option star?? Unfortunately which Booker is not either!
I wonder if that's why on the warriors, team he was most successful in that type of role deferring to Curry and Klay, but also in having a physical and very vocal somewhat abrasive but gritty personality like Green that'd call out his teammates and hold players accountable. That situation allowed Durant to quietly pick and choose his shots, contribution, etc in a more low pressure role. Unfortunately my overall point here is that with Booker also not being a vocal leader, nor either of KD or Booker having that strong somewhat gritty killer mentality, and really with only Beal showing limited flashes of being that vocal communicative leader ironically as our 3rd option,
We're honestly very very unlikely to realize our initial stated goals of a championship, or even reaching the finals with our current roster and far more likely to spend our duration of our very limited window in this ill-planned super team experiment underachieving significantly in comparison to our desired outcome and seriously need to establish a threshhold deadline (next seasons' trade deadline...... hint hint)! for a contingency plan to pivot to another alternative strategy to sustain our competitive viability and to also hopefully recoup some modicum of assets to utilize towards supplementing or upgrading our roster around Booker and Beal.
But this current roster construction as is, just doesn't have the strong leadership, strong physical and mental fortitudeor even the depth and/or young energizing talent (aside from Bol) to sustain any legitimate long term success towards getting to a championship outcome.
Wow, "hopefully we get a chance to play in the playoffs?" That's not really what you want to hear out of your superstar. I guess he's hedging his bets and accepting reality. I wonder if he is going to ask for another trade.