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Game 74: Phoenix Suns (43-30) @ Oklahoma City Thunder (50-22) | Friday | 5:00PM

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Re: Game 74: Phoenix Suns (43-30) @ Oklahoma City Thunder (50-22) | Friday | 5:00PM 

Post#121 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Mar 31, 2024 3:42 am

bwgood77 wrote:
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Well! He sounds convincing here. Obviously, and really no big surprise to anyone either that he's just not a vocal leader nor the type of strong competitive presence that teams' need to have consistent accountability and direction. I love KD as a player, but I truly wonder IF he's most effective as a complimentary 2nd or possibly even a 3rd option superstar closer playing a supplemental role as a silent sniper to a strong/vocal first or 2nd option star?? Unfortunately which Booker is not either!

I wonder if that's why on the warriors, team he was most successful in that type of role deferring to Curry and Klay, but also in having a physical and very vocal somewhat abrasive but gritty personality like Green that'd call out his teammates and hold players accountable. That situation allowed Durant to quietly pick and choose his shots, contribution, etc in a more low pressure role. Unfortunately my overall point here is that with Booker also not being a vocal leader, nor either of KD or Booker having that strong somewhat gritty killer mentality, and really with only Beal showing limited flashes of being that vocal communicative leader ironically as our 3rd option,

We're honestly very very unlikely to realize our initial stated goals of a championship, or even reaching the finals with our current roster and far more likely to spend our duration of our very limited window in this ill-planned super team experiment underachieving significantly in comparison to our desired outcome and seriously need to establish a threshhold deadline (next seasons' trade deadline...... hint hint)! for a contingency plan to pivot to another alternative strategy to sustain our competitive viability and to also hopefully recoup some modicum of assets to utilize towards supplementing or upgrading our roster around Booker and Beal.

But this current roster construction as is, just doesn't have the strong leadership, strong physical and mental fortitudeor even the depth and/or young energizing talent (aside from Bol) to sustain any legitimate long term success towards getting to a championship outcome. :nod:


Wow, "hopefully we get a chance to play in the playoffs?" That's not really what you want to hear out of your superstar. I guess he's hedging his bets and accepting reality. I wonder if he is going to ask for another trade.


YEP!
Not too inspiring to hear at all, I agree that he's probably accepting reality as well as Booker too even, which might explain the somewhat puzzling lack of urgency/ effort and overall facial expressions and attitudes trickiling dwn from the stars throughout the roster, wheerein they just play like they're ultimately just going through the motions until the end of season, not really giving a "sh** " and just figure they'll try again with better anticipated outcome next season?? It does just add up to me, as to why you don't see the profound urgency, or even the professionalism to put in a full games' effort if they already have a consensus mentality that this isn't their year, and they're just pacing themselves to really get to the offseason for another shot at hopefully a better shot. It just really sucks if that is the underlying truth considering what they're getting paid and what this franchise invested cumulatively for this to happen.

Regardless of outcome, the effort and urgency should always be there to represent their team, their organization, and their city! otherwise, they can't take their millions and their apathy elsewhere. :D
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Re: Game 74: Phoenix Suns (43-30) @ Oklahoma City Thunder (50-22) | Friday | 5:00PM 

Post#122 » by Puff » Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:36 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Puff wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
So looks like Book/Beal is our best combo. 75% winning %. Oh how they'd be with Bridges/Cam/Allen/Nurkic/O'Neale.


You are one of the ones that always try to justify the trade for Beal. It will go down as one of the dumbest decisions in the history of this franchise. We now have three guys that are and have been great scorers with no business of trying to be the lead facilitator. That is what they do along with Nurkic. I also am not convinced that the Ayton trade will turn out well when all is said and done. However, we did get good value.

This mess started with the trade for KD which I did not agree with at all. It could be and probably will be deemed worse than the Beal trade.

So, when we go back to prior to KD. All we wanted was a legit replacement for CP3 along with a PF that could be used as a small ball five and a great defensive force alongside Ayton.

I am sure management think that the additions of KD and Beal solves those problems. They are wrong and it is going to get worse going forward.

Thanks Matt

I am jealous of that team in OKC. They are really good, and I wish them great success. Unless by some miracle we get a chance to play them in the playoffs.


The trade for Beal was great because we gave up crap and got a star type player. The reason he is marginalized, yes, is because we have 3 guys...but are covered a bit for injuries to any 3 of them...which will happen.

Paul had negative value as did Shamet. They either would have gotten us nothing or a crap contract like Simmons or Poole. Beal you could say is a negative contract...it is said to be one of worst in league here, but if so, that would mean Booker's soon will be too.

Anyway, the Beal trade was great value..MUCH better value than the KD trade. No one would have ever dreamed we could have gotten Beal for that version of CP3 and Shamet a year ago. I know you hate him along with Stix, and have your BBB nickname or whatever, but he's a very good player, and has the ability to step up and be great if we need a 3rd guy to take over. Yes, he is overpaid for what he provides right now, but we were over the cap anyway so couldn't use what we pay him on anyone else.

But I more with we would have done that trade and not the KD one. Beal would look a lot better and Bridges would be great as a 3rd option and give us better defense. We also could reload with our picks every season as the young teams get better...if we got a great scouting department. Booker/Beal/Bridges would have been our killer BBB.


You continue to peddle that this trade for Beal was a great trade. It put this franchise in deep trouble for as long as he is here.

It forced Book into PG duties which is absolutely stupid. Book was great alongside CP3. Now they are trying to sell us Beal as the PG or is it KD as our PG.

We would be better off with IT as our PG with his primary function to get the ball to either KD or
Book in their sweet spots. I am kidding about IT, but I am sure we could have got a back up to CP3 for this season and his contract would have expired this off season. We also gave up a lot of draft capital as I remember in the trade for BBB.

Whichever coach has designed this ISO offense all game long has had to do this because to the trade for Beal. The trade was stupid.

We are also stuck with all his injury issues for the next 3 years.

The Beal trade was horrible and it is going to hurt this franchise going forward.

Maybe it is the coaching. It is just an awful team to watch on most nights.

Is there a way to bet that the Suns will not make the playoffs? If I bet that they won't, that is the only way that they will make the playoffs this year.

Just think, Houston, Memphis, Utah and San Antonio all are going to be better next year. Where does that put the Suns? This may be our last chance to make the playoff for the foreseeable future.
      "Fire Jones and Vogel. Hire a GM that can trade one or more of the Big Three that will allow us to be watchable again" :crazy:
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Re: Game 74: Phoenix Suns (43-30) @ Oklahoma City Thunder (50-22) | Friday | 5:00PM 

Post#123 » by Calvin Klein » Sun Mar 31, 2024 11:27 pm

Puff wrote:
You continue to peddle that this trade for Beal was a great trade. It put this franchise in deep trouble for as long as he is here.

It forced Book into PG duties which is absolutely stupid. Book was great alongside CP3. Now they are trying to sell us Beal as the PG or is it KD as our PG.

We would be better off with IT as our PG with his primary function to get the ball to either KD or
Book in their sweet spots. I am kidding about IT, but I am sure we could have got a back up to CP3 for this season and his contract would have expired this off season. We also gave up a lot of draft capital as I remember in the trade for BBB.

Whichever coach has designed this ISO offense all game long has had to do this because to the trade for Beal. The trade was stupid.

We are also stuck with all his injury issues for the next 3 years.

The Beal trade was horrible and it is going to hurt this franchise going forward.

Maybe it is the coaching. It is just an awful team to watch on most nights.

Is there a way to bet that the Suns will not make the playoffs? If I bet that they won't, that is the only way that they will make the playoffs this year.

Just think, Houston, Memphis, Utah and San Antonio all are going to be better next year. Where does that put the Suns? This may be our last chance to make the playoff for the foreseeable future.


Agree about the Beal trade. It was the move that effectively forced booker to play out of position which is one of the stupidest things about this team. You have someone who is considered maybe the best 2 guard in the league at his peak and you make him play PG.

IT ALSO FORCED Beal himself into a role he is not used to. Let’s not even get into his contract and health situation.

And it’s also making Durant a ball handler which he sucks at.

Your 3 top players, injury prone and all of them playing out of their comfort zone. And you espect that to work somehow? :crazy: :lol:


I’d much rather have current CP than this. The team would have a leader and he can still be a great game manager for about 20-25 minutes. Even if he doesn’t play, I’ll take him as a locker room leader. And he is an expiring.
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Re: Game 74: Phoenix Suns (43-30) @ Oklahoma City Thunder (50-22) | Friday | 5:00PM 

Post#124 » by Puff » Mon Apr 1, 2024 12:53 am

Calvin Klein wrote:
Puff wrote:
You continue to peddle that this trade for Beal was a great trade. It put this franchise in deep trouble for as long as he is here.

It forced Book into PG duties which is absolutely stupid. Book was great alongside CP3. Now they are trying to sell us Beal as the PG or is it KD as our PG.

We would be better off with IT as our PG with his primary function to get the ball to either KD or
Book in their sweet spots. I am kidding about IT, but I am sure we could have got a back up to CP3 for this season and his contract would have expired this off season. We also gave up a lot of draft capital as I remember in the trade for BBB.

Whichever coach has designed this ISO offense all game long has had to do this because to the trade for Beal. The trade was stupid.

We are also stuck with all his injury issues for the next 3 years.

The Beal trade was horrible and it is going to hurt this franchise going forward.

Maybe it is the coaching. It is just an awful team to watch on most nights.

Is there a way to bet that the Suns will not make the playoffs? If I bet that they won't, that is the only way that they will make the playoffs this year.

Just think, Houston, Memphis, Utah and San Antonio all are going to be better next year. Where does that put the Suns? This may be our last chance to make the playoff for the foreseeable future.


Agree about the Beal trade. It was the move that effectively forced booker to play out of position which is one of the stupidest things about this team. You have someone who is considered maybe the best 2 guard in the league at his peak and you make him play PG.

IT ALSO FORCED Beal himself into a role he is not used to. Let’s not even get into his contract and health situation.

And it’s also making Durant a ball handler which he sucks at.

Your 3 top players, injury prone and all of them playing out of their comfort zone. And you espect that to work somehow? :crazy: :lol:


I’d much rather have current CP than this. The team would have a leader and he can still be a great game manager for about 20-25 minutes. Even if he doesn’t play, I’ll take him as a locker room leader. And he is an expiring.


Right on the money.

These guys trying to jam Beal down our throats are the same ones that tried to jam Ayton down our throats at every chance possible.
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Re: Game 74: Phoenix Suns (43-30) @ Oklahoma City Thunder (50-22) | Friday | 5:00PM 

Post#125 » by bwgood77 » Mon Apr 1, 2024 1:03 am

Puff wrote:
Calvin Klein wrote:
Puff wrote:
You continue to peddle that this trade for Beal was a great trade. It put this franchise in deep trouble for as long as he is here.

It forced Book into PG duties which is absolutely stupid. Book was great alongside CP3. Now they are trying to sell us Beal as the PG or is it KD as our PG.

We would be better off with IT as our PG with his primary function to get the ball to either KD or
Book in their sweet spots. I am kidding about IT, but I am sure we could have got a back up to CP3 for this season and his contract would have expired this off season. We also gave up a lot of draft capital as I remember in the trade for BBB.

Whichever coach has designed this ISO offense all game long has had to do this because to the trade for Beal. The trade was stupid.

We are also stuck with all his injury issues for the next 3 years.

The Beal trade was horrible and it is going to hurt this franchise going forward.

Maybe it is the coaching. It is just an awful team to watch on most nights.

Is there a way to bet that the Suns will not make the playoffs? If I bet that they won't, that is the only way that they will make the playoffs this year.

Just think, Houston, Memphis, Utah and San Antonio all are going to be better next year. Where does that put the Suns? This may be our last chance to make the playoff for the foreseeable future.


Agree about the Beal trade. It was the move that effectively forced booker to play out of position which is one of the stupidest things about this team. You have someone who is considered maybe the best 2 guard in the league at his peak and you make him play PG.

IT ALSO FORCED Beal himself into a role he is not used to. Let’s not even get into his contract and health situation.

And it’s also making Durant a ball handler which he sucks at.

Your 3 top players, injury prone and all of them playing out of their comfort zone. And you espect that to work somehow? :crazy: :lol:


I’d much rather have current CP than this. The team would have a leader and he can still be a great game manager for about 20-25 minutes. Even if he doesn’t play, I’ll take him as a locker room leader. And he is an expiring.


Right on the money.

These guys trying to jam Beal down our throats are the same ones that tried to jam Ayton down our throats at every chance possible.


No, not too many were high on Ayton. We had a poll on the Beal trade well into the season after Stix was complaining asking if they would have done the Beal trade and the results were like 25-4 or something.

Paul sucks. He is playing with the same players that won the title 2 years ago and they are in 10th. I loved Chris Paul but he sucked. He cost us the Mavs series, and he really declined last year when he wasn't injured. He couldn't shoot any more so players don't guard him. If we had him Book/KD would face more double teams. I agree his intangibles were one of the best things but we needed to get something for his corpse or we lose the salary slot..and he looked pretty untradable, just like Shamet.

Paul, when he was good for us had a master mid range game and shot 56% from 2. Last year he shot 48% from 2 and this year 49%. He's never been a great 3pt shooter.

If we did have him, we certainly wouldn't be better and we'd be far worse in the long term with no cap space even though he did expire.
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Re: Game 74: Phoenix Suns (43-30) @ Oklahoma City Thunder (50-22) | Friday | 5:00PM 

Post#126 » by bwgood77 » Mon Apr 1, 2024 1:06 am

Also Booker is having a better season than last year, which had been his best season. His eFG% is his highest ever...he is at 36.2% from 3, higher than his 35% last year, and from 2 he is shooting 55% again, which is better than any season prior to last year. He is at 27ppg, his highest ever other than last year where he had 27.8, and his assists are better than ever while is turnovers HAVE DECREASED.

By all accounts, he is better than last year on offense. I think he may be worse on defense.
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Re: Game 74: Phoenix Suns (43-30) @ Oklahoma City Thunder (50-22) | Friday | 5:00PM 

Post#127 » by Calvin Klein » Mon Apr 1, 2024 2:45 am

bwgood77 wrote:Also Booker is having a better season than last year, which had been his best season. His eFG% is his highest ever...he is at 36.2% from 3, higher than his 35% last year, and from 2 he is shooting 55% again, which is better than any season prior to last year. He is at 27ppg, his highest ever other than last year where he had 27.8, and his assists are better than ever while is turnovers HAVE DECREASED.

By all accounts, he is better than last year on offense. I think he may be worse on defense.



I would say bookers best season was when he made first team all nba.


His stats might be better but he was basically a top 5 player that year and I don’t think you can say he is even top ten this year.
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Re: Game 74: Phoenix Suns (43-30) @ Oklahoma City Thunder (50-22) | Friday | 5:00PM 

Post#128 » by sashaturiaf » Mon Apr 1, 2024 3:36 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
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Well! He sounds convincing here. Obviously, and really no big surprise to anyone either that he's just not a vocal leader nor the type of strong competitive presence that teams' need to have consistent accountability and direction. I love KD as a player, but I truly wonder IF he's most effective as a complimentary 2nd or possibly even a 3rd option superstar closer playing a supplemental role as a silent sniper to a strong/vocal first or 2nd option star?? Unfortunately which Booker is not either!

I wonder if that's why on the warriors, team he was most successful in that type of role deferring to Curry and Klay, but also in having a physical and very vocal somewhat abrasive but gritty personality like Green that'd call out his teammates and hold players accountable. That situation allowed Durant to quietly pick and choose his shots, contribution, etc in a more low pressure role. Unfortunately my overall point here is that with Booker also not being a vocal leader, nor either of KD or Booker having that strong somewhat gritty killer mentality, and really with only Beal showing limited flashes of being that vocal communicative leader ironically as our 3rd option,

We're honestly very very unlikely to realize our initial stated goals of a championship, or even reaching the finals with our current roster and far more likely to spend our duration of our very limited window in this ill-planned super team experiment underachieving significantly in comparison to our desired outcome and seriously need to establish a threshhold deadline (next seasons' trade deadline...... hint hint)! for a contingency plan to pivot to another alternative strategy to sustain our competitive viability and to also hopefully recoup some modicum of assets to utilize towards supplementing or upgrading our roster around Booker and Beal.

But this current roster construction as is, just doesn't have the strong leadership, strong physical and mental fortitudeor even the depth and/or young energizing talent (aside from Bol) to sustain any legitimate long term success towards getting to a championship outcome. :nod:


Wow, "hopefully we get a chance to play in the playoffs?" That's not really what you want to hear out of your superstar. I guess he's hedging his bets and accepting reality. I wonder if he is going to ask for another trade.


YEP!
Not too inspiring to hear at all, I agree that he's probably accepting reality as well as Booker too even, which might explain the somewhat puzzling lack of urgency/ effort and overall facial expressions and attitudes trickiling dwn from the stars throughout the roster, wheerein they just play like they're ultimately just going through the motions until the end of season, not really giving a "sh** " and just figure they'll try again with better anticipated outcome next season?? It does just add up to me, as to why you don't see the profound urgency, or even the professionalism to put in a full games' effort if they already have a consensus mentality that this isn't their year, and they're just pacing themselves to really get to the offseason for another shot at hopefully a better shot. It just really sucks if that is the underlying truth considering what they're getting paid and what this franchise invested cumulatively for this to happen.

Regardless of outcome, the effort and urgency should always be there to represent their team, their organization, and their city! otherwise, they can't take their millions and their apathy elsewhere. :D


KD is a guy who really would benefit from having a strong coach and structure in place since he largely goes with the flow. If he was on the Spurs or Heat from the start I think he'd have 4 rings or more.


Unfortunately he's largely had the likes of Scott Brooks and Steve Nash instead, when he was on the Warriors when everyone knew their roles and place he was undisputedly the best player in the world.
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Re: Game 74: Phoenix Suns (43-30) @ Oklahoma City Thunder (50-22) | Friday | 5:00PM 

Post#129 » by sashaturiaf » Mon Apr 1, 2024 3:41 am

Calvin Klein wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:Also Booker is having a better season than last year, which had been his best season. His eFG% is his highest ever...he is at 36.2% from 3, higher than his 35% last year, and from 2 he is shooting 55% again, which is better than any season prior to last year. He is at 27ppg, his highest ever other than last year where he had 27.8, and his assists are better than ever while is turnovers HAVE DECREASED.

By all accounts, he is better than last year on offense. I think he may be worse on defense.



I would say bookers best season was when he made first team all nba.


His stats might be better but he was basically a top 5 player that year and I don’t think you can say he is even top ten this year.


Jokic
Embiid
KD
Giannis
Luka
SGA


Those are the guys I'd say is definitely having a better season than Book

He's in the next group with AD, Lebron, Edwards, Tatum, Bam, mitchell, Kawhi and the like. So you can argue either way whether he's top 10, but given our record I wouldn't say he's had a top 10 season
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Re: Game 74: Phoenix Suns (43-30) @ Oklahoma City Thunder (50-22) | Friday | 5:00PM 

Post#130 » by Puff » Mon Apr 1, 2024 10:26 am

Sorry, I forgot. BW is not wrong on anything.

Non tradeable contact for 46MIl headed to 57Mil is just lovely for a player we did not need.

Hopefully it is just coaching not the players. That is a very movable piece to the puzzle. It is a real challenge to enjoy watching this team play.

Book may have great numbers but overall, his play has not been enjoyable to watch on most nights. Same goes for KD.

If Vogel was such a great "Championship Coach" why did the Lakers fire him?

If Beal was so great why did the Washington trade him for Jordan Poole?
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Re: Game 74: Phoenix Suns (43-30) @ Oklahoma City Thunder (50-22) | Friday | 5:00PM 

Post#131 » by darealjuice » Mon Apr 1, 2024 2:23 pm

Part of the problem is that have too many cooks in the kitchen. One of Beal, Booker, and KD has to change the way that they play when they share the court because there's only one ball and all 3 ball-dominant volume scorers, and none of them are at their best pretending to be a point guard.

Championship teams have to be well-built. This roster is full of holes, many that we've made through poor roster construction. We have too many guys that dribble the air out of the ball with no point guard to keep the offense running well. We're too small playing 3 guard lineups almost all game, and we're not athletic at all. We have one 3 and D player that has to come off the bench because we can't spend $50M on Beal being a sixth man. Nurkic's usefulness is matchup dependent, and his backup sucks. Book's defense has regressed, probably in part due to having to be more ball dominant on offense with no point guard on the roster. Too many guys doing the same thing when we don't have a point guard or a rim protector on the roster (kind of ironic lol). If their dream was that Booker would suddenly become CP3 for us, it should be dead already.
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Re: Game 74: Phoenix Suns (43-30) @ Oklahoma City Thunder (50-22) | Friday | 5:00PM 

Post#132 » by bwgood77 » Mon Apr 1, 2024 5:56 pm

Calvin Klein wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:Also Booker is having a better season than last year, which had been his best season. His eFG% is his highest ever...he is at 36.2% from 3, higher than his 35% last year, and from 2 he is shooting 55% again, which is better than any season prior to last year. He is at 27ppg, his highest ever other than last year where he had 27.8, and his assists are better than ever while is turnovers HAVE DECREASED.

By all accounts, he is better than last year on offense. I think he may be worse on defense.



I would say bookers best season was when he made first team all nba.


His stats might be better but he was basically a top 5 player that year and I don’t think you can say he is even top ten this year.


I don't know if I'd say he was top 5 that year, but he was high on voting lists/nba because we won 64 games. Last year he was injured too much to get votes with only 53 games.

Paul was actually ahead of him in those races when he was 1st team until he got injured. Also a guy like Embiid, just because he was second team doesn't mean he was worse. Same with KD. Then Kawhi Leonard was out all year and Lillard who was usually 1st or 2nd team only played 29 games.

The competition has gotten tougher at guard, too, especially the top the last two years with SGA and now Edwards. His #s are better though on offense right now than 2 years ago, which means if you feel he is worse playing out of position that's wrong. It's just our team is a lot worse and he is not the best player on it....in part because competition is tougher but also because of our depth.

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