The Official "Other" MMA Thread

[REDDzone]

Lots of good MMA doesn't get enough discussion on this board IMO. Bellator has been pretty good, but not sure it garners enough interest for a new thread every single week. Plus other various MMA.

Another inverted triangle choke in Bellator! Sick.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPQF0mP5tOs&feature=player_embedded#at=23[/youtube]

Also a pretty cool gif I saw on another forum from Baroni's fight yesterday.

[Bernman]

You know I appreciate Bellator. I've hyped up how entertaining this season has been already on here, and how I think they have some fighters who are among the best in the world in their respective divisions (Alvarez, Lombard, Warren, etc.) and others who could reach that level eventually. So there are plenty of reasons to watch. It's just too bad it's on MTV2 so many don't have availability. It's hard enough being an upstart organization in a sport that's officially trying to advance out of the niche realm, but being on a channel that only reaches 80 million homes complicates matters. Thankfully, that doesn't affect me.

I was going to start a Bellator specific thread because next week should be awesome, and for die hard MMA fans, there is no excuse not to find it either on television or the net it due to no scheduling conflicts with UFC or Strikeforce, unlike has been the case recently.

Eddie Alvarez vs. Pat Curran should be the s**t. That sucked it was initially delayed. Alvarez' TDD should keep Curran from wrestle-f**king him. That means it should stay on the feet, and you know what Alvarez does to guys with his boxing. Regardless, Alvarez deserves some credit if he wins, even though this is kind of a good match-up for him. Curran has a pretty good record with wins over Huerta, Imada, and Straus.

The other exciting match-up is Good vs. Hawn. Hawn's kickboxing is solid, but I don't know he wants anything to do with the athleticism, power, and explosiveness of Good on the feet. So he might try to use his world class Judo to get him down. Don't know if it works though because Good is super strong and has good TDD. Askren had his way with him grappling-wise, but he's relentless. This one should be an epic struggle, and whoever comes on top is looking pristine as far as their record and rep is concerned.

Maybe an even better card the following week with Askren-Nick Thompson, Chandler-Woodard, and Freire-Imada. We've got the rooting interest there with Askren of course, as boring as he's sometimes been. Then I'm very high on all Patricky Pitbull, Lloyd Woodard, and Michael Chandler. Askren probably grapple-f**ks another in Thompson. I know he has a wrestling background, but he's too lanky, and Askren too good in that area. Thompson has lost to a bunch of wrestlers in the past. Then I think Pitbull's jiu-jitsu neutralizes Imada's and he beats him with hands. And Woodard has the strong TDD to keep it on the feet and then pepper Chandler from the outside...but he does have a puncher's chance (and maybe l&p'ers if he gets a couple of takedowns early in rounds and keeps it there).

Last night I thought Hale looked especially promising, even aside from the sick inverted triangle (which I identified immediately, so there was suspense there, unlike Zombie's twister, which I had seen attempted before, but didn't know what the hell he was doing at first). Hale has a huge reach, is ultra mobile for his size, and is technical in his boxing, and jiu-jitsu. When thinking about what style it would take to overcome Bones Jones, those were just about all the attributes that I conjured. He'd have the reach to answer punches and also step around to work angles and close the gap, but he wouldn't have to rush in like Bader or Shogun, making him susceptible to the takedown. Then if he does get taken down anyways, he has the guard to threaten and get up, or even submit from crazy positions. Hale is one to watch for the future for sure.

[Cammo101]

I'm a big fan of what Bellator does and their format. I think this season the talent level has fallen off though. The Welterweight tourney is the only one with any name value whatsoever.

Pat Curran is going to get smashed by Alvarez. Curran got beat up by Imada before getting a gift decision in the finals last year. As much as I like Bellator, I sure do wish Alvarez would ditch them for the UFC so we can see him fight guys on his level. He is wasting away as a huge fish in a tiny pond.

[Nemesis21]

That inverted triangle choke was nasty.

[Bernman]

I'm a big fan of what Bellator does and their format. I think this season the talent level has fallen off though. The Welterweight tourney is the only one with any name value whatsoever

A lot of good name value did for guys like Huerta and McCullough.

I'd rather have guys who just haven't had a chance to make their names yet, than ones who did, but it was established they weren't good enough to stay on the highest level. That would really make this like a battle of pseudo career minor leaguers, with 2-3 guys they splurged on to sell big events. Instead it's a proving ground for prospects. And if you've watched, guys like: Cupcake Woodard, Michael Chandler, Patricky Freire, Daniel Straus, Richard Hale, Rick Hawn, Lyman Good, and Wilson Reis; have made early indications that they are worthy of making the next step up in competition.

[REDDzone]

A lot of good name value did for guys like Huerta and McCullough.

This is a GREAT point.

I've heard so many people (on other forums mostly) talk about the lack of name value in bellator, but then the same people talk about how they hated SF for not building their own stars but instead using names from other orgs.

I'd rather have guys who just haven't had a chance to make their names yet, than ones who did, but it was established they weren't good enough to stay on the highest level.

[Cammo101]

McCollough is a stiff and has been for a while. I'm not saying Bellator needs to sign a ton of UFC cast offs, but having guys like Warren, Alvarez, and Lombard adds to the excitement. They need a combination of names and young talent. This year with the exception of the WW tourney, it seems to be all no names. The lack of big names makes their cards look more like a regional card.

I love Bellator and think they are on the right track. But, you have to have some names in each tourney. Daniel Gracie vs. Carpenter is not a main event fight on a nationally televised card.

[skflives]

^^^ If you're looking to have 10 million people watching your show then you're right. But if you're basically a prospect driven show a matchup featuring one of the Gracie's is certainly a valid main event fight. As a smaller promotion they can't be held to the same standard as the UFC.

[Bernman]

McCollough is a stiff and has been for a while. I'm not saying Bellator needs to sign a ton of UFC cast offs, but having guys like Warren, Alvarez, and Lombard adds to the excitement.

Those guys are still around. Which fighters like that did they drop from last season to this one to lower the talent level?

I don't see any really. Plus, they added Hieron, and the prospects look better from watching most events in past season, and all in this one.

These guys should become names to you if you watch and become more informed about their abilities. Then it will be like Woodard beat Patricio Pitbull....that's a good win to build his status. Then if Alvarez beat Woodard subsequently after Curran, that's another good win for Alvarez to build his case for #1 LW in the world status. That's how they can build their names. It's not going to come from beating legit UFC fighters, or guys who've beaten legit UFC fighters in the interim. Naturally that's the case because they're not in the UFC, yet.

[REDDzone]

Is there a time when these bellator events get replayed at all?

I missed the last one because of the UFC event and want to watch it.

[skflives]

Well actually they gave it at 7 so it wouldn't interfere with the UFC shows viewers.

[Bernman]

Well actually they gave it at 7 so it wouldn't interfere with the UFC shows viewers

Problem is, 7/6 central was the same time that the Facebook prelims began. Knowing how Dana likes to play defense against other organizations with counter-programming, as part of his attempt to create a monopoly, I wouldn't be surprised if creating a conflict was the impetus behind the streaming strategy in the first place.

Coker and Strikeforce purportedly was never an enemy to Dana, but maybe that was because they were never seen as a major threat. They tried to build largely with fighters who were formerly in the UFC, thus no matter how much they built, the perception, fair or not, would persist that they were the inferior league.

I don't know if Dana has ever expressed any ill will towards Rebney and Bellator, but they could be a perceived threat to him because they're doing their own scouting and building with primarily names they will establish themselves. If the league keeps on building due to the diamonds in the rough that they out-work the UFC to unearth, at a point it could be purely subjective as to whose fighters are actually better. The UFC name is always going to be tough to beat amongst the casual fan because of their history, marketing over the year from Friends, TUF, etc., and Dana's relentless Rush Limbaughness; but real fight fans will want to tune in, in large numbers, in order to decide with their own eyes who's best. And then Zuffa no longer is the dominant force in the sport. It's wishful thinking, and Zuffa is doing their best to oppress them before they can rise, but Bellator is going about things the right way.

Is there a time when these bellator events get replayed at all?

I can't find any replay listings on their schedule. I thought I heard mention of them uploading individual fights to the web. If not you just have to start DVR'ing them. I didn't watch it live.

[REDDzone]

I don't know if Dana has ever expressed any ill will towards Rebney and Bellator

They are currently in a huge law suit/counter suit.

I guess UFC signed Brookins to TUF despite him being under contract with bellator, and bellator also ended up somehow having confidential documents from the ufc.

Blah.

[Bernman]

So Dana's got spite as a motivator too. And you don't want to get on BBF's bad side. Surely it's a sabotage, bro.

Just read about the lawsuit from Bellator's perspective, and they certainly have a case against Zuffa if Brookins didn't fulfill his contract. Not that Zuffa did anything wrong per se, but Bellator is entitled to the revenue generated from the guy while he was under their umbrella. And then they'd have punitive damages against Brookins, if they wish to pursue that, but given the risk fighters take to make money, and they Bellator have less earning potential in the interim and accomplishments to sell a high majority of prospective fighters on, I don't know if that would be the best for business or their conscience. Plus, Brookins probably isn't wealthy anyways.

Don't know what kind of case the UFC has unless they are more specific about the "confidential info".

[REDDzone]

I forgot the specifics as well.

Its kind of weird that 2 of the last 3 TUF winners were under contract with other orgs at the time.

[Mike Hunt]

I have to say, I'm not an MMA nut but The Score replays Bellator stuff on Sunday afternoons and since there rarely is anything else on, I often find myself watching it. It is more consistently entertaining than most UFC stuff.

The only thing I wish they did is not have the president of Bellator coming on and pimping his guys as "one of the best ____weights in the world". He says it all the time and clearly feels like it's as a result of an inferiority complex. He has a good product with decent fighters putting on great fights. That's all that matters. I think most fight fans understand what Bellator is and appreciate it.

[Bernman]

RZ, my advice, take it or leave it, would be to bet on Patricky Pitbull at -115 against Imada (who has the same odds). I don't see any area where Imada has an advantage here. Pitbull is the stronger guy who can take Imada down and top control him, while also avoiding submissions with his BJJ background. If he ends up on his back, he can submit opponents, and Imada has been submitted a number of times before. On the feet, Pitbull has the more precise striking and better power. The only way possible I can envision Imada winning is by fluky knockout. And that's hard to see with Imada not KO'ing any quality opponents and not for 10 fights, in addition to Freire displaying a strong chin against Razor Rob. This is a mismatch after breaking it down.

[Shaazzam]

Just watched Titan FC 17.

The Alonzo Martinez vs. Aaron Derrow was amazing, what a scrap. I thought it might have ended up a majority draw, but alas, not enough 10-8s.

And I love watching guys get kicked in the face. It's a failing I have.

[Posey H8er]

Bellator 39 tonight! Eddie Alvarez is facing Pat Curran for the lightweight belt.

[REDDzone]

RZ, my advice, take it or leave it, would be to bet on Patricky Pitbull at -115 against Imada (who has the same odds). I don't see any area where Imada has an advantage here. Pitbull is the stronger guy who can take Imada down and top control him, while also avoiding submissions with his BJJ background. If he ends up on his back, he can submit opponents, and Imada has been submitted a number of times before. On the feet, Pitbull has the more precise striking and better power. The only way possible I can envision Imada winning is by fluky knockout. And that's hard to see with Imada not KO'ing any quality opponents and not for 10 fights, in addition to Freire displaying a strong chin against Razor Rob. This is a mismatch after breaking it down.

Nice. Thanks for the advice. I probably won't make any bets because I've only seen dude fight once (his last fight), but he definitely seems like one to watch.

Excited for tonight.