Moderator: lilfishi22
SDM wrote:Didn't realize International Fight Week was a thing... it's great that UFC is partnering with amateur competitions (or at least not suing them for encroaching on their territory/instituting a ban on competing events ala WWE).
Stephen Jackson wrote:Make sure u want these problems. Goggle me slime. Im in da streets.
REDDzone wrote:SDM wrote:Didn't realize International Fight Week was a thing... it's great that UFC is partnering with amateur competitions (or at least not suing them for encroaching on their territory/instituting a ban on competing events ala WWE).
I'm not sure what international fight week is, but I think that they have had grappler's question competitions at/during ufc fan expos for years and years.
Stephen Jackson wrote:Make sure u want these problems. Goggle me slime. Im in da streets.
“I started BJJ at the Torrance Gracie Academy in 2006. Before going in, I consumed everything Gracie Academy for an entire year. The message they instilled in me was that you were drinking straight from the source of BJJ: Helio Gracie. He was the founder of the art and modified all of the techniques of Meada to a now perfect unchanging art form. Other gyms only taught watered down versions of the art. The actual metaphor of “pure water” was being used always in their examples.
Not only was this message repeated as canon, I heard him repeat this message several times over in the introduction classes held on Saturdays for perspective members which I begged to be apart of. I did not stay long at the academy due to life circumstances – not by choice. As a new white belt, my experience there was positive. After I left, I even started the 2nd Gracie Garage.
Life led me to Ralph Gracie Black Belt Brad Jackson who took me under his wing. He had a background at Gracie Academy, Rickson Gracie, Rodrigo Gracie and Ralph Gracie. Very old school style with a flair for studying the new game too. He would incessantly tell me how brainwashed I was – pointing out the various different approaches and mindsets that Helio, Carlson and others had. I would only do a technique a certain way because that was the way that Helio did it – or that I didnt feel it was “street certified” in my wonderful white belt silent judgement.
I remember how horrified I was when I saw a trap and roll escape shown with a different grip on the arm. If I can describe the feeling I had, it would be imagining somebody suggesting a different interpretation of a religion that you have strong convictions about at a dinner party where you are supposed to be polite. Embarrassing as that is now, thats the type of mentality they instilled. This must be the watered down Jiu-Jitsu they were talking about! Everything needed to be spoon fed. No creativity. No individuality. No variation. No independent thought. Rener and Ryron have become more progressive since that time, but they were repeating the words that had probably been repeated to them since birth at that point.
It was only slowly as my experience in Jiu-Jitsu progressed where my perspective changed and my memory soured.
As a 2 stripe white belt when I left, I was fully convinced that I could defeat a division 1 wrestler in a street fight. Why? I was naive, but it also was hammered into me from day 1 of my 2x daily sessions. Wrestling was a game. Not a fight. My Jiu-Jitsu was a fight. My questions about strong wrestlers posing a threat were always reassured with borderline delusional confidence and references to what Royce did in UFC 1 up on the small TV by the juice bar.
Reality came crashing down when I trained with my first division 1 wrestler. It was after a wrestling practice at Cal State Fullerton. It was the first time I had ever had somebody use a leg drag to pass my guard. He was so freaking fast, coordinated and precise….he killed me. It wasnt close. How on earth could somebody lead me down the path that would make me believe I could beat somebody like this? He had so little submission grappling knowledge too! On a interesting note, the wrestler was TJ Dillashaw.
It wasn’t just a random future UFC champion that started to put me in my place. Here I am in Brad Jackson’s garage pontificating about how I was only learning street certified techniques, and Sean Roberts is strangling me helplessly from mount – and all the other white belts too. It didnt matter what I knew. He was going to do whatever he wanted to me at any moment of choice.
It wasnt just this type of on the mat exchange. It was what I was observing from the outside as well.
They would gradually shift their message from 2005 as the facts suited at that particular moment. Something I found out from old forums that they had been doing for quite a while. For example, they used to profess that their Jiu-Jitsu was the best for both Jiu-Jitsu tournaments and self defense, but they would challenge other academies to tournaments to show their pure Jiu-Jitsu and lose – badly. They would shift the message as a result that their Jiu-Jitsu wasnt for tournaments, it was for fighting only.
I remember when they announced UFC 60 how the message was that Royce was going to show the world how Gracie Jiu-Jitsu was still the only necessary martial art for MMA competition. Shortly after Matt Hughes used his superior wrestling and submission grappling to remove any shadow of a doubt, the Gracie Academy declared a moral victory because Matt had used Jiu-Jitsu against him. They pivoted again saying their techniques are best used against untrained attackers and that skilled opponents have different reactions. After that you can learn the sport of BJJ. After all, they HAD been really emphasizing the importance of building reactions against untrained attackers. Eliminate skilled attackers all together was the answer.
More things started to make my Gracie Jiu-Jitsu loving self wake up: Pink belts, ultra fast scheduled promotions, online belt testing, certified training centers, no rolling for students until blue belt. I watched Rener almost become a caricature of himself. He was a tamer version of his fathers salesman qualities – more likable but just as thirsty in his zeal for a buck.
Intermittently I would go back and roll. Two times at blue belt. Once at purple. I was shocked – SHOCKED – at the extremely low level of competence on the mat by many of the students. Don’t get me wrong. There are some tough guys that train there, but not a single one I rolled with in my visits. Ryron and Rener would always take the time to roll with me…and they are as legit as it gets…. BUT… The average level was so low that it was difficult to even get in a workout. It was such a shame, because they were indeed great teachers with good techniques and information. What was wrong I asked myself? Recent rationalizations from videos about their promotion justifications are so strange albeit well articulated. I can see new people buying the fact that worse quality is better. Its impressive if you think about it really. An admirable goal of bringing as many people into BJJ as possible cleverly cloaked in their rather extreme viewpoint and financial motivation.
When Renzo gave the interview in this video, I listened to Rener’s response in his own interview. I listened to him tell flat out lies based in half truths. I knew this, because I had heard him say the exact same thing he said to Renzo’s student – even though Renzo only partially articulated what he exactly said. Rener said it both to myself and to trial class students with no consequence because nobody of note was listening. Only perspective students. This was the moment that I realized how much of a self serving person he was when it came to ideology of his specific brand of Jiu-Jitsu.
As a black belt, reflecting back I now mostly resent my time there. It killed off my creative thinking. It made me delusional. It made me closed minded. I do feel it made me very detail oriented and formed the foundation of a more analytical mind but overall, my progress was greatly hindered over taking classes virtually anywhere else. I cant stress how much I needlessly struggled now that I teach new white belts daily and how possible it is to be quite decent at white belt with no crazy tricks. There a really good places for learning self defense Jiu-Jitsu – some of which are offshoots of the Gracie Academy who apply the lessons of the past 23 years – but this isnt one. I suspect a few students of the school will read this. Please, if you are white-purple visit another school just once and try not to rationalize the experience away. Any school. If you are in Torrance, go to Cobrinhas. Its pretty darn “sport” there. Try Kings MMA if you are more interested in fighting.
I probably would be fine with keeping my opinions to myself, but I had one of their money grabs – A Level III Certified Training Center (TM) – open up next to my academy. I take a deep breath as they boast that myself, Checkmat HQ and CSW teach the great unwashed Jiu-Jitsu. Checkmat is home of the finest black belts in the world. CSW is a top MMA team consistently producing UFC fighters. At my academy you roll with judo black belts, division 1 wrestlers and dedicated practitioners who are both skilled, knowledgeable and friendly students of the game. You might even find Checkmat and CSW guys on the mat because we all share a common bond in the pursuit of excellence. We welcome them and visitors from all walks.
They tell people who walk through their door that other academies are just out to hurt you. Let me tell you this: the only people that get hurt at almost every academy are the people that come in with bad attitudes. Be a normal person there to learn and you are fine at most places! At our gym, we even extend grace to people who are pressing all the wrong buttons! We have those wrestlers showing you how do make a stance as Omar did tonight to our brand new white belt. I worked with him teaching him how to defend punches from the guard and get a double leg vs an overhand right.
Just as they did when I was a beginner, they make their straw man case for what other “sport” academies are like…and we are as sport as it gets. Berimbolo, worm…I teach it at a high level of detail. Its offensive.
Honestly, I can even see them doing a Gracie Breakdown of this post for damage control. They will make the same tired arguments they have always made, that their goal is to reach out to people and provide a safe atmosphere where its all about self defense. See what I did there? Thats calling setting expectations. It makes you, the reader, slightly less receptive to their message and criticisms. This is exactly the same tactic they use with their jiu-jitsu philosophy. Set exceptions of criticism by the BJJ community to make you less receptive to what they are saying. Expect criticism, but YOU are on the correct path and they are all wrong! Hard to reason with people who have that train of thought.
Instead of helping the new student rise up to the occasion of Jiu-Jitsu, they bring Jiu-Jitsu down to the student. ”
Stephen Jackson wrote:Make sure u want these problems. Goggle me slime. Im in da streets.
Stephen Jackson wrote:Make sure u want these problems. Goggle me slime. Im in da streets.
Stephen Jackson wrote:Make sure u want these problems. Goggle me slime. Im in da streets.
Stephen Jackson wrote:Make sure u want these problems. Goggle me slime. Im in da streets.
Stephen Jackson wrote:Make sure u want these problems. Goggle me slime. Im in da streets.
Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) and USA Wrestling, the national governing body of wrestling in the United States, jointly announced they have renewed their partnership "to promote interest in wrestling and mixed martial arts (MMA), while working together on a variety of projects to support each organization's activities," a press release stated on Tuesday....
"We are extremely excited to renew our partnership with USA Wrestling and continue to build on the success we've experienced over the last year," UFC Vice President of Federation Relationships and Corporate Social Responsibility Lou Lauria said in the joint statement. "UFC has a long and rich history supporting the development of amateur athletes and our relationship with USA Wrestling dates back to the very beginning of UFC."
Specifics on the nature of their partnership were not released, but the joint statement noted the organizations would work to mututally support the growth and development of both sports. USA Wrestling also said it's brand and "activities will be featured across several areas such as UFC's broadcasts, social and digital media."
As for UFC, USA Wrestling said it would use its media platforms to share information about UFC. In addition, the organization would offer it's 250,000 members "exclusive opportunities" to engage with UFC products, events and other forms or rewards.
Stephen Jackson wrote:Make sure u want these problems. Goggle me slime. Im in da streets.
Stephen Jackson wrote:Make sure u want these problems. Goggle me slime. Im in da streets.
Stephen Jackson wrote:Make sure u want these problems. Goggle me slime. Im in da streets.
Doctor MJ wrote:I don't understand why people jump in a thread and say basically, "This thing you're all talking about. I'm too ignorant to know anything about it. Lollerskates!"
NO-KG-AI wrote:Friend of mine just took first at NAGA in the novice division. Pretty cool, was his first competition and he had no official high school wrestling experience or anything.
Edit: The guy he beat in the finals was definitely not a novice, it was just his first tourney with no gi, but his jiu-jitsu was pretty awesome. My buddy managed to win because he is about the biggest guy I've ever seen be able to cut down to 145 so naturally, and his conditioning and greco gave him just enough.
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Stephen Jackson wrote:Make sure u want these problems. Goggle me slime. Im in da streets.
REDDzone wrote:NO-KG-AI wrote:Friend of mine just took first at NAGA in the novice division. Pretty cool, was his first competition and he had no official high school wrestling experience or anything.
Edit: The guy he beat in the finals was definitely not a novice, it was just his first tourney with no gi, but his jiu-jitsu was pretty awesome. My buddy managed to win because he is about the biggest guy I've ever seen be able to cut down to 145 so naturally, and his conditioning and greco gave him just enough.
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Sounds a lot like my experience with local tournaments like that. Your buddy probably went through three division one wrestlers in the "novice" division, although those dudes are supposed to count all grappling experience. I've seen D-1 wrestlers enter white belt, beginner's, etc. So ridiculous. Although your buddy had greco? He should count that too.
I was once mounted triangled (LOL) by a sponsored pro mma fighter in an intermediate (1-3 years of experience) division. Really bro?
Doctor MJ wrote:I don't understand why people jump in a thread and say basically, "This thing you're all talking about. I'm too ignorant to know anything about it. Lollerskates!"
NO-KG-AI wrote:His trainer's main focus has always been greco. He has a little experiencing training in them all, but no experience competing really. The only time he ever competed was like an exhibition match as a freshman or something, and he got off t he wrestling team.
Apparently everyone there was a sandbagger though, especially the guy in the finals. If he wasn't at a size disadvantage, he'd have won easily, and everyone at the tournament was expecting him to sweep his division. Dude was tapping people with purple belt level subs in the earlier rounds.
I thought he would do well, because I saw how hard his training was, and how well he was cutting weight. I figured there would be a lot of guys fighting closer to their walk around weights than really cutting down in a healthy fashion, but he was pretty nervous and really had no idea how to feel about how he was going to fair. I know it's taken seriously, but these are guys with jobs and schedules, not pro fighters lol.
I'm going to be interested in how well he does now that he can't compete at novice. I think he plans to cut to 139 though. He was cutting to 149, and he made it to 145 so easy that he's sure he can do 139 well too. He went from 145 to 163 after the weigh in. He's going to be massive in that division.
Also seen some sketchy a** stuff like the scale being ~5 lbs light and such. Stephen Jackson wrote:Make sure u want these problems. Goggle me slime. Im in da streets.
REDDzone wrote:NO-KG-AI wrote:His trainer's main focus has always been greco. He has a little experiencing training in them all, but no experience competing really. The only time he ever competed was like an exhibition match as a freshman or something, and he got off t he wrestling team.
Apparently everyone there was a sandbagger though, especially the guy in the finals. If he wasn't at a size disadvantage, he'd have won easily, and everyone at the tournament was expecting him to sweep his division. Dude was tapping people with purple belt level subs in the earlier rounds.
I thought he would do well, because I saw how hard his training was, and how well he was cutting weight. I figured there would be a lot of guys fighting closer to their walk around weights than really cutting down in a healthy fashion, but he was pretty nervous and really had no idea how to feel about how he was going to fair. I know it's taken seriously, but these are guys with jobs and schedules, not pro fighters lol.
I'm going to be interested in how well he does now that he can't compete at novice. I think he plans to cut to 139 though. He was cutting to 149, and he made it to 145 so easy that he's sure he can do 139 well too. He went from 145 to 163 after the weigh in. He's going to be massive in that division.
Yea man sandbagging is an epidemic its so ridiculous. At least with ibjjf you don't really get that because they just go by belt levels instead of subjective "experience", but hell with ibjjf these days you can run into guys who train full time at blue belt (seriously).
That, plus the weight cutting thing you mention is probably the biggest reason why I'll probably never be a big competitor. I'm the dude who competes at 170 but steps on the scale at 168 with my clothes on, I'll just never be the dude who "cuts weight" for anything, and in shape I'm late 160s so what can you do? Dudes all around me at the night before weigh-ins, in line weighing in wearing only their underwear, then hopping off the scale and running to their pedialite. So ridiculous.
Are you planning on competing?
Doctor MJ wrote:I don't understand why people jump in a thread and say basically, "This thing you're all talking about. I'm too ignorant to know anything about it. Lollerskates!"
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