Back Alley brawl: Zion vs McGregor who wins?

[Pg81]

size and strength definitely matters to some extent. as an example -

Watch on YouTube

quite obvious that if actually trying the mountain from game of thrones gets one hold of mcgregor and could literally kill him.

Isn't this guy like the twice the weight of Zion?

This was hardly anything serious just some light sparring but yeah that guy is taller than Zion, a lot heavier and stronger as well since has been a champion among the strong men in the world competition. Zion is not even close to that kind of strength and he is about two inches shorter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haf%C3%BE%C3%B3r_J%C3%BAl%C3%ADus_Bj%C3%B6rnsson

Weight: 180–200 kg (397–441 lb)

Ridiculous to think that Zion is even remotely close in that comparison.

[Duke4life831]

size and strength definitely matters to some extent. as an example -

Watch on YouTube

quite obvious that if actually trying the mountain from game of thrones gets one hold of mcgregor and could literally kill him.

Isn't this guy like the twice the weight of Zion?

Ya he is 6'9 450 pounds. He is also the world's strongest human being. Also people have posted this video multiple times and I still dont get the point of it. Its a friendly "sparring" session, they're literally just joking around and not throwing any real strikes.

155 pound Roger Huerta knocked out a 250 pound Div 1 MLB in a street fight. So obviously a dude 100 pounds lighter than another dude can knock out the bigger guy.

[Satch]

It doesn't take much strength to connect and knock someone out or disable them, the extra size does nothing at preventing a quick strike. it only takes roughly 80 pounds psi to dislocate the knee and 85 to 150 to break a jaw. a trained fighter punches at 195 to 335 and kicks two to three times that.

[Calamity_Cometh]

Zion has the physical strength to maul Conor.

However, in a street fight, trained fighters are taught actual self defense moves that they can't use in the ring because they are designed to disable and kill. Throat strikes, knee stomps, arm bars that tear elbows, head shots at the base of the neck. I guarantee you that Conor knows these. And Zion doesn't.

[M4P]

Do you even read your own posts? You proclaimed that Zion with only a couple of months, or in other words 2 months training, would destroy McGregor. Now you say he would destroy hobbyists and amateurs with something like 1-2 years training. You are so inconsistent in your arguments that it is not even funny. McGregor has HUGE amount of experience and skill compared to Zion. Even if Zion trains for a couple of years he won`t win easily. Hell he might not even have that much talent for combat sports. Your original post was about silly as me proclaiming that any 7 footer aged 20/21 with two months training could compete in the NBA against any of the top 15 players in the league. The notion is so absurd it is not even funny. What is more this hypothetical does not even have rules. You know why combat sports have rules? So they do not kill each other.
Does weight class matter? Of course AMONG PROFESSIONALS!

So you don't even train, read any of my previous posts, or have any actual experience in combat sports. Got it, next.

So you have no arguments apart from personal attacks. Good to know.

not at all a personal attack. All three of my points stand. You have no personal experience in combat sports, don't understand the role that size and athleticism play, and can't seem to grasp that the differential between Zion and Conor is similar to that of a full grown adult male and a teenage female. If you had spent any time in a BJJ or MMA gym you would understand this pretty quickly.

[M4P]

That's great but Zion Williams doesn't have a blue belt. You're saying that if Zion Williams knew how to fight he could beat a fighter...but he doesn't know how to fight. Blue belt these days takes like two years to get at a good school, not exactly something you can learn overnight. A year at best if his sensei isn't a stiffler about promotions and he trains a ton a week.

As for your example - Ngannou doesn't dominate people on the floor and has never been a good jiu jitsu guy. Unless if you meant by mat you did not mean grappling, in which case Ngannou had a boxing background before he transferred over into MMA, and actually he lost very early in his career simply because he lacked experience.

Jon Jones and Nick Rodriguez had wrestling backgrounds before crossing over into MMA and Sub Wrestling. Several years of wrestling is essentially a high level belt in a martial art.

Zion Williams has a few basketball games in the NCAA and NBA. Not exactly comparable. Yes, if Zion had two years of training he'd be pretty good, but you're still underestimating how long it takes for guys to get good at fighting. There are pro NFL players who have decent careers in MMA but only really become decent after they had a few years and their reputation protected by good booking. Even then none of them have ever been that close to dominant or a serious contender.

In this hypothetical of hypotheticals occurring within a vacuum, I have already conceded that if a fight were to occur right now Conor would win pretty easily.

With that being said, I then made the point that if Zion committed, full-time, to a mma specific grappling art for a few months (ie obtain a blue belt under the assumption he is training full-time), he would pretty handily smash Conor. Ngannou and Jones were both incredibly raw during their first few fights. Jones was never the most technically elite wrestler in the UFC, but it did not matter because of his raw talent and athleticism. There is a reason why he's the GOAT and not DC. Ngannou is still incredibly raw and not at all technical, but is able to get away with it because of his power. "Mat time" is not specific to grappling, but refers to time refining a skillset. BJJ and wrestling aren't the only martial arts that involve mats.

Too many people here don't seem to understand the size, athleticism, and overall strength difference between Conor and Zion. A blue belt Zion (something that can absolutely be achieved within or under a year if training full-time) fighting Conor would be similar to Grace Gundrum grappling with pre ADCC trials Nick Rodriguez. It doesn't matter if you are a prodigy -- size and athleticism plays a HUGE role in combat sports.

1) Jon Jones was incredible wrestler prior to the UFC.

In 2006, Jon claimed the 197-pound National Junior College Athletic Association wrestling title, leading Iowa Central Community College to the first of five consecutive team championships.

There is no question Jones could have been one of the best collegiate wrestlers in the country if he chose that route. He beat phenoms like Max Askren (one of the best collegiate wrestlers ever, 3 time NCAA all-American) in College before dropping out and going into MMA. He literally comes from a family of accomplished wrestlers.

As we know, wrestling is the best base to start your MMA career.

So yes, Jones is a gifted athletic freak, but he didn't come without a great wrestling background to the UFC.

2) Ngannou didn't just go straight to the top level of MMA. Ngannou started training for boxing at the age of 22 on and off. At the age of 26 he trained under top boxing coaches in France. He made his MMA debut outside of the UFC at 27 years old. He fought for two years in amateur fighting leagues before getting the call to the UFC at age 29.

So Ngannou, while a physical freak, spent about 5 years of boxing training before even entering the MMA scene, and needed to prove himself in an amateur organization for two years, before getting the call to the UFC.

So this proves the amount of training required. You can't just train a few months and expect to hold your own against top fighters, not going to happen.

I don't know if you know this, but there are levels to wrestling. The difference between a JUCO title and an Olympic medalist... That is quite literally the difference between a high school title and a NBA title. If you sit and watch film you can easily see how much more technical DC is with his chain wrestling and entries. There is no comparison. But that does not matter because John is the better athlete primed for the sport.

The argument I am making is if Zion had a specialized camp revolved around him for x amount of months that he would pretty handily take on Conor.

Asking a random bum off the street to hold pads for you versus having a full training camp with multiple coaches and nutritionists helping with your weight cut are two different levels of training. Under this specific hypothetical, we are assuming that Zion will have the latter. This bout would also be catchweight and no time limit, two variables that vastly tip the odds towards Zion's favor.

Again the size and athletic differential between Zion and Conor is that of a full grown male and a teenage female.

[KungFuJoe]

So you don't even train, read any of my previous posts, or have any actual experience in combat sports. Got it, next.

So you have no arguments apart from personal attacks. Good to know.

not at all a personal attack. All three of my points stand. You have no personal experience in combat sports, don't understand the role that size and athleticism play, and can't seem to grasp that the differential between Zion and Conor is similar to that of a full grown adult male and a teenage female. If you had spent any time in a BJJ or MMA gym you would understand this pretty quickly.

Yes, but the human body has physical limits and at some point, the bigger you are, there’s diminishing results in terms of speed and agility.

Yes, Zion has 100lbs on Conner...but the difference between 180 and 280 is not the same as 90 vs 190.

And I think people are just focusing on the physical aspect, when fighting is mostly mental. Like I said before...it doesn’t matter how big you are...no one wants to get their ass beat...especially someone who’s probably never had his ass beat before.

Tyson’s famous quote of “everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth” sums this up pretty well. Someone who’s never been in a fight is going to be absolutely scared **** stepping up against a trained fighter. Zion would already lose before the first punch was even thrown.

And that would be true in just a boxing match, with huge ass gloves on. This topic mentioned back alley street fight. So take that fear factor and multiple it by 100x.

[M4P]

So you have no arguments apart from personal attacks. Good to know.

not at all a personal attack. All three of my points stand. You have no personal experience in combat sports, don't understand the role that size and athleticism play, and can't seem to grasp that the differential between Zion and Conor is similar to that of a full grown adult male and a teenage female. If you had spent any time in a BJJ or MMA gym you would understand this pretty quickly.

Yes, but the human body has physical limits and at some point, the bigger you are, there’s diminishing results in terms of speed and agility.

Yes, Zion has 100lbs on Conner...but the difference between 180 and 280 is not the same as 90 vs 190.

And I think people are just focusing on the physical aspect, when fighting is mostly mental. Like I said before...it doesn’t matter how big you are...no one wants to get their ass beat...especially someone who’s probably never had his ass beat before.

Tyson’s famous quote of “everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth” sums this up pretty well. Someone who’s never been in a fight is going to be absolutely scared **** stepping up against a trained fighter. Zion would already lose before the first punch was even thrown.

And that would be true in just a boxing match, with huge ass gloves on. This topic mentioned back alley street fight. So take that fear factor and multiple it by 100x.

you are severely underestimating how much of a genetic outlier Zion is. He is a more explosive and conditioned Conor on a 6'7, 285+ frame.

To put this in basketball context for the people here with no fighting experience. This comparison is like asking whether or not Shaq or Wilt would be dominant in this era because they couldn't shoot 3s or make their free throws. Sure, if you transported them across time there would be a learning curve. But once that proficiency threshold is crossed, it becomes pretty clear what the results will be.

[M4P]

Conor would win against a completely untrained Zion (right now). If Zion spent a couple of months learning basic wrestling takedowns and defense however, he would easily smash Conor.

Greg Hardy is basically a smaller Zion and he's doing great for someone that just picked up the sport (MMA).

Lol dudes in the ufc train for years and can be barely stuff takedowns in a fight but zion will pick it up in a couple of months

Greg is a pretty athletic guy himself and has been training for 2+ years and is been taking fighting seriously. Even still, Greg hardy fights tomato cans and lost when he faced a fringe top 15 guy as soon as it hit the ground.
This is in the heavyweight division where competition is lacking and everyone has a chance because of punchers chance.

Zion won't land anything on a pro fighter.
I swear realgm thinks nba players are some super atheltes. When the 2012 olympics were happening, there was a debate that a group of nba players can win gold in volleyball

If a fight were to happen right now Conor wins, no question.

If Zion were given a full camp to prepare for a catchweight, no time limit "alleyway brawl", Zion wins. The skill difference cannot close the gap between physical attributes. Again, the size, athleticism, and overall strength different is similar to that of a prime adult male and a post-puberty female.

[Jasen777]

The General Board isn't sending their best.

[Pg81]

So you don't even train, read any of my previous posts, or have any actual experience in combat sports. Got it, next.

So you have no arguments apart from personal attacks. Good to know.

not at all a personal attack. All three of my points stand. You have no personal experience in combat sports, don't understand the role that size and athleticism play, and can't seem to grasp that the differential between Zion and Conor is similar to that of a full grown adult male and a teenage female. If you had spent any time in a BJJ or MMA gym you would understand this pretty quickly.

Yes they are.Literally the only argument you have is "you do not do combat sports".
I understand the diferences very well.After I all I was a basketball coach for a basketall for all ages and both sexes. What is more I understand the differnce in experience and skill also very well or why do you think I could spank more talented and more athletic young teens easily when doing some 1v1 training when I went serious?

Conor would win against a completely untrained Zion (right now). If Zion spent a couple of months learning basic wrestling takedowns and defense however, he would easily smash Conor.

Greg Hardy is basically a smaller Zion and he's doing great for someone that just picked up the sport (MMA).

Lol dudes in the ufc train for years and can be barely stuff takedowns in a fight but zion will pick it up in a couple of months

Greg is a pretty athletic guy himself and has been training for 2+ years and is been taking fighting seriously. Even still, Greg hardy fights tomato cans and lost when he faced a fringe top 15 guy as soon as it hit the ground.
This is in the heavyweight division where competition is lacking and everyone has a chance because of punchers chance.

Zion won't land anything on a pro fighter.
I swear realgm thinks nba players are some super atheltes. When the 2012 olympics were happening, there was a debate that a group of nba players can win gold in volleyball

If a fight were to happen right now Conor wins, no question.

If Zion were given a full camp to prepare for a catchweight, no time limit "alleyway brawl", Zion wins. The skill difference cannot close the gap between physical attributes. Again, the size, athleticism, and overall strength different is similar to that of a prime adult male and a post-puberty female.

No not really over a decade of experience and the ability to soak a lot of punishment is not something you can compensate for with 2 months training camp, that is delusional thinking. Terrible analogy just like the crappy analogies with gorillas, bulls and elephants. The difference between man and woman goes far beyond mere muscle strength.

[M4P]

So you have no arguments apart from personal attacks. Good to know.

not at all a personal attack. All three of my points stand. You have no personal experience in combat sports, don't understand the role that size and athleticism play, and can't seem to grasp that the differential between Zion and Conor is similar to that of a full grown adult male and a teenage female. If you had spent any time in a BJJ or MMA gym you would understand this pretty quickly.

Yes they are.Literally the only argument you have is "you do not do combat sports".
I understand the diferences very well.After I all I was a basketball coach for a basketall for all ages and both sexes. What is more I understand the differnce in experience and skill also very well or why do you think I could spank more talented and more athletic young teens easily when doing some 1v1 training when I went serious?

Lol dudes in the ufc train for years and can be barely stuff takedowns in a fight but zion will pick it up in a couple of months

Greg is a pretty athletic guy himself and has been training for 2+ years and is been taking fighting seriously. Even still, Greg hardy fights tomato cans and lost when he faced a fringe top 15 guy as soon as it hit the ground.
This is in the heavyweight division where competition is lacking and everyone has a chance because of punchers chance.

Zion won't land anything on a pro fighter.
I swear realgm thinks nba players are some super atheltes. When the 2012 olympics were happening, there was a debate that a group of nba players can win gold in volleyball

If a fight were to happen right now Conor wins, no question.

If Zion were given a full camp to prepare for a catchweight, no time limit "alleyway brawl", Zion wins. The skill difference cannot close the gap between physical attributes. Again, the size, athleticism, and overall strength different is similar to that of a prime adult male and a post-puberty female.

No not really over a decade of experience and the ability to soak a lot of punishment is not something you can compensate for with 2 months training camp, that is delusional thinking. Terrible analogy just like the crappy analogies with gorillas, bulls and elephants. The difference between man and woman goes far beyond mere muscle strength.

"I was a basketball coach for both sexes therefore I am qualified to provide input on the physiological advantages males have over females.". Lol. The physiological differences between males and females is even more amplified in fighting than it is in basketball. Pick up a combat sports for even a month and you'll see how embarrassing your claims are.

I don't know why you keep bringing up the two month time frame when I am referencing a full camp. You are clearly talking outside of your expertise and have no knowledge of how a fight camp is ran and what it encompasses. A blue belt in BJJ can absolutely be obtained in under a year or a couple if months if your life revolves around it.

FYI your ability to take damage deteriorates over time. You don't "level up" in being able to take shots. Fighting isn't a video game. CTE is very real.

You are comparing a still growing, more athletic, conditioned, and stronger Zion with 10" of height, over 100lbs, thicker bone structure and tendons, and the ability to generate force to an average adult male. Quite frankly you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Headliner]

Conor would win against a completely untrained Zion (right now). If Zion spent a couple of months learning basic wrestling takedowns and defense however, he would easily smash Conor.

Greg Hardy is basically a smaller Zion and he's doing great for someone that just picked up the sport (MMA).

Lol dudes in the ufc train for years and can be barely stuff takedowns in a fight but zion will pick it up in a couple of months

Greg is a pretty athletic guy himself and has been training for 2+ years and is been taking fighting seriously. Even still, Greg hardy fights tomato cans and lost when he faced a fringe top 15 guy as soon as it hit the ground.
This is in the heavyweight division where competition is lacking and everyone has a chance because of punchers chance.

Zion won't land anything on a pro fighter.
I swear realgm thinks nba players are some super atheltes. When the 2012 olympics were happening, there was a debate that a group of nba players can win gold in volleyball

If a fight were to happen right now Conor wins, no question.

If Zion were given a full camp to prepare for a catchweight, no time limit "alleyway brawl", Zion wins. The skill difference cannot close the gap between physical attributes. Again, the size, athleticism, and overall strength different is similar to that of a prime adult male and a post-puberty female.

[M4P]

Lol dudes in the ufc train for years and can be barely stuff takedowns in a fight but zion will pick it up in a couple of months

Greg is a pretty athletic guy himself and has been training for 2+ years and is been taking fighting seriously. Even still, Greg hardy fights tomato cans and lost when he faced a fringe top 15 guy as soon as it hit the ground.
This is in the heavyweight division where competition is lacking and everyone has a chance because of punchers chance.

Zion won't land anything on a pro fighter.
I swear realgm thinks nba players are some super atheltes. When the 2012 olympics were happening, there was a debate that a group of nba players can win gold in volleyball

If a fight were to happen right now Conor wins, no question.

If Zion were given a full camp to prepare for a catchweight, no time limit "alleyway brawl", Zion wins. The skill difference cannot close the gap between physical attributes. Again, the size, athleticism, and overall strength different is similar to that of a prime adult male and a post-puberty female.

Honestly Conor should go the Sakuraba/Floyd route and start taking these David vs Goliath matches because he's not going to be a top contender anymore. The game has passed him in the LW division and he's too small to make noise at WW.

[Headliner]

If a fight were to happen right now Conor wins, no question.

If Zion were given a full camp to prepare for a catchweight, no time limit "alleyway brawl", Zion wins. The skill difference cannot close the gap between physical attributes. Again, the size, athleticism, and overall strength different is similar to that of a prime adult male and a post-puberty female.

Honestly Conor should go the Sakuraba/Floyd route and start taking these David vs Goliath matches because he's not going to be a top contender anymore. The game has passed him in the LW division and he's too small to make noise at WW.

I’d say he should go box Zac Efron, but efron is jacked a d apparently it only takes one camp to become an elite martial artist, so even that’s too dangerous

[M4P]

Honestly Conor should go the Sakuraba/Floyd route and start taking these David vs Goliath matches because he's not going to be a top contender anymore. The game has passed him in the LW division and he's too small to make noise at WW.

I’d say he should go box Zac Efron, but efron is jacked a d apparently it only takes one camp to become an elite martial artist, so even that’s too dangerous

MMA is a sport with a set time limit and fouls. This thread is about a hypothetical, within a vacuum, alleyway brawl.


Also post cycle Zac Efron is tiny and would get wrecked by Zion with no training.

[primecougar]

Conor would win against a completely untrained Zion (right now). If Zion spent a couple of months learning basic wrestling takedowns and defense however, he would easily smash Conor.

Greg Hardy is basically a smaller Zion and he's doing great for someone that just picked up the sport (MMA).

Lol dudes in the ufc train for years and can be barely stuff takedowns in a fight but zion will pick it up in a couple of months

Greg is a pretty athletic guy himself and has been training for 2+ years and is been taking fighting seriously. Even still, Greg hardy fights tomato cans and lost when he faced a fringe top 15 guy as soon as it hit the ground.
This is in the heavyweight division where competition is lacking and everyone has a chance because of punchers chance.

Zion won't land anything on a pro fighter.
I swear realgm thinks nba players are some super atheltes. When the 2012 olympics were happening, there was a debate that a group of nba players can win gold in volleyball

If a fight were to happen right now Conor wins, no question.

If Zion were given a full camp to prepare for a catchweight, no time limit "alleyway brawl", Zion wins. The skill difference cannot close the gap between physical attributes. Again, the size, athleticism, and overall strength different is similar to that of a prime adult male and a post-puberty female.

Idon't know if you're trolling but if you're not, answer my question.
Ok can jon jones who is a super athlete, his brothers are in the nfl. He's 6-4 with a 7 foot wing span, crazy athletic with 6 months of basketball training, will he beat chris paul in a basketball game?

Basketball is a game where height matters (similar to how size matters in a fight) and Jon jones is 5 inches taller, has bigger reach, and more athletic. Will he be able to beat cp3 in a 1v1 game? Like just back him down and score and block every shot after

[primecougar]

Zion has the physical strength to maul Conor.

However, in a street fight, trained fighters are taught actual self defense moves that they can't use in the ring because they are designed to disable and kill. Throat strikes, knee stomps, arm bars that tear elbows, head shots at the base of the neck. I guarantee you that Conor knows these. And Zion doesn't.

Dude it doesn't matter where the fight takes place. 125 pound pro fighters would hurt everyone accept other pro fighters.

125 pound guys are not for very popular in the ufc but the speed and pace they fight at is truly insane. 1-2eg kicks on a guy that's never been hit with a leg kick will disable him.

[primecougar]

Watch on YouTube

Y'all need to watch this. Look how easy it is for a guy much smaller to control a 275 pound nfl pro bowler.

[soxfan2003]

In all likelihood, Zion would get his a** handed to him and be utterly destroyed unless he has already being trained as a boxer/martial arts for many years. McGregor without even using his martial arts gave a respectable showing against Floyd Mayweather, one of the best boxers ever. And I doubt Zion has been training to hard in those activities since something like yoga is probably more important for his long term basketball success than boxing/martial arts. (Football players like linebackers and defensive ends probably more likely to train in martial arts since it helps them with some football moves.)

Zion would probably end up with a bunch of broken bones if McGregor wanted to mess him up on the street. He could also kill him and break his neck like a pencil if he wanted.

It would be scary what these MMA fighters could do on the street given their knowledge and no rules/refs at all to hold them back. Yes, a really good amateur heavyweight MMA fighter should kick the crap out of McGregor more often than not but not some random great NBA athlete with size with 3 months of training. World of difference there. Zion wouldn't be stupid enough to even try.

Boxing and MMA skills and the athleticism required for it is very different than dunking or shooting a basketball.

And that video of McGregor messing around with a much bigger person than Zion is utterly meaningless. Instead watch how he moved in the ring against one of the best fighters ever. World of difference and McGregor was up against arguably the best defensive fighter ever. Yes, Mayweather's skills had declined some by then but he was still elite and the acknowledged best boxer in his weight class. In a real fight against a much bigger opponent that barely knew what he was doing in terms of fighting, McGregor would realize what he is up against and would (probably) use the same tactics that little or men have used against much bigger individuals all of the time. Assuming he isn't even using martial arts, time you entries and take 2-3 quick shots and move away. Probably laughably easy for McGregor to do this vs Zion. You do that 6-7 times and Zion is probably done with bloodied eyes without McGregor even having to resort to martial arts.

I am not saying size doesn't matter in fights but I have seen or heard about too many instances of much smaller people destroying better athletes who outweighed them by 60-100 pounds.

What people don't realize, the fight isn't held on Zion's terms. Zion charges him, McGregor give him a quick combination that stuns him and forces him back and moves quickly. You get your nose broken/eyes smashed, you tend to move away quick and stop your momentum forward.

Zion would be better served in a super small boxing ring but he wouldn't have that on the street which just gives McGregor a bigger advantage.

Any 240+ lb NFL player that is a legit black belt in karate and athletic freak would have a good chance fighting McGregor given some serious training before hand but the fighting skills of McGregor hard to overcome with just size/strength alone.

And this just doesn't apply to McGregor but a ton of other martial arts people and boxers.