OT: Pacquiao... he deserves this on a basketball forum.

[DCasey91]

Other than fighting organizations won't even let these guys compete with actual fighters. It's comical people calling these guys the best fighters...they wouldn't make a top 10,000 fighter list.

Huh?

They're little people...it would be like an nba for under 6'0. You'd never consider them real basketball players.

Believe what you want to believe have a good one.

[dhsilv2]

Huh?

They're little people...it would be like an nba for under 6'0. You'd never consider them real basketball players.

Believe what you want to believe have a good one.

You think these guys would compete at the top of boxing or MMA or whatever without weight classes? Seriously?

[DCasey91]

They're little people...it would be like an nba for under 6'0. You'd never consider them real basketball players.

Believe what you want to believe have a good one.

You think these guys would compete at the top of boxing or MMA or whatever without weight classes? Seriously?

Do you know why there is pound for pound rankings in the first place?

Name the 10,000 fighters then.

Please

Ignorance is bliss.

UFC and boxing is miles more stacked at lower weight divs.

HW/LHW doesn’t compare especially in UFC.

Do you know who BJ Penn even is? He fought at catchweight to the distance to a LHW champ. Flip the script BJ would destroy Machida if he had to go down to LW which he can’t possibly do.

Stop with the BS

[axeman23]

Sounds like an excuse to me. He could have postponed the fight.

By taking the fight, he was trying to set himself up for best of both worlds:

1. If he wins, "I beat Mayweather with a bum arm"
2. If he loses, "I had an injury" and his fans will keep repeating it for him

If he's healthy enough to get into the ring, he keeps that L if he loses.

Pacquiao's team requested (and was denied) a pre-fight pain-killing injection of totally legal nature, Toradol. Meanwhile Floyd got a pre-fight IV treatment administered at home, "ammounting to 16% of the total average male's blood quantity, containing saline, multivitamins and vitamin C." Illegal under WADA rules pre-competition, as it could be used to mask performance-enhancers. USADA authorized Mayweather's IV injections, but the NCAC was not told about them until post-fight.

https://www.si.com/boxing/2015/09/09/floyd-mayweather-illegal-iv-injection-manny-pacquiao

Pacquiao got surgery to repair a torn rotator cuff within a week after the fight, kind of a long way to go for an "excuse". Also negotiations had gone on for over 5 years to get the FIRST fight, Pacquiao post-pones, it might be ANOTHER 6 years...

"An analysis of Pacquiao’s fight by Gordon Marino of The Wall Street Journal suggests that Pacquiao’s injury could have affected his performance. He only threw 16 right-handed jabs per round compared to his normal average of 26. Only 18 of those jabs connected with Mayweather all night. Pacquiao barely used the right hook that he usually delivers after a straight left. And he only threw 429 punches in the entire fight, 50% lower than his average and his lowest total ever in a fight. We can only speculate whether Floyd Mayweather’s strategy caused those changes or if Pacquiao’s bum shoulder did."

The above quote is from this article, by an Orthopedic surgeon and sports medicine specialist, here:

https://www.drdavidgeier.com/manny-pacquiao-shoulder-rotator-cuff-tear/

No version of Pac, under any circumstance, time, place, beats a prime Floyd. Get over it. Pac would also get lit up by Duran and Aaron Pryor. Let’s not even talk about what SRL and Hearns would do to him.

At what point in my post did I say Pacquiao would have beaten Floyd? I was addressing the previous posters "looks like he's setting himself up with excuses" angle. Way to reach, but! If Floyd had your reach he might have come out of his shell and done more than duck Pacquiao's punches most of the fight... Again, not disputing Floyd's talent as a boxer, just not a fan of the style...

[Pelon chingon]

Canelo and his team are still very careful who they fight though. He's interested in unifying SMW because it's not a deep division cause he had no interest and still doesn't of cleaning out and unifying MW which has always been the deeper division. And if he beats Plant I'd be stunned if he sticks around and fights Benavidez who's clearly the best SMW. And Canelo is a great fighter but I'll say this over and over, he's ducking Andrade period and he can try to justify it all he wants but a duck is a duck. And that's cause he struggles with mobile fighters who are not there to be hit.

Benavidez is the best SMW based on what exactly? Its probably all that unifying hes done. Canelo Moved up from 160 and has since captured straps at 175 and is 1 fight away from cleaning out 168 and Andrade is still choking on his dust and hasn't unified ish or moved up from 160 WHY? Andrade is the definition of obscurity and a cautionary tale for all future generations the way he fumbled his own career. Seriously do you even watch his fights they are stinkers. Hate on Canelo all you want but 1st you have to tell me who's doing it better.

Ring Magazine, ESPN and the majority of boxing fans think Benavidez is and if you notice that's the real fight people want to see. Benavidez has yet to actually lose a title in the ring so if Canelo beats Plant he should give him a shot. I don't care about Canelo's trinket at 175 either because again he fought someone who wasn't even considered the best in the division and has been done since Ward. You notice Canelo didn't want any part of Beterbiev who's been universally considered the best LHW. And as far as who's doing it better give me fighters like Shawn Porter, Spence, or even Usyk and Fury who are down to fight anybody no matter if they're boring or their style is hard to figure out. Canelo talks about how Andrade hasn't beat anybody but fights guys like Kirkland, Chavez Jr, Khan, and Fielding.

You have to start reading your posts outloud before hitting submit. "The majority of boxing fans" think David Benavidez is better than Canelo Alvarez? I think not. The bar is set so high for Canelo in the eyes of his detractors he has to fight the best guy in each division or it's a "trinket" lol. His first touch at 175 he was actually behind to Kovalev before he got on the gas and turned off the lights do you rralize how amazing that is. If Kovalev was so washed how come nobody else was willing to take his scalp? I'll help you out Because its dangerous AF! Those guys you mentioned like Spence, Porter and especially USYK all great gladiators but fall short to Canelos P4P status. Last thing I'll say about Andrade you criticize Canelo for names like Kirkland, Khan and whoever but those guys would theoretically be Andrades best win lol. In Ward's words "there are levels to this" Canelo just happens to be on the highest one right now.

[cowboyronnie]

Canelo and his team are still very careful who they fight though. He's interested in unifying SMW because it's not a deep division cause he had no interest and still doesn't of cleaning out and unifying MW which has always been the deeper division. And if he beats Plant I'd be stunned if he sticks around and fights Benavidez who's clearly the best SMW. And Canelo is a great fighter but I'll say this over and over, he's ducking Andrade period and he can try to justify it all he wants but a duck is a duck. And that's cause he struggles with mobile fighters who are not there to be hit.

Benavidez is the best SMW based on what exactly? Its probably all that unifying hes done. Canelo Moved up from 160 and has since captured straps at 175 and is 1 fight away from cleaning out 168 and Andrade is still choking on his dust and hasn't unified ish or moved up from 160 WHY? Andrade is the definition of obscurity and a cautionary tale for all future generations the way he fumbled his own career. Seriously do you even watch his fights they are stinkers. Hate on Canelo all you want but 1st you have to tell me who's doing it better.

Ring Magazine, ESPN and the majority of boxing fans think Benavidez is and if you notice that's the real fight people want to see. Benavidez has yet to actually lose a title in the ring so if Canelo beats Plant he should give him a shot. I don't care about Canelo's trinket at 175 either because again he fought someone who wasn't even considered the best in the division and has been done since Ward. You notice Canelo didn't want any part of Beterbiev who's been universally considered the best LHW. And as far as who's doing it better give me fighters like Shawn Porter, Spence, or even Usyk and Fury who are down to fight anybody no matter if they're boring or their style is hard to figure out. Canelo talks about how Andrade hasn't beat anybody but fights guys like Kirkland, Chavez Jr, Khan, and Fielding.

Easy styles...like Billy Joe Saunders, Callum Smith, and Daniel Jacobs?

You're complaining about fights he had in 2015. Kirkland? He once fought Kirkland, it's true. 6 years ago. Who cares? What about the guys he's fought in the last 2 years?

Like those I have named. Those are not easy style match-ups. BJS is not an easy match-up. A mover, a southpaw, bigger than Canelo. There is a reason he was undefeated. Did you see BJS vs Lemieux? Canelo **** destroyed him. Callum Smith, likewise. Undefeated, straight punches in combo, one of the tallest people possible in the division. Canelo **** destroyed him. Daniel Jacobs. As pedigreed as you can get, much bigger than Canelo. Canelo won 8-4.

But, yeah, he once fought James Kirkland on Boxing After Dark in an brutal, action-packed fight. So, uhh, let's forget about his recent work.

[dhsilv2]

Believe what you want to believe have a good one.

You think these guys would compete at the top of boxing or MMA or whatever without weight classes? Seriously?

Do you know why there is pound for pound rankings in the first place?

Name the 10,000 fighters then.

Please

Ignorance is bliss.

UFC and boxing is miles more stacked at lower weight divs.

HW/LHW doesn’t compare especially in UFC.

Do you know who BJ Penn even is? He fought at catchweight to the distance to a LHW champ. Flip the script BJ would destroy Machida if he had to go down to LW which he can’t possibly do.

Stop with the BS

Why would someone want to go down to a lower weight? In a fight you want to have the most weight possible, mass is important in a fight. And the 10 of course was a random number and it was in reference to ALL TIME.

And hey I get the love to watch some of these guys. Mayweather is so easy to watch. He's so basic. he can't hit hard enough to really knock someone out. You watch Iron Mike........you blink and you miss that slight slight error that leads to a knock out. So yeah I get why fans like it, but they're not great enough.

[DCasey91]

You think these guys would compete at the top of boxing or MMA or whatever without weight classes? Seriously?

Do you know why there is pound for pound rankings in the first place?

Name the 10,000 fighters then.

Please

Ignorance is bliss.

UFC and boxing is miles more stacked at lower weight divs.

HW/LHW doesn’t compare especially in UFC.

Do you know who BJ Penn even is? He fought at catchweight to the distance to a LHW champ. Flip the script BJ would destroy Machida if he had to go down to LW which he can’t possibly do.

Stop with the BS

Why would someone want to go down to a lower weight? In a fight you want to have the most weight possible, mass is important in a fight. And the 10 of course was a random number and it was in reference to ALL TIME.

And hey I get the love to watch some of these guys. Mayweather is so easy to watch. He's so basic. he can't hit hard enough to really knock someone out. You watch Iron Mike........you blink and you miss that slight slight error that leads to a knock out. So yeah I get why fans like it, but they're not great enough.

Mayweather is basic, okay have a good one.

[jokeboy86]

Benavidez is the best SMW based on what exactly? Its probably all that unifying hes done. Canelo Moved up from 160 and has since captured straps at 175 and is 1 fight away from cleaning out 168 and Andrade is still choking on his dust and hasn't unified ish or moved up from 160 WHY? Andrade is the definition of obscurity and a cautionary tale for all future generations the way he fumbled his own career. Seriously do you even watch his fights they are stinkers. Hate on Canelo all you want but 1st you have to tell me who's doing it better.

Ring Magazine, ESPN and the majority of boxing fans think Benavidez is and if you notice that's the real fight people want to see. Benavidez has yet to actually lose a title in the ring so if Canelo beats Plant he should give him a shot. I don't care about Canelo's trinket at 175 either because again he fought someone who wasn't even considered the best in the division and has been done since Ward. You notice Canelo didn't want any part of Beterbiev who's been universally considered the best LHW. And as far as who's doing it better give me fighters like Shawn Porter, Spence, or even Usyk and Fury who are down to fight anybody no matter if they're boring or their style is hard to figure out. Canelo talks about how Andrade hasn't beat anybody but fights guys like Kirkland, Chavez Jr, Khan, and Fielding.

You have to start reading your posts outloud before hitting submit. "The majority of boxing fans" think David Benavidez is better than Canelo Alvarez? I think not. The bar is set so high for Canelo in the eyes of his detractors he has to fight the best guy in each division or it's a "trinket" lol. His first touch at 175 he was actually behind to Kovalev before he got on the gas and turned off the lights do you rralize how amazing that is. If Kovalev was so washed how come nobody else was willing to take his scalp? I'll help you out Because its dangerous AF! Those guys you mentioned like Spence, Porter and especially USYK all great gladiators but fall short to Canelos P4P status. Last thing I'll say about Andrade you criticize Canelo for names like Kirkland, Khan and whoever but those guys would theoretically be Andrades best win lol. In Ward's words "there are levels to this" Canelo just happens to be on the highest one right now.

Oh I can read but it's cool that you selectively chose what to address. Your first sentence said "Benavidez is the best SMW based on what"? So I answered you in the first sentence. You say the bar is set high for Canelo? The bar is set high for every fighter who's supposed to be great. The bar was set high for Manny, Floyd, B-Hop, Ward, Fury or any fighter in a premier division or who is hyped which Canelo was immensely. Kovalev was washed as far as being a top fighter since the Ward fights and everybody knows that. Don't act like just having a belt is the only thing that determines whether you're a top fighter and also if you're not Canelo there really isn't much money in fighting Kovalev.

You say Spence and Usyk fail to be at Canelo's level? Spence from the moment he got to WW has called out every fighter and the only one's he hasn't faced are Thurman(payback for Thurman ducking him), Bud(promotional reasons), and Pacquiao who he was geared to face before the eye injury. Spence has even mentioned he wouldn't mind facing Canelo. When has Canelo called fighters out after being a star? Oh that's right he talked tough to GGG and then waited a year to fight him (and still lost the first fight according to the majority of the boxing press and fans).


Usyk unified LHW and then comes up to dominate one of the top 3 heavyweights in the world and you don't think that not P4P worthy? I really don''t know what to say. And I cited Shawn Porter because although he may not win every fight he's willing to fight ANYBODY something that he's proved for years something that Canelo seems hesitant to do even though everyone would be willing to fight him. Again I'll ask you what great fighter in their prime has Canelo definitively beat? If you can answer that then the floor is yours.

And you lost all credibility when you say Kirkland (who has a nice narrative but got too much attention) and a bloated Khan at 160 would be Andrade's best wins. I guess Martirosyan is just a bum compared to those guys, right?

And since you seem to be a Canelo fan I won't even bring up "beef" or his suspect team so we'll just leave that alone. Again I keep saying I actually think the guy is a great fighter but his past promoters and management have basically been coddling him since he first debut on HBO. Canelo's likable but some of his extreme fans are like Pac or Floyd fans and get to be too much with the idol worshiping and defending him.

[jokeboy86]

Benavidez is the best SMW based on what exactly? Its probably all that unifying hes done. Canelo Moved up from 160 and has since captured straps at 175 and is 1 fight away from cleaning out 168 and Andrade is still choking on his dust and hasn't unified ish or moved up from 160 WHY? Andrade is the definition of obscurity and a cautionary tale for all future generations the way he fumbled his own career. Seriously do you even watch his fights they are stinkers. Hate on Canelo all you want but 1st you have to tell me who's doing it better.

Ring Magazine, ESPN and the majority of boxing fans think Benavidez is and if you notice that's the real fight people want to see. Benavidez has yet to actually lose a title in the ring so if Canelo beats Plant he should give him a shot. I don't care about Canelo's trinket at 175 either because again he fought someone who wasn't even considered the best in the division and has been done since Ward. You notice Canelo didn't want any part of Beterbiev who's been universally considered the best LHW. And as far as who's doing it better give me fighters like Shawn Porter, Spence, or even Usyk and Fury who are down to fight anybody no matter if they're boring or their style is hard to figure out. Canelo talks about how Andrade hasn't beat anybody but fights guys like Kirkland, Chavez Jr, Khan, and Fielding.

Easy styles...like Billy Joe Saunders, Callum Smith, and Daniel Jacobs?

You're complaining about fights he had in 2015. Kirkland? He once fought Kirkland, it's true. 6 years ago. Who cares? What about the guys he's fought in the last 2 years?

Like those I have named. Those are not easy style match-ups. BJS is not an easy match-up. A mover, a southpaw, bigger than Canelo. There is a reason he was undefeated. Did you see BJS vs Lemieux? Canelo **** destroyed him. Callum Smith, likewise. Undefeated, straight punches in combo, one of the tallest people possible in the division. Canelo **** destroyed him. Daniel Jacobs. As pedigreed as you can get, much bigger than Canelo. Canelo won 8-4.

But, yeah, he once fought James Kirkland on Boxing After Dark in an brutal, action-packed fight. So, uhh, let's forget about his recent work.

I'll give him credit for facing BJS especially since I was one of those who thought he would never fight him cause I thought he was slick like Lara(Don't get me started on that decision). I actually thought BJS was doing well against Canelo until later in the fight and then the socket punch. But Smith and Jacobs are there to be hit and I don't think anybody would confuse them with being defensive fighters or great counter punchers. And I truly don't know how good Smith is since half the time he never wants to leave the UK therefore limiting the competition he can actually face. I don't get why you're citing height and weight as some significant advantage when for years in boxing we've seen examples of the smaller fighters nullifying that(ex. Jones Jr, Pacquiao, Rigo, Floyd, Ward) because they are simply better fighter.

Reason I keep bringing up the Kirkland fight is because Canelo has basically been known and an A-side since he fought Mayweather so tell me who was begging him to fight Kirkland, Khan, or Chavez Jr, fighters who were not even ranked top 5 in division at the time they fought him and other than Khan since Maidana hadn't beaten anyone of consequence. But yet Canelo himself continually brings up that Andrade(whose been a top 10 ranked middleweight) hasn't beaten anyone so that's why he won't face him. I'll ask you honestly does that make any sense at all? If it's a stupid question let me know and I'll stop asking. And if you don't think Canelo is uncomfortable with Andrade's style, why in his words is he calling him a "horrible fighter"? What does that even mean other than he's worried that he possibly may not out land him and get outboxed. There's a reason that him and Oscar never gave Lara a rematch even though it was a split decision(some thought Lara won).

[cowboyronnie]

He's ducking Andrade to fight Plant, BJS, and Jacobs?? Did you see what Jacobs did to GGG? Lol. You think he should have fought Andrade instead? *You would have then complained he didn't fight Jacobs.*

The man has countless legit, justifiable fights to make. You're basically complaining that he's not fighting them all back to back in the same week. Andrade is simply not a more obvious choice than any of those three fighters, all of whom he will have fought since 2019. Lol. He can't do enough. If we subbd Andrade for any of those three, you'd complain he was ducking that subbed-for guy.

[cowboyronnie]

I have no cinnamon-colored glasses. There is one legit criticism of Canelo, one that should stain his legacy, and that is that he depends massively on PEDs. It's blatant. Focus on that. But the idea that anyone is scared to face Andrade ... it's ridiculous.

[Meeksology]

I'm a licensed professional fight judge. I have pics with all of these guys. I grew up a boxing fan but put my daughter in MMA MMA. She turns 7 in September and just won 1st place in the last 2 tournaments that she was in against older girls and boys and these are the same tournaments the top ufc fighters came up in.

P4P, Mayweather is the most skilled fighter I have ever seen. He literally could do it all. Most casual fans didn't see him until he was old and fighting bigger guys. He was already a hof fighter in his 1st weight class before he ever moved up. In fact I tell people that we never saw the best Mayweather because he moved up to chase money. He could have stayed lower, knock guys his size and smaller out. Then have better names like Barrera and Morales on his resume. They were legends who stood no chance if floyd didn't move up to chase money.

Floyd is small and after his 1st division, he was the smaller guy in nearly every fight. Most times way smaller.. He's basically the only guy in history who took long breaks when he was older, came back, was held to the same standards, and dominanted. Mayweather would take 2 years off while others would get credit if they lost after 6 months off because they weren't active.

Im a boxing fan. Manny is a legend. I've watched him from the jump but even the haters on boxing will tell you that Floyd is arguably the best they have ever seen. No one else can throw a stiff jab, a pull counter, a leeping left, can throw short hard punches in the inside the most beautiful boxer on the outside, high iq, top notch defense, elite chin, etc. Most of you are casuals. I literally know guys at the top of the fight game who don't like Floyd at all and say that he's the best they ever seen

I literally just watched Oscar de lahoya, max Kellerman, Roberto Garcia, etc call pacquiao the greatest fighter of all time. You consider them casuals?

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Stop it bruh. I've literally been around all of those dudes and they have never called Pac the GOAT ever

There's literally youtube vids of it. Don't be upset that these guys don't tell you everything.

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[dlts20]

I literally just watched Oscar de lahoya, max Kellerman, Roberto Garcia, etc call pacquiao the greatest fighter of all time. You consider them casuals?

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Stop it bruh. I've literally been around all of those dudes and they have never called Pac the GOAT ever

There's literally youtube vids of it. Don't be upset that these guys don't tell you everything.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app

No there isn't. That's why you won't post them. Oscar thinks that he's better than Pac. Max favorite fighter ever is Pernell Whittaker. He always says that Roy Jones is the best he's ever seen. He's not picking Pac over them and more. Garcia always gives Floyd his props. I'm not a hater homie. Pac was a monster and a true ATG. I have nothing but the utmost respect to the legend

[Meeksology]

Stop it bruh. I've literally been around all of those dudes and they have never called Pac the GOAT ever

There's literally youtube vids of it. Don't be upset that these guys don't tell you everything.

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No there isn't. That's why you won't post them. Oscar thinks that he's better than Pac. Max favorite fighter ever is Pernell Whittaker. He always says that Roy Jones is the best he's ever seen. He's not picking Pac over them and more. Garcia always gives Floyd his props. I'm not a hater homie. Pac was a monster and a true ATG. I have nothing but the utmost respect to the legend

I'm 41 my guy, I dunno how to post youtube vids on the realgm app. It's there tho, I just searched for them again (u sounded so convincing that I started doubting myself). First one that pops up, "Robert Garcia keeps it 100 says pacquiao is the greatest of all time". Everyone's goat list changes constantly and whut u heard from those guys prolly were true, at the time. Their opinions may have changed again since.

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[dlts20]

There's literally youtube vids of it. Don't be upset that these guys don't tell you everything.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app

No there isn't. That's why you won't post them. Oscar thinks that he's better than Pac. Max favorite fighter ever is Pernell Whittaker. He always says that Roy Jones is the best he's ever seen. He's not picking Pac over them and more. Garcia always gives Floyd his props. I'm not a hater homie. Pac was a monster and a true ATG. I have nothing but the utmost respect to the legend

I'm 41 my guy, I dunno how to post youtube vids on the realgm app. It's there tho, I just searched for them again (u sounded so convincing that I started doubting myself). First one that pops up, "Robert Garcia keeps it 100 says pacquiao is the greatest of all time". Everyone's goat list changes constantly and whut u heard from those guys prolly were true, at the time. Their opinions may have changed again since.

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I'm 41 myself. I won't dispute it. He definitely has a case and if there is 1 guy out of the 3 that would say that, it would have been Garcia