UFC 86: Rampage Vs Forrest

stick · Post #21 » by **stick** » Sun Jul 6, 2008 2:07 pm

Eh, if it was at least a split decision. I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Good for the UFC, they have their golden boy as champion. Must be nice having a champ whose only legit win was over an injured and rookie to the UFC Shogun.

Post #22 » by **CPT** » Sun Jul 6, 2008 3:08 pm

I'm not going to say it's a conspiracy or anything, but the LHW title picture in the UFC may have just become a lot more marketable.

Say Chuck Liddell beats Rashad Evans in early September, which is the most likely outcome, we could see Forrest vs. Liddell as the next title fight, probably on the NYE weekend show. They would have the TUF history, and it gets Dana`s real golden boy back in a championship match in a fresh fight. I actually wouldn`t have much of a problem with this. Chuck would have a win over Silva, and a win over Evans, plus he's a former champ who hasn't had a title shot since.

On the same show, or sometime between now and then, we could see Wanderlei Silva vs. Rampage for the next title shot, against the winner of Forrest/Liddell. I think the UFC would be pretty happy to send out any combination of those 4 guys for a main event title fight; even the ones we've seen before (actually we've seen every combination except Forrest vs. Wandy).

This leaves Machida out in the cold, and while he deserves a shot, or at least to be in the mix, I can't see the UFC trying to sell a Forrest vs. Machida main event (I'd actually like to see that fight more than most Machida fights). Not before cashing in on those other matchups anyway. Maybe give Machida a fight against Jardine or Shogun in the meantime.

SpReEfOrAlL · Post #23 » by **SpReEfOrAlL** » Sun Jul 6, 2008 3:19 pm

dunno if anyone else checks this site http://fightmetric.com/fights/Griffin-Rampage.html but they also have Rampage winning in Pride rules and a draw in the UFC rules. If anything, It's either a draw or a win for Rampage imo. I don't really get it. I guess judges are more impressed with punches in bunches that dont land than a more accurate and powerful display. I thought Rampage clearly won 1, 3, and 4. I believe 5 can be debated for Forrest. Round 2 clearly went to Forrest. Yes Rampage said he lost, but do you expect less from him? He is a classy professional fighter, him getting on the mic and claiming that he was robbed and throwing a fit would be the last thing i expected out of him. There needs to be a rematch, thats a fact. And I would still take Quinton 9 out of 10 times, especially after this fight, where he didnt look his best. He arguably gave up a 10 - 8 round and a solid argument can still be made for him winning this fight. I think that speaks volumes.

Blame Rasho · Post #24 » by **Blame Rasho** » Sun Jul 6, 2008 5:24 pm

SpReEfOrAlL wrote:dunno if anyone else checks this site http://fightmetric.com/fights/Griffin-Rampage.html but they also have Rampage winning in Pride rules and a draw in the UFC rules. If anything, It's either a draw or a win for Rampage imo. I don't really get it. I guess judges are more impressed with punches in bunches that dont land than a more accurate and powerful display. I thought Rampage clearly won 1, 3, and 4. I believe 5 can be debated for Forrest. Round 2 clearly went to Forrest. Yes Rampage said he lost, but do you expect less from him? He is a classy professional fighter, him getting on the mic and claiming that he was robbed and throwing a fit would be the last thing i expected out of him. There needs to be a rematch, thats a fact. And I would still take Quinton 9 out of 10 times, especially after this fight, where he didnt look his best. He arguably gave up a 10 - 8 round and a solid argument can still be made for him winning this fight. I think that speaks volumes.

I think UFC needs to implement those type of stats during the match like Compubox does for boxing fights. They also need to show more replays during the 1 min break.

SpReEfOrAlL · Post #25 » by **SpReEfOrAlL** » Sun Jul 6, 2008 5:30 pm

I just re-watched the fight on mute. i encourage everyone else than can to do this. Its like night and day.

Blame Rasho · Post #26 » by **Blame Rasho** » Sun Jul 6, 2008 5:38 pm

SpReEfOrAlL wrote:I just re-watched the fight on mute. i encourage everyone else than can to do this. Its like night and day.

Like I said the commentary leaves alot to be desired. It is a PPV and you should bring the upmost best people to do the color and play by play. You could tell they were circle jerking over Forrest, that said I don't think it was a clear cut W for Jackson. It was closer than the cards said and I gave a 10-8 round in the 2nd. I guess it just depends on what you value. In boxing there is a thing called, ring generalship and I thought that Forrest controlled the fight by picking his shots significantly better than Jackson. I thought Jackson was too dead set on landing the big shot and never made a significant change into making him fight his type of fight.

Susan · Post #27 » by **Susan** » Sun Jul 6, 2008 6:24 pm

The belt is a joke honestly. I hope we get to see another Rampage/Wand fight. Or Wand/Forrest. Wand would overwhelm Griffin IMO. There's just too many 205ers right now.

SpReEfOrAlL · Post #28 » by **SpReEfOrAlL** » Sun Jul 6, 2008 7:21 pm

I still think Jackson needs the rematch. . . Another point people overlook, in order to take the championship, you have to win in convincing fashion. Something Forrest did not do. Jackson deserves the rematch.

Blame Rasho · Post #29 » by **Blame Rasho** » Sun Jul 6, 2008 7:27 pm

SpReEfOrAlL wrote:I still think Jackson needs the rematch. . . Another point people overlook, in order to take the championship, you have to win in convincing fashion. Something Forrest did not do. Jackson deserves the rematch.

It is a very niche thing to say. You can also say that Jackson didn't do enough to keep his belt.

ansoncarter · Post #30 » by **ansoncarter** » Sun Jul 6, 2008 7:38 pm

SpReEfOrAlL wrote: Yes Rampage said he lost, but do you expect less from him? He is a classy professional fighter, him getting on the mic and claiming that he was robbed and throwing a fit would be the last thing i expected out of him.

but he didn't look surprised whatsoever by the call. Even before that, I got the feeling he actually thought he lost

if it was up to me, he would have won. Because he did more damage

but ufc has never scored it like that

Vik Rude · Post #31 » by **Vik Rude** » Sun Jul 6, 2008 11:07 pm

Blame Rasho wrote:
SpReEfOrAlL wrote:I still think Jackson needs the rematch. . . Another point people overlook, in order to take the championship, you have to win in convincing fashion. Something Forrest did not do. Jackson deserves the rematch.

It is a very niche thing to say. You can also say that Jackson didn't do enough to keep his belt.

Well then wouldn't you say this fight deserved to be a draw? Forrest did great work on Rampage's left leg but Rampage gave Forrest some serious facial work. If Rampage was fighting any other fighter they wouldn't have been able to take those shots like Forrest did.

Blame Rasho · Post #32 » by **Blame Rasho** » Sun Jul 6, 2008 11:19 pm

VCitay wrote:
Blame Rasho wrote:
SpReEfOrAlL wrote:I still think Jackson needs the rematch. . . Another point people overlook, in order to take the championship, you have to win in convincing fashion. Something Forrest did not do. Jackson deserves the rematch.

It is a very niche thing to say. You can also say that Jackson didn't do enough to keep his belt.
Well then wouldn't you say this fight deserved to be a draw? Forrest did great work on Rampage's left leg but Rampage gave Forrest some serious facial work. If Rampage was fighting any other fighter they wouldn't have been able to take those shots like Forrest did.

I thought Forrest won but not by such big margins.

cowboyronnie · Post #33 » by **cowboyronnie** » Mon Jul 7, 2008 1:43 am

Rampage was just throwing looping left/right 1/2s. Forrest won. The triangle, the second round, the leg kicks...

in order to take the championship, you have to win in convincing fashion.

link, please

cowboyronnie · Post #34 » by **cowboyronnie** » Mon Jul 7, 2008 1:45 am

"He whooped my ass" - Quinton Rampage Jackson, July 5th 2008.

The Notic · Post #35 » by **The Notic** » Mon Jul 7, 2008 2:01 am

he was just as humble when he lost to Wand. then he went on to say that Wand was on roids and that PRIDE judges were cheats.

sh00n · Post #36 » by **sh00n** » Mon Jul 7, 2008 4:05 am

cowboyronnie wrote:Rampage was just throwing looping left/right 1/2s. Forrest won. The triangle, the second round, the leg kicks...

+infinite

Everyone who thinks Rampage dominated just rides his jock 24/7. He didn't do **** in that fight. He had a few nice punches and when he picked up Forrest on the Triangle it was hella impressive, but besides that, bleh.

Forrest pressured him the whole fight and he was basically backing away from the start of round 2 to the end of the fight. Forrest destroyed his leg and dictated the pace.

Post #37 » by **Chach** » Mon Jul 7, 2008 4:19 am

In terms of striking, it's a draw for me. I don't think Rampage "clearly" won the first round when Forrest controlled the first 4 minutes and did more damage up to that one punch. If one single punch reverses the entire tide of a round then you all smoke rocks. I'll give Page round 1 but it wasn't like he was cutting Forrest down all round, he connected on one punch and unleashed some fury to finish out the round. That's alot closer than most people made it. After that, Rampage didn't do a whole lot of damage in my opinion. He opened up Forrest but he wasn't bleeding that badly and Forrest opens up at the drop of a hat. Forrest also got a lot of quick strikes in on Rampage and the leg kicks were vicious. To me, that's a draw in that aspect of scoring.

Grapping, Forrest wins easily. He had the takedown/ground and pound in round 2 where Rampage did nothing. Forrest was more aggressive going into the clinch, being more active in the clinch, and when he was taken down in round 4, he was active in his guard and went for a submission attempt. Takedowns are great but if you aren't doing much in it then I personally don't give you as much credit as a guy who is working an opponent who's on the ground or going for submission attempts. The triangle choke cancels out the only +1 in Rampage's grappling ledger.

And in terms of aggression and cage control, Forrest won easily as well. For 22:30, Forrest was pushing the fight and the only one pushing the fight. On these "supposed" damaging punches people have been talking about that Rampage had thrown all night, he only went after Forrest once and that was the first round punch. Everytime Forrest spun out of an exchange and looked like he was stunned/hurt/took a hard shot, Rampage stood his ground and never tried to finish the deal. And he was backpedaling all night until the end of the 5th round when Rampage started to get more aggressive.

It was certainly a close fight and Rampage certainly has a case to have won that decision but if you break it down to how the judges score the fight, Rampage's massive first round punch and single takedown don't outweight the aggressiveness, the submission attempts, the grappling, and the effective but less flashy striking that Forrest displayed all fight. i think the judges made the right call. mahalo
~Chach~

Susan · Post #38 » by **Susan** » Mon Jul 7, 2008 4:49 am

Forrest's striking was hardly effective. His throws were slow and Rampage was able to get outta the way nearly on every exchange. I felt that every time they threw down Rampage was clearly the more effective striker. The triangle was hardly scary considering how freakishly strong Rampage is. If Forrest held on he would have been Aronaed and but he wisely let go of it. In the 2nd round Forrest dominated but at no point was Rampage in danger of losing the fight and his face looked fine post fight.

There's a difference between the ass whupping that Wand put on Rampage and the "asswhupping" that Forrest put on Rampage. If Forrest never did TUF I have no doubt that Rampage would still be champion.

SpReEfOrAlL · Post #39 » by **SpReEfOrAlL** » Mon Jul 7, 2008 3:54 pm

cowboyronnie wrote:"He whooped my ass" - Quinton Rampage Jackson, July 5th 2008.

"I don't see how the judges gave him that fight." - Quinton "Rampage" Jackson, after viewing the fight tape.

Rampage out struck him. Period. Apparently people enjoy watching Forrest throw tons of strikes, landing less than Rampage and landing with a lot less power. If anyone actually thinks that should have been a UD for Forrest then they lost their damn minds. Thats the biggest slap of all. A triangle attempt and leg kicks warrant a win? Look what he did to the guys face. UFC rules alone say its a draw at the very least. The judges got it wrong. Thats what being a golden boy will get you.

And as for your "link please", i guess you just started watching combat sports? If you are gonna adopt a judging system, you take it all. Not just part. And it's a known fact that that is how the 10 point must system works.

Post #40 » by **Headliner** » Mon Jul 7, 2008 4:43 pm

Personally i thought Rampage won, but it was damn close.
Theirs no reason to be upset with the fight because as easily as it could have been one, it could have been the other.
The only real round that seemed to matter was the 2nd and forrest dominated him in it. The next best round was pretty even, but Rampage clearly won round 1. The rest were up in the air and they might as well have been ties.

On another note.
Rumors have it that Rampage wanted to drop the belt anyway, so that he could go do the A-Team movie, where he would make farrrr more money then he could with 6 months of training and a fight.

Oh and Tyson vs Marcus blew.