WWE General Discussion II

[loserX]

I like Asuka a lot but like many talented wrestlers her booking has been pretty abysmal recently. I think at least we can all agree that a match against James Ellsworth is bloody stupid.

[improper]

That being good in the ring thing is kinda important and more than makes up for any negatives, imo. I hate her ring entrance at this point, but I've very much enjoyed watching her performances.

Asuka just works on a different level than basically all the other women in the company. Ember is the only one that comes close to her. Those are the only two women that I think could go toe to toe with some of the more talented men. They just seem to work at a different speed from the other girls.

[LLJ]

I like Asuka a lot but like many talented wrestlers her booking has been pretty abysmal recently. I think at least we can all agree that a match against James Ellsworth is bloody stupid.

It depends where it is going. If they are going to job her again just to lay on even more extra heat for ER it may be a little too much. She still has a lot of crowd support, and they are more loyal than Bayley's were, but you can't keep having her put over the heel in these dumb ways before it damages her with crowds more permanently. If it's just her squashing him it will attract more casuals on her side though because girls beating on guys always gets a cheap pop.

The biggest problem with her booking is that it's schizophrenic. It feels like at times they want to make her the top female on Smackdown, but then they double back, especially on PPVs. We know her english skills is probably an issue for creative, but there are ways to work around it.

The thing is it's hard to push her down the card because she stands out too much. Even in those 10 woman tag matches she stands out like a sore thumb because of the way she carries herself, how obviously foreign she is, and how damn weird she is. She's often the biggest star in any ring full of women so it's very difficult to push other women as standing out more than her. Even Charlotte, who they pushed over Asuka at WM, looks like another woman whenever she's in the ring with 9 other women. This isn't the case with Asuka.

So the WWE is in a conundrum on how to push her. They may want their champion to be better on the mic when it comes to english. But they also realize that she stands out too much for them to push other women as bigger attractions. It happened on RAW too. When they tried to emphasize Nia and Alexa more on the way to WM34, Asuka still stood out too much.

[loserX]

The biggest problem with her booking is that it's schizophrenic. It feels like at times they want to make her the top female on Smackdown, but then they double back, especially on PPVs.

This is it exactly. Her last match was a handicap match where she beat Mandy Rose AND Sonya DeVille.

Her next match is against James Ellsworth. What exactly are they trying to do here?

[LLJ]

That being good in the ring thing is kinda important and more than makes up for any negatives, imo. I hate her ring entrance at this point, but I've very much enjoyed watching her performances.

Asuka just works on a different level than basically all the other women in the company. Ember is the only one that comes close to her. Those are the only two women that I think could go toe to toe with some of the more talented men. They just seem to work at a different speed from the other girls.

Her ring work is obviously something that people point out as being her biggest strength, but I think she stands out moreso because of her physical charisma. She's also weird. She has these strange mannerisms. Which would be a turnoff for many but she gets away with it by being attractive, too. So crowds can't help but notice her. I mean, after she faced Emma at the London Takeover, it was basically another year before she hit her stride in the summer of 2017 with her matches with Nikki Cross and Ember Moon. Her matches in 2016 against Bayley were OK. But she was basically going off charisma for most of 2016.

[Stanford]

Wrestlers to battle James Ellsworth in a single match:

Becky Lynch
Aj Styles
Braun Strowman

Good company

[LLJ]

Wrestlers to battle James Ellsworth in a single match:

Becky Lynch
Aj Styles
Braun Strowman

Good company

Some would say Becky's booking isn't something to aspire to...

But I agree, Ellsworth is often used to get an easy pop and get stars more over somehow. He was used to make AJ a better heel, used to get Braun some easy pops, used to get Becky some rub before he left the company last fall, and it's more likely than not that he is being used to get the crowd on Asuka's side to kick his ass.

[Stanford]

He was used to make AJ a better heel, used to get Braun some easy pops, used to get Becky some rub

Thank you! Ellsworth rocks

[improper]

Her ring work is obviously something that people point out as being her biggest strength, but I think she stands out moreso because of her physical charisma. She's also weird. She has these strange mannerisms. Which would be a turnoff for many but she gets away with it by being attractive, too. So crowds can't help but notice her. I mean, after she faced Emma at the London Takeover, it was basically another year before she hit her stride in the summer of 2017 with her matches with Nikki Cross and Ember Moon. Her matches in 2016 against Bayley were OK. But she was basically going off charisma for most of 2016.

I totally agree that Asuka has a ton of charisma. That's why she's always over wherever she goes. She's just fun to watch and she knows exactly how to work a crowd. She also sells really well for her opponents when she's called to, but can just believably go out and be a wrecking ball of absolute destruction.

Personally, I think her matches just weren't that good early on because the women's division was really weak early on in her title reign. She missed the Four Horsewoman era for the most part, and she was basically the only big name in the division for a lot of her title run. We saw during her match with Charlotte that, when you give her a good opponent and time to work, she puts on great matches. She just didn't have a lot of quality opponents.

[jakecronus8]

Was a huge mistake having Asuka job out at Mania, especially considering they had no real plan for afterwards. Seems like they swerved for no other reason than everyone expected her to go over. Did nothing for Charlotte as she had that short reign where they barely acknowledged her breaking the streak. Charlotte didn't need the win. Asuka did.

I know they're building to a Charlotte/Rousey main event at Mania, but I think there would have been even more appeal with a Rousey/Undefeated Asuka main event. To me if there is one person who may have a small shot versus Rousey shoot wise it's Asuka. If they spent this entire year building her up as the unstoppable undefeated heel, it's more money than a Charlotte program. You can also pretty easily build a match around the armbar vs the Asuka lock and who can get their submission in first.

Maybe their line of thinking is that more casuals will be familiar with Charlotte because of the flair connection (I suspect this is why they started calling her Charlotte Flair rather than just Charlotte in the last 6 months). I think it's just laziness. Worst case, you move Charlotte back to Raw and have her go on a big run while Asuka dominates Smackdown. Then do a big title unification match at Mania.

[Stanford]

Was a huge mistake having Asuka job out at Mania

Does job out just mean lose?

[jakecronus8]

Was a huge mistake having Asuka job out at Mania

Does job out just mean lose?

Yes. That's what that means.

[improper]

Was a huge mistake having Asuka job out at Mania

Does job out just mean lose?

"Do the job" is wrestling slang for eating a loss, so yup.

Although it is typically used to refer to squash losses, I think it can apply to regular losses as well, especially if they completely derail a character's momentum like Asuka's loss did.

[Stanford]

lthough it is typically used to refer to squash losses, I think it can apply to regular losses as well

I consider it a negative term.

There's a loser in every match. Someone has to do it.

[improper]

lthough it is typically used to refer to squash losses, I think it can apply to regular losses as well

I consider it a negative term.

There's a loser in every match. Someone has to do it.

Probably why they refer to it as doing the job.

But some losses matter more than others. Charlotte gained nothing by beating Asuka, especially since they had Carmella of all people beat her clean shortly after. For Asuka, it completely derailed her momentum. The fact that they made her look like an absolute idiot against Carmella certainly didn't help either.

But this is what WWE does. They take star-caliber performers and make them look like just another guy (or girl in this instance). There are probably three dozen people on the main roster who could be stars, but the booking makes them all look like everyone else.

It's why I basically never watch Raw and Smackdown unless they announce a match I've really interested in (like that Smackdown gauntlet match, which you just knew was going to be good). If you discount the Raw/Smackdown after Mania, I think that Smackdown with the gauntlet match was the first time I've watched either show.

[Dominator83]

Was a huge mistake having Asuka job out at Mania

Does job out just mean lose?

"Do the job" is wrestling slang for eating a loss, so yup.

Although it is typically used to refer to squash losses, I think it can apply to regular losses as well, especially if they completely derail a character's momentum like Asuka's loss did.

Especially when that Asuka loss did nothing to elevate Charloette either. How do you have her beat the unbeatable Asuka, then follow it up by having her drop the belt to the weak Carmella? Carmella is a homeless mans Alexa

[LLJ]

My guess is that the WWE believes most people won't remember that Charlotte jobbed to Carmella 9-10 months from now on a B-PPV, so they figure eh, why not use her to elevate Carmella in the short term. They'll just remember that she beat Asuka at WM34, and so they can see why will be main eventing WM35 with Ronda.

I also believe ending Asuka's streak at WM34 was the right call in terms of timing and the person who ended it. If not Charlotte then who? And plus you can't have Asuka winning every tag match she's in as counting in the streak, either. That makes things tough to book for.

The biggest worry is what would happen after. The streak was Asuka's main protection and we know this company is sort of hot and cold with pushing foreigners. Still, her popularity has remained strong despite the streak being over so we at least know her character has durability beyond just being "the streak". Which was beginning to define her too much, imo.

That said, I think this Carmella-Ellsworth-Asuka feud needs to play out more. The MITB finish I can chalk up to bad execution rather than maliciousness...god knows this company can even screw up the people they like as well. Look at the whole Lashley-Sami feud...that was actually a sincere attempt to get Bobby over.

[improper]

Personally, I think it should have either been Rousey at WM35 or Ember to be the one to earn the streak. Building to Rousey/Asuka would have been the biggest WWE women's match in history, bigger than Charlotte/Rousey will be simply because Asuka has more credibility and a long career. Building to Ember/Asuka would have been a good story about how Ember couldn't get the job done before, and you could highlight their history in NXT where Asuka had to cheat to win.

[LLJ]

I think the streak couldn't have lasted another year without getting tiring for fans. By WM34 it was already getting rickety. It worked on NXT because they didn't harp on it as much and Asuka maybe appeared once or twice a month. On the main roster she appears nearly every week.

Charlotte-Ronda is the safe WM35 match because Charlotte can build the match better promo wise plus the "Flair" name resonates better with the public. Now, Charlotte may not be as popular within the WWE universe (One could argue Becky, Naomi and Asuka can all get stronger babyface crowd reactions than Charlotte at times) but ask somebody who doesn't follow wrestling and the "Flair" name will resonate more. And Wrestlemania is more aimed at those people. Asuka would probably put on a better match, yes, but the WWE wants hype people who can go on talk shows and do interviews hyping the match. Obviously Asuka is limited on that front.

I suspect the plan may be Asuka vs Ronda at Survivor Series instead.

I've no idea how invested they are on Ember on RAW right now. The RAW women's division seems basically an afterthought outside of those involved with the Ronda stuff.

[improper]

I've no idea how invested they are on Ember on RAW right now. The RAW women's division seems basically an afterthought outside of those involved with the Ronda stuff.

Let's be honest...Ember is the wrong color to get anything other than a "time served" title reign like Naomi got.

She's the most talented female wrestler on Raw, but it won't matter. She'll get a title reign or two if she's lucky but that's it.