Will Simon's quietly request a trade?

[drsd]

Orlando fan here:

A little on how the Magic RealGMers see this. There are two camps. Camp 1: Orlando needs an ace PG and would keep Suggs as the SG: example is Dejounte Murray. And Camp 2 (I am in this camp): shift Suggs to starting PG and bring in a volume scorer as a starting SG. Simons is that sort of player. He was literally named after the Magic, after all. So maybe it is destiny to be a Magician.

This is an interesting thread to see what Portland fans see as Anfernee's value.

Simons could be a 25 ppg non All-Star in ORL…Crawford played a bit differently, but that’s a good comp, imo.

All I care about personally is more picks, and maybe try to squeeze Wendell carter out of them.

The Magic is flush with picks, as in addition to the #18 this year, the Magic own their pick and the Denver FRP next year. And all their FRPs of their future (and a lot of SRPs also). It would be easy to assemble a larger package between Portland and Orlando that also include 2 or 3 FRPs, and an unlimited number of SRPs.

As to Carter, be careful what you wish for. Carter's career high in games played per season is 62. Carter AVERAGES missing 29.5 games per season.

Looked at the Magic situation and they don't have a ton of guys to trade for Ant for salaries to match up. Would need another team to get involved.

Cole Anthony & Joe Ingles (Magic need to exercise option) for Ant works.

Orlando will be under the cap, as Fultz, Okeke, and G-Harris are all expiring. Indeed, the Magic must find 30M+ in contracts this off-season to make the floor of the cap. Orlando is a buyer this off-season.

I'm also in the camp of a Simons--Black swap. I don't see how it could possibly be done though because of salary matching.

Personally I see a straight trade of Simons for Black to strongly favor the Magic in an asset management consideration. And yes, the Magic can absorb this trade. I bet the Blazers could even squeeze in the #18 if a (decent) Portland bench player was thrown in to the deal.

Skybox, what is Orlando's temperature on Black right now? Would some kind of Black-Simons swap make sense for where Orlando is headed? Agreed he'd be basically perfect there...

Some in Orlando see Black as untradeable. I am not one of those folks. Right now, Black will be a bench player in the 2024/25 season. It is not OK that the Magic drafted at #6 for a bench player. For me, I actually think he needs to be moved. He is not a fit. MANY (most) in the Magic realGM board would strongly dispute this thought line though.

[cdubbz]

Orlando fan here:

A little on how the Magic RealGMers see this. There are two camps. Camp 1: Orlando needs an ace PG and would keep Suggs as the SG: example is Dejounte Murray. And Camp 2 (I am in this camp): shift Suggs to starting PG and bring in a volume scorer as a starting SG. Simons is that sort of player. He was literally named after the Magic, after all. So maybe it is destiny to be a Magician.

This is an interesting thread to see what Portland fans see as Anfernee's value.

Looked at the Magic situation and they don't have a ton of guys to trade for Ant for salaries to match up. Would need another team to get involved.

Cole Anthony & Joe Ingles (Magic need to exercise option) for Ant works.

Orlando will be under the cap, as Fultz, Okeke, and G-Harris are all expiring. Indeed, the Magic must find 30M+ in contracts this off-season to make the floor of the cap. Orlando is a buyer this off-season.

Skybox, what is Orlando's temperature on Black right now? Would some kind of Black-Simons swap make sense for where Orlando is headed? Agreed he'd be basically perfect there...

Some in Orlando see Black as untradeable. I am not one of those folks. Right now, Black will be a bench player in the 2024/25 season. It is not OK that the Magic drafted at #6 for a bench player. For me, I actually think he needs to be moved. He is not a fit. MANY (most) in the Magic realGM board would strongly dispute this thought line though.

Thanks for the responses and point of view! Big fan of the roster build and ive been a Cole Anthony fan, love watching Banchero, Franz & Suggs is a nice compliment .

As for the two camps the Magic fans seem to be on - I would have to go with camp 1 and look for an ace PG as well as veteran leadership. I havent watched Suggs all that much in the NBA, but know his game from Gonzaga but do you think he can take on full PG duties for a playoff team? Blazers have both a scoring guard and a veteran guard in Brogdon and Ant for your option 2.

This is off topic - but who are some free agent targets from the Magic? As a Western conference fan of Warriors and Blazers I'm curious to see the level of interest for Malik Monk of the Kings and Klay Thompson. Stealing Monk from the Kings will be a huge blow to them. Offering Klay a big contract i cant see, but those are the rumors.

[drsd]

As for the two camps the Magic fans seem to be on - I would have to go with camp 1 and look for an ace PG as well as veteran leadership. I havent watched Suggs all that much in the NBA, but know his game from Gonzaga but do you think he can take on full PG duties for a playoff team? Blazers have both a scoring guard and a veteran guard in Brogdon and Ant for your option 2.

This year, Banchero and F-Wagner have been the primary ball handlers.

This is off topic - but who are some free agent targets from the Magic? As a Western conference fan of Warriors and Blazers I'm curious to see the level of interest for Malik Monk of the Kings and Klay Thompson. Stealing Monk from the Kings will be a huge blow to them. Offering Klay a big contract i cant see, but those are the rumors.

This is Orlando's roster next season before any new assets are brought in

xxxxx/Anthony/Black
Suggs/xxxxx/Howard
F-Wagner/xxxxx/Houstan
Banchero/Isaac/xxxxx
Carter/xxxxx/xxxxx

xxxxx = the Magic holds a team option on Ingles. He will be picked up unless the Magic need the 11M in salary for another deal
xxxxx = the Magic holds a team option on M-Wagner. He will be picked up. Bank that.

So, Orlando must find a starting guard, a bench guard, and a couple deep-bench front court players. That's the off-season for Orlando. It's actually a fairly stable roster going to next year.

And THANK GOD, Fultz and Okeke will be gone.



To answer your question: 100% of Magic fans love Monk and would offer "anything" outside of Suggs, Banchero and F-Wagner for him. Thompson is a mixed bag for our feelings. His shooting would be nice, but not on three-year 100M deal.

[Norm2953]

Simons for Black just seems like a no brainer deal for everyone.

Just work out the details for including a Portland bench player for Black + 18 would be fine
for Portland has a bunch of similar players like Murray to include in the deal but Portland
already has two FRP in the 2024 draft and would prefer one of the 2025 picks instead

[monopoman]

Even if Simons doesn't request a trade I could imagine him being traded in many scenarios, especially since some other teams would value him more than we do.

[Pattycakes]

Simons for Black just seems like a no brainer deal for everyone.

Just work out the details for including a Portland bench player for Black + 18 would be fine
for Portland has a bunch of similar players like Murray to include in the deal but Portland
already has two FRP in the 2024 draft and would prefer one of the 2025 picks instead

As in no brain being used for the Portland side?

Yuck no thank you let him be a bust for someone else

[BlazersBroncos]

Simons for Black just seems like a no brainer deal for everyone.

Just work out the details for including a Portland bench player for Black + 18 would be fine
for Portland has a bunch of similar players like Murray to include in the deal but Portland
already has two FRP in the 2024 draft and would prefer one of the 2025 picks instead

As in no brain being used for the Portland side?

Yuck no thank you let him be a bust for someone else

Black is a talent. He at minimum will be an above average defender for someone for years to come. His advanced metrics defensively are very good, especially for a player his age. He isnt going to be a 20ppg guy, but a do-it-all connector piece - which is arguably exactly what we need at SF assuming Scoot and Sharpe improve and demand high usage.

Simons for Black would be a great trade for both teams. It fits the directions perfectly.

FWIW - I think I would take Black above anyone in this draft, but I hate the top talent in this draft.

[Norm2953]

Black is a poor fit on the offensively challenged Magic but might be a good fit as a secondary
ball handler with the size to matchup defensively on the perimeter.

No question he would be a top 5 pick in the 2024 draft

[Ducklett]

Magic fan here. Been asking to trade for Simons since you guys took him at 24 or whatever. I would be happy to pass a pick or two at you guys for Simons but I wouldnt be passing AB. Black was on a really tight leash and showed very well when given opportunity. I believe our 9 game win streak featured him as our starting PG. I am not ready to give up on him yet.

[Walton1one]

I think Simons to ORL makes some sense, the problem is they have a lot of UFA this offseason and outside of Black not a ton else that is appealing.

You could do something like: Simons to ORL for Isaac a 25' 1st round Pick (ORL) & a 26' 2nd via DET\MIL, seems a little light to me however.

Maybe ORL adding a 2nd 1st round pick (28' or 30'') or POR offloading Thybulle and getting Carter Jr back.

[zzaj]

Magic fan here. Been asking to trade for Simons since you guys took him at 24 or whatever. I would be happy to pass a pick or two at you guys for Simons but I wouldnt be passing AB. Black was on a really tight leash and showed very well when given opportunity. I believe our 9 game win streak featured him as our starting PG. I am not ready to give up on him yet.

If you were to offer two picks, what would they be?

[JasonStern]

Simons is underrated on this board. He's a solid 20+ ppg scorer. A smaller Jamal Crawford comparison is valid. He can play the point, but doesn't excel at it. And he can defend SGs, but he also doesn't excel at it. His contract is reasonable given his production. And he's only 24 years old.

Moving Simons for Black might make sense in some Orlando wants to win now, Portland is still rebuilding sense. But you're still trading a combo guard for another point guard. Trading Simons for future picks makes little sense as well, as the Blazers already have a ton of draft capital and there are only 15 roster spots (in before two way contracts - but virtually none of those players tend to be starter tier during their careers).

[zzaj]

Simons is underrated on this board. He's a solid 20+ ppg scorer. A smaller Jamal Crawford comparison is valid. He can play the point, but doesn't excel at it. And he can defend SGs, but he also doesn't excel at it. His contract is reasonable given his production. And he's only 24 years old.

Moving Simons for Black might make sense in some Orlando wants to win now, Portland is still rebuilding sense. But you're still trading a combo guard for another point guard. Trading Simons for future picks makes little sense as well, as the Blazers already have a ton of draft capital and there are only 15 roster spots (in before two way contracts - but virtually none of those players tend to be starter tier during their careers).

I'd agree that Simons is probably underrated on this board, but we've also not heard about any teams banging on Cronin's door begging to take Simons off his hands. I think there is some truth to the idea that undersized SG point-getters have less value league-wide than other player types.

I don't think it's fair to say "you're still trading a combo guard for another point guard'. Black has played PG/SG/SF (albeit very little SF) and has shown the BBIQ, size and quick feet to be good at defending all 3. That's a marked advantage over Simons.

As for the draft picks, I imagine the Blazers wouldn't trade Simons straight across for draft picks, but it's at least interesting to use as a gauge for value. Orlando (as an example) has a ton of picks in future years so that wouldn't necessarily impact the roster next year. If Orlando were to offer up say, a future unprotected 1st, a protected 1st, and a couple of seconds, the Blazers (IMO) should at least consider that deal given where they are at in the rebuild.

[HoopsFanAZ]

Though I watched videos of Black prior to last year's draft, he wasn't much on my radar due to pick range and the Dame situation. He didn't look like a reasonable answer. A year later and I'm pretty settled on Scoot as the soon-to-be-better than Ant at PG and Sharpe as the quality starter at SG. No slight intended on Ant as I'm higher on the other two.

AB with his size and D want-to looks like a good fit. As a draftee, he wasn't BPA. That was Scoot. In trade, add in the #18 and get some dollars off the team salary. It's a WIN for Orlando without sacrificing their core or future picks. And they're not exactly a TOP free agency market, either.

They are ready to win now with Ant -- not a top contender, but a legit team for the first time in a long time. The Magic has time to ramp up AB with their youth, but I don't know how patient they'll be. It is a solution I'm a fan of for both teams.

Would the Blazers use all 3 1st rounders in a sub-par draft ... especially when there's some fairly legit, reasonable chatter at only keeping the higher pick? Package 2 to move up?
I'm up for using all 3. Or a package. It's all about Improve the talent level. Period.

[Walton1one]

Simons is underrated on this board. He's a solid 20+ ppg scorer. A smaller Jamal Crawford comparison is valid. He can play the point, but doesn't excel at it. And he can defend SGs, but he also doesn't excel at it. His contract is reasonable given his production. And he's only 24 years old.

Moving Simons for Black might make sense in some Orlando wants to win now, Portland is still rebuilding sense. But you're still trading a combo guard for another point guard. Trading Simons for future picks makes little sense as well, as the Blazers already have a ton of draft capital and there are only 15 roster spots (in before two way contracts - but virtually none of those players tend to be starter tier during their careers).

I don't think he is that underrated though, he is a guy who can score, but does not provide a ton else IMO. Also, fit wise he is not a good fit with Scoot, who needs the ball in his hands. I don't like the fit, size wise either, 2 smaller guards has never worked out well for POR.

I thought Scoot (& Ayton) looked much better the last month of the season, common denominator? Simons was out.

I think if you are going to really see what you have in Scoot, then you need to have the ball in his hands and surround him with talented shooters\scorers.

As for POR not needing any more picks, roster spots etc... I disagree, POR needs more\better talent first and foremost, there are too few players on this team who looking at now you can say, yeah they will be part of the core team making a run for the playoffs in the next 2-3 years. I think Blazers Edge did an article about that and was pretty spot on.

You don't know yet, what you have in Scoot or Sharpe

You have a couple of raw players that are even further than Scoot\Sharpe before you know what you have, Rupert\Murray, neither are untouchable

You have a couple of players who have shown they can possibly be rotation players, Walker\Camara, certainly not untouchable

Other than that, a bunch of vets, making a ton of money and contributing little\nothing to winning, Ayton\Williams\Simons are all still fairly young, but Williams can't stay healthy (get him healthy, play him w\bubble wrap and then deal him) and Simons is just not a good fit IMO, may want out? I like Ayton, yep he is overpaid, has questionable effort sometimes, but is still young & very talented, but if you feed him, he can put up points, and he stays healthy (so far). You play out his contract and see where you are when that happens.

Brogdon\Thybulle\Grant - Brogdon has 1yr left, deal him or likely lose him for nothing, Thybulle has 2yrs, fairly inexpensive, much better for a vet team than a young team, better to give those minutes to Camara\Murray (or this years' draft pick), he isn't moving the needle for POR. Grant is a good player, best probably as 3rd/4th player on a vet team, not as #1 option on a lottery team. None of these guys are worth keeping.

Hopefully POR will be adding 2-4 new young players this year to that mix. POR needs to keep swinging in the draft for talent, they have good talent evaluators it seems, then see who rises to the top and then build on from there. There are just not a lot of players on this team right now that you go, oh yeah he is going to be a core piece moving forward, let alone a "franchise star" level player. maybe Scoot\Sharpe get there, maybe they just are good NBA rotation players, either way POR should keep stockpiling picks\young players until they find that\those guys, just like OKC did.

[JRoy]

Bubblewrap Williams is a great name.

[Walton1one]

[Blazinaway]

Simons is underrated on this board. He's a solid 20+ ppg scorer. A smaller Jamal Crawford comparison is valid. He can play the point, but doesn't excel at it. And he can defend SGs, but he also doesn't excel at it. His contract is reasonable given his production. And he's only 24 years old.

Moving Simons for Black might make sense in some Orlando wants to win now, Portland is still rebuilding sense. But you're still trading a combo guard for another point guard. Trading Simons for future picks makes little sense as well, as the Blazers already have a ton of draft capital and there are only 15 roster spots (in before two way contracts - but virtually none of those players tend to be starter tier during their careers).

I don't think he is that underrated though, he is a guy who can score, but does not provide a ton else IMO. Also, fit wise he is not a good fit with Scoot, who needs the ball in his hands. I don't like the fit, size wise either, 2 smaller guards has never worked out well for POR.

I thought Scoot (& Ayton) looked much better the last month of the season, common denominator? Simons was out.

I think if you are going to really see what you have in Scoot, then you need to have the ball in his hands and surround him with talented shooters\scorers.

As for POR not needing any more picks, roster spots etc... I disagree, POR needs more\better talent first and foremost, there are too few players on this team who looking at now you can say, yeah they will be part of the core team making a run for the playoffs in the next 2-3 years. I think Blazers Edge did an article about that and was pretty spot on.

You don't know yet, what you have in Scoot or Sharpe

You have a couple of raw players that are even further than Scoot\Sharpe before you know what you have, Rupert\Murray, neither are untouchable

You have a couple of players who have shown they can possibly be rotation players, Walker\Camara, certainly not untouchable

Other than that, a bunch of vets, making a ton of money and contributing little\nothing to winning, Ayton\Williams\Simons are all still fairly young, but Williams can't stay healthy (get him healthy, play him w\bubble wrap and then deal him) and Simons is just not a good fit IMO, may want out? I like Ayton, yep he is overpaid, has questionable effort sometimes, but is still young & very talented, but if you feed him, he can put up points, and he stays healthy (so far). You play out his contract and see where you are when that happens.

Brogdon\Thybulle\Grant - Brogdon has 1yr left, deal him or likely lose him for nothing, Thybulle has 2yrs, fairly inexpensive, much better for a vet team than a young team, better to give those minutes to Camara\Murray (or this years' draft pick), he isn't moving the needle for POR. Grant is a good player, best probably as 3rd/4th player on a vet team, not as #1 option on a lottery team. None of these guys are worth keeping.

Hopefully POR will be adding 2-4 new young players this year to that mix. POR needs to keep swinging in the draft for talent, they have good talent evaluators it seems, then see who rises to the top and then build on from there. There are just not a lot of players on this team right now that you go, oh yeah he is going to be a core piece moving forward, let alone a "franchise star" level player. maybe Scoot\Sharpe get there, maybe they just are good NBA rotation players, either way POR should keep stockpiling picks\young players until they find that\those guys, just like OKC did.

well said, fully agree

[cdubbz]

either way POR should keep stockpiling picks\young players until they find that\those guys, just like OKC did.

I prefer this approach from teams rebuilding versus the salvage what we have and ‘retool’. It’s a tried and true method. Just needs patience’s, luck, and REALLY good scouts. I can’t wait to see if the Blazers go all in on this where they trade vets for expirings and have a roster of young guys and DA

Other than OKC what other teams have stockpiled draft picks and assets and became good?
- Celtics are perfect example currently.
- Warriors in late 2000s and early 2010s.
- Magic currently.
- Kings - Fox, Haliburton, Keegan, Ellis. Not bad.

[monopoman]

Magic fan here. Been asking to trade for Simons since you guys took him at 24 or whatever. I would be happy to pass a pick or two at you guys for Simons but I wouldnt be passing AB. Black was on a really tight leash and showed very well when given opportunity. I believe our 9 game win streak featured him as our starting PG. I am not ready to give up on him yet.

Draft position means jack **** buddy, Jokic was taken 41st pick in the 2nd round and only like 1-2 guys in the entire NBA might be more valuable. Most fans would be jumping for joy at nearly any trade that sent Jokic to their team.

If you think your player is worth keeping that's fine but don't throw around draft position as meaning anything. Plenty of guys were drafted in the top 5 and became HUGE busts plenty of guys were drafted late and became easy Hall of Fame players like Ginobli, and Jokic. Sure more great players are found in the top 5 picks of the draft, but again after the draft is over and you see what a player can do on the court no one cares when they were drafted.