Jan 16: Cavs @ Blazers - 7PM on KGW

[Epicurus]

I suppose a claim repeated often becomes true. In this case, the "running the starters into the ground..." If one checks, one sees that other teams have players going more the 35 minutes per game. Some of the leagues's best players have higher minutes per game than any of the Blazers. Now, the difference with the Blazers is that they have four guys at 35-40 mark. Other teams at most have two. My point is if one guy can do it, why can't three or four, without "being run to the ground." Some of this year's pts per minute leaders have been so for several years now and are still very productive.

I first watched the NBA when Sweet Water Clifton came into the league. I watched in person about 30 Cincinnati Royal game per year. Oscar was never off the court unless he had fould trouble, and even then he was angered to be taken out. He averaged over 40 minutes per game for his whloe time in Cincy. The same with other stars both on the Royals and for the opponents. The game was more fast paced then, but not as physical. The transportation between cities was considerably worse. The training regimes were not as advanced.

BTW, LA is averaging the same minutes now as hhe has for the last several years. It isn't the time of the starters that is problemmatic,, but the immense dropoff when they sit. No lift from the bench is expected or can be expected. Thus more pressure on the starters and thus the tendency to try to do too much (more of the problem than their time on court).

[Epicurus]

You know you're at the bottom of the barrel when you're having to choose between Ronnie Price and Nolan Smith.

And to have folks so strongly prefer at one time or another one over the other, when a coin flip promises just as good results.

[fishnc]

You know you're at the bottom of the barrel when you're having to choose between Ronnie Price and Nolan Smith.

And to have folks so strongly prefer at one time or another one over the other, when a coin flip promises just as good results.

I'm not sure what kind of coin you're flipping but Price is always the better choice.

[zzaj]

I had a long conversation quite a few years back with a retired NBA player (Darren Morningstar from Stevenson, WA). He said that the hardest things about being in the NBA were the travel and how much that takes a toll on you mentally, being expected to perform when your body is in a constant state of fatigue and constantly being away from family. Of course we are talking Darren Morninstar, FWIW.

We also just saw a particularly tough part of the season. The Blazers came off of back to back 5 games in 7 nights scenarios (with only two days off in between). At quick glance, there is only 1 of those remaining in the schedule...

Also, the last 6 days of the season look tough: 4 games against OKC/DEN/LAC/GSW.

[Epicurus]

You know you're at the bottom of the barrel when you're having to choose between Ronnie Price and Nolan Smith.

And to have folks so strongly prefer at one time or another one over the other, when a coin flip promises just as good results.

I'm not sure what kind of coin you're flipping but Price is always the better choice.

Ah, the better poison. Not quite so certain about your claim. Smith actually drives and finishes at the rim better. Neither contribute much (anything) however, but Smith has not really shown worthless over many campaigns, as has Price, and thus there is at least a small glimmer of hope that Smith MAY someday be a contributor. No such hope really exist for Price. Now having said this, I now go back to the flip of the coin.

[Wizenheimer]

Ah, the better poison. Not quite so certain about your claim. Smith actually drives and finishes at the rim better. Neither contribute much (anything) however, but Smith has not really shown worthless over many campaigns, as has Price, and thus there is at least a small glimmer of hope that Smith MAY someday be a contributor. No such hope really exist for Price. Now having said this, I now go back to the flip of the coin.

what was needed last night was defense at the point against Irving. And that was no mystery before the game even started

and whatever your opinion on the relative offensive merits between Price and Smith, there is NO doubt at all which player is the better defender. That has been easily seen by observation.

there is even some statistical evidence for it. The Blazers as a team have a defensive rating of 106.9. Price has an individual defensive rating of 107, or just about the same as the team. Smith, on the other hand, has a rating of 112, the worst on the team. Having paid attention to this differential over the years, I can categorically say that a player possessing a rating more then 5 points worse to his team defines the word suck. That's bad, and sometimes bad is really, really bad

by the way, as to who is better on the offensive end:

assists/36: Price 5.0....Smith 5.0
turnovers/36: Price 2.5....Smith 3.8
PER: Price 6.8....Smith 3.0
TS%: Price .396....Smith .368
WinShares/48: Price -0.012....Smith -0.146


it's true, they both stink. And to embellish the metaphor: Overpowering stench. But while Price's stench may induce vomiting, Smith's may cause coma

[Epicurus]

I don't doubt the comparative levels of stinktatude you present. Yet, as I said, Smith has not yet had the opportunity that Price has had to establish that stink is the only possible evaluation for a career. I think he will and is well on his way of so establishing. Yet, in fairness, not yet.

Part of the mission of this season is to see what young players on the squad can do in game situations, isn't it? Yes, that may mean at times not having what may offer a greater probability of a win. But as far as last night, it was good to see how much, if at all, DL has improved defensively v. a good NBA PG and if Smith is finally up to the task defensively and offensively. The objective of this season is to contribute to the building of a contender (that means more than just working to be a playoff team and doing whatever contributes to that).

[Wizenheimer]

I don't doubt the comparative levels of stinktatude you present. Yet, as I said, Smith has not yet had the opportunity that Price has had to establish that stink is the only possible evaluation for a career. I think he will and is well on his way of so establishing. Yet, in fairness, not yet.

Part of the mission of this season is to see what young players on the squad can do in game situations, isn't it? Yes, that may mean at times not having what may offer a greater probability of a win. But as far as last night, it was good to see how much, if at all, DL has improved defensively v. a good NBA PG and if Smith is finally up to the task defensively and offensively. The objective of this season is to contribute to the building of a contender (that means more than just working to be a playoff team and doing whatever contributes to that).

nope...don't agree

that's because I do not think...for a single second....there is any question about Smith's abilities. They are known. He's had enough opportunity and he has shown not one bit of improvement. He's not going to magically find his basketball muse.

for chrissakes he can't even contribute to a lottery team, how is he going to contribute to a contender?

His minimum salary next season will be 900K. The minimum for a 2nd round pick or a first year player will be 490K...the same as a roster charge, and about half what Smith will make, assuming he's even in the league, which I'd doubt

IMO, the only reason he's still on the roster is because he had a guaranteed salary and could be trade filler. I would not be surprised to see him waived after the trade deadline if some other scrub PG is available for 10-day contracts

as a matter of fact, that would be smart. The Blazers could audition 3rd string PG's prior to the summer

[Epicurus]

It must be nice to be so certain. I share your sense of Smith's future, but just not your certainty. I am certain that Price isn't, hasn't been, and won't be a contributor in the NBA. He has more than enough time to show differently and hasn't in any year. His present adjusted winscores (or anyother general metric) remains locked into severe noncontributor. Let me expand--now Smiith is a minus 5 (let's say on some arbitrary scale) and Price is a minus 4. The expectancy of Price being a 4 or less is perfect, say a 5; whereas the liklihood of Smith being a -5 or even a minus 4 is a 4. That suggests the coinflip or even siding lightly to the Smith side.

Personally I would like to find a package acceptable to Dallas that would get the dognoused Beaubois back into Stotts' offense and get rid of both.

[Wizenheimer]

It must be nice to be so certain. I share your sense of Smith's future, but just not your certainty. I am certain that Price isn't, hasn't been, and won't be a contributor in the NBA. He has more than enough time to show differently and hasn't in any year. His present adjusted winscores (or anyother general metric) remains locked into severe noncontributor. Let me expand--now Smiith is a minus 5 (let's say on some arbitrary scale) and Price is a minus 4. The expectancy of Price being a 4 or less is perfect, say a 5; whereas the liklihood of Smith being a -5 or even a minus 4 is a 4. That suggests the coinflip or even siding lightly to the Smith side.

Personally I would like to find a package acceptable to Dallas that would get the dognoused Beaubois back into Stotts' offense and get rid of both.

there's no point in making posts that say something like: "Nolan sucks, no he doesn't, he has, but he might not forever, but he might, I don't know and neither do you...maybe"

might as well have some confidence in my opinion. I've been wrong before but just like a jumpshooter, a prior miss won't bother me once I'm in shooting position again with the ball. bombs away

as far as what you're saying, let me remind you, my initial post was pretty specific: I said Price should have been defending Irving rather then Smith. It wasn't any weighing of the overall value of Price or Smith. Just that last night, the thing Price obviously does better then Smith, was what was needed from the backup PG

it was a real strange decision for Stotts to pick the Cleveland game as the one to move Smith to 2nd PG and Price to 3rd. And by "real strange" I mean stupid. Yes, that's more certainty...

[Epicurus]

And the certainty is certainly unwarranted. Mostly it is a form of the "is, must be forever" fallacy.

[Wizenheimer]

And the certainty is certainly unwarranted. Mostly it is a form of the "is, must be forever" fallacy.

there's no there there, but I figured out who you are!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxtN0xxzfsw[/youtube]

[Caravaggio]

I don't doubt the comparative levels of stinktatude you present. Yet, as I said, Smith has not yet had the opportunity that Price has had to establish that stink is the only possible evaluation for a career. I think he will and is well on his way of so establishing. Yet, in fairness, not yet.

Part of the mission of this season is to see what young players on the squad can do in game situations, isn't it? Yes, that may mean at times not having what may offer a greater probability of a win. But as far as last night, it was good to see how much, if at all, DL has improved defensively v. a good NBA PG and if Smith is finally up to the task defensively and offensively. The objective of this season is to contribute to the building of a contender (that means more than just working to be a playoff team and doing whatever contributes to that).

What are you even arguing? Do you think Smith is a better defender? Do you disagree that leaving/putting Price on Irving would have been a wise move given the option of Smith or Price?

[Epicurus]

And the certainty is certainly unwarranted. Mostly it is a form of the "is, must be forever" fallacy.

there's no there there, but I figured out who you are!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxtN0xxzfsw[/youtube]

Thank you! Have you ever been confused for a talented person?

[Wizenheimer]

And the certainty is certainly unwarranted. Mostly it is a form of the "is, must be forever" fallacy.

there's no there there, but I figured out who you are!


Thank you! Have you ever been confused for a talented person?

define talent

[Epicurus]

I don't doubt the comparative levels of stinktatude you present. Yet, as I said, Smith has not yet had the opportunity that Price has had to establish that stink is the only possible evaluation for a career. I think he will and is well on his way of so establishing. Yet, in fairness, not yet.

Part of the mission of this season is to see what young players on the squad can do in game situations, isn't it? Yes, that may mean at times not having what may offer a greater probability of a win. But as far as last night, it was good to see how much, if at all, DL has improved defensively v. a good NBA PG and if Smith is finally up to the task defensively and offensively. The objective of this season is to contribute to the building of a contender (that means more than just working to be a playoff team and doing whatever contributes to that).

What are you even arguing? Do you think Smith is a better defender? Do you disagree that leaving/putting Price on Irving would have been a wise move given the option of Smith or Price?

I am saying that Stotts knows exactly what he has in Price, but needs to find out more definitively what he has in Smith under various situations. Further I doubt if Price, generally heretofore the better defender, would have had any better results on Irving last night than either Smith or Lilliard. You ask your question as if opening and closing statements above didn't exist.

[Epicurus]

there's no there there, but I figured out who you are!


Thank you! Have you ever been confused for a talented person?

define talent

At minimum, one who knows that dictionaries exist.

[Sabzi]

Lol Damian was embarrassed by Kyrie and Stotts bashing ensues.

[Caravaggio]

Lol Damian was embarrassed by Kyrie and Stotts bashing ensues.

Stotts has control of many things. Damian has his faults, some of which are outside of his control. Damiam also has a great deal of positives.

[Wizenheimer]

define talent

At minimum, one who knows that dictionaries exist.

I don't need a dictionary to know what pompous means, or who has been been demonstrating that quality in this thread

again, this is pretty simple: it was a narrow discussion about the efficacy (found in dictionary) of using Price or Smith to defend the 6th leading scorer in the NBA. One is clearly the best PG defender on the team, one is the worst defender on the team. And that Cleveland had Kyrie Irving was no surprise. Portland has scouts after all...and an internet connection

seems like a real easy discussion to engage in without cranking out a bunch of philosophy 101