The U25 Blazers - Who gives you the most hope

Masterfully · Post #1 » by **Masterfully** » Sat Aug 8, 2015 2:58 pm

As the Blazers move into a mode of acquiring new pieces most of us hope that we already have a piece or two sitting at the end of the bench. Which up and comer do you think is most likely to help out on the next good Blazer team?

Sticking with guys under 25, since they should have the most room for improvement. Obviously CJ and Meyers have proved the most, but they are getting close to 25 and may not improve much more. Crabbe looked solid in summer league. Vonleh is raw, but he is very young (less than a year older than Skal Labissiere) and could take off. Pat, Montero and Mo are real wildcards.

tester551 · Post #2 » by **tester551** » Sat Aug 8, 2015 4:37 pm

For me, Vonleh and Leonard are the only ones of the group - with me leaning toward Vonleh. I think the rest of the group peak out at "solid" bench players or low level starters on a playoff team.

Wizenheimer · Post #3 » by **Wizenheimer** » Sat Aug 8, 2015 4:49 pm

interesting question

personally, I think the Blazers will be spending a few years in wilderness of the lottery. For one thing, the Western Conference is tough and will remain so for quite a while. For another, even if Portland strikes gold in the lottery in 2016 or 2017 it will take some time for the new team to gel around the talent

of the players listed, I'm just going to dismiss Connaughton, Harkless, and Montero. They are so far removed from starting level talent that it's very hard for me to realistically imagine them being starters on a playoff team

I'm going to dismiss Leonard as I think he's too flawed a player to be a starter on a good team. Besides that, Portland won't be making the playoffs in 2017 and Leonard will be over 25 then

I'm going to dismiss CJ. He'll be over 25 before the 2016-17 season so the Blazers would have to make the playoffs next season. LOL on that happening. Besides, I can't believe a starting backcourt of Lillard/CJ would ever be good enough to make the playoffs

I suppose if I really stretch my imagination, there might be an outside chance Crabbe can make it as a 3&D type of player. But he's already 23 and so he's in the same situation that Meyers is in...Blazers would have to only spend 1 year in the lottery. Again, LOL on that

that leaves Vonleh. He's young enough to allow for a margin. But at this point, he's so far removed from establishing starting level talent (on playoff team) it's a stretch to say the odds are better then 50-50. I'll try optimism and vote for him but I think the answer will probably be none of them

edit: maybe I read the op wrong...I was thinking the players would still need to be under 25 when the team made the playoffs

PDXKnight · Post #4 » by **PDXKnight** » Sat Aug 8, 2015 5:12 pm

Vonleh. I've said before that I think his physical skills are the best out of any of the young guys on this team and I'm sticking with it. I'm not sure if he pulls it together but of all the under 25ers I like vonleh as the guy wth the highest potential ceiling

Agenda42 · Post #5 » by **Agenda42** » Sat Aug 8, 2015 5:13 pm

McCollum is a prototypical sixth man. I don't think you want him as a starting SG or PG, but he'll be useful to a playoff team in the future.

I think Leonard can be a starter on a playoff team, but probably a fourth or fifth guy. He's my pick from the group, because he's pretty close to the mark already.

Harkless could be a 3&D guy. Not more than a role player though.

Vonleh has the highest ceiling, but he's also the farthest away from contributing.

Brandon-Clyde · Post #6 » by **Brandon-Clyde** » Sat Aug 8, 2015 5:45 pm

I say Leonard. I see him has a solid 15-20ppg scorer 10 rpg at his peak. I see him in the Jack Sikma/ Bill Laimbeer/Brad Miller mold

blazersbucs40 · Post #7 » by **blazersbucs40** » Sat Aug 8, 2015 9:19 pm

Leonard but the guy I most excited to see play with extended minutes is Harkless, also excited to see Alexander play if he makes the team

Goldbum · Post #8 » by **Goldbum** » Sun Aug 9, 2015 3:47 pm

Going to vote Vonleh. He has so much talent.

Blaze the Nugz · Post #9 » by **Blaze the Nugz** » Sun Aug 9, 2015 6:41 pm

Leonard. I see him as more of a Mehmet Okur than a Lambier or Sikma. He'll be starting on the next Blazers playoff team.

zzaj · Post #10 » by **zzaj** » Sun Aug 9, 2015 10:57 pm

The only player on this list that has the potential to be a decent 2-way player at his natural position is Vonleh.

The only other player on the list that I could even potentially see as a starter would be McCollum...but that would take him developing the ability to put up 20+ a night and finding a team with a tall PG that could play D on opposing SGs.

OrlandoDream · Post #11 » by **OrlandoDream** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:44 pm

Word of caution about Harkless. He is a bigger tease then Jeff Green and Rudy Gay. Somebody who has all the tools to be an all star caliber player but his only limitation is his mentality and determination. The man has games where he appears to be an all star int he making, then there are games that he looks like a 58th pick. He has had games where he seemed like first team all defense. When moe gets locked on, he plays like our best defensive wing, but when he doesnt care, he plays James HArden D. Dude is just so inconsistent.

Moe getting minutes is not the solution here. He went from someone that started 60 games in his rookie year to DNP. The opportunity for him to shine has been there. He has gotten numerous chances to start, play primetime minutes, and show his worth, but just didnt want it bad enough. Last year was his worse. He fell into the doghouse and barely saw daylight, not even in blowout games(and we didnt have many of those). He is a good kid. Humble, generous, respectable, but just not a great basketball player. Maybe what he needs is a change of scenery to restart his young career and get a fresh start.

I had alot of hope to him his rookie year. Ppl in the magic boards were saying his ceiling is Paul George back then. That was obviously a pipe dream and realistically today, his ceiling is more like a poor mans trevor ariza. I hope he proves me wrong and plays efficient basketball. He can still save his career and be a NBA player for a long time. No all star, but a good bench player maybe.

Downtown · Post #12 » by **Downtown** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:53 pm

OrlandoDream wrote:I had alot of hope to him his rookie year. Ppl in the magic boards were saying his ceiling is Paul George back then. That was obviously a pipe dream and realistically today, his ceiling is more like a poor mans trevor ariza. I hope he proves me wrong and plays efficient basketball. He can still save his career and be a NBA player for a long time. No all star, but a good bench player maybe.

Portland has been looking for good bench players for 2-3 years now. If Harkless can become a good backup at small forward the trade will have been worth it. Looking down the line if McCollum steps it up this season so it makes letting Henderson go easy, and if Crabbe can show that his summer league play can translate into the regular season, then having Crabbe and Harkless for a couple seasons as serviceable backups while the front office puts together a couple other key pieces is a benefit for Portland as relatively
cheap contracts during a 3 year or so rebuild.

We aren't expecting much so Harkless could fit in as long as him and Crabbe aren't stifling each other at the same position.

PDX MM · Post #13 » by **PDX MM** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:02 am

I voted Vonleh but really I don't think any of them will be starters on a playoff team. I don't even think half of them will even be Blazers in 3 years.

Norm2953 · Post #14 » by **Norm2953** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:38 am

Frankly the U25 Blazer who will give us the most hope is playing college basketball this fall but
I suppose Vonleh offers some hope. None of the other guys on the roster (other than Dame)
would have played starter minutes this fall if LA, Nic, Wes and Rolo were still Blazers.

Downtown · Post #15 » by **Downtown** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:07 pm

Norm2953 wrote:Frankly the U25 Blazer who will give us the most hope is playing college basketball this fall but
I suppose Vonleh offers some hope. None of the other guys on the roster (other than Dame)
would have played starter minutes this fall if LA, Nic, Wes and Rolo were still Blazers.

Truest statement yet.

Waynearchetype · Post #16 » by **Waynearchetype** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:24 pm

Every year there are players who make big leaps when they're given an opportunity. Jimmy Butler, Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, Hassan Whiteside. All of those players clicked around age 24-26. I wouldn't count out Aminu/Davis from making any progress.

That said, I honestly see Harkless as the biggest potential most improved player this year. As the few Orlando fans have mentioned, he has days he looks like a superstar, and days he looks like a bust. He has the physical tools, for some seasons he has had the shooting, he has the defense. He is just terribly inconsistent. That could have been said of all those other most improved candidate players I listed.

Vonleh, in the long run, I feel like is the greatest hope. I do not think he will merge into a starter this season though. He is still far too young, but he has a great foundation/tool set for a guy his size.

GreenRiddler · Post #17 » by **GreenRiddler** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:57 am

I have had high hopes for McCollum and thought an opportunity was the only thing holding him back from success. He has that now.

I think he has the most hope to be a impact player on a playoff iteration of the Blazers.

He can just score in so many different ways and from every area of the floor, the 3, the rim, in Non-restricted area via floaters, the mid range. Has the complete package asa scorer. With his ability to drive and collapse the D, I can't see how he can;t develop into a Monta Ellis type of Sg/Pg. Not the best Ast/TO ratio, but good passing numbers.

17 5 and 4 on good shooting percentages is pretty great, and I don't see any other young guys as more of a sure thing to get those kind of impact numbers.

GreenRiddler · Post #18 » by **GreenRiddler** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:59 am

JJ Redick, is a starting caliber SG on a playoff team, also pretty tiny...just saying.

Wizenheimer · Post #19 » by **Wizenheimer** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:42 pm

GreenRiddler wrote:JJ Redick, is a starting caliber SG on a playoff team, also pretty tiny...just saying.

Redick is 6'4" w/o shoes; CJ is 6' 2.25". That's a significant difference for the SG position. Redick might be a little under average size for the SG position, not "tiny"

Randy Foye is almost an exact physical comp for CJ. Same height and nearly identical measurables across the board. Foye's undersized nature is one big reason he's been locked into being a role player. CJ probably has a ceiling somewhere between Foye and Lou Williams.

Both Foye and Williams, along with Jason Terry, have had varying success in their careers playing SG. But all three could play some PG in stretches and did. Terry has a career 2.2 ast/turnover mark (and played PG in college), Williams a 2.1 mark, and Foye a 1.9 mark. To this point, CJ only has a 1.1 ratio, which kind of matches his college ratio

and as zzaj pointed out, what really helps these players be effective playing SG is to be paired with a larger PG so defensive roles can be mixed and matched. Terry had his best showings playing with Jason Kidd. And Lou Williams had his best season last year while playing alongside Greivis Vasquez most of the time. He also spent time in Philly playing with Jrue Holiday, another taller PG.

I think Olshey knows that it's kind of vital that CJ display some PG ability in order to fit on a team with Lillard. That's why he's been pushing the notion in interviews this off-season, probably been pushing it hard with Stotts too. It would give CJ an opportunity for more regular minutes; if he's just locked into a SG role, it's a lot more problematic being on a team with LIllard

GreenRiddler · Post #20 » by **GreenRiddler** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 1:40 am

Wizenheimer wrote:
GreenRiddler wrote:JJ Redick, is a starting caliber SG on a playoff team, also pretty tiny...just saying.

Redick is 6'4" w/o shoes; CJ is 6' 2.25". That's a significant difference for the SG position. Redick might be a little under average size for the SG position, not "tiny"

Randy Foye is almost an exact physical comp for CJ. Same height and nearly identical measurables across the board. Foye's undersized nature is one big reason he's been locked into being a role player. CJ probably has a ceiling somewhere between Foye and Lou Williams.

Both Foye and Williams, along with Jason Terry, have had varying success in their careers playing SG. But all three could play some PG in stretches and did. Terry has a career 2.2 ast/turnover mark (and played PG in college), Williams a 2.1 mark, and Foye a 1.9 mark. To this point, CJ only has a 1.1 ratio, which kind of matches his college ratio

and as zzaj pointed out, what really helps these players be effective playing SG is to be paired with a larger PG so defensive roles can be mixed and matched. Terry had his best showings playing with Jason Kidd. And Lou Williams had his best season last year while playing alongside Greivis Vasquez most of the time. He also spent time in Philly playing with Jrue Holiday, another taller PG.

I think Olshey knows that it's kind of vital that CJ display some PG ability in order to fit on a team with Lillard. That's why he's been pushing the notion in interviews this off-season, probably been pushing it hard with Stotts too. It would give CJ an opportunity for more regular minutes; if he's just locked into a SG role, it's a lot more problematic being on a team with LIllard

I am not gonna peg his ceiling heading into the first real chance at mins in his career that low.

Having a similar stature to someone doesn't mean that you are that player, there are other reasons why Foye never developed as more than a role player type, JJ Redick's extra 1inch and 3/4 of an inch is the not the reason why Foye is the worse of the two.

JJ redick might be 1 inch and 3/4 of an inch taller than CJ, but his wingspan is shorter than he is (6'3") pretty tiny, and his standing reach isn't great for a SG either (8'1.5"). If Foye had JJ's diverse scoring abilities he would probably have found more stability. Given shooting the 3 is the only thing Foye does well.

I think McCollum is going to be a pretty good scorer from the floor, pretty certain it will be more so than Foye, because he has more areas from which he can score, like in the midrange and at the rim, unlike Foye. More like JJ Redick.

CJ has certainly shown he can score from more than 1 area of the floor, looking at his shot chart from his rookie year and this year, especially post all star break and in the playoffs where he was finally given a chance to expand his role in the offense, and that diversified scoring ability shows.

Whereas Foye does not.

Foye's SC past 2 seasons

JJ SCs past 2 seasons

McCollums SCs this year and Post ASG/Playoffs

Out of all the 3 major scoring areas, (3/Midrange/ at the rim) Foye never does good but at the 3, but CJ and Redick find success at more than 1 area.

And JJ plays with a small PG who doesn't defend the SGs in CP3.