What to do with Shae when Simons returns?

[Wizenheimer]

Spoiler:

I struggle with accepting Shae’s height, especially using pre-draft measurements. He was 17 and I am very confident he grew over the past year. I saw him from just a few feet away back in October and he did not look much shorter than Jerami Grant, and had at least 2-3 inches over Grayson Allen who was guarding him.

While some players try to pad their heights if they are undersized for their position, a number of players also conceal inches on their height because they want opposing defenses to think they are shorter than they are. It doesn’t exactly fool anyone, but it’s definitely a practice that exists in the NBA, and I very much suspect it to be true for Sharpe.

Obviously, I’m speculating, but having seen Shae up close, I don’t believe for a second he’s an inch shorter than 6’6

I don't buy that for a second. To start with, he wasn't 17 at the combine, he was essentially 19. And after all the chatter over the years about this player or that player growing a bunch from 19-20 years old, the reality is it's extremely rare

he was measured at 6'4.25". 6'6 would mean he grew nearly 2 inches after turning 19. It's not impossible, but it's also not very credible

and again, why the hell even worry about it? The only reason is to try to rationalize and justify Ant starting at SG. SG is Sharpe's natural position. And he's been making a strong case that he's the best option Portland has at SG. If the Blazers are hell-bent on starting Ant then they should have to balls to move Ant to PG, bench Scoot and go with Sharpe-Camara-Grant-Ayton. But what should happen, short of trading Ant, is that he's a 6th man. That's his natural position

That’s my bad, was distracted while typing. You’re right, he was 18, close to 19 at the time.

As far as growth probability, it all depends on when the ends of his bones seal, which could be as late as 21 in men. Gaining an inch an and a half or so over the past year and a half is certainly possible.

I’m not doubting his pre-draft measurement at the time. I just don’t believe for a second he’s 6’4.

But like you say, it doesn’t really matter what I think on the matter… just stating my observation

no problem

bottom line for me is that now and into the future, I'd really like to not see or hear any rationalizations for why Portland being undersized, significantly, on the wings is OK. Scoot-Sharpe-Camara-Grant is not undersized. It's not the tallestlineup but it's not small anymore. Scoot-Ant-Sharpe-Grant is undersized...by a lot. But I fear that's what will be looking at

[DC_Melo]

Spoiler:

I don't buy that for a second. To start with, he wasn't 17 at the combine, he was essentially 19. And after all the chatter over the years about this player or that player growing a bunch from 19-20 years old, the reality is it's extremely rare

he was measured at 6'4.25". 6'6 would mean he grew nearly 2 inches after turning 19. It's not impossible, but it's also not very credible

and again, why the hell even worry about it? The only reason is to try to rationalize and justify Ant starting at SG. SG is Sharpe's natural position. And he's been making a strong case that he's the best option Portland has at SG. If the Blazers are hell-bent on starting Ant then they should have to balls to move Ant to PG, bench Scoot and go with Sharpe-Camara-Grant-Ayton. But what should happen, short of trading Ant, is that he's a 6th man. That's his natural position

That’s my bad, was distracted while typing. You’re right, he was 18, close to 19 at the time.

As far as growth probability, it all depends on when the ends of his bones seal, which could be as late as 21 in men. Gaining an inch an and a half or so over the past year and a half is certainly possible.

I’m not doubting his pre-draft measurement at the time. I just don’t believe for a second he’s 6’4.

But like you say, it doesn’t really matter what I think on the matter… just stating my observation

no problem

bottom line for me is that now and into the future, I'd really like to not see or hear any rationalizations for why Portland being undersized, significantly, on the wings is OK. Scoot-Sharpe-Camara-Grant is not undersized. It's not the tallestlineup but it's not small anymore. Scoot-Ant-Sharpe-Grant is undersized...by a lot. But I fear that's what will be looking at

I think your fears are well founded… I could see Simons coming off the bench immediately after his return, but I don’t know how long that would last.

I do think there is a realistic chance Scoot comes off the bench though… Simons and Sharpe are just too good to sit and Camara is earning more minutes by the game

[mighty_duck]

I think your fears are well founded… I could see Simons coming off the bench immediately after his return, but I don’t know how long that would last.

I do think there is a realistic chance Scoot comes off the bench though… Simons and Sharpe are just too good to sit and Camara is earning more minutes by the game

The lack of playmaking on such a squad would be painful to watch (Ant/SS/Camara/Grant/Ayton).

[DC_Melo]

I think your fears are well founded… I could see Simons coming off the bench immediately after his return, but I don’t know how long that would last.

I do think there is a realistic chance Scoot comes off the bench though… Simons and Sharpe are just too good to sit and Camara is earning more minutes by the game

The lack of playmaking on such a squad would be painful to watch (Ant/SS/Camara/Grant/Ayton).

Would it be all that different? Simons last season averaged 4.1 assists a game, mostly as a SG, more than the 3.7 Brogdon averaged as a PG last year (albeit on less minutes… their per 36 is about even).

Brogdon’s assist total this year has improved due to a nice couple of assist games inflating his stats, but those are going to come down given his career 4.6 assists per game.

I would be curious to see how Simons looks running this team before jumping to that conclusion… something we haven’t really gotten to see yet this season.

[BlazersBroncos]

I think your fears are well founded… I could see Simons coming off the bench immediately after his return, but I don’t know how long that would last.

I do think there is a realistic chance Scoot comes off the bench though… Simons and Sharpe are just too good to sit and Camara is earning more minutes by the game

The lack of playmaking on such a squad would be painful to watch (Ant/SS/Camara/Grant/Ayton).

Would it be all that different? Simons last season averaged 4.1 assists a game, mostly as a SG, more than the 3.7 Brogdon averaged as a PG last year (albeit on less minutes… their per 36 is about even).

Brogdon’s assist total this year has improved due to a nice couple of assist games inflating his stats, but those are going to come down given his career 4.6 assists per game.

I would be curious to see how Simons looks running this team be jumping to that conclusion… something we haven’t really gotten to see yet this season.

I dont think Ant is going to work as a full PG - but I do see it worth a shot. Scoot clearly isnt ready and handing him the starting job and big minutes only to bumble about is going to take a toll on his confidence with time IMO. Also, Sharpe has improved as a ballhandler and passer leaps and bounds from last year - honestly, its night and day and I for one did not expect it any way him to look so good handling and passing vs last season. So that alleviates Ant's lack of being a true PG a bit IMO.

[dunlop212]

None of the PG options above are very attractive. How about Sharpe at PG? He seems to have the skills, and sometimes looks lost playing off the ball. Anybody remember this experiment?

https://www.si.com/nba/bulls/old-school/michael-jordans-time-as-a-point-guard-during-the-1988-89-nba-season

The NBA is kind of positionless, and Simons could take over some of the ball handling. It would be a taller backcourt than last year's. Brogden, as long as he is here, Mattisse, and Scoot could come off the bench. Give the minutes to whoever plays hard.

[Butter]

I'd rather just trade Simons and keep Brogdon.

In fact, I would make both Simons and Grant available. Winning low level games can be good for to avoid giving into a tanking culture, but I'd rather give those minutes to younger players, and position the Blazers for a better draft pick.

One caveat - I'd keep Brogdon, but not to win games. Scoot Henderson is one of the most important players for the Blazers future. I think Brogdon will he a better vet leader and mentor for Scoot that Simons.

[Norm2953]

I don't disagree with the trade Simons idea for if Brogdon is fine with being here, his
contract expires after next season.

One way or another, we need to acquire a front court player who can be part of a core with
Sharpe and Scoot. That guy may or may not be in the 2024 draft if our pick is in the latter half
of the 2024 lottery.

[zzaj]

I can see the logic of trading Brogdon when Simons comes back. I can also see the logic in trading Simons.

I REALLY see the logic of trading both, for a PF upgrade. Won't happen though. People are probably tired of me saying it, but Grant at SFotF just makes too much sense.

As much as I got tired of Nurkic, I certainly don't think Chauncey and Scotty Brooks are going to unlock Ayton either. I think the Blazers are stuck rebuilding with a Center that's going to look lost half the time, and underutilized the other half.

[GreenRiddler]

You guys are nuts SImons is a franchise corner stone. Him and Shaedon are the future right now and both are pretty much untouchable unless we get an all NBA talent back.

[Skybox]

I can see the logic of trading Brogdon when Simons comes back. I can also see the logic in trading Simons.

I REALLY see the logic of trading both, for a PF upgrade. Won't happen though. People are probably tired of me saying it, but Grant at SFotF just makes too much sense.

As much as I got tired of Nurkic, I certainly don't think Chauncey and Scotty Brooks are going to unlock Ayton either. I think the Blazers are stuck rebuilding with a Center that's going to look lost half the time, and underutilized the other half.

Wendell Carter SHOULD be a PF. He’s a solid Center, but his versatility on both ends makes him an ideal fit next to an old-school C like Ayton. ORL has seen, in his absence, what kind of C they need next to Paolo & Franz. WCJ is a better player than Goga, but not a better fit. He’d actually be good NEXT to Goga but that spot is very securely Paolo’s. Ayton/WCJ would be a a young, big, bullying frontcourt that would enable you to move Grant to a contender for a younger shooter at SF (assuming you don’t just roll with $$$ Grant and try to skip the rebuild- I wouldn’t).

POR sends Simons ($25m per-too much for a gunslinging 6th man, not a good fit starting next to Scoot)
ORL sends WCJ, Gary Harris (expiring, solid rotation vet, great locker room guy, 40% 3&D, but selective scorer), ORL 24 frp (top 5)

Ayton, Carter/Williams
Carter/Grant/Murray
Grant/Sharpe/Rupert
Sharpe/Harris/Brogdon
Scoot/Brogdon
* that’s a nice young core with a sprinkling of complimentary vets to show them what’s up and then expire, or, immediately follow with other vet moves and a legit mid-frp on the immediate horizon (sorry ORL, you’re not contending this year )

Or, sub in Jett Howard and Den 25 frp for the ORL pick

Or, for more cap relief vs draft capital…
POR sends Simons, Time Lord’s carcass - sad, he’s a great personality & player
ORL sends WCJ, Harris (expiring), Fultz (expiring), DEN 25 frp (assuming Williams is shot and negative - this is great value)

[zzaj]

I can see the logic of trading Brogdon when Simons comes back. I can also see the logic in trading Simons.

I REALLY see the logic of trading both, for a PF upgrade. Won't happen though. People are probably tired of me saying it, but Grant at SFotF just makes too much sense.

As much as I got tired of Nurkic, I certainly don't think Chauncey and Scotty Brooks are going to unlock Ayton either. I think the Blazers are stuck rebuilding with a Center that's going to look lost half the time, and underutilized the other half.

Wendell Carter SHOULD be a PF. He’s a solid Center, but his versatility on both ends makes him an ideal fit next to an old-school C like Ayton. ORL has seen, in his absence, what kind of C they need next to Paolo & Franz. WCJ is a better player than Goga, but not a better fit. He’d actually be good NEXT to Goga but that spot is very securely Paolo’s. Ayton/WCJ would be a a young, big, bullying frontcourt that would enable you to move Grant to a contender for a younger shooter at SF (assuming you don’t just roll with $$$ Grant and try to skip the rebuild- I wouldn’t).

POR sends Simons ($25m per-too much for a gunslinging 6th man, not a good fit starting next to Scoot)
ORL sends WCJ, Gary Harris (expiring, solid rotation vet, great locker room guy, 40% 3&D, but selective scorer), ORL 24 frp (top 5)

Ayton, Carter/Williams
Carter/Grant/Murray
Grant/Sharpe/Rupert
Sharpe/Harris/Brogdon
Scoot/Brogdon
* that’s a nice young core with a sprinkling of complimentary vets to show them what’s up and then expire, or, immediately follow with other vet moves and a legit mid-frp on the immediate horizon (sorry ORL, you’re not contending this year )

Or, sub in Jett Howard and Den 25 frp for the ORL pick

Or, for more cap relief vs draft capital…
POR sends Simons, Time Lord’s carcass - sad, he’s a great personality & player
ORL sends WCJ, Harris (expiring), Fultz (expiring), DEN 25 frp (assuming Williams is shot and negative - this is great value)

Buying into this essentially is buying into Ayton…and I’m not sure I can do that.

It’s going to be really interesting to see how Portland deals with the guard grouping of Scoot/Ant/Sharpe. Right now the obvious move is to trade Brogdon and keep Scoot off of the bench in a learning role. That seems to be working and perfect for competitive losses.

[tester551]

I can see the logic of trading Brogdon when Simons comes back. I can also see the logic in trading Simons.

I REALLY see the logic of trading both, for a PF upgrade. Won't happen though. People are probably tired of me saying it, but Grant at SFotF just makes too much sense.

As much as I got tired of Nurkic, I certainly don't think Chauncey and Scotty Brooks are going to unlock Ayton either. I think the Blazers are stuck rebuilding with a Center that's going to look lost half the time, and underutilized the other half.

Wendell Carter SHOULD be a PF. He’s a solid Center, but his versatility on both ends makes him an ideal fit next to an old-school C like Ayton. ORL has seen, in his absence, what kind of C they need next to Paolo & Franz. WCJ is a better player than Goga, but not a better fit. He’d actually be good NEXT to Goga but that spot is very securely Paolo’s. Ayton/WCJ would be a a young, big, bullying frontcourt that would enable you to move Grant to a contender for a younger shooter at SF (assuming you don’t just roll with $$$ Grant and try to skip the rebuild- I wouldn’t).

POR sends Simons ($25m per-too much for a gunslinging 6th man, not a good fit starting next to Scoot)
ORL sends WCJ, Gary Harris (expiring, solid rotation vet, great locker room guy, 40% 3&D, but selective scorer), ORL 24 frp (top 5)

Ayton, Carter/Williams
Carter/Grant/Murray
Grant/Sharpe/Rupert
Sharpe/Harris/Brogdon
Scoot/Brogdon
* that’s a nice young core with a sprinkling of complimentary vets to show them what’s up and then expire, or, immediately follow with other vet moves and a legit mid-frp on the immediate horizon (sorry ORL, you’re not contending this year )

Or, sub in Jett Howard and Den 25 frp for the ORL pick

Or, for more cap relief vs draft capital…
POR sends Simons, Time Lord’s carcass - sad, he’s a great personality & player
ORL sends WCJ, Harris (expiring), Fultz (expiring), DEN 25 frp (assuming Williams is shot and negative - this is great value)

Id love WCJ next to Ayton, but the opportunity to have Simons included in such a trade has passed.

All of these trade scenarios are a non-starter IMO.