2023-24 General Thread

[OGSactownballer]

Hard to say ultimately.

He’s shown up tonight. So far.

Now if we can stop having to play five on eight ball we can win this and secure the season series with PHX.

[OGSactownballer]

Well besides the fact that the refs made it pretty obvious who they wanted to win in the entire second half, it’s getting old watching the same STUPID double teams leaving wide open three point shooters.

[OGSactownballer]

There is zero question in my mind that the balance of this squad is needing to be fixed in the off season.

[BoogieTime]

I dont even know what to make of Keegan's year

inconsistency

negative offensive progression

very good defensive progression

But I don't like his passive demeanor...

Just don't know what the trajectory is.. Its hard for me to see the ~20 ppg dream with how passive/inconsistent he is.. Ultimately its not overly hard to acquire 3/D role players, I'd like more development and consistency from him as a 4th pick. We've actually seen some of in in summer league and preseason, but, that doesn't mean we will ever consistently see it in the regular season

[Lost in LA]

Hope Sabonis does not go to the All Star game, he deserves the rest. There is the financial consideration, but four days of hoopla for 5-6 minutes on the court in a no defense game seems a waste of time. Maybe Vivek can figure something out.......

[BoogieTime]

So, at the halfway mark, I’d characterize the season and our outlook by saying only Domas and Monk and sometimes Fox have lived up to expectations from the core.

That has turned us from possible outside contenders to current playin.

The rest of the starting unit: Fox might not be too off last years mark in terms of stats, with a great start, but I haven’t liked the low points. But Barnes/Huerter/Keegan are all sizably off hopes. Barnes has completely fallen off. Huerter isn’t what he was last year. Keegan’s offensive progression is unacceptable.

The bench: Monk has been great and Len steady, but the rest.. Sasha being a major disappointment, Davion not being a standard backup though improved lately, and no one else too notable.

So, other than Domas and Monk, everyone else hasn’t played to hopeful standards (though Fox’s great start could mitigate some of his off season and lack of clutch stats repetition). Really can’t have it, especially from a lot of the starting unit

[KF10]

So, at the halfway mark, I’d characterize the season and our outlook by saying only Domas and Monk and sometimes Fox have lived up to expectations from the core.

That has turned us from possible outside contenders to current playin.

The rest of the starting unit: Fox might not be too off last years mark in terms of stats, with a great start, but I haven’t liked the low points. But Barnes/Huerter/Keegan are all sizably off hopes. Barnes has completely fallen off. Huerter isn’t what he was last year. Keegan’s offensive progression is unacceptable.

The bench: Monk has been great and Len steady, but the rest.. Sasha being a major disappointment, Davion not being a standard backup though improved lately, and no one else too notable.

So, other than Domas and Monk, everyone else hasn’t played to hopeful standards (though Fox’s great start could mitigate some of his off season and lack of clutch stats repetition). Really can’t have it, especially from a lot of the starting unit

I agree with most of this.

But I think you are a bit harsh on Keegan though. I don't think his progression is "unacceptable" If I had to categorize his progression, it would be inconsistent. He has games where he is a factor on the offensive end // and other games where he is a zero. For sure his 3PT shooting has fallen off. Also, when you look at his shooting %s inside the 3PT line, it is improved all across the board. I get it. I think all of us expected him to become a ~18-ish PPG scorer in his second year. Maybe he will or will not accomplish that this season, that's ok. My goal for him post-all star break, is for him to be more included in the offensive gameplay and him being more assertive with the ball.

[BoogieTime]

So, at the halfway mark, I’d characterize the season and our outlook by saying only Domas and Monk and sometimes Fox have lived up to expectations from the core.

That has turned us from possible outside contenders to current playin.

The rest of the starting unit: Fox might not be too off last years mark in terms of stats, with a great start, but I haven’t liked the low points. But Barnes/Huerter/Keegan are all sizably off hopes. Barnes has completely fallen off. Huerter isn’t what he was last year. Keegan’s offensive progression is unacceptable.

The bench: Monk has been great and Len steady, but the rest.. Sasha being a major disappointment, Davion not being a standard backup though improved lately, and no one else too notable.

So, other than Domas and Monk, everyone else hasn’t played to hopeful standards (though Fox’s great start could mitigate some of his off season and lack of clutch stats repetition). Really can’t have it, especially from a lot of the starting unit

I agree with most of this.

But I think you are a bit harsh on Keegan though. I don't think his progression is "unacceptable" If I had to categorize his progression, it would be inconsistent. He has games where he is a factor on the offensive end // and other games where he is a zero. For sure his 3PT shooting has fallen off. Also, when you look at his shooting %s inside the 3PT line, it is improved all across the board. I get it. I think all of us expected him to become a ~18-ish PPG scorer in his second year. Maybe he will or will not accomplish that this season, that's ok. My goal for him post-all star break, is for him to be more included in the offensive gameplay and him being more assertive with the ball.

It depends what your expectations are.. He's on a fine arc for a solid 3/D role player

But in terms of franchise altering "3rd star"? I think we have to go by feel here.. Do you feel comfortable about that?

[KF10]

It depends what your expectations are.. He's on a fine arc for a solid 3/D role player

But in terms of franchise altering "3rd star"? I think we have to go by feel here.. Do you feel comfortable about that?

I'll be happy if Keegan tops out as a "Khris Middleton" level player. I believe he can get there but it may take him another season or 2 before seeing something of note here.

[codydaze]

So, at the halfway mark, I’d characterize the season and our outlook by saying only Domas and Monk and sometimes Fox have lived up to expectations from the core.

That has turned us from possible outside contenders to current playin.

The rest of the starting unit: Fox might not be too off last years mark in terms of stats, with a great start, but I haven’t liked the low points. But Barnes/Huerter/Keegan are all sizably off hopes. Barnes has completely fallen off. Huerter isn’t what he was last year. Keegan’s offensive progression is unacceptable.

The bench: Monk has been great and Len steady, but the rest.. Sasha being a major disappointment, Davion not being a standard backup though improved lately, and no one else too notable.

So, other than Domas and Monk, everyone else hasn’t played to hopeful standards (though Fox’s great start could mitigate some of his off season and lack of clutch stats repetition). Really can’t have it, especially from a lot of the starting unit

I agree with most of this.

But I think you are a bit harsh on Keegan though. I don't think his progression is "unacceptable" If I had to categorize his progression, it would be inconsistent. He has games where he is a factor on the offensive end // and other games where he is a zero. For sure his 3PT shooting has fallen off. Also, when you look at his shooting %s inside the 3PT line, it is improved all across the board. I get it. I think all of us expected him to become a ~18-ish PPG scorer in his second year. Maybe he will or will not accomplish that this season, that's ok. My goal for him post-all star break, is for him to be more included in the offensive gameplay and him being more assertive with the ball.

It depends what your expectations are.. He's on a fine arc for a solid 3/D role player

But in terms of franchise altering "3rd star"? I think we have to go by feel here.. Do you feel comfortable about that?

I definitely do.

[BoogieTime]

and to add to why the Kings have needed to get below the tax this summer to keep Monk

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/sixth-man/

odds on favorite for 6th man of the year, that would increase that contract

[BoogieTime]

and to add to why the Kings have needed to get below the tax this summer to keep Monk

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/sixth-man/

odds on favorite for 6th man of the year, that would increase that contract

https://hoopshype.com/lists/2024-nba-free-agent-rankings/

Does anyone have anyone better than Malik on this list that isnt already thought to be staying with their teams?

[LightTheBeam]

and to add to why the Kings have needed to get below the tax this summer to keep Monk

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/sixth-man/

odds on favorite for 6th man of the year, that would increase that contract

https://hoopshype.com/lists/2024-nba-free-agent-rankings/

Does anyone have anyone better than Malik on this list that isnt already thought to be staying with their teams?

Love Monk, but I really have a hard time seeing a team offer him 20+ annually.

You would have to believe he could be the lead guy and start for your team. He's already 26 so he is who he is, and that's a damn good player but I think he's best in the role we have him in.

Of the cap space teams

Philly - unlikely. He overlaps with Maxey and they need wing help.

Detroit - I wouldn't put it past them, but also seems unlikely with Ivey there.

Orlando - this is the spot he could make sense. But they seem to prefer a real traditional pg for the forwards, I doubt a team would see Monk as that guy.

Utah - pretty much the same as Clarkson

Okc - too many guards as is.

Charlotte- been there already. Don't think it ended well

SA - again another team who needs a real pg to put with Vassell + Wemby

So it comes down to us and Orlando. I mean if Orlando wants to offer him 25 million a year and a starting spot with Suggs, Wagner, Banchero not much we can do to stop it. But they did resign Cole, love suggs, and draft Black & Jett Howard with lotto picks. Thats a ton of guys who aren't real pgs. Doesn't make sense.

I don't really see our lack of willingness to add salary as a Monk thing. We are limited in what we can offer him regardless.

[BoogieTime]

and to add to why the Kings have needed to get below the tax this summer to keep Monk

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/sixth-man/

odds on favorite for 6th man of the year, that would increase that contract

https://hoopshype.com/lists/2024-nba-free-agent-rankings/

Does anyone have anyone better than Malik on this list that isnt already thought to be staying with their teams?

Love Monk, but I really have a hard time seeing a team offer him 20+ annually.

You would have to believe he could be the lead guy and start for your team. He's already 26 so he is who he is, and that's a damn good player but I think he's best in the role we have him in.

Of the cap space teams

Philly - unlikely. He overlaps with Maxey and they need wing help.

Detroit - I wouldn't put it past them, but also seems unlikely with Ivey there.

Orlando - this is the spot he could make sense. But they seem to prefer a real traditional pg for the forwards, I doubt a team would see Monk as that guy.

Utah - pretty much the same as Clarkson

Okc - too many guards as is.

Charlotte- been there already. Don't think it ended well

SA - again another team who needs a real pg to put with Vassell + Wemby

So it comes down to us and Orlando. I mean if Orlando wants to offer him 25 million a year and a starting spot with Suggs, Wagner, Banchero not much we can do to stop it. But they did resign Cole, love suggs, and draft Black & Jett Howard with lotto picks. Thats a ton of guys who aren't real pgs. Doesn't make sense.

I don't really see our lack of willingness to add salary as a Monk thing. We are limited in what we can offer him regardless.

Not sure about that... I think the going rate for prime 6MOY candidates might be more than the early bird going forward with the cap (Spurs reportedly wanted to give Austin Reaves 21 mil last year if he wasnt restricted)?

You could also just sign him as an asset.

If he is sizably better than other PGs talent wise on the FA market hasn't he made himself enough of a playmaker to be enticing if a team needs a playmaking guard?

I'm not sure he is what he is at 26, he has improved from last year

But looking at the list of cap teams in concerning in you need someone to take our contracts to get below the cap to offer him more.. and not who would do that and at what cost? I would've moved Barnes if that Houston rumor was true for expirings last deadline

[LightTheBeam]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/2024-nba-free-agent-rankings/

Does anyone have anyone better than Malik on this list that isnt already thought to be staying with their teams?

Love Monk, but I really have a hard time seeing a team offer him 20+ annually.

You would have to believe he could be the lead guy and start for your team. He's already 26 so he is who he is, and that's a damn good player but I think he's best in the role we have him in.

Of the cap space teams

Philly - unlikely. He overlaps with Maxey and they need wing help.

Detroit - I wouldn't put it past them, but also seems unlikely with Ivey there.

Orlando - this is the spot he could make sense. But they seem to prefer a real traditional pg for the forwards, I doubt a team would see Monk as that guy.

Utah - pretty much the same as Clarkson

Okc - too many guards as is.

Charlotte- been there already. Don't think it ended well

SA - again another team who needs a real pg to put with Vassell + Wemby

So it comes down to us and Orlando. I mean if Orlando wants to offer him 25 million a year and a starting spot with Suggs, Wagner, Banchero not much we can do to stop it. But they did resign Cole, love suggs, and draft Black & Jett Howard with lotto picks. Thats a ton of guys who aren't real pgs. Doesn't make sense.

I don't really see our lack of willingness to add salary as a Monk thing. We are limited in what we can offer him regardless.

Not sure about that... I think the going rate for prime 6MOY candidates might be more than the early bird going forward with the cap (Spurs reportedly wanted to give Austin Reaves 21 mil last year if he wasnt restricted)?

You could also just sign him as an asset.

If he is sizably better than other PGs talent wise on the FA market hasn't he made himself enough of a playmaker to be enticing if a team needs a playmaking guard?

I'm not sure he is what he is at 26, he has improved from last year

But looking at the list of cap teams in concerning in you need someone to take our contracts to get below the cap to offer him more.. and not who would do that and at what cost? I would've moved Barnes if that Houston rumor was true for expirings last deadline

Spurs could have offered Reaves a PP and they didn't. Rumors are Rumors.

Monk isn't really a point guard, he can be your 2nd ball handler, but I'm not sure any team wants him to be the primary playmaker.

And again with Orlando, they already have a bunch of score first, combo guards. The core is all 20-22, your assumption is they are going to pay for a meh fit because they have to fill the spot. I think they are going to lean into the trade market. I love them as a dejounte murray landing spot this summer. They can give no salary and just picks.

I also don't think it mattered if we dumped Barnes. We will see where the cap is next year. But it's currently projected at 141 million. We have 151 million in salaries going into next year. Even if we dumped Barnes, mitchell, duarte without taking anything back, we barely change the contract we can give Monk.

At this pt it feels out of management's hand. Either he likes it here and wants to stay or some team overpays and we had no chance anyways.

[LightTheBeam]

Poku just got waived by OKC. I'd sign him asap. Kid barely turned 22, is 7' tall. Last year he averaged 8-5-2-1.5 blocks in 20 mins on okay 3pt shooting.

Seems like a no brainer. Really hope Monte takes a look, but feels like Denver or someone will snatch him up.

[BoogieTime]

Love Monk, but I really have a hard time seeing a team offer him 20+ annually.

You would have to believe he could be the lead guy and start for your team. He's already 26 so he is who he is, and that's a damn good player but I think he's best in the role we have him in.

Of the cap space teams

Philly - unlikely. He overlaps with Maxey and they need wing help.

Detroit - I wouldn't put it past them, but also seems unlikely with Ivey there.

Orlando - this is the spot he could make sense. But they seem to prefer a real traditional pg for the forwards, I doubt a team would see Monk as that guy.

Utah - pretty much the same as Clarkson

Okc - too many guards as is.

Charlotte- been there already. Don't think it ended well

SA - again another team who needs a real pg to put with Vassell + Wemby

So it comes down to us and Orlando. I mean if Orlando wants to offer him 25 million a year and a starting spot with Suggs, Wagner, Banchero not much we can do to stop it. But they did resign Cole, love suggs, and draft Black & Jett Howard with lotto picks. Thats a ton of guys who aren't real pgs. Doesn't make sense.

I don't really see our lack of willingness to add salary as a Monk thing. We are limited in what we can offer him regardless.

Not sure about that... I think the going rate for prime 6MOY candidates might be more than the early bird going forward with the cap (Spurs reportedly wanted to give Austin Reaves 21 mil last year if he wasnt restricted)?

You could also just sign him as an asset.

If he is sizably better than other PGs talent wise on the FA market hasn't he made himself enough of a playmaker to be enticing if a team needs a playmaking guard?

I'm not sure he is what he is at 26, he has improved from last year

But looking at the list of cap teams in concerning in you need someone to take our contracts to get below the cap to offer him more.. and not who would do that and at what cost? I would've moved Barnes if that Houston rumor was true for expirings last deadline

Spurs could have offered Reaves a PP and they didn't. Rumors are Rumors.

Monk isn't really a point guard, he can be your 2nd ball handler, but I'm not sure any team wants him to be the primary playmaker.

And again with Orlando, they already have a bunch of score first, combo guards. The core is all 20-22, your assumption is they are going to pay for a meh fit because they have to fill the spot. I think they are going to lean into the trade market. I love them as a dejounte murray landing spot this summer. They can give no salary and just picks.

I also don't think it mattered if we dumped Barnes. We will see where the cap is next year. But it's currently projected at 141 million. We have 151 million in salaries going into next year. Even if we dumped Barnes, mitchell, duarte without taking anything back, we barely change the contract we can give Monk.

At this pt it feels out of management's hand. Either he likes it here and wants to stay or some team overpays and we had no chance anyways.

He’s not a point guard, but as a great secondary playmaker could be considered an option with another combo type. I think those were reports about Reaves rather than “rumors”, but I’d have to check.

But yes, there is something they can do about it, and we have to consider that we might see it. Could be a situation where free agency starts and we’d have a contingency if that offer for Malik appears. Barnes/Huerter/Davion whatever, and possibly draft capital at this point, to do it. It could be a cost, given what teams have cap and their incentives.

I’ve started a thread on the T/T board about this, that is so far mixed in results and comments, though early. Im surprised, I thought it would be more Malik is more than early bird centric. So, maybe it is a mixed idea if he’s worth more, we’ll see the results, meaning the Kings still have to have contingency plans in place to prepare for the offer Malik may get, as he is hugely important to the team (why we didn’t see payroll added and were after expiring players this last trade deadline)

[LightTheBeam]

Not sure about that... I think the going rate for prime 6MOY candidates might be more than the early bird going forward with the cap (Spurs reportedly wanted to give Austin Reaves 21 mil last year if he wasnt restricted)?

You could also just sign him as an asset.

If he is sizably better than other PGs talent wise on the FA market hasn't he made himself enough of a playmaker to be enticing if a team needs a playmaking guard?

I'm not sure he is what he is at 26, he has improved from last year

But looking at the list of cap teams in concerning in you need someone to take our contracts to get below the cap to offer him more.. and not who would do that and at what cost? I would've moved Barnes if that Houston rumor was true for expirings last deadline

Spurs could have offered Reaves a PP and they didn't. Rumors are Rumors.

Monk isn't really a point guard, he can be your 2nd ball handler, but I'm not sure any team wants him to be the primary playmaker.

And again with Orlando, they already have a bunch of score first, combo guards. The core is all 20-22, your assumption is they are going to pay for a meh fit because they have to fill the spot. I think they are going to lean into the trade market. I love them as a dejounte murray landing spot this summer. They can give no salary and just picks.

I also don't think it mattered if we dumped Barnes. We will see where the cap is next year. But it's currently projected at 141 million. We have 151 million in salaries going into next year. Even if we dumped Barnes, mitchell, duarte without taking anything back, we barely change the contract we can give Monk.

At this pt it feels out of management's hand. Either he likes it here and wants to stay or some team overpays and we had no chance anyways.

He’s not a point guard, but as a great secondary playmaker could be considered an option with another combo type. I think those were reports about Reaves rather than “rumors”, but I’d have to check.

But yes, there is something they can do about it, and we have to consider that we might see it. Could be a situation where free agency starts and we’d have a contingency if that offer for Malik appears. Barnes/Huerter/Davion whatever, and possibly draft capital at this point, to do it. It could be a cost, given what teams have cap and their incentives.

I’ve started a thread on the T/T board about this, that is so far mixed in results and comments, though early. Im surprised, I thought it would be more Malik is more than early bird centric. So, maybe it is a mixed idea if he’s worth more, we’ll see the results, meaning the Kings still have to have contingency plans in place to prepare for the offer Malik may get, as he is hugely important to the team (why we didn’t see payroll added and were after expiring players this last trade deadline)

Could be. But Orlando is positioned very well and doesn't need to force a player that isn't a great fit. Black, Howard, Suggs, Paolo, Wagner, WCJ, Anthony, are all ages 20-24. IMO the team is going to look for a real point guard, and depth at forward, along with a backup stretch center. They also have extra picks and can easily grab Dejounte.

if the plan is to overpay Malik, we don't have any options here ourselves. It makes zero sense to dump Barnes + Sasha + Mitchell + Duarte just to retain Malik.

Fox/Keon/Colby
Huerter/Monk
Murray/
Lyles
Sabonis

add in vet mins to fill out the team. OR...

It sucks but we let him go, call up KCP, GTJ, Bruce Brown, Grayson Allen, and see if one of them will take our MLE. Hopefully the pick owed to ATL is gone, and now we have Sasha/Barnes/Mitchell/Duarte + all our picks to go and trade for say Jerami Grant/Thyublle (just throwing out an example)

Fox/Keon/Colby
Huerter/Grayson Allen
Murray/Thybulle
Grant/Lyles
Sabonis/Vet min center

Monk is one of my favorite players, but this is an easy decision for me. He takes what we can offer, or we thank him and move on best we can.

[codydaze]

I agree that dumping Barnes, Huerter and draft capital to make room for a bigger Monk deal would be counterintuitive. That's sacrificing a lot to retain one guy and I'm not denying how important he is to this team but it's much easier to replace a second unit spark plug than it is to replace a starter AND a spark plug (assuming Monk would move into the starting lineup which would also be a mistake, in my opinion).

[typedrat]

Honestly, considering how rough Malik's experience has been with other teams and how beloved and successful he is here, I think it'd take a truly obscene offer from another team to pry him loose.