2023-24 General Thread

[City of Trees]

Sabonis is quick to look for DHO vs shooting

[City of Trees]

Fun stat of the night: Davion had a team high 11 shots. Made 2

[OxAndFox]

Unacceptable for an All-Star + All NBA player to take just 4 shots in 30 minutes. Sabonis will finish with 8/8/5

I acknowledge Domas' skillet but it's become clear he is your dirty work/passing/screening big, not your #2 on a championship contender. However, he got paid like one.

This is THE reason I keep saying the Kings need a #1. Fox early in the season has looked way better at taking over games from the start, but last year he wouldn't, and just wait for the last quarter. That's all well and good that he can be a superstar in the last, but you want to get to the stage where he doesn't need to do it.
I will keep on it though, if Fox isn't the #1 they need one, if he is, the Kings need a #2 because Domas is the hub, if the Kings are going to win a championship he would average something like 12/12/8.
Keegan needs to step up and coach Brown needs to allow him to become a #2 option instead of thinking a 2nd year player can run around after #1 scoring options AND score the ball efficiently as a major weapon.
LeBron could do it. Steph can't. Who else has he coached that could? Klay? Does he see Keegan as being a HOF? Why does he expect Keegan to do it? It's infuriating to watch.

[OxAndFox]

Fun stat of the night: Davion had a team high 11 shots. Made 2

And that is all about coaching. Tip my hat to Udoka. Who do you want shooting if you're the Rockets? Davion is #1.

Now, let's see how many shots Thybulle takes against the Kings next game. I will make a bet it's not in the top 4 players in their squad. He won't play many minutes either, but he will only take a shot every 5-6 minutes, because you know, he isn't in their offensive structure.

The coaching strategy is poor for the Kings ATM. Gotta call it out. Like even the GSW make adjustments to the other team (IE Sabonis strategy in POs). They're not THAT arrogant.

[City of Trees]

This is THE reason I keep saying the Kings need a #1. Fox early in the season has looked way better at taking over games from the start, but last year he wouldn't, and just wait for the last quarter. That's all well and good that he can be a superstar in the last, but you want to get to the stage where he doesn't need to do it.
I will keep on it though, if Fox isn't the #1 they need one, if he is, the Kings need a #2 because Domas is the hub, if the Kings are going to win a championship he would average something like 12/12/8.

Sabonis being the hub is a thing of the past until he can make teams pay for sagging off.

[blind prophet]

Looks like a good time for me to miss a couple of games....box score looked brutal.

[blind prophet]

The Kings are outscoring opponents by 7.4 points/100 possessions with Mitchell on the bench.

The Kings are *being outscored* by 16.2 points/100 possessions with Mitchell on the floor.

Overall, Mitchell is posting a -23.6 on/off net rating this season.

I'm going to have to watch him more. I've missed these past two games but didn't realize it was that atrocious.

[BoogieTime]

If the team is going all in it does no good to talk about non positive contracts like Huerter/Barnes/Mitchell.

It’s Keegan. I vaccilate whether or not to move him for a win now player as I don’t trust his fortitude. Just not sure where that player comes from

[OxAndFox]

This is THE reason I keep saying the Kings need a #1. Fox early in the season has looked way better at taking over games from the start, but last year he wouldn't, and just wait for the last quarter. That's all well and good that he can be a superstar in the last, but you want to get to the stage where he doesn't need to do it.
I will keep on it though, if Fox isn't the #1 they need one, if he is, the Kings need a #2 because Domas is the hub, if the Kings are going to win a championship he would average something like 12/12/8.

Sabonis being the hub is a thing of the past until he can make teams pay for sagging off.

Yeah I agree. Last season the DHO action was more from around the 3pt line. He could then make a decision to drop it off, keep it and wait for a cut, shoot the 3 or drive to the basket depending on what the D gave him. The PO run dipped confidence levels, but if they are hitting 3s it opens up things greatly.

At the end of the day though, if he can hit the mid range jumper it puts this offense to another level. I still don't understand why he didn't work on it during the off season. And if anyone says that he did, they're a fool. You don't get Doug Christie to work with you over the summer on your jump shot, you just don't, like EVER. It would be like getting Gobert (Doug) to work with you on post-moves instead of Jokic (Luke). I don't understand why NBA players are so dumb about their own game. Instead of working on a jumpshot Sabonis was all about getting his new contract. Not going to knock him for getting paid, and not going to knock the Kings for paying it, but paying someone 5/216m to do what Domas is doing is just insane.

Vs Houston statline...in 2 games.
19/23/9
8/14 FG
0/2 3PT
3/7 FT
0 ST
2 BLK
9 TOs
-50 +/-

[OxAndFox]

If the team is going all in it does no good to talk about non positive contracts like Huerter/Barnes/Mitchell.

It’s Keegan. I vaccilate whether or not to move him for a win now player as I don’t trust his fortitude. Just not sure where that player comes from

Those guys are positive contracts though. It's not 2019. They are barely taking anything of the cap. I mean someone like Rui is right between Barnes and Huerter and it's not even close to knowing who the worst of those 3 are. You're looking at guys like Dort and Bogdan that are just under them in a couple of years. Just above these guys are Duncan Robinson, Powell and Deandre Hunter. Barnes and Huerter and both on bargain contracts.
Have a look at what Houston paid just to get vet leadership. FVV is taking up 24.1% of their cap in 3 YEARS' time.

% Of Cap in years remaining for the 3 guys you mentioned.
Barnes 11.53%/10.10%/9.45%
Huerter 10.63%/9.44%/8.95%
Davion 3.44%/3.62%

Keegan isn't a problem either, he is what he is, a 2nd year player. But what I will say is a lot of Kings fans and media keep parroting that they can't afford for a project or young player at the end of the roster, yet they have said not 1 thing about Keegan needing to go for a more win now player. I'm not saying I advocate for it, but right at this point in time, if you don't believe the Kings can afford to develop a young player at the end of the bench then you should be in a camp of trading Keegan for someone to fit a win now time.

[City of Trees]

If there was any doubt left about who's team this is those questions were answered last night. Kings go as far as Fox can carry them. I know we all jumped on Domas yesterday and rightfully so, for me last night's game put things into perspective - Domas' ceiling is being Fox's Robin, but Domas could never fill Batman's shoes. Domas and Fox complement each other well so it's not like Domas sucks now - he's an elite role player, not a #2. Not until he can score from at least two levels.

[KF10]

Without Fox, the team appears to be soft.

There was one play where Brooks pulled down Duarte. And no one responded back or had Duarte's back. I hated that.

Brooks was blowing kisses at the Kings bench in the first match up. The lack of response by the Kings in the 2nd game was disheartening.

[KF10]

Scratch that, I can say Fox, Monk and Lyles are the only "dogs" in our team. They wouldn't have tolerated Brooks antics.

We need more players that won't back down from anyone.

Kind of disappointed that Domas didn't had Duarte's back

[madskillz8]

Without Fox, the team appears to be soft.

There was one play where Brooks pulled down Duarte. And no one responded back or had Duarte's back. I hated that.

Brooks was blowing kisses at the Kings bench in the first match up. The lack of response by the Kings in the 2nd game was disheartening.

Just like when Valanciunas had thrown Metu to the floor, right?

[KF10]

Without Fox, the team appears to be soft.

There was one play where Brooks pulled down Duarte. And no one responded back or had Duarte's back. I hated that.

Brooks was blowing kisses at the Kings bench in the first match up. The lack of response by the Kings in the 2nd game was disheartening.

Just like when Valanciunas had thrown Metu to the floor, right?

Yeah that one too.

I get it. The Kings want high character players in their squad. But that shouldn't mean those players should roll over when there is a clear disrespect from the opponent. Need to respond back appropriately.

[OxAndFox]

So the Kings have gone from #24 to #22 on defensive rating and from #1 to #20 in offensive rating.
Net rating is ranked #22. Pace is down to #22 and true shooting is at #27.

At what point is a poor(er) offense worth it because they're turning it around on the defensive end?
I would have said #14-16 at the start of the season, but that by keeping a top 10 offense.

[City of Trees]

The sample size is too small at the moment. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they walked into that Rockets game #15 on defense and #14 on offense.

[BoogieTime]

If there was any doubt left about who's team this is those questions were answered last night. Kings go as far as Fox can carry them. I know we all jumped on Domas yesterday and rightfully so, for me last night's game put things into perspective - Domas' ceiling is being Fox's Robin, but Domas could never fill Batman's shoes. Domas and Fox complement each other well so it's not like Domas sucks now - he's an elite role player, not a #2. Not until he can score from at least two levels.

You guys are taking it too far.

The team was a flailing lottery team with zero direction when Fox was left to his own devices, and became the top offense in the league played through Sabonis as the fulcrum. Fox has great talent but a wildly inconsistent motor with non traditional PG playmaking which lends itself to someone else taking over the “engine” reigns while he finishes.

While someone else was needed to transform the team to being a playoff team, Fox’s finishing may well determine playoff matchups and how far the team goes in the playoffs once there though

[BoogieTime]

If the team is going all in it does no good to talk about non positive contracts like Huerter/Barnes/Mitchell.

It’s Keegan. I vaccilate whether or not to move him for a win now player as I don’t trust his fortitude. Just not sure where that player comes from

Those guys are positive contracts though. It's not 2019. They are barely taking anything of the cap. I mean someone like Rui is right between Barnes and Huerter and it's not even close to knowing who the worst of those 3 are. You're looking at guys like Dort and Bogdan that are just under them in a couple of years. Just above these guys are Duncan Robinson, Powell and Deandre Hunter. Barnes and Huerter and both on bargain contracts.
Have a look at what Houston paid just to get vet leadership. FVV is taking up 24.1% of their cap in 3 YEARS' time.

% Of Cap in years remaining for the 3 guys you mentioned.
Barnes 11.53%/10.10%/9.45%
Huerter 10.63%/9.44%/8.95%
Davion 3.44%/3.62%

Keegan isn't a problem either, he is what he is, a 2nd year player. But what I will say is a lot of Kings fans and media keep parroting that they can't afford for a project or young player at the end of the roster, yet they have said not 1 thing about Keegan needing to go for a more win now player. I'm not saying I advocate for it, but right at this point in time, if you don't believe the Kings can afford to develop a young player at the end of the bench then you should be in a camp of trading Keegan for someone to fit a win now time.

Well, if they aren’t negative no one is chomping at the bit to give up serious value for them (as can be seen on the trades/transactions board when they are brought up). Huerter has had a bad last half of last year/playoffs and start to this year and Barnes is aging mediocrity who is paid quite fairly for his services now

Only Murray and picks are enticing to anyone

[OxAndFox]

If the team is going all in it does no good to talk about non positive contracts like Huerter/Barnes/Mitchell.

It’s Keegan. I vaccilate whether or not to move him for a win now player as I don’t trust his fortitude. Just not sure where that player comes from

Those guys are positive contracts though. It's not 2019. They are barely taking anything of the cap. I mean someone like Rui is right between Barnes and Huerter and it's not even close to knowing who the worst of those 3 are. You're looking at guys like Dort and Bogdan that are just under them in a couple of years. Just above these guys are Duncan Robinson, Powell and Deandre Hunter. Barnes and Huerter and both on bargain contracts.
Have a look at what Houston paid just to get vet leadership. FVV is taking up 24.1% of their cap in 3 YEARS' time.

% Of Cap in years remaining for the 3 guys you mentioned.
Barnes 11.53%/10.10%/9.45%
Huerter 10.63%/9.44%/8.95%
Davion 3.44%/3.62%

Keegan isn't a problem either, he is what he is, a 2nd year player. But what I will say is a lot of Kings fans and media keep parroting that they can't afford for a project or young player at the end of the roster, yet they have said not 1 thing about Keegan needing to go for a more win now player. I'm not saying I advocate for it, but right at this point in time, if you don't believe the Kings can afford to develop a young player at the end of the bench then you should be in a camp of trading Keegan for someone to fit a win now time.

Well, if they aren’t negative no one is chomping at the bit to give up serious value for them (as can be seen on the trades/transactions board when they are brought up). Huerter has had a bad last half of last year/playoffs and start to this year and Barnes is aging mediocrity who is paid quite fairly for his services now

Only Murray and picks are enticing to anyone

I agree no one is chomping at the bit on the T&T board for them, but it's the T&T board, not an NBA FO. If you're not a star or under 22 everyone is crap over there.
The Kings paid a 1st for Kevin Huerter. Since then he is coming off a career year, is just 25, and is paid 3/50m. If he was a FA in the off season he would have made a hell of a lot more so to me he is on a bargain contract. When a FO is scouting the potential of adding Huerter they would notice his playmaking skills as an upgrade to his previous skills when in Atlanta. The start to the season hasn't been great for him, along with others, but no one values people on a 6-game sample size. In March he averaged 18ppg so it was basically a flat spot in February and then April.

Barnes is who he is. A vet player who is one of the better pro's in the game. I mentioned after last season Barnes needs to come off the bench. Brown needs to tell him if he isn't scoring and doing the little things on the offensive end, his D will never keep him in the starting line-up. Lyles or Sasha should come into the starting 5 for balance.

Pace is the thing that has hurt some other guys, no getting out on fast breaks for open 3s and a slower pace means fewer shots for everyone, and whether its Huerter being too far out and shooting over a hand, Keegan shooting off-balance 3s, Domas clanking everything not a lay up, Barnes forgetting he is allowed to shoot, Sasha shooting with pressure on, Duarte thinking he is a mid range maestro and forget about it with Davion. The offense is putrid and it has to do with pace. The guys can't get out and run after "working" so hard on D.

The only thing I'm really disappointed with Huerter is the same thing I am with pretty much every other player on the squad not named Fox. They knew defense was going to be a focus and they didn't have the legs for it late last season, but what do you know, everyone apart from Fox has come back with the same or weaker fitness levels.