2023-2024 Trade Thread

[LightTheBeam]

Well, we've got a general and past due off-season thread. Figured its time for a trade thread. Obviously Barnes is the biggest weak link, and the team needs to upgrade sooner than later. I think obvious needs are a wing who can play defense, and potentially another scorer.

Who are some good trade targets? Listing a bunch although some come with significant question marks

OG
Pascal
Collins
Kuzma
Finney-Smith
Royce O'Neale
Andrew Wiggins
Jerami Grant

My dark horse favorite here would be Wiggins. GS is in a bit of shambles, and he's having a down year, think this probably takes a 3 team deal, but it would definitely be interesting.

Another option id like depending on price (not anywhere close to rumored asking) would be to try and double up with O'Neale and Finney-Smith. It puts our front court in a great spot with Murray-DFS-Sabonis and O'Neale-Sasha-Lyles off the bench. It's not a huge splash, but I think defensively would be great adding two guys who can both impact the game and hit 3s.

[blind prophet]

I have some "Rules" about what to do & what not to do.

1. Doing nothing is better than doing something stupid. Feels like a Jerry Reynolds quote.

2. Do not trade for a player with questionable durability/health unless they are on an expiring contract and we don't give up much.

3. Anything that costs a decent amount to get needs to be on a multi year deal.

4. Remember Jarl Thompandry

[blind prophet]

Disagree with Barnes being the weak link. We had salary to use. He isn't massively overpaid or anything. He is multi positional although it looks like some faster 3's he is having trouble keeping up with. Does ok with big 4's.

Barnes is durable and doesn't miss games. He never seems to be a problem with his role.

Nothing flashy, but what do you want from the 5th ish offensive player on the team?

We have Fox, Sabonis, Murray, Monk that all should take priority in being involved offensively before Barnes on most possessions. Huerter gets a lot of shots, hopefully he stays more consistent.

Lyles & Sasha can hit the 3 off the bench.

What do you want from Barnes minutes?

He is more than a spot up shooter. Still shooting 38% from 3 at 5 shots per game.

But sure, if you want to use his salary for a better fit, I'm open to it.

[blind prophet]

Davion

We may want to make a decision here soon.

I don't think he has a whole lot of value though right now, but is out of the rotation.

At some point his return will be so low that we may as well keep team control and wait it out. Are we there yet? No, but we will probably be at some point soon.

He doesn't make a ton of money, so if we tried to use his salary we'd have to take on a mid size contract max and likely have to send out some draft incentive on top of that.

[blind prophet]

Right now if I'm Monte I patiently wait for Chicago to blow it up. Then we try to get involved in a 3 team trade.

Target Caruso.

We use Davion + some seconds and possibly a pick swap. I know Chicago is wanting more than that. But our other fillers could be a guy like Barnes.

Try to get him without over paying.

[madskillz8]

My take on OG, the first player listed on this list:

Raptors fans promote him like the one of the best players in the league for a while just to trade him for 4 FRPs. His stats are cool, and on paper, he can make huge impact in any team. Yet, it never materialized up to date.

First of all his stats might suggest that he can be a great 3rd option on offense- 15 ppgs with very efficient shooting.

No, he can't be a great 3rd option for any top offensive team. He not only lacks creating his offense, but he is not a good offensive distributor - it is hard to have a ball moving with him on the floor. To do that, you need five players with good understanding of basketball, especially on offense.

And yes, he's a very good wing defender. At this point, he's an athletic freak who can perfectly defend 1-on-1s, and can hit open shoots very effectively, but nothing more. I know it would be a bold statement, but he's not a good basketball player. He's the epitome of the clash of analytics with eye test.

Add him to the Kings, we're contenders!! "On paper" But I dont think he would be an improvement from Barnes. Even though he's more efficient, our offense will be worse. "But his defense is great". Yes he's a great wing stopper with his athleticism, and versatile. Thus, basically get little worse on offense, and get little better in defense. The question how much you would pay for that? And you would also start paying luxury tax for moving from Barnes to OG.

[OxAndFox]

This team needs to find its Aaron Gordon. Or Andrew Wiggins.

My aint gonna happen list is:
JJJ
Jabari Smith Jr
Herb Jones

Realistic Top Targets
OG
Pascal
Portis

Beggers Can't Be Choosers
John Collins
Royce
TJ Warren

[Morse Code]

My take on OG, the first player listed on this list:

Raptors fans promote him like the one of the best players in the league for a while just to trade him for 4 FRPs. His stats are cool, and on paper, he can make huge impact in any team. Yet, it never materialized up to date.

First of all his stats might suggest that he can be a great 3rd option on offense- 15 ppgs with very efficient shooting.

No, he can't be a great 3rd option for any top offensive team. He not only lacks creating his offense, but he is not a good offensive distributor - it is hard to have a ball moving with him on the floor. To do that, you need five players with good understanding of basketball, especially on offense.

And yes, he's a very good wing defender. At this point, he's an athletic freak who can perfectly defend 1-on-1s, and can hit open shoots very effectively, but nothing more. I know it would be a bold statement, but he's not a good basketball player. He's the epitome of the clash of analytics with eye test.

Add him to the Kings, we're contenders!! "On paper" But I dont think he would be an improvement from Barnes. Even though he's more efficient, our offense will be worse. "But his defense is great". Yes he's a great wing stopper with his athleticism, and versatile. Thus, basically get little worse on offense, and get little better in defense. The question how much you would pay for that? And you would also start paying luxury tax for moving from Barnes to OG.

I'm not an OG stan like many Raptors fans but so much of this is off. That's not shade towards you because I'm assuming this happens to many fans of other fan bases when assessing a player they don't often watch. I agree with the offensive creation being lacking though, but his impact on the game far exceeds his advanced stats. When he doesn't play, we notice the drop off more than any other player on the team.

Most Raptors fans don't want to trade him at all, even if we overpay 40+ per year to keep him. They believe he's that valuable and fits with anyone because of his defense, run pressure, and shooting. I don't entirely agree with paying him 40+, or risking him walking for nothing though.

But tbh, if he was already signed, he'd be as close to untouchable almost as Scottie Barnes is for most fans. Everyone else can take a hike, aside from Scottie, but don't undersell jump you'd notice, going from Barnes to OG.

Actually I'm curious what you guys think. Let's assume the trade package going out was the exact same for either player... Who would you guys rather have? Pascal or OG?

Sent from my LG-H873 using RealGM mobile app

[OxAndFox]

My take on OG, the first player listed on this list:

Raptors fans promote him like the one of the best players in the league for a while just to trade him for 4 FRPs. His stats are cool, and on paper, he can make huge impact in any team. Yet, it never materialized up to date.

First of all his stats might suggest that he can be a great 3rd option on offense- 15 ppgs with very efficient shooting.

No, he can't be a great 3rd option for any top offensive team. He not only lacks creating his offense, but he is not a good offensive distributor - it is hard to have a ball moving with him on the floor. To do that, you need five players with good understanding of basketball, especially on offense.

And yes, he's a very good wing defender. At this point, he's an athletic freak who can perfectly defend 1-on-1s, and can hit open shoots very effectively, but nothing more. I know it would be a bold statement, but he's not a good basketball player. He's the epitome of the clash of analytics with eye test.

Add him to the Kings, we're contenders!! "On paper" But I dont think he would be an improvement from Barnes. Even though he's more efficient, our offense will be worse. "But his defense is great". Yes he's a great wing stopper with his athleticism, and versatile. Thus, basically get little worse on offense, and get little better in defense. The question how much you would pay for that? And you would also start paying luxury tax for moving from Barnes to OG.

I'm not an OG stan like many Raptors fans but so much of this is off. That's not shade towards you because I'm assuming this happens to many fans of other fan bases when assessing a player they don't often watch. I agree with the offensive creation being lacking though, but his impact on the game far exceeds his advanced stats. When he doesn't play, we notice the drop off more than any other player on the team.

Most Raptors fans don't want to trade him at all, even if we overpay 40+ per year to keep him. They believe he's that valuable and fits with anyone because of his defense, run pressure, and shooting. I don't entirely agree with paying him 40+, or risking him walking for nothing though.

But tbh, if he was already signed, he'd be as close to untouchable almost as Scottie Barnes is for most fans. Everyone else can take a hike, aside from Scottie, but don't undersell jump you'd notice, going from Barnes to OG.

Actually I'm curious what you guys think. Let's assume the trade package going out was the exact same for either player... Who would you guys rather have? Pascal or OG?

Sent from my LG-H873 using RealGM mobile app

OG quite comfortable for me.
Pascal has the All NBA scoring ability and he's not James Harden on defense or anything so thats great. He's obviously an excellent player.

OG might just be the best defender in the NBA though and with Keegan and Fox improving on D they could form a terrific perimeter defense that has good length and versatility.
The problem remains on the interior, however, I think if the opposition isn't getting into the lane as often it takes the pressure off Domas and he is passable.
If the Kings did indeed trade for OG I wouldn't hesitate in giving him the contract he would like.

I know many Kings fans have doubts about his health and it's certainly a concern of mine too so anyone, Raptors and Kings would be taking a risk on him getting close to living up to $40m per year.
For that amount, you would want a couple of defensive all NBA teams and a championship.

[madskillz8]

My take on OG, the first player listed on this list:

Raptors fans promote him like the one of the best players in the league for a while just to trade him for 4 FRPs. His stats are cool, and on paper, he can make huge impact in any team. Yet, it never materialized up to date.

First of all his stats might suggest that he can be a great 3rd option on offense- 15 ppgs with very efficient shooting.

No, he can't be a great 3rd option for any top offensive team. He not only lacks creating his offense, but he is not a good offensive distributor - it is hard to have a ball moving with him on the floor. To do that, you need five players with good understanding of basketball, especially on offense.

And yes, he's a very good wing defender. At this point, he's an athletic freak who can perfectly defend 1-on-1s, and can hit open shoots very effectively, but nothing more. I know it would be a bold statement, but he's not a good basketball player. He's the epitome of the clash of analytics with eye test.

Add him to the Kings, we're contenders!! "On paper" But I dont think he would be an improvement from Barnes. Even though he's more efficient, our offense will be worse. "But his defense is great". Yes he's a great wing stopper with his athleticism, and versatile. Thus, basically get little worse on offense, and get little better in defense. The question how much you would pay for that? And you would also start paying luxury tax for moving from Barnes to OG.

I'm not an OG stan like many Raptors fans but so much of this is off. That's not shade towards you because I'm assuming this happens to many fans of other fan bases when assessing a player they don't often watch. I agree with the offensive creation being lacking though, but his impact on the game far exceeds his advanced stats. When he doesn't play, we notice the drop off more than any other player on the team.

Most Raptors fans don't want to trade him at all, even if we overpay 40+ per year to keep him. They believe he's that valuable and fits with anyone because of his defense, run pressure, and shooting. I don't entirely agree with paying him 40+, or risking him walking for nothing though.

But tbh, if he was already signed, he'd be as close to untouchable almost as Scottie Barnes is for most fans. Everyone else can take a hike, aside from Scottie, but don't undersell jump you'd notice, going from Barnes to OG.

Actually I'm curious what you guys think. Let's assume the trade package going out was the exact same for either player... Who would you guys rather have? Pascal or OG?

Sent from my LG-H873 using RealGM mobile app

You're right, I rarely watch a full Raptors game. Over the last two years, I watched him maybe 4 or 5 times. I agree, that's a small sample size to accurately evaluate a player. However, whenever I watched him, I failed to see what makes him 40m$ player that can carry Kings to the next level. I fail to see the hype. For example, whenever I watch Gobert, he catches my eye as he disrupts many drives, even if he doesn't block many shoots.

OG, in my opinion, is a very good 1-on-1 defender as he has a great lateral quickness and wingspan. It's very disruptive. Also he proved that he can be an effective 3pt shooter. This makes him a very good role player that can help any team. But no, don't give very good role player a superstar money. That's what I am saying because the success in NBA is all about CBA (salary cap and team construction) IMO. And offensively, he's not fluid. It's hard to have the ball and the players keep moving with him on the floor for 30 minutes.

There was a tweet that is shared many times on realgm - he keep opposing players like 10% FG. Once I read this tweet, I was like - Wow - seems like I was wrong all the time. Then I found the clip of him vs Ant. 1/9 FG, let's watch this performance together:

Watch on YouTube

0:10 - Ant easily beats him 1-on-1 off the dribble but blows an easy layup.

0:20 - Ant almost beats him off the dribble again, OG is behind and tries to recover. He slightly pushes/bodies Ant as he jumps for the floater - it is a foul 90% of the time "by NBA standards". A non-call this time. I'm not a fan of these calls though.

0:30 - Ant makes contact and IMHO flops to get a call. He started to get these "superstar" calls a lot. Good no-call. And props to OG for staying in front.

0:38 - a desperate last 1.5 seconds play - turn around fade away - it's a 15-20% shoot.

0:50 - Ant is fishing for a call again by putting his body between the ball and the defender. Similar to the 0:10 - but this time Ant fails to create separation. Still he misses an easy one as he concentrates on getting the call.

1:00 - in and out - completely open look from the midrange

1:10 - Ant creates an enough separation for a shot but just short. But I think, he's like 30% on these Jordan-like shots in general.

1:18 - Very good defense by OG since he doesn't bite Ant's fake after the dribble.

Well, thanks for watching. All in all, if they play again and have same possessions, it would easily be 3 or 4/8 and a foul instead of 1/9, which is a pretty standard performance by Ant.

Look, I'm not saying OG is a not good defender. He is. It is almost impossible to have such a quick feet, wingspan, and strength and be just an average defender. However, such tweets are generating a huge hype that makes us (non-Raps fans) believe he's killing Ant with his lockdown defense, thus he worth 40m$ even as a role player.

BTW, after we lost to Pelicans third time last night as we failed to match their length, OG discussion had started again. That's why I went to watch his performance against Pelicans and found this one with defensive highlights:

Watch on YouTube

Another thing I heard a lot about OG that how he always defends the best opposing player either he's a guard or a center (exaggeration to indicate his versatility, I know). This is something big, and generates a hype. In this clip though, he defends CJ McCollum when Ingram is on the court, Murphy III when CJ McCollum is on the court, Josh Richardson when both CJ and Ingram are on the court, Naji Marshall when CJ is on the court, and in only one position he defends Ingram.

TBH I was expecting to see some lockdown defense on Ingram when I saw "defensive highlights" in the title, to no avail. Our problem is to defend long-strong wings. Again, these are just two videos, maybe I just randomly come up with such examples against his case, but it is what it is.

To sum up, I don't think, especially with this price tag (multiple 1sts, and 40m$ extension -> luxury tax), it's a game changer to replace Barnes (+ say three 1st) with OG.

[madskillz8]

This team needs to find its Aaron Gordon. Or Andrew Wiggins.

My aint gonna happen list is:
JJJ
Jabari Smith Jr
Herb Jones

Realistic Top Targets
OG
Pascal
Portis

Beggers Can't Be Choosers
John Collins
Royce
TJ Warren

While Jabari Smith Jr. - Herb Jones - OG are good targets (not considering the cost to get them), I think JJJ is the one who immediately would make the Kings world champions. He lacks rebounding, but who needs that with Sabonis on the floor. Imagine the line up of Fox - Huerter - Keegan - JJJ - Sabonis, perfect blend of size, defense, shooting while playing a similar offense.

Let's say, Morant did something stupid again and Grizzlies decided to blow it up to collect as many assets as possible.

What would be the price for getting JJJ to Kings? Especially without moving Keegan.

Would you pay four FRPs + Barnes, Mitchell, Colby for him? Do not forget he has serious injury history.

[codydaze]

This team needs to find its Aaron Gordon. Or Andrew Wiggins.

My aint gonna happen list is:
JJJ
Jabari Smith Jr
Herb Jones

Realistic Top Targets
OG
Pascal
Portis

Beggers Can't Be Choosers
John Collins
Royce
TJ Warren

While Jabari Smith Jr. - Herb Jones - OG are good targets (not considering the cost to get them), I think JJJ is the one who immediately would make the Kings world champions. He lacks rebounding, but who needs that with Sabonis on the floor. Imagine the line up of Fox - Huerter - Keegan - JJJ - Sabonis, perfect blend of size, defense, shooting while playing a similar offense.

Let's say, Morant did something stupid again and Grizzlies decided to blow it up to collect as many assets as possible.

What would be the price for getting JJJ to Kings? Especially without moving Keegan.

Would you pay four FRPs + Barnes, Mitchell, Colby for him? Do not forget he has serious injury history.

I would without hesitation but I think that offer would get beat on the market. If JJJ were to get traded, I'm almost certain there would need to be a blue chip prospect in whatever the package ends up being.

[codydaze]

Another guy I'd really be interested in is Deandre Hunter. Curious as to what his availability is and what the cost might be.

[OxAndFox]

This team needs to find its Aaron Gordon. Or Andrew Wiggins.

My aint gonna happen list is:
JJJ
Jabari Smith Jr
Herb Jones

Realistic Top Targets
OG
Pascal
Portis

Beggers Can't Be Choosers
John Collins
Royce
TJ Warren

While Jabari Smith Jr. - Herb Jones - OG are good targets (not considering the cost to get them), I think JJJ is the one who immediately would make the Kings world champions. He lacks rebounding, but who needs that with Sabonis on the floor. Imagine the line up of Fox - Huerter - Keegan - JJJ - Sabonis, perfect blend of size, defense, shooting while playing a similar offense.

Let's say, Morant did something stupid again and Grizzlies decided to blow it up to collect as many assets as possible.

What would be the price for getting JJJ to Kings? Especially without moving Keegan.

Would you pay four FRPs + Barnes, Mitchell, Colby for him? Do not forget he has serious injury history.

The reason those guys are in the aint gonna happen list is because the Kings simply don't have the assets available to get any of them. Maybe Herb, but he would have a lot of teams trying to put a package together for him.

Monte has been a scrap heap type of guy so I wouldn't be surprised if he goes that route again unless its an all in trade. So not sure if there is a trade of say Barnes and 1 pick for an upgrade.
The problem with going for the scrap heap is you have to play them so they can lift value. Edwards hasn't played enough and Duarte is new.

[BoogieTime]

This team needs to find its Aaron Gordon. Or Andrew Wiggins.

My aint gonna happen list is:
JJJ
Jabari Smith Jr
Herb Jones

Realistic Top Targets
OG
Pascal
Portis

Beggers Can't Be Choosers
John Collins
Royce
TJ Warren

While Jabari Smith Jr. - Herb Jones - OG are good targets (not considering the cost to get them), I think JJJ is the one who immediately would make the Kings world champions. He lacks rebounding, but who needs that with Sabonis on the floor. Imagine the line up of Fox - Huerter - Keegan - JJJ - Sabonis, perfect blend of size, defense, shooting while playing a similar offense.

Let's say, Morant did something stupid again and Grizzlies decided to blow it up to collect as many assets as possible.

What would be the price for getting JJJ to Kings? Especially without moving Keegan.

Would you pay four FRPs + Barnes, Mitchell, Colby for him? Do not forget he has serious injury history.

The reason those guys are in the aint gonna happen list is because the Kings simply don't have the assets available to get any of them. Maybe Herb, but he would have a lot of teams trying to put a package together for him.

Monte has been a scrap heap type of guy so I wouldn't be surprised if he goes that route again unless its an all in trade. So not sure if there is a trade of say Barnes and 1 pick for an upgrade.
The problem with going for the scrap heap is you have to play them so they can lift value. Edwards hasn't played enough and Duarte is new.

How is OG realistic? and more realistic than Jones?

I think the Raptor fan illustrated how they feel about him and rate him. He’s going to be a UFA. The Raptors would want to keep him if they aren’t totally rebuilding. If they are rebuilding someone is giving up a lot of quality

Keegan would be the first name, and if you wouldn’t give him up for a UFA, it would be serious draft capital. Draft capital in the future from a possibly contending team. Hate to think of it for a UFA when you could just try a more limited role playing option

[OxAndFox]

While Jabari Smith Jr. - Herb Jones - OG are good targets (not considering the cost to get them), I think JJJ is the one who immediately would make the Kings world champions. He lacks rebounding, but who needs that with Sabonis on the floor. Imagine the line up of Fox - Huerter - Keegan - JJJ - Sabonis, perfect blend of size, defense, shooting while playing a similar offense.

Let's say, Morant did something stupid again and Grizzlies decided to blow it up to collect as many assets as possible.

What would be the price for getting JJJ to Kings? Especially without moving Keegan.

Would you pay four FRPs + Barnes, Mitchell, Colby for him? Do not forget he has serious injury history.

The reason those guys are in the aint gonna happen list is because the Kings simply don't have the assets available to get any of them. Maybe Herb, but he would have a lot of teams trying to put a package together for him.

Monte has been a scrap heap type of guy so I wouldn't be surprised if he goes that route again unless its an all in trade. So not sure if there is a trade of say Barnes and 1 pick for an upgrade.
The problem with going for the scrap heap is you have to play them so they can lift value. Edwards hasn't played enough and Duarte is new.

How is OG realistic? and more realistic than Jones?

I think the Raptor fan illustrated how they feel about him and rate him. He’s going to be a UFA. The Raptors would want to keep him if they aren’t totally rebuilding. If they are rebuilding someone is giving up a lot of quality

Keegan would be the first name, and if you wouldn’t give him up for a UFA, it would be serious draft capital. Draft capital in the future from a possibly contending team. Hate to think of it for a UFA when you could just try a more limited role playing option

The Rapors aren't going to get a good prospect for OG. They just won't. Not for 50 games. They will get draft capital which the Kings can match what the going rate for him will be. Whether that's 1-2-3 picks is up for debate, but the Kings can do that, if it goes over, move on to the next target, but Herb is on another level, as a package.
He is locked up on one of, if not THE best contract compared to output in the NBA outside of superstars.
Has there been a better perimeter defender than Jones from the get go in the NBA?
Seriously, 4/53m. That is what sets franchises up. Getting a guy locked in on a long term deal that is insanely underpaid. A lock down defender that can shoot the 3 (still needs to work on it though), pass a little and is an ok rebounder. Fantastic teammate from all reports and for the most part has been healthy.
I think Herb will make the All NBA defensive team this season, along with OG who I would say is the leading contender for defensive player of the year award outside of big men ie Gobert.
Would you pay more for 50-60 games of the slightly better player, or 220-250 games of the other.

[BoogieTime]

Monk has become so important that I think you can't play around with counting on the early bird rights with a couple of the teams out here with possible cap possibly needing a sg.

it was the wrong move from McNair to pickup the extensions of Mitchell and Duarte, and the Barnes contract is becoming iffy... I think he might be saving those contracts for a big trade but otherwise I'd try to move them all for expirings to get below the cap

[OxAndFox]

Monk has become so important that I think you can't play around with counting on the early bird rights with a couple of the teams out here with possible cap possibly needing a sg.

it was the wrong move from McNair to pickup the extensions of Mitchell and Duarte, and the Barnes contract is becoming iffy... I think he might be saving those contracts for a big trade but otherwise I'd try to move them all for expirings to get below the cap

Don't worry about Monk. NBA players want money, role, success. Monk will get those 3 here and he is playing with his best mate and a great bunch of dudes.
Listen to how Malik speaks and he is a humble country guy that is appreciative. He is appreciative the Kings put faith into him. I would put Monk not being in a Kings jersey next season at 0.01%.
You doubted with Sabonis. You keep on doubting what is happening in Sacramento. Watch what happens in the next 12-18 months.

[blind prophet]

I've thought about the Barnes play more lately. I still don't think he is the weak link, as stated above. But the best thing for the team is a very good defender with an outside shot.

Barnes is more skilled than that, but certainly not a very good defender.

Weird situation.

[OxAndFox]

I've thought about the Barnes play more lately. I still don't think he is the weak link, as stated above. But the best thing for the team is a very good defender with an outside shot.

Barnes is more skilled than that, but certainly not a very good defender.

Weird situation.

Think at this stage there is always going to be someone out of Barnes/Huerter either not getting enough looks or not hitting. Tonight was Huerter.