Potential sleepers

Upperclass · Post #721 » by **Upperclass** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:09 am

^ Top 5 in the Dleague draft

The-Power · Post #722 » by **The-Power** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:13 am

BoyzNTheHood wrote:
BoyzNTheHood wrote:Any info on Reggie Upshaw from Middle Tennessee State? He seems to fit the mold of a sleeper. 6'8" 230 small forward with the clutch gene who has been the main factor in a Cinderella taking out Michigan State last year and Minnesota this year.

No info on this guy? Where are the gurus?

What makes you think he has a shot at being solid at the next level? Clutch gene and stuff like that aren't real things that I'd be interested in.

He's a Senior who's not a good shooter and has been inconsistent as a scorer (to put it mildly because he's been inefficient for his first three years). Not elite at anything else and while I haven't seen much of Middle Tennessee - most probably haven't which is why nobody has responded yet - he didn't struck me as a great athlete or lock-down defender from what I remember.

Why would he be appealing to NBA teams in your eyes? Seems like most of the argument revolves around two games in March - and in the following games he played rather poorly both times (not showing that 'clutch gene'). That's not going to cut it.

BoyzNTheHood · Post #723 » by **BoyzNTheHood** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:24 am

The-Power wrote:
BoyzNTheHood wrote:
BoyzNTheHood wrote:Any info on Reggie Upshaw from Middle Tennessee State? He seems to fit the mold of a sleeper. 6'8" 230 small forward with the clutch gene who has been the main factor in a Cinderella taking out Michigan State last year and Minnesota this year.

No info on this guy? Where are the gurus?

What makes you think he has a shot at being solid at the next level? Clutch gene and stuff like that aren't real things that I'd be interested in.

He's a Senior who's not a good shooter and has been inconsistent as a scorer (to put it mildly because he's been inefficient for his first three years). Not elite at anything else and while I haven't seen much of Middle Tennessee - most probably haven't which is why nobody has responded yet - he didn't struck me as a great athlete or lock-down defender from what I remember.

Why would he be appealing to NBA teams in your eyes? Seems like most of the argument revolves around two games in March - and in the following games he played rather poorly both times (not showing that 'clutch gene'). That's not going to cut it.

I asked because I don't know. No need to be snappy.

The-Power · Post #724 » by **The-Power** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:38 am

BoyzNTheHood wrote:
The-Power wrote:
BoyzNTheHood wrote:
No info on this guy? Where are the gurus?

What makes you think he has a shot at being solid at the next level? Clutch gene and stuff like that aren't real things that I'd be interested in.

He's a Senior who's not a good shooter and has been inconsistent as a scorer (to put it mildly because he's been inefficient for his first three years). Not elite at anything else and while I haven't seen much of Middle Tennessee - most probably haven't which is why nobody has responded yet - he didn't struck me as a great athlete or lock-down defender from what I remember.

Why would he be appealing to NBA teams in your eyes? Seems like most of the argument revolves around two games in March - and in the following games he played rather poorly both times (not showing that 'clutch gene'). That's not going to cut it.

I asked because I don't know. No need to be snappy.

Wasn't meant to be snappy. I apologize if I came across that way.

Since you mentioned him I assumed you considered him a sleeper - or potential sleeper at least - and by looking at the numbers and recalling the games I've seen I just don't see a reason to consider him a potential NBA player. I thought you had something in mind when you brought him up and if that's the case I'm genuinely interested to know why. If not then well, the reason he isn't being talked about at all as a potential pick is probably because the package really doesn't seem to be appealing for others either.

Tiggo Bitties · Post #725 » by **Tiggo Bitties** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:52 am

RipCity71252 wrote:
shawn_hemp wrote:
RipCity71252 wrote:
We are on the same page here and actually noted Altman's philosophy playing a part in a blazers-related forum. When I watch Bell I don't see a guy the reads the game defensively at a very high level, and isn't even overly competitive on that end. Adding to the examples you gave, I've seen multiple lazy closeouts w/ no contest... no contest on a bunch of perimeter drives where he'll instead focus on grabbing a potential miss. Just troubling stuff for a guy that's already an undersized/offensively limited prospect.

Sure he'll fly around and make plays, but there's something missing there that I quickly picked up on once I started keying in on him the last few days.

To say he shouldn't be drafted is kind of harsh though.

Might be, but I just don't see the value he brings unless he shoots 3's and all indications show he'll have a small % chance of developing that skill.

Guys with his current skillset at his size just don't exist anymore with Dante Cunningham probably being the closest comp you'll find. Bell is clearly the better vertical athlete, but Dante was roughly his equal laterally and had better stretch indicators plus a higher defensive IQ coming out of Villanova.

Dante Cunningham... c'mon. Cunningham averaged .8 blocks a game in his 4 year college career. He only averaged over 1 block a game his senior season with 1.2 bpg. Bell averaged 2.7 bpg his freshman season and 1.7 and 2.2 soph. and junior years. Bell is a way more explosive athlete around the rim compared to Cunningham. Not worth being drafted is a huge stretch.

EvanZ · Post #726 » by **EvanZ** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:31 pm

Seems like John Collins will be a steal if he falls out of the top 10.

Post #727 » by **GimmeDat** » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:05 am

EvanZ wrote:Seems like John Collins will be a steal if he falls out of the top 10.

For me it comes down to can he play C? I don't think he can - he's listed at 6'10 with a 6'8 wingspan. Yes he's athletic but that seems to make him a PF, and I'm not sure he has the required skill-level to be an effective PF in this day and age. He's a lot less attractive to me as a PF prospect.

EvanZ · Post #728 » by **EvanZ** » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:39 am

GimmeDat wrote:
EvanZ wrote:Seems like John Collins will be a steal if he falls out of the top 10.

For me it comes down to can he play C? I don't think he can - he's listed at 6'10 with a 6'8 wingspan. Yes he's athletic but that seems to make him a PF, and I'm not sure he has the required skill-level to be an effective PF in this day and age. He's a lot less attractive to me as a PF prospect.

I see 6'8" wingspan on DX, but it's from 2013 (where he apparently measured 6'7" in socks, so roughly 6'8.5" in shoes). I would imagine it's quite a few inches longer now. Unless you saw a more recent measurement somewhere else? I'd wait on the combine to clear this up.

EvanZ · Post #729 » by **EvanZ** » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:56 am

Ivan Rabb another potential steal if he falls outside the lottery.

No-Man · Post #730 » by **No-Man** » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:30 pm

EvanZ wrote:Seems like John Collins will be a steal if he falls out of the top 10.

Man I get that you love yourself some advanced numbers but the models need to REALLY put in some type of correction for player skillset/archetypes, drafting John Collins anywhere near the top10 is not a good idea.

Post #731 » by **Ruzious** » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:53 pm

Fischella wrote:
EvanZ wrote:Seems like John Collins will be a steal if he falls out of the top 10.

Man I get that you love yourself some advanced numbers but the models need to REALLY put in some type of correction for player skillset/archetypes, drafting John Collins anywhere near the top10 is not a good idea.

I think you're both wrong - though I lean more towards EvanZ. 10 is right around where he should go - though I still need to see how long he measures before finalizing my view. As Evan nicely said, people need to stop using his age 16 length number. He's 19 and continues to get stronger. And he runs the court as well as any big in college ball.

Cammo101 · Post #732 » by **Cammo101** » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:04 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Fischella wrote:
EvanZ wrote:Seems like John Collins will be a steal if he falls out of the top 10.

Man I get that you love yourself some advanced numbers but the models need to REALLY put in some type of correction for player skillset/archetypes, drafting John Collins anywhere near the top10 is not a good idea.

I think you're both wrong - though I lean more towards EvanZ. 10 is right around where he should go - though I still need to see how long he measures before finalizing my view. As Evan nicely said, people need to stop using his age 16 length number. He's 19 and continues to get stronger. And he runs the court as well as any big in college ball.

With Collins, it is going to come down to whether he can defend at a higher level without fouling. Offensively, he has NBA ready skills. But, he is a mess defensively and fouls at a high rate. #10 seems a bit early for Collins, but it wouldn't surprise me if he was picked in the back of the lottery somewhere. He better put the work in defensively though, or he could flush out of the NBA.

No-Man · Post #733 » by **No-Man** » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:05 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Fischella wrote:
EvanZ wrote:Seems like John Collins will be a steal if he falls out of the top 10.

Man I get that you love yourself some advanced numbers but the models need to REALLY put in some type of correction for player skillset/archetypes, drafting John Collins anywhere near the top10 is not a good idea.

I think you're both wrong - though I lean more towards EvanZ. 10 is right around where he should go - though I still need to see how long he measures before finalizing my view. As Evan nicely said, people need to stop using his age 16 length number. He's 19 and continues to get stronger. And he runs the court as well as any big in college ball.

that's all great, he might be a good big bench alla Brandan Wright, drafting that value-wise anywhere near the top10 is a mistake, the guy doesnt shoot it from anywhere further than the midpost, doesnt even think about passing, and is trapped between positions defensively, he is a stay away type of big even with his production.

I am sure he is going to be a fine NBA player, if anything models tend to be able to identify those, and also discard those who aren't, but his production doesnt traslate into upside.

EvanZ · Post #734 » by **EvanZ** » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:35 pm

LMAO. Since when does "falling out of the top 10" = "anywhere near 10"? Obviously, my point was that the further he falls from 10 the more of a steal he will be. If he falls to 11, then it's not much of a steal. If he falls to 18, that's a potential steal.

Nothing controversial here guys. Don't make fake news where there isn't any. Why does it seem everyone on RealGM takes every comment as an invitation to start a fight or troll? It's ridiculous. Just talk about the player and leave the bull home.

TBH, Collins reminds me a bit of how I saw Tristan Thompson coming out of college, and Collins might be ahead of him skill-wise. Not sure if he has the same motor though.

Post #735 » by **Ruzious** » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:31 pm

EvanZ wrote:LMAO. Since when does "falling out of the top 10" = "anywhere near 10"? Obviously, my point was that the further he falls from 10 the more of a steal he will be. If he falls to 11, then it's not much of a steal. If he falls to 18, that's a potential steal.

Nothing controversial here guys. Don't make fake news where there isn't any. Why does it seem everyone on RealGM takes every comment as an invitation to start a fight or troll? It's ridiculous. Just talk about the player and leave the bull home.

TBH, Collins reminds me a bit of how I saw Tristan Thompson coming out of college, and Collins might be ahead of him skill-wise. Not sure if he has the same motor though.

I thought it was a pretty good discussion - with strong takes rather than a fight. Cammo does bring up a good point that he's got a serious fouling problem and defensive issues - though as bad as they are - he's much improved over last season, so I see hope there for continued improvement. He was so effective scoring in the lane almost at will in college that he never had to show an outside shot or passing skills, so I'm looking forward to seeing him develop those skills - rather than assuming he won't. The workouts he'll have with teams should be interesting - Kawhi Leonard is the prime example.

moss_is_1 · Post #736 » by **moss_is_1** » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:24 pm

Can Frank Mason be a rotational player in the NBA?

Cammo101 · Post #737 » by **Cammo101** » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:21 pm

moss_is_1 wrote:Can Frank Mason be a rotational player in the NBA?

Absolutely. He can be a starter.

Post #738 » by **GimmeDat** » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:36 pm

I disagree about starter, but I think he could be a back up.

Cammo101 · Post #739 » by **Cammo101** » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:41 pm

GimmeDat wrote:I disagree about starter, but I think he could be a back up.

Why do you think he can't be a starter?

Post #740 » by **GimmeDat** » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:49 pm

Cammo101 wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:I disagree about starter, but I think he could be a back up.

Why do you think he can't be a starter?

Bit too physically outmatched, more than anything. He's a 5'11 senior.

He's certainly skilled enough to carve a niche for himself in the league, but if you look at a guy like Juwan Evans, whose younger, bigger and has much higher stock, even he I would project to be a back up (a high level one though).

You never know with the little guys though. For every guy that seems outmatched, you get your Yogi Ferrell's that work out.