Joel Embiid

[black bart]

7 ft with 7'5 wingspan. Those are enough to get him top 10. He is probably the most developed Cs in his freshmen year. More than adams, and Drummond and a better athlete than Noel. It is rare to see someone like Randle ahead of Embiid but by draft time athleticism will matter and that will probably put him ahead of randle.

[TheSuzerain]

Embiid's per 40 stats are in line with Frosh Oden.

Will be interesting if he can maintain that as his minutes rise.

[noobcake]

I can't believe you guys are seriously considering taking him over Randle, Wiggins, or Parker. The GM would get slammed if Embiid wasn't producing right away and those guys looked like all-stars early on, this would also shatter Embiid's confidence.

GM's don't draft based on who will have the best rookie season, they pick who they think will best help them win titles in the long run.

You want to see a GM get slammed, imagine one giving this interview late on draft night:

Reporter: "Some people thought Embiid would go #1. Tell us your reasoning for choosing player B instead."

GM with #1 pick: "Well, I think Embiid is going to be the better and more important player in the long run, but I decided to draft player B because I think player B will look better right away as a rookie."

Reporter: "You only won 20 games last year. Shouldn't you have drafted the player who you thought would be best in the long run?"

GM: "No, I felt it was more important to just focus on the near-term. I think player B will probably help us win more games next year than Embiid would have. With player B, I think we have a chance to get up around .500 and battle for the 8th seed."

Reporter: "But if you think Embiid will be better and more important, wouldn't Embiid give your team a better chance of winning titles in the long run?"

GM: "Of course. But like I said, my primary goal isn't winning titles, it's trying to maximize our win total in the near-term. I think player B will look like an all-star right away, so even though I think Embiid will be better down the road and would give our team better odds of winning titles down the road, I chose player B."

Reporter: "So you're not trying to maximize your odds of winning titles?"

GM: "Correct. That's a secondary concern."


Can you imagine that? I think media and fans would utterly destroy a GM for adhering to such reasoning. If a GM thinks Embiid is the player whose addition maximizes the odds of that franchise winning titles, then the GM is obligated to draft him. It's one thing to skip him if you don't think he'll maximize your odds of winning titles, but it's a bad move if you do think he'll maximize those odds and you skip him to get a lesser player because you think the lesser player will put up better rookie scoring stats.

Also, one of Embiid's strengths is his strong mind. He doesn't strike me at all as someone with a frail mind who would have his confidence destroyed if a fellow draftee started playing at an all-star level before he did. All the evidence points to the opposite: look at the great attitude he's displaying at Kansas this year. It's not destroying his confidence that Parker and Randle are getting more minutes and putting up bigger numbers this year in college, and I don't see any indication that his confidence would be destroyed if Parker and Randle put up bigger numbers as NBA rookies, either.

Ironically, isn't that practically the same justification used by CLE GM Grant to select Bennett over Noel?

Bennett had the highest potential in the last draft. Raw potential doesn't always pan out. Not saying Bennett is a bust, but give him at least a season.

[MojoPharoah]

GM's don't draft based on who will have the best rookie season, they pick who they think will best help them win titles in the long run.

You want to see a GM get slammed, imagine one giving this interview late on draft night:

Reporter: "Some people thought Embiid would go #1. Tell us your reasoning for choosing player B instead."

GM with #1 pick: "Well, I think Embiid is going to be the better and more important player in the long run, but I decided to draft player B because I think player B will look better right away as a rookie."

Reporter: "You only won 20 games last year. Shouldn't you have drafted the player who you thought would be best in the long run?"

GM: "No, I felt it was more important to just focus on the near-term. I think player B will probably help us win more games next year than Embiid would have. With player B, I think we have a chance to get up around .500 and battle for the 8th seed."

Reporter: "But if you think Embiid will be better and more important, wouldn't Embiid give your team a better chance of winning titles in the long run?"

GM: "Of course. But like I said, my primary goal isn't winning titles, it's trying to maximize our win total in the near-term. I think player B will look like an all-star right away, so even though I think Embiid will be better down the road and would give our team better odds of winning titles down the road, I chose player B."

Reporter: "So you're not trying to maximize your odds of winning titles?"

GM: "Correct. That's a secondary concern."


Can you imagine that? I think media and fans would utterly destroy a GM for adhering to such reasoning. If a GM thinks Embiid is the player whose addition maximizes the odds of that franchise winning titles, then the GM is obligated to draft him. It's one thing to skip him if you don't think he'll maximize your odds of winning titles, but it's a bad move if you do think he'll maximize those odds and you skip him to get a lesser player because you think the lesser player will put up better rookie scoring stats.

Also, one of Embiid's strengths is his strong mind. He doesn't strike me at all as someone with a frail mind who would have his confidence destroyed if a fellow draftee started playing at an all-star level before he did. All the evidence points to the opposite: look at the great attitude he's displaying at Kansas this year. It's not destroying his confidence that Parker and Randle are getting more minutes and putting up bigger numbers this year in college, and I don't see any indication that his confidence would be destroyed if Parker and Randle put up bigger numbers as NBA rookies, either.

Ironically, isn't that practically the same justification used by CLE GM Grant to select Bennett over Noel?

Bennett had the highest potential in the last draft. Raw potential doesn't always pan out. Not saying Bennett is a bust, but give him at least a season.

Bennett is an athletic tweener who had potential offensively but questions defensively, w/o a true position, and his likely best position was already taken on the team. Noel is a dominant defensive player and potential offensive complementary piece (a la Tyson Chandler or Noah) who was a better fit and projected to be better. There was a reason why Noel was projected to go 1 for months before the draft, and the only questions were regarding health, not talent or ceiling.

Grant picked the guy he thought would help him best today, because they still had the LeBron pipe dream of creating a place with a bunch of young talent to tempt him with. It was a bad decision at the time, and grows worse by the day.

[CablexDeadpool]

7 ft with 7'5 wingspan. Those are enough to get him top 10. He is probably the most developed Cs in his freshmen year. More than adams, and Drummond and a better athlete than Noel. It is rare to see someone like Randle ahead of Embiid but by draft time athleticism will matter and that will probably put him ahead of randle.

Embiid is not a better athlete than Noel are you crazy

Noel is like a 7 foot track athlete

[boogie-reke]

Embiid's per 40 stats are in line with Frosh Oden.

Will be interesting if he can maintain that as his minutes rise.

Frosh and Soph Hakeem aswell.

Bar the better block numbers for soph Hakeem, the resembles between his per 40 that year and Embiid's so far is stunning.

[noobcake]

Ironically, isn't that practically the same justification used by CLE GM Grant to select Bennett over Noel?

Bennett had the highest potential in the last draft. Raw potential doesn't always pan out. Not saying Bennett is a bust, but give him at least a season.

Bennett is an athletic tweener who had potential offensively but questions defensively, w/o a true position, and his likely best position was already taken on the team. Noel is a dominant defensive player and potential offensive complementary piece (a la Tyson Chandler or Noah) who was a better fit and projected to be better. There was a reason why Noel was projected to go 1 for months before the draft, and the only questions were regarding health, not talent or ceiling.

Grant picked the guy he thought would help him best today, because they still had the LeBron pipe dream of creating a place with a bunch of young talent to tempt him with. It was a bad decision at the time, and grows worse by the day.

Noel's knee busted wide open and killed his potential.

[boogie-reke]

Embiid's per 40 stats are in line with Frosh Oden.

Will be interesting if he can maintain that as his minutes rise.

Frosh and Soph Hakeem aswell.

Bar the better block numbers for soph Hakeem, the resembles between his per 40 that year and Embiid's so far is stunning.

(Per 40 stats)

Frosh Hakeem : 18.1 pts / 13.5 rebs / 5.4 blks / 0.8 asts / 2.0 stls / 3.1 TOs / 6.4 PFs / 60.7 FG% / 56.3 FT%

Frosh Embiid : 20.8 pts / 15.9 rebs / 5.2 blks / 2.6 asts / 1.3 stls / 3.3 TOs / 7.8 PFs / 67.6 FG% / 56 FT%

They were pretty much at the same age, and in the same situation minute-wise too, with Hakeem averaging just 18mpg that year.

Soph Hakeem : 20.3 pts / 16.7 rebs / 7.5 blks / 1.2 asts / 2.0 stls / 3.4 TOs / 4.8 PFs / 61.1 FG% / 59.5 FT%

[Iplaytolose]

I think the main, but simple thing that I noticed about Embiid is that he makes quick decisions with ball once he has it. A lot of post players are missing that in the NBA.

[Big_C_KU]

To me the best thing about Embiid is his biggest problem is understanding the game. That comes with repetition and good coaching which is something he'll get at KU and in the NBA. His post skills are already advanced for a player his age with limited experience and touch around basket is tremendous. Shows great form so shooting consistency should only get better. He has three potential to be the best 2 way C in the league in 5-6 years. I really think he could be a combination of the Gasol brothers.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[CBB_Fan]

What is nice is that Embiid is clearly making advancements in each game. Every single game he's shown new facets of his game, whether that be outlet passing (Towson), or a post game (Villanova) or blocking shots (UTEP). I think that will be a very important factor in him developing to his potential. If he can keep improving his game like this he'll become a very good player.

The two main things he needs to work on right now are fouls and FT shooting. Many big man have made bad FT shooting a career long endeavor, but hopefully with Embiid it is more a matter of repetition than mechanics. His form looks acceptable, but he is far behind the average player in terms of reps behind the line because of how late he started playing. Hopefully he develops more like Hakeem (from 50ish% in college to up to 78.7% as a pro) than Shaq.

On fouling, I think the biggest contributor are the new rules in basketball. The majority of the added fouls have been blocks, and Embiid has received more than his fair share. Hopefully he quickly learns that any slight body contact will be called a block call with the new rules in the college game, even if the offensive player is completely out of control.

But again, he has shown a lot of promise.

[MojoPharoah]

Bennett had the highest potential in the last draft. Raw potential doesn't always pan out. Not saying Bennett is a bust, but give him at least a season.

Bennett is an athletic tweener who had potential offensively but questions defensively, w/o a true position, and his likely best position was already taken on the team. Noel is a dominant defensive player and potential offensive complementary piece (a la Tyson Chandler or Noah) who was a better fit and projected to be better. There was a reason why Noel was projected to go 1 for months before the draft, and the only questions were regarding health, not talent or ceiling.

Grant picked the guy he thought would help him best today, because they still had the LeBron pipe dream of creating a place with a bunch of young talent to tempt him with. It was a bad decision at the time, and grows worse by the day.

Noel's knee busted wide open and killed his potential.

Nope. Noel was still projected at 1 even with the Knee surgery, because it went great. His surgeon, James Andrew, is considered the GOAT at this type of surgery and went on record regarding Noel's health and future prognosis. The only 'complication' was that he would not ready to start the year, might miss half the year. That scared some GMs because they were on a 'Win-Now' kick(i.e. CLE, WAS, NOPE, CHA), so they could not afford any patience.

[SBM]

His per minute numbers are really nice. One reason I never liked Meyers Leonard was because it is about what you do with the time you are getting and Leonard was trash as a freshman with the minutes he was getting. As long as his per minute production rivals that of Drummond and De-Andre Jordan as a freshman I can't see him not being a lottery pick

[MellowRose]

What is nice is that Embiid is clearly making advancements in each game. Every single game he's shown new facets of his game, whether that be outlet passing (Towson), or a post game (Villanova) or blocking shots (UTEP). I think that will be a very important factor in him developing to his potential. If he can keep improving his game like this he'll become a very good player.

The two main things he needs to work on right now are fouls and FT shooting. Many big man have made bad FT shooting a career long endeavor, but hopefully with Embiid it is more a matter of repetition than mechanics. His form looks acceptable, but he is far behind the average player in terms of reps behind the line because of how late he started playing. Hopefully he develops more like Hakeem (from 50ish% in college to up to 78.7% as a pro) than Shaq.

On fouling, I think the biggest contributor are the new rules in basketball. The majority of the added fouls have been blocks, and Embiid has received more than his fair share. Hopefully he quickly learns that any slight body contact will be called a block call with the new rules in the college game, even if the offensive player is completely out of control.

But again, he has shown a lot of promise.

If you were the GM for the Magic, what would your draft board look like both outside of the top 3 (Jabar, Randle, and WIggins)?

Without top 3

1. Smart
2. Embiid
3. Exum
4. ???
5. ???

With top 3:
1. Wiggins
2. Jabari
3. Randle
4. Smart
5. Embiid
6. Exum

Look about right, in your opinion.

[sikma42]

What is nice is that Embiid is clearly making advancements in each game. Every single game he's shown new facets of his game, whether that be outlet passing (Towson), or a post game (Villanova) or blocking shots (UTEP). I think that will be a very important factor in him developing to his potential. If he can keep improving his game like this he'll become a very good player.

The two main things he needs to work on right now are fouls and FT shooting. Many big man have made bad FT shooting a career long endeavor, but hopefully with Embiid it is more a matter of repetition than mechanics. His form looks acceptable, but he is far behind the average player in terms of reps behind the line because of how late he started playing. Hopefully he develops more like Hakeem (from 50ish% in college to up to 78.7% as a pro) than Shaq.

On fouling, I think the biggest contributor are the new rules in basketball. The majority of the added fouls have been blocks, and Embiid has received more than his fair share. Hopefully he quickly learns that any slight body contact will be called a block call with the new rules in the college game, even if the offensive player is completely out of control.

But again, he has shown a lot of promise.

If you were the GM for the Magic, what would your draft board look like both outside of the top 3 (Jabar, Randle, and WIggins)?

Without top 3

1. Smart
2. Embiid
3. Exum
4. ???
5. ???

With top 3:
1. Wiggins
2. Jabari
3. Randle
4. Smart
5. Embiid
6. Exum

Look about right, in your opinion.

I would def take Embiid over Randle off of what I've seen thus far. Same with Exum. I haven't enough of Smart.

As far as the top three...right now it's a toss up. Not taking Wiggins could get you fired. I'd prob go

1. Wiggins
2. Parker
3. Embiid

But I'm not sold on Wiggins quite yet. At least he guaranteed 1st ballot HOFer hype.


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[noobcake]

Slow down with the Hakeem comparisons

There hasn't been a single prospect anywhere close to Hakeem any of the past 10-20 years. If you actually think about, even in the golden age of NBA bigs, we never saw another Hakeem type prospect.

Taking a C is almost always a giant gamble.

This is my top 5 rights now.

1. Parker (Can't miss talent, Melo/Pierce)
2. Randle (Zbo/Odom)
3. Emiid (Raw african big, might end up with Thabeet, might end up with Mutombo, Hakeem, who knows)
4. Wiggins (Ceiling as a MKG/Gay, handles too deficient, mentality too passive to become superstar in NBA)
5. Smart (Payton/Wade)

I don't know anything about Exum, but he is apparently very legit.

[OleSchool]

Slow down with the Hakeem comparisons

There hasn't been a single prospect anywhere close to Hakeem one of these years. If you actually think about, even in the golden age of NBA bigs, we never saw another Hakeem type prospect.

Taking a C is almost always a giant gamble.

This is my top 5 rights now.

1. Parker (Can't miss talent, Melo/Pierce)
2. Randle (Zbo/Odom)
3. Emiid (Raw african big, might end up with Thabeet, might end up with Mutombo, Hakeem, who knows)
4. Wiggins (Ceiling as a MKG/Gay, handles too deficient, mentality too passive to become superstar in NBA)
5. Smart (Payton/Wade)

I don't know anything about Exum, but he is apparently very legit.

And 1 for the list, pretty much sums up the way I'm feeling about the draft. Except Im torn on what I think of Randle. Worried about his low post game translating to the pros. Don't know if can't bully down low if he won't start float to the 3 point line

[CBB_Fan]

Slow down with the Hakeem comparisons

There hasn't been a single prospect anywhere close to Hakeem one of these years. If you actually think about, even in the golden age of NBA bigs, we never saw another Hakeem type prospect.

Taking a C is almost always a giant gamble.

This is my top 5 rights now.

1. Parker (Can't miss talent, Melo/Pierce)
2. Randle (Zbo/Odom)
3. Emiid (Raw african big, might end up with Thabeet, might end up with Mutombo, Hakeem, who knows)
4. Wiggins (Ceiling as a MKG/Gay, handles too deficient, mentality too passive to become superstar in NBA)
5. Smart (Payton/Wade)

I don't know anything about Exum, but he is apparently very legit.

I recommend taking a look at Hakeem's college stats. Embiid is compared to Hakeem as a prospect, not as a player, and more specifically he's being compared to Hakeem in his RS freshman and sophomore seasons. Hakeem averaged very similar numbers with a similar skillset.

And again, I question the use of "raw" to describe Embiid. He certainly doesn't completely understand the game, but his per40 numbers are outstanding and he has shown a good post game, along with shotblocking, rebounding, and even a fairly nice passing game.

To compare him a recent 1st overall pick and Hakeem, here are their per40 numbers their freshman seasons:

Anthony Davis: 17.7 PPG (62.3% FG, 70.9% FT), 13 RPG, 5.8 BPG, 1.7 SPG, 1.6 APG
Hakeem Olajuwon(RS FR): 18.1 PPG (60.7% FG, 58.3% FT), 13.5 RPG, 5.4 BPG, 2.0 SPG, 0.8 APG
Hakeem Olajuwon (RS JR): 19.7 PPG (67.5% FG, 52.6% FT), 15.9 RPG, 6.6 BPG, 1.9 SPG, 1.5 APG
Joel Embiid: 20.8 PPG (67.6% FG, 56.0% FT), 15.9 RPG, 5.2 BPG, 1.3 SPG, 2.6 APG

The point is that the comparison of Hakeem as a prospect and Embiid as a prospect is valid. Embiid isn't quite as good on defense as either Davis or Olajuwon, but he is actually ahead of both in per minute offensive stats and still has very good stats on that end.

[SBM]

I think you people need to chill with the raw African center talk. How does him being African put him at more of a disadvantage than any other foreign player? Embiid is doing something that most foreign players don't do, and that is play college basketball so he is getting a head start on the communication thing. I never heard anyone dwell on how Rubio is Spanish player with a underdeveloped jumpshot or how Yao was a Chinese player who would have to learn a new language but you people keep throwing it out here with Embiid.

[noobcake]

I think you people need to chill with the raw African center talk. How does him being African put him at more of a disadvantage than any other foreign player? Embiid is doing something that most foreign players don't do, and that is play college basketball so he is getting a head start on the communication thing. I never heard anyone dwell on how Rubio is Spanish player with a underdeveloped jumpshot or how Yao was a Chinese player who would have to learn a new language but you people keep throwing it out here with Embiid.

Because there are no raw Chinese or raw Spanish bigs. They are funneled into the professional basketball system when they are young. Rubio started playing professionally at age 15. Yao was trained to become a basketball player when he was in elementary school.

Most places in Africa doesn't have these systems. You therefore see a lot of "raw African bigs" who have only start playing basketball in high school.