Derrick Williams vs Terrence Jones at forward?

theboomking · Post #1 » by **theboomking** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:43 pm

I was wondering what everyone's take was on the value of Terrence Jones vs Derrick Williams. With Williams listed at 6'7" and Jones 6'8", both seem to be tweeners to some degree, although both seem to have better length than height. Williams has the highest PER in the country, and is a more explosive athlete. Jones looks like the suprior ball handler and probably shooter as well.

Having watched both a bit, I'm not as high on Jones. He doesn't appear to be a quick twitch type athlete, and looks too slow to transition to SF in the NBA. I'm not sure how well he will translate in the pros against longer 4's.

Williams on the other hand has a different issue in my mind. Although Williams has the athleticism to guard 3's, and has been shooting well this year, his face up game and handle may not be where you would like them to be for a SF.

In any case, I think I lean towards Williams. If he were 3 inches taller, he'd be a lock for the 1st overall pick, but will probably fall a bit due to his perceived tweener status. I think it will be easier for Williams to develop his handle and shot enough to excell at SF, than it would be for Jones to compete against quicker SF's or larger PF's in the pro's. What do you guys think?

mattg · Post #2 » by **mattg** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:54 pm

i don't like playing a limited ball handling 3 at all, I'm not saying I expect LeBron handles, but I like small forwards who can put the ball on the floor and have advanced dribble moves and can bring the ball up the court like a PG if needed. I don't think Williams will ever be that, and I think he's better as a mismatch 4 who can pull big guys out away from the hoop. Jones I think is much more of a 3 than Williams and that's eventually where I expect him to play in the pros with cameos at the 4.

princeofpalace · Post #3 » by **princeofpalace** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:04 pm

For what its worth- Derrick Williams measured out at 6'9' at Lebron Skills Academy

http://www.nbadraft.net/lebron-james-sk ... demy-day-1

theboomking · Post #4 » by **theboomking** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:43 pm

mattg wrote:i don't like playing a limited ball handling 3 at all, I'm not saying I expect LeBron handles, but I like small forwards who can put the ball on the floor and have advanced dribble moves and can bring the ball up the court like a PG if needed. I don't think Williams will ever be that, and I think he's better as a mismatch 4 who can pull big guys out away from the hoop. Jones I think is much more of a 3 than Williams and that's eventually where I expect him to play in the pros with cameos at the 4.

I'm with you on the ball handing, but I differ in my opinion of Jones. I do agree that he may do fine at the 3 on offense, but I think he will be too slow to cover 3's on defense, so if a team is going to play him there, they better have some rim protectors at the 4 and/or 5, playing behind Jones.

princeofpalace wrote:For what its worth- Derrick Williams measured out at 6'9' at Lebron Skills Academy

http://www.nbadraft.net/lebron-james-sk ... demy-day-1

Thanks. I followed the link and Williams is listed as 6'9" with a wingspan of 7'0". I wonder if that height is in shoes or bare feet. Regardless, based on those measuements, Williams would seem to have adequate but not ideal PF height.

Post #5 » by **Ruzious** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:44 pm

I had Jones ahead of Williams, but Williams improved rebounding lately has me leaning towards him. He's averaged 12.2 in his last 5 games. And the guy averages nearly 10 FT's a game. He's gotta be the most efficient scorer in the nation.

TucsonClip · Post #6 » by **TucsonClip** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:39 am

While Williams is the most efficient player in the nation, he also has a lot to work on.

He is terrible of defense and right now wouldnt be able to guard 3s in the NBA, and he still has trouble guarding post players in college. Defense, is the biggest hole in his game right now, because he is really bad at it.

As far as his handles, they need to improve to play SF on the next level, but either way I think he is a combo 4, hands down. His ability to score and get to the foul line on the block and elbow is what is going to keep him in the league for a long time. His shooting has improved and I am sure it will as the years go on, but hes an ideal combo 4, which is what teams seems to be going with now anyway.

Finally, I expect Jones to declare this year, but I am about 90% sure Williams will return to UA next season. He has a legit shot at player of the year, a Final Four run, and has no need/interest to risk missing parts of the season (along with a delayed paycheck) because he loves school and needs to improve on a few things to stick in the NBA.

princeofpalace · Post #7 » by **princeofpalace** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:54 pm

I really dont see any incentive for guys projected to go in the top 10 to return to school, even w/a lockout pending. Don't agents usually pick up the tab until these guys get signed? I bet agents will be make tons of promises to these guys.

Post #8 » by **Ruzious** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:12 pm

princeofpalace wrote:I really dont see any incentive for guys projected to go in the top 10 to return to school, even w/a lockout pending. Don't agents usually pick up the tab until these guys get signed? I bet agents will be make tons of promises to these guys.

I think Chad Ford came to that same conclusion. He said the top 10 Americans and the top Euros will likely come out regardless of a lockout, and most Americans after that will likely not come out. Sorry, Tucson.

NBA Fan 1234 · Post #9 » by **NBA Fan 1234** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:07 pm

Here's an article on Derrick Williams.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NBA ... liams-3624

I haven't seen a lot of him, but he kind of reminds me of a Wilson Chandler-esque combo forward. Whereas Jones, who I've seen a lot of, reminds me of a Lamar Odom type player in that he has a good handle and very good court vision...only thing is, right now he's focused a lot more on scoring.

TucsonClip · Post #10 » by **TucsonClip** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:14 pm

Im not worried about Williams leaving. I know im new here, but I do have my sources at UA.

Williams isnt leaving UA next year to be a 8-13 pick in a lockout year.

With that said, its going to be a calculated risk for some guys. John Henson, the Eruos, Kyrie Irving, Terrance Jones. All these guys can benefit greatly be declaring this year, because they arent going as high next year. At the same time, they all have a great shot at being top 5 picks.

As far as Williams, like I said being a mid to late lotto pick isnt going to get him to leave, when he has a shot at a FInal Four, NPOY, and gets to stay where he is happy (college).

Dr Positivity · Post #11 » by **Dr Positivity** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:21 pm

Both are 4s long term IMO

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #12 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Fri Feb 4, 2011 5:47 am

TucsonClip wrote:Im not worried about Williams leaving. I know im new here, but I do have my sources at UA.

Williams isnt leaving UA next year to be a 8-13 pick in a lockout year.

With that said, its going to be a calculated risk for some guys. John Henson, the Eruos, Kyrie Irving, Terrance Jones. All these guys can benefit greatly be declaring this year, because they arent going as high next year. At the same time, they all have a great shot at being top 5 picks.

As far as Williams, like I said being a mid to late lotto pick isnt going to get him to leave, when he has a shot at a FInal Four, NPOY, and gets to stay where he is happy (college).

Williams will go higher than 8. I think he's possibly the best NCAA player.

How can anyone be sure of a lockout?

I bet he leaves.

King d · Post #13 » by **King d** » Fri Feb 4, 2011 8:29 am

TucsonClip wrote:I am about 90% sure Williams will return to UA next season. He has a legit shot at player of the year, a Final Four run, and has no need/interest to risk missing parts of the season (along with a delayed paycheck) because he loves school and needs to improve on a few things to stick in the NBA.

That is not going to happen, specially when he is going to be a top5 pick almost guaranteed. It would be dumb to stay in college if you are going to be drafted that high

Post #14 » by **Ruzious** » Fri Feb 4, 2011 3:34 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
TucsonClip wrote:Im not worried about Williams leaving. I know im new here, but I do have my sources at UA.

Williams isnt leaving UA next year to be a 8-13 pick in a lockout year.

With that said, its going to be a calculated risk for some guys. John Henson, the Eruos, Kyrie Irving, Terrance Jones. All these guys can benefit greatly be declaring this year, because they arent going as high next year. At the same time, they all have a great shot at being top 5 picks.

As far as Williams, like I said being a mid to late lotto pick isnt going to get him to leave, when he has a shot at a FInal Four, NPOY, and gets to stay where he is happy (college).

Williams will go higher than 8. I think he's possibly the best NCAA player.

How can anyone be sure of a lockout?

I bet he leaves.

I completely agree. If the draft were held today, I'd be shocked if he didn't go top 3. He's not a perfect prospect, but he's got so much offensive ability combined with a high BBIQ and motor. He's the frontcourt player in this draft most likely to play in an NBA all-star game.

Post #15 » by **BigSlam** » Fri Feb 4, 2011 4:05 pm

Williams reminds me of a smarter Hakim Warrick.

T.Jones reminds me of an aggressive and passionate Lamar Odom.

Cammo101 · Post #16 » by **Cammo101** » Fri Feb 4, 2011 6:02 pm

I think Williams is the better of the two right now, but Jones has more upside due to his athleticism. Both are a little between positions as neither are text book 3s or 4s.

I like both and rate them pretty evenly as prospects. I'd give Williams a slight edge just because Jones has some red flags with his attitude.

Post #17 » by **BigSlam** » Fri Feb 4, 2011 7:09 pm

Cammo101 wrote:I think Williams is the better of the two right now, but Jones has more upside due to his athleticism

Huh?!?!?!?

Williams is a zillion times more athletic than Jones is.

vincecarter4pres · Post #18 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Fri Feb 4, 2011 7:50 pm

Does anyone see Williams winding up similar in style and level of play to Danny Granger, or is he more Paul Millsap?

Post #19 » by **Ruzious** » Fri Feb 4, 2011 8:44 pm

BigSlam wrote:
Cammo101 wrote:I think Williams is the better of the two right now, but Jones has more upside due to his athleticism

Huh?!?!?!?

Williams is a zillion times more athletic than Jones is.

Well, half a zillion. Williams is more athletic, but Jones has an uncanny first step that gives him an advantage over seemingly quicker players.

theboomking · Post #20 » by **theboomking** » Fri Feb 4, 2011 10:36 pm

Ruzious wrote:
BigSlam wrote:
Cammo101 wrote:I think Williams is the better of the two right now, but Jones has more upside due to his athleticism

Huh?!?!?!?

Williams is a zillion times more athletic than Jones is.

Well, half a zillion. Williams is more athletic, but Jones has an uncanny first step that gives him an advantage over seemingly quicker players.

I think Williams' first step is significantly better. He just blows by people. What jones has over Williams IMHO is a crazy handle, and more length in terms of both reach and wingspan. Jones has a good but not great 1st step, but his handle is so good, it is easy for him to take other big men off the dribble.

I don't see Williams as a Granger type player. He is more of a slashing, penetrating, post player that can knock down the perimeter shot to keep defenses honest. I also don't trust Williams' 3 point shooting to look nearly as good in the pro's. Williams is better from 3 point range than the FT line this year, and that just can't last.