Who helped/hurt themselves at the combine?

Golabki · Post #1 » by **Golabki** » Sun May 19, 2013 10:02 pm

HURT
Olynyk has terrible length for a center and lacks the athleticism to play PF. He basically was Eric Murphy's doppelganger in the testing. For a fringe lotto big-man, I feel like not having a position (physically) is a major issue.

HELPED
Muscala measured out solidly for a combo big (PF/C type). He's not an athletic freak by any means, but for a small college guy I think it's import to come out and show that you've got an NBA-caliber body. He did that in terms of both length and athleticism. I think he could sneak into the first round.

black bart · Post #2 » by **black bart** » Sun May 19, 2013 10:05 pm

Allen Crabbe helped himself a lot. Caldwell Pope hurt himself a lot

Golabki · Post #3 » by **Golabki** » Sun May 19, 2013 10:46 pm

nhh90 wrote:Allen Crabbe helped himself a lot. Caldwell Pope hurt himself a lot

I agree on Crabbe.

23-7 · Post #4 » by **23-7** » Sun May 19, 2013 10:56 pm

Golabki wrote:
nhh90 wrote:Allen Crabbe helped himself a lot. Caldwell Pope hurt himself a lot

I agree on Crabbe.

How did KCP hurt himself?

princeofpalace · Post #5 » by **princeofpalace** » Sun May 19, 2013 10:57 pm

Helped: Tim Hardaway Jr, Michael Carter Williams
Hurt: Jeff Withey, Phil Pressey

black bart · Post #6 » by **black bart** » Sun May 19, 2013 11:26 pm

23-7 wrote:
Golabki wrote:
nhh90 wrote:Allen Crabbe helped himself a lot. Caldwell Pope hurt himself a lot

I agree on Crabbe.

How did KCP hurt himself?

Mediocre athlete.

teamjosh04 · Post #7 » by **teamjosh04** » Mon May 20, 2013 12:59 am

Helped:

Rudy Gobert
Tony Mitchell
Tim Hardaway Jr
Ray McCallum
Tony Snell
Reggie Bullock
Cody Zeller
Steven Adams
Kenny Kadji

Hurt:

BJ Young
Archie Goodwin
Ricky Ledo
Jeff Withey
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

This is all marginal though

SixerFever215 · Post #8 » by **SixerFever215** » Mon May 20, 2013 1:22 am

Helped
Tyler Zeller- his number were just off the charts I think alot of scouts were down on him after this mpast season but he tested really well at the combine alot more athletic then people thought. I think he's a top 10 pick again

Steve Adams- Big kid moved well and he's physically put together for a 19 year old. He also shot the ball really good jay Williams and the rest of the guys called him the best center in the draft

Tim Hardaway jr- He got oustshined this past season by Trey Burke but this kid can really ball. He finished 4th in everything which is really solid. Also played well in wthe pick up games with everybody watchin.

Sleeper kid who could move big time is Tony Mitchell from North Texas crazy athletic can jump out the gym. He measured in a 6'8 which means he can power forward at the NBA. Also he was a very good rebounder at the college level. He gets the Blake Griffin comparison, I think an NBA team could take him with the hope of him being the next blake

KembaWalker · Post #9 » by **KembaWalker** » Mon May 20, 2013 2:47 am

Seems like Cody helped himself a bit

Goodwin hurt himself a bunch it sounded like. Shabazz a little bit

it all seems pointless in the end, a couple drills and measurements dont change anyones preconceived notions on these guys. i really doubt the night before the draft these GMs are comparing players lane agility drill times or how many reps they got on bench press. just doesnt matter compared to watching them actually play basketball

noobcake · Post #10 » by **noobcake** » Mon May 20, 2013 4:59 am

Ryan Kelly and Mason Plumlee both helped themselves.

Plumlee should be a late first, early second easily. He is pretty much a better version of his brother Miles.

Ryan Kelly measured in at 6'10". That is obscenely good for a stretch 4, fill in 5. He is now guaranteed to go before mid second round. Many of you probably don't know but Ryan "White Raven" Kelly is an elite defensive player. He is in the mold of Dirk. Seriously, he could become the next Dirk.

theatlfan · Post #11 » by **theatlfan** » Mon May 20, 2013 5:29 am

nhh90 wrote:
23-7 wrote:How did KCP hurt himself?

Mediocre athlete.

Don't understand this. He's always been a stat vs scout guy with his backers firmly in the stat camp. Talent evaluators knew (or, at least, should have) he wasn't an elite athlete, but he actually held up OK in the athletic portions of the event (much better than I figured honestly). I guess it's one of those eye of the beholder things: scout guys will look at it and say that he barely matches up; stat guys would look at it and say that his testing actually improved his stock since he was able to check some boxes.

ManualRam · Post #12 » by **ManualRam** » Mon May 20, 2013 6:01 am

i thought kcp measured out better than expected length wise. he did very well in the speed/agility testing too.

Dat2U · Post #13 » by **Dat2U** » Mon May 20, 2013 6:35 am

Golabki wrote:HURT
Olynyk has terrible length for a center and lacks the athleticism to play PF. He basically was Eric Murphy's doppelganger in the testing. For a fringe lotto big-man, I feel like not having a position (physically) is a major issue.

HELPED
Muscala measured out solidly for a combo big (PF/C type). He's not an athletic freak by any means, but for a small college guy I think it's import to come out and show that you've got an NBA-caliber body. He did that in terms of both length and athleticism. I think he could sneak into the first round.

Olynyk has the same standing reach as Muscala, Murphy & Plumlee (9'0") and two inches taller than Zeller (8'10").

Ell Curry · Post #14 » by **Ell Curry** » Mon May 20, 2013 12:54 pm

I know this seems counter-intuitive, but I think Ryan Kelly might have helped himself with his terrible, easily combine-worst 14.8% body fat percentage. He's 6'10, 230, hit over 40% on 3's and 80% from the line each of the last 2 years and was generally seen as a plus defensive player for Duke (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketba ... fense-most) who blocked a good number of shots.

If he was a great stretch 4 for Duke, contributing to their offense with spacing and efficient shooting and to their defense with his length and positioning, and he did all that while chubby and out of shape, I'd be pretty comfortable drafting him and then immediately making sure he's in much better shape. It might take a year or two, but this is basically what happened with Roy Hibbert, right?

It's clear that offenses are helped by having a shooter at the 4, either to give you 4 shooters on the floor or 3 if you have a guy like Tony Allen, Andre Miller, Lance Stephenson or other non-shooter who can be ignored by defenders. So, drafting Kelly and getting him in shape seems like something teams with a physical 5 need to be considering.

Golabki · Post #15 » by **Golabki** » Mon May 20, 2013 2:00 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Golabki wrote:HURT
Olynyk has terrible length for a center and lacks the athleticism to play PF. He basically was Eric Murphy's doppelganger in the testing. For a fringe lotto big-man, I feel like not having a position (physically) is a major issue.

HELPED
Muscala measured out solidly for a combo big (PF/C type). He's not an athletic freak by any means, but for a small college guy I think it's import to come out and show that you've got an NBA-caliber body. He did that in terms of both length and athleticism. I think he could sneak into the first round.

Olynyk has the same standing reach as Muscala, Murphy & Plumlee (9'0") and two inches taller than Zeller (8'10").

9'0" is a below average, but adequate standing reach for a center. Olynyk <6'10" wingspan is HORRID for a center, like historically bad for an NBA center. For both Murphy and Olynyk, I think they'll be productive bigs offensively, but you are going to have to hide them on the defensive end.

Muscala, physically, is a PF/C tweener, but he's closer to the NBA norm than Olynyk. I wouldn't have called Muscala a winner if he was being consider a late lotto pick, but for where he is on the board, I think he helped himself.

Dat2U · Post #16 » by **Dat2U** » Mon May 20, 2013 6:32 pm

Standing reach is a better tool of measurement for bigs than wingspan. Wingspan is a horizontal measurement. Standing reach is a vertical measurement. The central focus of good defense for bigs is challenging shots. This requires utilizing your standing reach more so than your wingspan.

Ruzious · Post #17 » by **Ruzious** » Mon May 20, 2013 6:56 pm

Ell Curry wrote:I know this seems counter-intuitive, but I think Ryan Kelly might have helped himself with his terrible, easily combine-worst 14.8% body fat percentage. He's 6'10, 230, hit over 40% on 3's and 80% from the line each of the last 2 years and was generally seen as a plus defensive player for Duke (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketba ... fense-most) who blocked a good number of shots.

If he was a great stretch 4 for Duke, contributing to their offense with spacing and efficient shooting and to their defense with his length and positioning, and he did all that while chubby and out of shape, I'd be pretty comfortable drafting him and then immediately making sure he's in much better shape. It might take a year or two, but this is basically what happened with Roy Hibbert, right?

It's clear that offenses are helped by having a shooter at the 4, either to give you 4 shooters on the floor or 3 if you have a guy like Tony Allen, Andre Miller, Lance Stephenson or other non-shooter who can be ignored by defenders. So, drafting Kelly and getting him in shape seems like something teams with a physical 5 need to be considering.

You guys are actually understating Kelly's measurements. He was over 6'11 with a 9'2 standing reach. Get him locked in with a strength and conditioning and coach, and he might be the steal of the draft. The one thing that concerned me (other than his rebounding) is that his shooting form deteriorated in his last few games - though it's obviously correctible. I'll bet San Antonio somehow ends up with him.

Schroeder helped himself at the combine. Yes, he's very light at 165, but his 6'7.75 length (and enormous hands) was an eye-opener, and he'll get stronger.

NO-KG-AI · Post #18 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Mon May 20, 2013 9:00 pm

Dat2U wrote:Standing reach is a better tool of measurement for bigs than wingspan. Wingspan is a horizontal measurement. Standing reach is a vertical measurement. The central focus of good defense for bigs is challenging shots. This requires utilizing your standing reach more so than your wingspan.

You still kind of need both. A lot of shots aren't blocked straight up, but are a result of reaching across as well.

Rudy Gobert's standing reach, wtf.

Golabki · Post #19 » by **Golabki** » Mon May 20, 2013 9:34 pm

Dat2U wrote:Standing reach is a better tool of measurement for bigs than wingspan. Wingspan is a horizontal measurement. Standing reach is a vertical measurement. The central focus of good defense for bigs is challenging shots. This requires utilizing your standing reach more so than your wingspan.

Tell that to A. Mourning and B. Wallace... I understand your rationale here, but it's just wrong.

Dat2U · Post #20 » by **Dat2U** » Mon May 20, 2013 9:38 pm

Golabki wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Standing reach is a better tool of measurement for bigs than wingspan. Wingspan is a horizontal measurement. Standing reach is a vertical measurement. The central focus of good defense for bigs is challenging shots. This requires utilizing your standing reach more so than your wingspan.

Tell that to A. Mourning and B. Wallace... I understand your rationale here, but it's just wrong.

Please explain how it's wrong.