Aaron Gordon...What Separates him from Blake Griffin?

[karkinos]

In terms of what people say about him, it reminds me a lot of what was said about Michael Kidd Gilchrist. "Coach's dream." "High IQ." "Great Defender." "Incredible Motor." "Hard Worker." "Great Athlete."

like mkg, all the tools are there
it really depends if the franchise can develop that talent and put him in the best position to succeed.

mkg is one of those guys that isn't putting up good #s but i think if he were just in the right system he could really thrive

I was one of those people who was real big on MKG when he came out of college. I still hold out hopes for him, but that original estimation was based on him improving his awful jump shot. It actually looks worse now than it did when I first saw him. If he does not totally restructure his shot, he can forget about being a real good player. He plays excellent defense and can go to the basket, but his awful shot will relegate him to an average or worse career. I've never seen mechanics that bad .....even on some old time jump shooters.

i felt the same but it's amazing how some people can still learn how to shoot
like, my fave example is trevor ariza. he was never a good shooter, and god forbid if anyone tries to imitate those mechanics. but the lakers gave him the opportunity and taught him to do one thing (catch and shoot 3s) and it was one of the key factors imo that led him to getting a big contract later. now he wasn't lights out or anything, but he certainly shot enough per game to make himself a threat. catch and shoots are def easier than creating your own shot, but it is a role mkg can certainly fill if he has the opportunity.

[doordoor123]

Did you not read the part where I gave facts that invalidated your previous comment?

Yeah, I assumed he was longer... SO what? Am I not allowed to make assumptions? You can be nicer about pointing out how long their arms actually are. That's not 'invalidating.' That's just you correcting my minor error. That ONE correction doesn't invalidate my argument. It invalidates my findings of one fact (which I didn't look up).

Please, if you don't like someone busting your balls then don't make silly comments on things that are easily verifiable. You claim it's a minor error (an error that shouldn’t happen when you can easily Google it) but people are trying to evaluate prospects and you’re false statements are spreading misinformation.

What is verifiable is that Gordon looks like he has longer arms. That's it. If you have a problem with anything I say, you can google it yourself. I don't research body-types and I wasn't being specific. I didn't say how long each one specifically was. If you're truly trying to evaluate these players, you should use google yourself. Even if I was correct, you should still be looking up these players on your own.

[skones]

Did you not read the part where I gave facts that invalidated your previous comment?

Yeah, I assumed he was longer... SO what? Am I not allowed to make assumptions? You can be nicer about pointing out how long their arms actually are. That's not 'invalidating.' That's just you correcting my minor error. That ONE correction doesn't invalidate my argument. It invalidates my findings of one fact (which I didn't look up).

Please, if you don't like someone busting your balls then don't make silly comments on things that are easily verifiable. You claim it's a minor error (an error that shouldn’t happen when you can easily Google it) but people are trying to evaluate prospects and you’re false statements are spreading misinformation.

To be fair, I think you're making waaaaaay too many assumptions based on the measurements that were recorded. Gordon is a very young Freshman not turning 19 years old until next September. Those measurements were taken a full year ago and given that most guys are still growing at this stage, he may indeed measure out better than Faried. You might be biting your tongue by the time June rolls around.

[ThirdMan]

Yeah, I assumed he was longer... SO what? Am I not allowed to make assumptions? You can be nicer about pointing out how long their arms actually are. That's not 'invalidating.' That's just you correcting my minor error. That ONE correction doesn't invalidate my argument. It invalidates my findings of one fact (which I didn't look up).

Please, if you don't like someone busting your balls then don't make silly comments on things that are easily verifiable. You claim it's a minor error (an error that shouldn’t happen when you can easily Google it) but people are trying to evaluate prospects and you’re false statements are spreading misinformation.

To be fair, I think you're making waaaaaay too many assumptions based on the measurements that were recorded. Gordon is a very young Freshman not turning 19 years old until next September. Those measurements were taken a full year ago and given that most guys are still growing at this stage, he may indeed measure out better than Faried. You might be biting your tongue by the time June rolls around.

I'm not concerned. Having new factual information would be great to evaluate him. An opinion on how big someone "looks" is silly.

[skones]

Please, if you don't like someone busting your balls then don't make silly comments on things that are easily verifiable. You claim it's a minor error (an error that shouldn’t happen when you can easily Google it) but people are trying to evaluate prospects and you’re false statements are spreading misinformation.

To be fair, I think you're making waaaaaay too many assumptions based on the measurements that were recorded. Gordon is a very young Freshman not turning 19 years old until next September. Those measurements were taken a full year ago and given that most guys are still growing at this stage, he may indeed measure out better than Faried. You might be biting your tongue by the time June rolls around.

I'm not concerned. Having new factual information would be great to evaluate him. An opinion on how big someone "looks" is silly.

When you're talking about his length and reach, and jumping on a poster about what it IS while using a measurement from one year ago is anything but "factual" at this stage in a players evaluation.

[EvanZ]

yes obv his measurements could be better, but he can still succeed at 6'9" with those wingspan and standing reach measurements. at least he's not standing at 6'8" with shoes and trying to compete with a 7' wingspan. that would be undersized.

Why would that be undersized? I'll take the wingspan and reach over head height any day, ceteris paribus.

[EvanZ]

When you're talking about his length and reach, and jumping on a poster about what it IS while using a measurement from one year ago is anything but "factual" at this stage in a players evaluation.

If someone is going to bring height, reach, wingspan into a conversation and base it off of what they see on tv, that is the height of folly.

[karkinos]

yes obv his measurements could be better, but he can still succeed at 6'9" with those wingspan and standing reach measurements. at least he's not standing at 6'8" with shoes and trying to compete with a 7' wingspan. that would be undersized.

Why would that be undersized? I'll take the wingspan and reach over head height any day, ceteris paribus.

so gordon's wingspan is half an inch shorter and all of a sudden he got trex arms? his standing reach is still going to be taller than the shorter player. you can be paul millsap w a 7'1.5" wingspan but his standing reach is only 8'9"

[EvanZ]

yes obv his measurements could be better, but he can still succeed at 6'9" with those wingspan and standing reach measurements. at least he's not standing at 6'8" with shoes and trying to compete with a 7' wingspan. that would be undersized.

Why would that be undersized? I'll take the wingspan and reach over head height any day, ceteris paribus.

so gordon's wingspan is half an inch shorter and all of a sudden he got trex arms? his standing reach is still going to be taller than the shorter player. you can be paul millsap w a 7'1.5" wingspan but his standing reach is only 8'9"

Don't create strawmen. The original "argument" was that Gordon is longer than Faired. He's not. The end.

[karkinos]

Why would that be undersized? I'll take the wingspan and reach over head height any day, ceteris paribus.

so gordon's wingspan is half an inch shorter and all of a sudden he got trex arms? his standing reach is still going to be taller than the shorter player. you can be paul millsap w a 7'1.5" wingspan but his standing reach is only 8'9"

Don't create strawmen. The original "argument" was that Gordon is longer than Faired. He's not. The end.

lmao
bruh
the fact that u think i'm a part of that conversation is hilarious

your first response to me was saying if derrick williams, who has better measurements, has trouble in the post, so will aaron gordon. all i'm saying is while his measurements aren't elite, it doesn't mean that he can't be productive at PF. having a 6'11" wingspan and 8'10.5" standing reach isn't doomsday for a PF.

[EvanZ]

your first response to me was saying if derrick williams, who has better measurements, has trouble in the post, so will aaron gordon. all i'm saying is while his measurements aren't elite, it doesn't mean that he can't be productive at PF. having a 6'11" wingspan and 8'10.5" standing reach isn't doomsday for a PF.

It isn't doomsday, but that raises the question. Why did you think to mention that Gordon is longer than Faried or Williams (neither of which is actually true)?

Now you've just been caught with your pants down are trying to backtrack.

For the record, the reason I think Gordon won't be good down low is simply that he has no post skills. Hard to imagine him acquiring them at the next level. Few, if any, ever do. And at his size, which is not at all elite, he would need to be extremely crafty and skilled to score around the basket.

[karkinos]

It isn't doomsday, but that raises the question. Why did you think to mention that Gordon is longer than Faried or Williams (neither of which is actually true)?

Now you've just been caught with your pants down are trying to backtrack.

dude

did you not get it the first time

i wasn't the one who was arguing that gordon had longer arms holy ****

how do you not realize doorsdoors is the one who is talking about longer arms
jfc you are dense

[karkinos]

faried was no slouch in college...he was very adept at defense at that level. his insanely long arms made up for his lack of height...(lol standing reach at 9' which is higher than gordon's gg)

quoted from page 3
i said faried had a longer standing reach than gordon's

your responses are to an imaginary argument.

[EvanZ]

It isn't doomsday, but that raises the question. Why did you think to mention that Gordon is longer than Faried or Williams (neither of which is actually true)?

Now you've just been caught with your pants down are trying to backtrack.

dude

did you not get it the first time

i wasn't the one who was arguing that gordon had longer arms holy ****

how do you not realize doorsdoors is the one who is talking about longer arms
jfc you are dense

What exactly are you arguing with then?

[karkinos]

i just told you

you said derrick williams has a longer standing reach and wingspan and struggles in the post, therefore gordon has no chance to develop a post game.

i said i disagree and think that aaron gordon's measurements are sufficient to play PF. yes we all know gordon doesn't have post skills but it doesn't mean he can't learn them nor is his length 100% predictive of failure.

end.

i really don't know why i'm recapping something i've fkn reviewed already. i really don't know why it's so hard to re-read page 4 or why you can't comprehend what or who you've been replying to this entire time.

[EvanZ]

i just told you

you said derrick williams has a longer standing reach and wingspan and struggles in the post, therefore gordon has no chance to develop a post game.

i said i disagree and think that aaron gordon's measurements are sufficient to play PF. yes we all know gordon doesn't have post skills but it doesn't mean he can't learn them nor is his length 100% predictive of failure.

end.

i really don't know why i'm recapping something i've fkn reviewed already. i really don't know why it's so hard to re-read page 4 or why you can't comprehend what or who you've been replying to this entire time.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I said this:

Williams has a longer wingspan and greater standing reach than Gordon. There's no way Gordon's going to be able to consistently score in the post at his size and lack of post skills. He better work on his shot.

I thought you had said that Gordon was longer than Williams, so I was correcting to you. The second part of my statement is not related to the first, so whatever you are reading into it is your own doing.

For the record, and once again (because I've already said it), Gordon will not be a good post player because he doesn't have the length or the skills down low. That has nothing to do with Derrick Williams.

[karkinos]

I have no idea what you're talking about. I said this:

Williams has a longer wingspan and greater standing reach than Gordon. There's no way Gordon's going to be able to consistently score in the post at his size and lack of post skills. He better work on his shot.

I thought you had said that Gordon was longer than Williams, so I was correcting to you. The second part of my statement is not related to the first, so whatever you are reading into it is your own doing.

For the record, and once again (because I've already said it), Gordon will not be a good post player because he doesn't have the length or the skills down low. That has nothing to do with Derrick Williams.

1. you were correcting me? you mean "attempting" to correct me except the only person mistaken was you

2. it doesn't have anything to do with derrick williams?

Williams has a longer wingspan and greater standing reach than Gordon

it doesn't take a genius to infer what direction you were going for. gordon is taller but has weaker wingspan and standing reach measurements.
you used williams' measurements to support your idea that gordon lacks the length to play the position. we all know gordon is rough skill-wise. that is a no brainer. i'm telling you that those measurements don't mean he cannot make an impact in the post. the measurements are enough. all he needs are the skills. go ahead and backtrack on the second statement being unrelated to the first. anyone else who read it and isn't incompetent knows those two are related.

[EvanZ]

Williams has a longer wingspan and greater standing reach than Gordon

it doesn't take a genius to infer what direction you were going for. gordon is taller but has weaker wingspan and standing reach measurements.
you used williams' measurements to support your idea that gordon lacks the length to play the position. we all know gordon is rough skill-wise. that is a no brainer. i'm telling you that those measurements don't mean he cannot make an impact in the post. the measurements are enough. all he needs are the skills. go ahead and backtrack on the second statement being unrelated to the first. anyone else who read it and isn't incompetent knows those two are related.

You can choose to believe what you want to believe. I told you why I said what I said. If you want to continue to knock down strawmen, that's your prerogative.

i'm telling you that those measurements don't mean he cannot make an impact in the post. the measurements are enough. all he needs are the skills.

I never said otherwise. Except in your mind.

The fact is he does not have elite length. Does that mean he can't ever be an inside scoring threat? No. Does it mean it will be less likely? Absolutely.

As for "all he needs are the skills", you are entirely responsible for that piece of sage wisdom. I'm sure every basketball player ever said that to himself. "Hey, I just need the skills. That's the easy part, right?"

[karkinos]

i was pretty patient with you bro
you even went after me and said i was caught with my pants down backtracking on some imaginary argument
nice to know you're incredibly unapologetic about it.

after all of this, you still haven't told me why 6'11" and 8'10.5" is insufficient length for a post player outside of citing that lamarcus aldridge has better measurements. both millsap and griffin have shorter standing reach measurements, yet they both have servicable post games. why is it so impossible for gordon? it's like his standing reach is just different from everyone else's.

[EvanZ]

after all of this, you still haven't told me why 6'11" and 8'10.5" is insufficient length for a post player outside of citing that lamarcus aldridge has better measurements. both millsap and griffin have shorter standing reach measurements, yet they both have servicable post games. why is it so impossible for gordon? it's like his standing reach is just different from everyone else's.

I haven't seen such a dense poster in a long time.

Do you know the difference between "average" and "elite"? Someone with "elite" length will have an easier time than someone with "average" length. That is a truism. There is nothing to argue or debate in that statement, yet somehow that is what you continue to do.

I DID NOT SAY IT WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR GORDON. I SAID IT WILL BE *DIFFICULT* BECAUSE HE DOES NOT HAVE ELITE LENGTH NOR ELITE SKILLS.

That is the statement you need to be dealing with. Tell me how that is wrong. Do you understand the difference between saying something is impossible and saying it is unlikely? Or does your mind only deal with black and white?

There are plenty of players with more length and more skills than Gordon who have not been successful in the post, so why in the world would anyone assume that it is more likely than not that Gordon will be successful? It is not a rational take.

Unfortunately, like a huge number of casual fans, you make your arguments based on few cherry-picked examples. "Well, Paul Millsap did it, so why can't Gordon?" That is not sound logic. It doesn't explain why Gordon should be able to do it, it just states the obvious, which is that it's *possible*. Nobody is saying otherwise. But *possible* does not equal *probable* or even *likely*. You need to explain why Gordon should be able to overcome his average length and below-average skills to become the next Paul Millsap. You haven't even begun to do that.


Oh, and by the way. Paul Millsap has a 7'1.5" wingspan, a full 2 inches greater than Gordon. So once again, even your cherry-picked example falls a bit short, no pun intended.