Ben Simmons

[No-Man]

My problem with Simmons is the Evan Turner syndrome, we will have to wait and see I guess.

[crazy_me_87]

God yes. Carmelo ate people alive with his first step at Syracuse.

Am i blind? i dont see Ben as "slow" in any way. Why does this Thread make the impression he is at most Boris Diaw and a fringe first rounder?...The Ben bashing is crazy here. Everyone outside of this Thread Loves Ben... hes Compared to Magic and Lebron everywhere. and even if he never reaches those two even a Better Lamar Odom is still a great Player... dont like that he is heralded as one of the best prospects in years?

Slow down, mate, you're skipping lots of steps. First, no one thinks Simmons is at Lebron/Magic level for a prospect

Uhm so every sports website, numerous NBA Scouts are "no one" ?

Its ok if you think otherwise i can totally accept that.. but just read any piece on Ben outside of realgm and "no one" seems a bit far fetched.

Its fine if people point out areas where he needs to work on thats great^^ but i was just a bit annoyed with the feeling this thread gives you... If he was American and had he been seen as early as most Kids are he would been hyped up alot more and earlier.

But maybe im just too much of an optimist for realgm sometimes. I love getting hyped and i expect every kid to reach their potential until they dont^^.. maybe a bit naive but i have fun that way. Its not may way to focus on negatives.. thats no fun to me.

I stand by my views.. Ben will be a HOFmer and give The Brow a run for his money as best Player the next 15 years.
Ben has some weak spots now.. no one can deny that but who didnt?. MJ was far from the player we remember at 19.. the same goes for almost every great.

Lebron didnt have a better Jump Shot before he entered the NBA than Ben.We know what happened..
Kobe was mostly known as that athletic Kid without much else and he became one of the most fundamentally sound Players propably ever.

There is a chance he never reaches his potential.. thats true.
But as i posted earlier and some here backed me up: Ben is said to be a tireles worker and hell bent focused on winning.. in terms of focus and will he is compared to Kobe.. without the "ass" factor.. I like to think that IF( i know alot hinges on that if!!!!!) thats true i see no reason why the sky isnt the limit for Ben.

He has more raw talent than most guys on the Wing the last 10 years if we include BBIQ and Passing as "talent"(whos ahead of him on the Wing since 2005? Durant and? Dont tell me George or Leonard..They werent clear cut No1 Picks).. If he has this all time great focus people say he has.. he absolutly can overcome his weaknesses.

I can accept anybody thinking i am crazy but i want at least a bit leeway here because as someone above correctly said.. we do nothing but theorize and phantasize here... Person X says "Big J you are crazy he will never be more than Lamar Odom".. I Say he will be a HOF and true All time great. Both statements are standing and whatever anybody thinks about either one... until in a few years neither prediction can be proved or disproved.

[Marcus]

My problem with Simmons is the Evan Turner syndrome, we will have to wait and see I guess.

what is the Evan Turner syndrome?

[crazy_me_87]

My problem with Simmons is the Evan Turner syndrome, we will have to wait and see I guess.

could you explain the Syndrome for me?

Is it the "Wow he has such great Vision and BBIQ for a wing he will be Grant Hill Pre injury" -- a few years later: meh.. slightly above average role player ?

Honestly if thats the case i dont see why that should have any weight here. Turner played 3 season in College while Ben will be a 1 and done guy. Ben is a much better athlete than Evan and Will be 2.5 years younger when he enters the NBA. Hence his Potential is immensly higher

[Marcus]

If he was American and had he been seen as early as most Kids are he would been hyped up alot more and earlier.

he's been on the NBA radar since his Sophmore year at Verde when he first came over. I don't think him not being American makes a difference.

[crazy_me_87]

The Ben bashing is crazy here. Everyone outside of this Thread Loves Ben... hes Compared to Magic and Lebron everywhere. and even if he never reaches those two even a Better Lamar Odom is still a great Player.

Why are here so many so down on him? Because hes an Aussie?, Because he is compared to Lebron but looks slighty worse at the same age?(so he "looks" disapointing if you need him to be 100% Lebron to not disapoint) What is it?

Or simply people who want to anti-hype who dont like that he is heralded as one of the best prospects in years?

you might have to chalk this one up and let time tell the story. Those who love Ben aren't gonna change their mind and those with questions aren't gonna change their's either right now.

I personally love the kid and have since i first saw him play in the championship game his Junior year when D-Lo was the star but Ben was easily the most impressive on the floor to me.

You'll never have enough in your arsenal to complete the sell job though. He'll do what he does at LSU and this debate will rage on all year more than likely. that's the way it goes when a kid is targetted as the top pick. Same thing happened with Wiggins in 2014 and same thing happened with Jah last year.

You have a point.. i have a hard time admiting it because i am so passionate about Ben..

as i was with Wiggins last year.. i stayed true to Wigg through his Freshman year while alot of people started ripping him apart and made it seem as if he did 9/3 instead of 17/6... Then people questioned him early in his rookie year... Then he finsished with one of the best Rookie seasons for a guy his age(i think he is right behind only Melo and Lebron as 19yo rookies in terms of scoring)

Now fewer and fewer people doubt him and more and more see that he has a bright future..
I expect a simmillar journey with Ben^^

I have developed a decent eye at least for wing prospects.. no one believed in Gainnis.. i saw something great the first time i saw him. i didnt knew what exactly.. but he had "it" as did Wiggins when i first saw him.. as does Ben.. I trust my gut..
of course none of you has any reason to do that

[Marcus]

The Ben bashing is crazy here. Everyone outside of this Thread Loves Ben... hes Compared to Magic and Lebron everywhere. and even if he never reaches those two even a Better Lamar Odom is still a great Player.

Why are here so many so down on him? Because hes an Aussie?, Because he is compared to Lebron but looks slighty worse at the same age?(so he "looks" disapointing if you need him to be 100% Lebron to not disapoint) What is it?

Or simply people who want to anti-hype who dont like that he is heralded as one of the best prospects in years?

you might have to chalk this one up and let time tell the story. Those who love Ben aren't gonna change their mind and those with questions aren't gonna change their's either right now.

I personally love the kid and have since i first saw him play in the championship game his Junior year when D-Lo was the star but Ben was easily the most impressive on the floor to me.

You'll never have enough in your arsenal to complete the sell job though. He'll do what he does at LSU and this debate will rage on all year more than likely. that's the way it goes when a kid is targetted as the top pick. Same thing happened with Wiggins in 2014 and same thing happened with Jah last year.

You have a point.. i have a hard time admiting it because i am so passionate about Ben..

as i was with Wiggins last year.. i stayed true to Wigg through his Freshman year while alot of people started ripping him apart and made it seem as if he did 9/3 instead of 17/6... Then people questioned him early in his rookie year... Then he finsished with one of the best Rookie seasons for a guy his age(i think he is right behind only Melo and Lebron as 19yo rookies in terms of scoring)

Now fewer and fewer people doubt him and more and more see that he has a bright future..
I expect a simmillar journey with Ben^^

I have developed a decent eye at least for wing prospects.. no one believed in Gainnis.. i saw something great the first time i saw him. i didnt knew what exactly.. but he had "it" as did Wiggins when i first saw him.. as does Ben.. I trust my gut..
of course none of you has any reason to do that

Love Ben, think he's a stud, only question i have/had with him is confidence in his jumper. Form is there just needs to be more confident in his stroke. Seems to be coming along in that regard from his college clips. We'll see what happens during the season. Other than that every other question regarding him should be answered in time.

Don't think the "tweener" label fits he feels like a guy you just put on the floor and let the rest figure itself out. Curious to see how much "takeover" he has in him at LSU and how he picks his spots to do so.

As far as draft status. Its all flexible. I can see him getting passed up for a guy with "higher upside" if another kid looks stellar. Skal will have the hype train behind him at UK and both Jaylen Brown and Brandon Ingram have situations that may allow them to look stellar whilst hiding their question marks. Ben is being marketed as THE GUY at LSU so any off game or weakness will be magnified. It happens when you've been consensus number in your class for a while.

[splendidham]

Am i blind? i dont see Ben as "slow" in any way. Why does this Thread make the impression he is at most Boris Diaw and a fringe first rounder?...The Ben bashing is crazy here. Everyone outside of this Thread Loves Ben... hes Compared to Magic and Lebron everywhere. and even if he never reaches those two even a Better Lamar Odom is still a great Player... dont like that he is heralded as one of the best prospects in years?

Slow down, mate, you're skipping lots of steps. First, no one thinks Simmons is at Lebron/Magic level for a prospect

Uhm so every sports website, numerous NBA Scouts are "no one" ?

Its ok if you think otherwise i can totally accept that.. but just read any piece on Ben outside of realgm and "no one" seems a bit far fetched.

Its fine if people point out areas where he needs to work on thats great^^ but i was just a bit annoyed with the feeling this thread gives you... If he was American and had he been seen as early as most Kids are he would been hyped up alot more and earlier.

But maybe im just too much of an optimist for realgm sometimes. I love getting hyped and i expect every kid to reach their potential until they dont^^.. maybe a bit naive but i have fun that way. Its not may way to focus on negatives.. thats no fun to me.

I stand by my views.. Ben will be a HOFmer and give The Brow a run for his money as best Player the next 15 years.
Ben has some weak spots now.. no one can deny that but who didnt?. MJ was far from the player we remember at 19.. the same goes for almost every great.

Lebron didnt have a better Jump Shot before he entered the NBA than Ben.We know what happened..
Kobe was mostly known as that athletic Kid without much else and he became one of the most fundamentally sound Players propably ever.

There is a chance he never reaches his potential.. thats true.
But as i posted earlier and some here backed me up: Ben is said to be a tireles worker and hell bent focused on winning.. in terms of focus and will he is compared to Kobe.. without the "ass" factor.. I like to think that IF( i know alot hinges on that if!!!!!) thats true i see no reason why the sky isnt the limit for Ben.

He has more raw talent than most guys on the Wing the last 10 years if we include BBIQ and Passing as "talent"(whos ahead of him on the Wing since 2005? Durant and? Dont tell me George or Leonard..They werent clear cut No1 Picks).. If he has this all time great focus people say he has.. he absolutly can overcome his weaknesses.

I can accept anybody thinking i am crazy but i want at least a bit leeway here because as someone above correctly said.. we do nothing but theorize and phantasize here... Person X says "Big J you are crazy he will never be more than Lamar Odom".. I Say he will be a HOF and true All time great. Both statements are standing and whatever anybody thinks about either one... until in a few years neither prediction can be proved or disproved.

I wouldn't worry about it. Just like you, I'm quite passionate about Ben. I think he's going to be an ace. Likewise others are going to be passionate about other top prospects and inevitably they are going to look for flaws in other prospects to show how their guy stacks ups gainer him and the other top kids. Especially with Ben whom many rate number 1, people are going to look for reasons as to why he shouldn't be number 1 because, let's be honest, all good players get that. Lastly, I think Ben said it best " you gotta be rated first to be overrated".


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[EddieJonesFan]

How good of a playmaker is he? Does he have potential to be elite for his position, or elite in general?

[crazy_me_87]

How good of a playmaker is he? Does he have potential to be elite for his position, or elite in general?

Depends on what you mean by "playmaker"

If you look for creating plays for himself and others strictly in halfcourt he is good but not great.

If you look for BBIQ, Vision and Passing he is propably Elite in general and even could play PG full Time. Allthough the comparison to Magic as a total player may be unfair .. he seems in the Lebron,Magic,Bird realm as a passer over 6'8

He has that 6th Sense Magic had,Bird had,Lebron has.. Kinda the ability to see the floor better than any PG because of your size coupled with amazing passing instincts..

What that means for him as a overall player i dont know. But kinda like with Lebron to a lesser extent..
With all the Athletism(41' vertical and he is fast),Scoring,Rebounding etc.. the biggest strenght that truly stands out is his passing and Playmaking.
Not saying he will be Lebron 2.0 or Magic 2.0.. but the Potential is there and with reports of him beeing Kobe like in terms of beeing posessed with winning and in terms of work ethic.. i totally can see him reach this Potential.. thats of course no guarantee.. he has to keep working and improve his jumper considerably to give himself more space on offense.

[Waynearchetype]

How good of a playmaker is he? Does he have potential to be elite for his position, or elite in general?

Depends on what you mean by "playmaker"

If you look for creating plays for himself and others strictly in halfcourt he is good but not great.

If you look for BBIQ, Vision and Passing he is propably Elite in general and even could play PG full Time. Allthough the comparison to Magic as a total player may be unfair .. he seems in the Lebron,Magic,Bird realm as a passer over 6'8

He has that 6th Sense Magic had,Bird had,Lebron has.. Kinda the ability to see the floor better than any PG because of your size coupled with amazing passing instincts..

What that means for him as a overall player i dont know. But kinda like with Lebron to a lesser extent..
With all the Athletism(41' vertical and he is fast),Scoring,Rebounding etc.. the biggest strenght that truly stands out is his passing and Playmaking.
Not saying he will be Lebron 2.0 or Magic 2.0.. but the Potential is there and with reports of him beeing Kobe like in terms of beeing posessed with winning and in terms of work ethic.. i totally can see him reach this Potential.. thats of course no guarantee.. he has to keep working and improve his jumper considerably to give himself more space on offense.

Magic was a pretty elite shooter. That is the one thing we will find out with Simmons during the college season. If he can be a consistent scoring threat outside of 10ft then I am much more comfortable with him going #1.

[EddieJonesFan]

How was Magic an "elite" shooter?

[Masterfully]

How was Magic an "elite" shooter?

Magic career TS% = .610
Curry career TS% = .602

Of course, Magic's points did not come from behind the arc.

[peachbucket]

How was Magic an "elite" shooter?

Magic career TS% = .610
Curry career TS% = .602

Of course, Magic's points did not come from behind the arc.

DeAndre Jordan career TS% = .622

[Masterfully]

DeAndre is a PG?

[peachbucket]

DeAndre is a PG?

No, and neither is Ben Simmons.

The point is that a high TSP doesn't mean that a player is a good outside shooter. I don't know how much Magic you've actually seen, but despite Magic being a 'point guard' his high TSP was due to a high percentage of his offense coming in the paint. It took him 10 years in the league to crack .30 on his 3 pointers. He wasn't an elite 'shooter' by any stretch.

[Masterfully]

Of course I watched Magic. The guy was a shotmaker from anywhere.

Things were different in the 80's. Bird went 4 straight years shooting under 30% for three. It just wasn't a high priority. That doesn't mean they weren't elite shooters.

[Waynearchetype]

DeAndre is a PG?

No, and neither is Ben Simmons.

The point is that a high TSP doesn't mean that a player is a good outside shooter. I don't know how much Magic you've actually seen, but despite Magic being a 'point guard' his high TSP was due to a high percentage of his offense coming in the paint. It took him 10 years in the league to crack .30 on his 3 pointers. He wasn't an elite 'shooter' by any stretch.

There was a time before advanced stats when being a good shooter was not a direct correlation with your 3p%. Magic was an elite shooter, just not a good 3 point shooter.


Was Jordan not an elite shooter because of his 32% career average from 3?

[peachbucket]

Of course I watched Magic. The guy was a shotmaker from anywhere.

Things were different in the 80's. Bird went 4 straight years shooting under 30% for three. It just wasn't a high priority. That doesn't mean they weren't elite shooters.

Yes, things were much different which is why it is a good idea to not go back there for current player comparisons...also as unreliable as eyewitness testimony is, it gets that much worse after 30 years.

One thing that was different back then was you could get away with shooting a 6th grade push shot from below your chest because your HOF center or forward was getting double teamed on the block and you didn't have anyone within 10 feet of you on the perimeter...a shooting style that has gone extinct with Shawn Marion because you wouldn't be able to get that shot off in todays NBA.

Putting his shooting style and difficulty of his outside shots aside for a second, the fact is that Magic shot .30% from 3 for his career which is not a great mark for any era. Magic did many things at an elite level, but shooting was definitely not one of them.

[peachbucket]

DeAndre is a PG?

No, and neither is Ben Simmons.

The point is that a high TSP doesn't mean that a player is a good outside shooter. I don't know how much Magic you've actually seen, but despite Magic being a 'point guard' his high TSP was due to a high percentage of his offense coming in the paint. It took him 10 years in the league to crack .30 on his 3 pointers. He wasn't an elite 'shooter' by any stretch.

There was a time before advanced stats when being a good shooter was not a direct correlation with your 3p%. Magic was an elite shooter, just not a good 3 point shooter.


Was Jordan not an elite shooter because of his 32% career average from 3?

Jordan was an elite scorer but I wouldn't say he was an elite shooter...Reggie Miller was an elite shooter.