Ben Simmons

[deflated]

Odom was a better prospect overall, when you factor in his defensive ability

Simmons just has somewhat flashier passing (how much is that really worth?)

Don't see this. Simmons doesn't have anything like Odom's outside game but he's better on the boards and a far better passer. Simmons looks pretty safe with the ball and may be more efficient as a scorer, though that may be driven by his current style of passing unless he's looking at an easy path to the rim and that may not be a good thing (on the plus side anything in transition is a easy path to the rim for him).

No sign of Odom's academic or off-court issues either if you factor that into prospect assessment.

Disagree that he's better on the boards. Odom averaged 10rpg his freshman year at Rhode Island, this guy was putting up 15, 17, 20 rebound games in the NBA. He's got a longer wingspan and was more physical, I wouldn't assume Simmons projects to be a better rebounder than LO was.

Simmons may look more efficient as a scorer in college playing against small weaklings, at the next level when he's forced to create from the perimeter and hit jumpshots that efficiency is going to go way down. I don't think Simmons has hit a single jumpshot yet. It's clear as day that he lacks halfcourt skills right now.

Simmons may be a slightly less-TO prone passer than LO was, I'll give you that. He certainly doesn't project to be better defensively, though. Either way, both Simmons and Odom had a lot of talent but neither are/were generational prospects.

Simmons is currently averaging 3+ rebounds more than Odom did; SSS but he's got the desire and I don't see Simmons projecting as worse on the boards compared to Odom at the same stage. Not sure why you're bringing NBA stats into a discussion about the status of players as a prospect either but whatever.

Who mentioned generational prospects? Get that straw man out of here. Simmons plays a different game than Odom and I believe is a better prospect than Odom (for the focus and drive if nothing else), end of story.

[Mike X]

When I see how much Ben' ft shooting has improved in a short amount of time Im not concerned about his jumpshooting at all.

[JFarfan18]

ESPN really wants Simmons to be next LeBron. It's sickening to watch/read.

[crazy_me_87]

When I see how much Ben' ft shooting has improved in a short amount of time Im not concerned about his jumpshooting at all.

Yeah 80%+ FT shooter is a very good sign that his jumper will be fine in the long run.

People make way too much of a fuzz about jumpshooting at age 18-19. Look at guys like Cousins who suddenly shoots AND hits threes like he always was a sharpshooter.

Or The Brow showing legit 3pt Game. Who thought at age 19 those two would become 3pt shooters? if we are honest... nobody.

I always said regarding Ben. He has so many things going for him that cant be teached: Height,athletism,BBIQ,Coordination,Ambidextrous,Vision,Rebounding,Speed,extreme Focus and drive.

A jumper if its not totally broken ala MKG is usually the easiest thing to improve. Bens jumper is not broken he is just inconsistent and needs proper training and a shooting coach.

I am actually blown away by his rebounding. I knew he was a good rebounder but he looks like an elite rebounder at times. Thats the one thing he suprised even me who really watched him alot before.

[Jables]

Simmons is a better prospect than Odom in every way besides outside shooting, and he's not going to stay still forever, get real people. He's already averaging more points, rebounds, assists, steals, has a better 2 pt FG and FT %, and has barely any turnovers so let's shut that down, unless you're just saying they have similar styles, and eh vaguely. His shooting form is fine, he'll develop it, and it is the one thing he needs to become a yearly all star calibre guy.

[EricAnderson]

People thinking comparing him to Odom as a slight are thinking of how Odom ended up as a NBA player instead of what he could have been.

People forget or are too young to remember what kind of prospect Odom was.. I saw him in hs and thought this could be a potential future hall of famer..

While he had a very good NBA career he actually underachieved considering the talent he had..

[ItsThatEasy]

Reading through all the comments I just can't help but laugh.

So many logical fallacies and contrarian opinions being applied to Ben Simmons.

The kid is averaging 19/14/5 and looking great doing it.

Does his jump shot need work? Of course
Does he need to improve his defense? Sure
Does he need to be more selfish? Yes
Is he playing GREAT basketball? You bet your a$$ he is.

He looks like a stud and the #1 pick in the draft...plain and simple.

[reanimator]

Pointing out obvious flaws isn't being contrarian.

Whats funny is the suggestion that Ben will develop a pull up game because of his FT%.

Whats logical fallacy is using Ben's stats 4 games from arguably the weakest high major schedule as a comparison to Odom's college stats. Michael Beasley says hi.

Ben is definitely a talent but the hyperbole and fantasy scenarios are absurd.

[EddieJonesFan]

Why can't Simmons just be a solid top pick in a what's considered a mediocre draft class? Why do people have to make him out to be a loser if he doesn't become a superstar? Why is it so hard for people to adjust their expectations?

[crazy_me_87]

Why can't Simmons just be a solid top pick in a what's considered a mediocre draft class? Why do people have to make him out to be a loser if he doesn't become a superstar? Why is it so hard for people to adjust their expectations?

Because many see in him the best wing prospect in years. Propably since KD.
To have the Potential to be the next great Wing puts pressure up.

Also people need to understand that multiple high value NBA Scouts have compared him to Lebron. That raises the bar even higher. But also should indicate that Ben is not a "solid pick in a weak draft". He is a serious Hof Talent Period. No he likley wont be Lebron but he very well could be a cross between pre injury Grant Hill and Blake Griffin wich would make still a helluva Player.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Ben has had almost zero need to shoot jump shots. He either gets the shot he wants at the rim, or finds an open shooter off a pass. So faulting him for not taking lower efficiency shots in order to show off his individual skill is a pretty ridiculous argument to make. His form isn't broken, his FT shooting shows his ability to improve. I do remember seeing a jumpshot in one of his games, might not have been a 3 but it was from about that range, and it bounced twice in the rim before rimming out - not a bad shot at all.

What I am saying is that is a skill Ben has not needed to rely on because of his immense physical talents, and the fact that he is so good that he hasn't needed to rely on a jumper is not a bad thing regarding his potential. Most physically dominant young players do not focus on their jumpshot early on, and it is an improvable skill once they reach the NBA.


Regarding the Odom comparisons, I've said this before, but the only way that is a bad thing is if you think Ben will flame out and underachieve for the same reasons. The people bringing it up as a negative are seriously reaching, if anything an Odom comparison should be like "Oh damn, he has that much potential? Insane!" instead of a "Well, he's not any better than Odom was and look how that turned out.."


I dunno, I guess the classic line "haters gonna hate" applies here.

[Illmatic12]

Why can't Simmons just be a solid top pick in a what's considered a mediocre draft class? Why do people have to make him out to be a loser if he doesn't become a superstar? Why is it so hard for people to adjust their expectations?

No one's calling him a loser lol.

It's just that when you have a lot of opinions declaring him "the best prospect since Lebron" or "a cross between prime Grant Hill and Blake Griffin" (read one post above ^) I think expectations need to be adjusted on both ends..

[Johnlac1]

I saw the Marquette -LSU game the other day. While Ellenson looks like he can a very good pro, Simmons leaves me no doubts. He might get pushed around a little in the pros at his age, but everything else projects all-star. Tremendous athleticism combined with excellent skills and BB IQ.

[reanimator]

His form isn't broken

good that he hasn't needed to rely on a jumper is not a bad thing regarding his potential. Most physically dominant young players do not focus on their jumpshot early on, and it is an improvable skill once they reach the NBA.

If you are talking catch + shoot then I might buy this, but it doesn't hold when talking pull up jumpers and since Ben is hypothetically going to have the ball in his hand...

[Illmatic12]

Regarding the Odom comparisons, I've said this before, but the only way that is a bad thing is if you think Ben will flame out and underachieve for the same reasons. The people bringing it up as a negative are seriously reaching, if anything an Odom comparison should be like "Oh damn, he has that much potential? Insane!" instead of a "Well, he's not any better than Odom was and look how that turned out.."

You're actually reaching, no one brought up the Odom comparison as a negative? He was an incredible prospect. When we see these guys in college against non-elite competition, we have no idea what type of game they would actually play in the NBA. We don't know what will translate and what won't - that's the whole science behind projecting prospects from one level of play to another.

Younger/prime Odom is a good facsimile for what a 6'10 guy with Simmons skillset *might* look like at the NBA level.


It's better than people lazily throwing out names like "Grant Hill" or "Lebron" .. that presents the wrong type of idea about how Simmons would play. Those guys were dominant scorers, with an aggressive scoring mindset.

Lamar Odom was a creator, not a dominant scorer. Similarly, Simmons is a creator in a 6'10 body, not a deadly scorer from the wing. The scoring skillset he has, is not going to translate to the NBA on an elite level. But the playmaking will.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

His form isn't broken

good that he hasn't needed to rely on a jumper is not a bad thing regarding his potential. Most physically dominant young players do not focus on their jumpshot early on, and it is an improvable skill once they reach the NBA.

If you are talking catch + shoot then I might buy this, but it doesn't hold when talking pull up jumpers and since Ben is hypothetically going to have the ball in his hand...

Pull up jumpers are usually inefficient shots. If he is good enough that he is not forced to take them (instead he can get to the rim or find an open player), why is that a bad thing? It seems like smart basketball to me.

Now, there very well may be a point in the NBA or against better college teams where he is forced to take some of those shots, and we will see what he is made of then, but it isn't like Ben is making bad basketball plays by not shooting many jump-shots at this stage.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Regarding the Odom comparisons, I've said this before, but the only way that is a bad thing is if you think Ben will flame out and underachieve for the same reasons. The people bringing it up as a negative are seriously reaching, if anything an Odom comparison should be like "Oh damn, he has that much potential? Insane!" instead of a "Well, he's not any better than Odom was and look how that turned out.."

You're actually reaching, no one brought up the Odom comparison as a negative? He was an incredible prospect. When we see these guys in college against non-elite competition, we have no idea what type of game they would actually play in the NBA. We don't know what will translate and what won't - that's the whole science behind projecting prospects from one level of play to another.

Younger/prime Odom is a good facsimile for what a 6'10 guy with Simmons skillset *might* look like at the NBA level.


It's better than people lazily throwing out names like "Grant Hill" or "Lebron" .. that presents the wrong type of idea about how Simmons would play. Those guys were dominant scorers, with an aggressive scoring mindset.

Lamar Odom was a creator, not a dominant scorer. Similarly, Simmons is a creator in a 6'10 body, not a deadly scorer from the wing. The scoring skillset he has, is not going to translate to the NBA on an elite level. But the playmaking will.

I dunno, the Odom comparison is lazy for its own reasons. In fact, all comparisons are inherently lazy, because instead of breaking down a player, you just find the most similar looking package.

I do agree that Simmons is going to be more of a playmaker than a scorer - he seems to believe good basketball involves lots of ball-movement rather than ISO and pull-up scoring and I have to agree with him. That said, he has a fantastic touch near the basket and the ability to get anywhere he wants (even against NBA players), so I think he will be a fine scorer at the next level (15-20 pts, maybe a little more depending on usage), just not a transcendent one.

[reanimator]

His form isn't broken

good that he hasn't needed to rely on a jumper is not a bad thing regarding his potential. Most physically dominant young players do not focus on their jumpshot early on, and it is an improvable skill once they reach the NBA.

If you are talking catch + shoot then I might buy this, but it doesn't hold when talking pull up jumpers and since Ben is hypothetically going to have the ball in his hand...

Pull up jumpers are usually inefficient shots. If he is good enough that he is not forced to take them (instead he can get to the rim or find an open player)

Huh? He will need a pull up jumper in PnR if you want the Lebron and Grant Hill or even Odom comps to stick. No one said it had to be in high volume.

Lebron and Westbrook had something to work with in terms of footwork/form/balance and willing put in reps at a young age pulling up in-game. With Ben, there is nothing there. And thats ok if he doesn't have one because his skill set still has tons of value but there is obnoxious hyperbole abound.

[Illmatic12]

Regarding the Odom comparisons, I've said this before, but the only way that is a bad thing is if you think Ben will flame out and underachieve for the same reasons. The people bringing it up as a negative are seriously reaching, if anything an Odom comparison should be like "Oh damn, he has that much potential? Insane!" instead of a "Well, he's not any better than Odom was and look how that turned out.."

You're actually reaching, no one brought up the Odom comparison as a negative? He was an incredible prospect. When we see these guys in college against non-elite competition, we have no idea what type of game they would actually play in the NBA. We don't know what will translate and what won't - that's the whole science behind projecting prospects from one level of play to another.

Younger/prime Odom is a good facsimile for what a 6'10 guy with Simmons skillset *might* look like at the NBA level.


It's better than people lazily throwing out names like "Grant Hill" or "Lebron" .. that presents the wrong type of idea about how Simmons would play. Those guys were dominant scorers, with an aggressive scoring mindset.

Lamar Odom was a creator, not a dominant scorer. Similarly, Simmons is a creator in a 6'10 body, not a deadly scorer from the wing. The scoring skillset he has, is not going to translate to the NBA on an elite level. But the playmaking will.

I dunno, the Odom comparison is lazy for its own reasons. In fact, all comparisons are inherently lazy, because instead of breaking down a player, you just find the most similar looking package.

I do agree that Simmons is going to be more of a playmaker than a scorer - he seems to believe good basketball involves lots of ball-movement rather than ISO and pull-up scoring and I have to agree with him. That said, he has a fantastic touch near the basket and the ability to get anywhere he wants (even against NBA players), so I think he will be a fine scorer at the next level (15-20 pts, maybe a little more depending on usage), just not a transcendent one.

Well yeah, all comparisons are lazy on some level, without context. Maybe I should have added the qualifier that *Odom SHOULD have been a multiple All-Star, and I think Simmons will be if his development goes to plan.

If Giannis Antentokounmpo is able to score 18ppg (well SSS, but he's doing that so far this season), Simmons should at least be able to do that. They have somewhat similar skillsets, size, and operate in similar areas on the court. I don't think he wants to be a bigtime scorer though, that's why I don't get some of the comparisons being thrown out.

The reason why people go to Odom is because when everyone just looked at him, LO had the body type, skills, athleticism to be a bigtime scorer, but he didn't WANT to be that kind of player. He was great at what he did, but the whole 'coldblooded' scoring thing just wasn't his bag. Simmons just reminds me so much of Odom in that way - you might look at him and assume he's gonna be this unstoppable 6'10 scoring threat. But he wants to be an elite creator, not an elite finisher, which is refreshing in a way. I very much enjoyed watching Lamar Odom's unique game in his prime, I think Simmons will be even more fun to watch.

[jpatrick]

I think Giannis is a good comp. He's longer than Simmons but Simmons is a better ball handling/passer. If either can develop a consistent jumper, they're a superstar.

What scares me a little is that I read JG from DX said that he got to the Marquette/LSU game early just to see Simmons in warmups and even then, Simmons only hit 2 out of 30 from the college three. He's got some work to do.

http://m.foxsports.com.au/basketball/ben-simmons-huge-performance-praised-apart-from-one-glaring-weakness-us-view/story-e6frf3f3-1227621417809