Tiers

[Gant]

As the draft gets closer, mocks become more useful as individual teams begin to lean towards certain players. Tiers are useful throughout the process.

Is it a huge muddled second (and third) tier this season? Is it more clear than that? What are your tiers?

[eskimo]

Tier 1: Simmons, Ingram

Tier 2: Bender, Murray, Dunn

Tier 3: Unsure at this point but includes Baldwin, Valentine, Luwawu, Ellenson, Hield

[No-Man]

This year's is extremely difficult honestly;

Tier 1 NBA All Stars, potentially franchise changers

Ben Simmons/Brandon Ingram
Dragan Bender

Tier 2 possibly All Stars, starters

Kris Dunn
Wade Baldwin IV
Timothé Luwawu
Marquese Chriss
Jaylen Brown
Furkan Korkmaz
Ivica Zubac

Tier 3 NBA solid contributors, could be as starters or as bench players

Denzel Valentine
Patrick McCaw
Henry Ellenson
Juancho Hernangómez
DeAndre Bembry
Domantas Sabonis
Robert Carter Jr.
Stephen Zimmerman
Deyonta Davis
Jakob Poeltl
Chinanu Onuaku
Malik Beasley
Gary Payton II
AJ Hammons
Taurean Prince
Jamal Murray
Ante Zizic
Brice Johnson
Pascal Siakam
Dorian Finney-Smith

Tier 4 possibly top-notch bench players to rotation guys

Ron Baker
Tyler Ulis
Malcolm Brogdon
Buddy Hield
Rade Zagorac
Guerschon Yabusele
Joel Bolomboy
Caris LeVert
Petr Cornelie
Demetrius Jackson
Fred VanVleet
Kay Felder
Troy Williams
Damian Jones
Ben Bentil
Zhou Qi
Derrick Jones Jr.
Jake Layman
Malachi Richardson
Dejounte Murray
Skal Labissiere
Thon Maker
Cheick Diallo
Paul Zipser
Michael Gbinije
Josh Adams
Marko Guduric
James Webb III
Marko Arapovic
Prince Ibeh
Mathias Lessort
Julian Jacobs
Daniel Hamilton
Diamond Stone
Anthony Barber
Isaiah Whitehead
Sheldon McClellan
Rasheed Sulaimon
Jarrod Uthoff
Isaiah Cousins

Tier 5 mix of players with marginal NBA skills/low chance of hitting their ceiling

Danuel House
Jalen Jones
Brannen Greene
Wayne Selden
John Brown
Thomas Walkup
Terry Tarpey
Georges Niang
Dyshawn Pierre
Moussa Diagné
Devin Williams
Yogi Ferrell
Isaiah Taylor
Tim Quarterman
Danilo Fuzaro
David Walker
Jordan Fouse
Shaquille Harrison
Jameel Warney
Shawn Long
Nikola Ivanovic
Marcus Paige
Nic Moore
Markus Kennedy
Rosco Allen
Alex Caruso
Tyrone Wallace
Alex Poythress
Jonathan Holton
Winston Shepard
Armani Moore
Isaiah Miles
Shaq Goodwin
Daniel Ochefu
Egidijus Mockevicius
Elgin Cook
Andrey Desyatnikov
Kyle Collinsworth
Roosevelt Jones
Maodo Lo
Anthony Gill
Kaleb Tarczewski
Bryn Forbes
Marvelle Harris
Stefan Moody
Andrew Andrews
Damion Lee
A.J. English
Perry Ellis
Kyle Wiltjer
Marshall Plumlee
Tony Parker
Zach Auguste
Mike Tobey
Ryan Anderson

[No-Man]

Added to the previous post -sorry-

[sweetcity]

Tier 1 Franchise Player - Ben Simmons

Tier 2 - Potential All Stars - Brandon Ingram, Kris Dunn, Dragon Bender

Tier 3 - Good Starters - Jaylen Brown, Poetl, Davis, Luwawu,

Tier 4 - Excellent Role Players - Buddy Hield, Jamal Murray, Korkmaz, Ellenson, McCaw

Tier 5 - Good Role Players - Sabonis, Beasley, Valentine, Diallo, Prince, Bentil, Baldwin

Tier 6 - Bench players - B johnson, Siakam, Bembry, Brogden,

Tier 7 - Unknown - Chriss, Skal, D Murray, M Richardson, S Zimmerman, Maker

[sweetcity]

All I care about is who the Raptors pick.... so based on my own tier analysis, I hope to God they trade the 9th pick....

[Cammo101]

Tier 1:

1. Ben Simmons (6'10'', SF, LSU, Fresh.)
2. Brandon Ingram (6'9'', SF, Duke, Fresh.)
3. Dragan Bender (7'0'', PF, Croatia)

Tier 2:

4. Kris Dunn (6'4'', PG, Providence, Jr.)
5. Buddy Hield (6'5'', SG, Oklahoma, Sr.)
6. Jamal Murray (6'4'', SG, Kentucky, Fresh.)
7. Jaylen Brown (6'7'', SF, California, Fresh.)
8. Jakob Poeltl (7'0'', C, Utah, Soph.)

Tier 3:

9. Henry Ellenson (6'10'', PF, Marquette, Fresh.)
10. Wade Baldwin (6'4'', PG, Vanderbilt, Soph.)
11. Marquese Chriss (6'10'', PF, Washington, Fresh.)
12. Deyonta Davis (6'10'', PF, Michigan State, Fresh.)
13. Timothe Luwawu (6'7'', SG, France)
14. Domantas Sabonis (6'10'', PF, Gonzaga, Soph.)
15. Denzel Valentine (6'5'', SG, Michigan State, Sr.)

Tier 4:

16. Furkan Korkmaz (6'7'', SG, Turkey)
17. Thon Maker (7'1'', C, Australia)
18. Cheick Diallo (6'9'', PF, Kansas, Fresh.)
19. Damian Jones (7'0'', C, Vanderbilt, Jr.)
20. Dejounte Murray (6'5'', SG, Washington, Fresh.)
21. Demetrius Jackson (6'1'', PG, Notre Dame, Jr.)
22. Diamond Stone (6'11'', C, Maryland, Fresh.)
23. Malachi Richardson (6'6'', SG, Syracuse, Fresh.)
24. Ante Zizic (6'11'', C, Croatia)
25. Skal Labissiere (7'0'', PF, Kentucky, Fresh.)
26. Stephen Zimmerman (7'0'', C, UNLV, Fresh.)
27. Malik Beasley (6'5'', SG, Florida State, Fresh.)

Tier 5:

28. Brice Johnson (6'10'', PF, North Carolina, Sr.)
29. Tyler Ulis (5'9'', PG, Kentucky, Soph.)
30. Pascal Siakam (6'9'', PF, New Mexico State, Soph.)
31. Caris LeVert (6'6'', SG, Michigan, Sr.)
32. Ivica Zubac (7'1'', C, Bosnia)
33. Chinanu Onuaku (6'10'', C, Louisville, Soph.)
34. Ben Bentil (6'8'', PF, Providence, Soph.)
35. Taurean Prince (6'7'', SF, Baylor, Sr.)
36. Juan Hernangomez (6'9'', PF, Spain)
37. AJ Hammons (7'0'', C, Purdue, Sr.)
38. Patrick McCaw (6'7'', SG, UNLV, Soph.)
39. Gary Payton Jr. (6'3'', PG, Oregon State, Sr.)
40. Petr Cornelie (6'11'', C, France)
41. Anthony Barber (6'2'', PG, North Carolina State, Jr.)
42. Kay Felder (5'9'', PG, Oakland, Jr.)
43. Joel Bolomboy (6'9'', PF, Weber State, Sr.)
44. DeAndre Bembry (6'6'', SF, St. Joseph's, Jr.)
45. Zhou Qi (7'1'', C, China)
46. Daniel Hamilton (6'8'', SF, Connecticut, Soph.)
47. Jarrod Uthoff (6'9'', PF, Iowa, Sr.)
48. Tim Quarterman (6'6'', SG, LSU, Jr.)
49. Guerschon Yabusele (6'8'', PF, France)
50. Paul Zipser (6'8'', SF, Germany)

[Catchall]

Tier 1 - Franchise player
Simmons

Tier 2 - Projected All Star
Ingram, Murray

Tier 3 - Projected Potential All Star / Borderline All Star
Dunn, Hield, Bender, Poeltl, Brown (I might drop him a tier depending on his shooting consistency)

Tier 4 - High Upside / Limited Downside
Labissiere, Chriss, Deytona Davis, Ellenson, Baldwin, Beasley, Luwawu, Korkmaz, Prince, Maker (note: This guy is one of the top recruits in his class for years, gets unfairly compared to KG and Anthony Davis, and now somehow gets underrated like he's lucky to go first round. He'll be a good defensive player if he gains strength and he has better than average shooting touch, so there's no real downside here.)

Tier 5 - High Upside / Significant Risk --or-- Limited Ceiling / Limited Downside
Richardson, Dejoute Murray, Levert, Ullis, Demetrius Jackson, Valendine (worried about his defense), etc. I'd put Sabonis here, but it depends on whether you like big PFs with limited defensive ability, e.g., Kanter.

[EMG518]

Tier 1
Ben Simmons

Tier 2
Brandon Ingram

Tier 3
Kahlil Felder
Thon Maker
Malachi Richardson
Skal Labissiere
Henry Ellenson
Jacob Poetl
Buddy Hield
Jamal Murray
Dragan Bender


Tier 4
Cat Barber
Malcolm Brogdon
Patrick McCaw
Stephen Zimmerman
Furkan Korkmaz
Zhou Qi
David Walker
Ivica Zubac

Tier 5
Demetrius Jackson
Damantas Sabonis
Taurean Prince
Timothe Luwawu
Wade Baldwin
Marquese Chriss
Kris Dunn
Jaylen Brown

[MalonesElbows]

"Tiers" are always funny, people remocking in groups of 3.

[sam_I_am]

I think the tier system doesn't always factor in a major variable. What is safe bet for ceiling and what is ultimate ceiling. For Buddy Hield it is probably the same: Tier 2 solid starter potential all star. Then you get a guy like Chriss who if he maximizes his combination of hops, face up game, shooting and size you could have an all star but its probably more likely he is a career bench player. Ditto Bender who doesnt seem to have alpha scorer talent but is so unique could end up best player in draft. Does that make him tier 1 or tier 3?

[Gant]

"Tiers" are always funny, people remocking in groups of 3.

It still matters.

No one has every player in the draft clearly above and below every other player. If you can establish the tier, then need becomes the tie breaker and the draft becomes more clear. Sometimes so does a team's eagerness to trade.

This draft it's not very useful as shown by the nearly complete disagreement on this year's tiers. The real NBA decision makers are reportedly in just as much disagreement.

The only thing that's uniform is Simmons and Ingram on the very top level, occasionally with a slight chance Bender could sneak in there. With a few exceptions, the rest of the lottery is jumbled. Post lottery into the early second round is chaos.

[King Ken]

Tier 1: Top tier talent. None
Tier 2: Potential perennial All stars: Simmons and Ingram
Tier 3: Potentially good players: Hield, Brown, Dunn, Bender, Chriss Murrray, Utah center kid, Qi, Luwawu, Baldwin and Ellenson.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[bwgood77]

All I care about is who the Raptors pick.... so based on my own tier analysis, I hope to God they trade the 9th pick....

Would you trade it along with something else for the 4th pick? And if so, what sweetener would you throw in for the 4th? Delon Wright?

[bwgood77]

Tier 1: Top tier talent. None
Tier 2: Potential perennial All stars: Simmons and Ingram
Tier 3: Potentially good players: Hield, Brown, Dunn, Bender, Chriss Murrray, Utah center kid, Qi, Luwawu, Baldwin and Ellenson.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

That sounds reasonable. Exactly how I would describe each tier as well.

[Rapsobsessed7]

All I care about is who the Raptors pick.... so based on my own tier analysis, I hope to God they trade the 9th pick....

Would you trade it along with something else for the 4th pick? And if so, what sweetener would you throw in for the 4th? Delon Wright?

Um yes in a instant. What else would you want

[bwgood77]

All I care about is who the Raptors pick.... so based on my own tier analysis, I hope to God they trade the 9th pick....

Would you trade it along with something else for the 4th pick? And if so, what sweetener would you throw in for the 4th? Delon Wright?

Um yes in a instant. What else would you want

How about Delon Wright, PPat and the number 9? Personally I wouldn't do it if Bender is there at 4, but if not I probably would because we need a PF and I don't think you necessarily get a better one at 4 than you do at 9.

[HotelVitale]

I think the tier system doesn't always factor in a major variable. What is safe bet for ceiling and what is ultimate ceiling. For Buddy Hield it is probably the same: Tier 2 solid starter potential all star. Then you get a guy like Chriss who if he maximizes his combination of hops, face up game, shooting and size you could have an all star but its probably more likely he is a career bench player. Ditto Bender who doesnt seem to have alpha scorer talent but is so unique could end up best player in draft. Does that make him tier 1 or tier 3?

Hmm, only really weird tiers wouldn't take that into account. A tier system involves the same evaluation of players as a mock or anything else: you take into account a guy's upside as well as his current skill and development level, and try to to balance out pie-in-the-sky ceiling and safety and the most likely outcome for him. Then you just put the guys into levels based on how good they are, given that balance of things.

The reason tiers are useful is that some prospects are clearly better than others--they're just flat-out better mixtures of size, upside, current development/skill level, etc--but some are roughly at the same level. So there might be five guys whom you basically feel the same enthusiasm for, and instead of mocking them arbitrarily you get to put them altogether as 'basically the same level as units of upside/likelihood of reaching it.'

[El Turco]

All I care about is who the Raptors pick.... so based on my own tier analysis, I hope to God they trade the 9th pick....

Would you trade it along with something else for the 4th pick? And if so, what sweetener would you throw in for the 4th? Delon Wright?

that's a terrible deal for suns, they dont need wright anyway.

[Spens1]

Tier 1:
Brandon Ingram
Ben Simmons

Tier 2:
Budd Hield
Kris Dunn
Jamal Murray
Dragan Bender
Jaylen Brown

Tier 3:
Marquesse Chriss
Daytona Davis
Skal Labissiere
Jakob Poetl
Henry Elleson

Tier 4:
Denzel Valentine
Wade Baldwin
Furkan Korkmaz
Timothe Luwawu
Domantas Sabonis
Damian Jones

Tier 5:
Taurean Prince
Ante Zizic
Ivica Zubac
Demetrius Jackson
Tyler Ulis
Cheick Diallo
Brice Johnson
DeAndre Brembry

Tier 6:
Juan Hermangomez
Petr Corniele
Zhou Qi
Malik Beasley
Malachi Richardson
Thon Maker
Dejounte Murray