Who's better: Josh Jackson or Andrew Wiggins?

[crazy_me_87]

that shot is so ugly. looks even uglier when he's creating his own shot, could be a problem at the next level.

Yes his jumper is weird but it seems servicable. His shots are going in at a solid rate.
I am a bit worried about his FT%

Like with most hyperathletic wings his jumper is his one big weakness.
But his shot is not broken so its clear that his shot will improve.
Everyone improves his jumper after a few years in the NBA.

Its the same argument as it is with Ben Simmons even though Josh is a better Shooter already.. I gladly take the Kid that has amazing all around skills and a great feel for the game, that only needs to focus on becoming just an average Shooter to be a Superstar over a Kid that can shoot but has no feel for the game and has no all around skills.

I repeat my Argument from Ben: We have become so enamoured with Shooting the recent years that we forget that there is more to a great Player than his Shot.

Guys like Josh,Ben,Kahwi,Andrew who come into the NBA where people seriously question their Jumper all have/had not broken Jumpers that with Alot of practice can at least become solid shooters..

[Mattya]

Yeah, I think you guys are giving Josh Jackson the benefit of the doubt a little too much. He should already be in the NBA. Some of the guys in his "class" are a good 16 months younger. This dude isn't so great that his age doesn't make a difference whatsoever. That doesn't mean he can't be viewed similarly as Wiggins, but I view him more in the sense that he has to go above and beyond his peers, because his peers (Simmons, Ingram, Jaylen Brown, Murray) played last year.

Yea, to me if he doesn't clearly out perform what Wiggins did in his freshman year, then there is very little reason for him to be considered a better prospect. That is the other side of the experience argument. I'll wait until we see his defense in the NBA before I'm willing to say he is actually a better defender. He may get rebounds, force turnovers(parts of defense) and get more assists, but I doubt his handle will make him as good of a scorer as Wiggins and his defense in the NBA is theoretical at this point(as was/is Wiggins). They both have the tools though. I don't buy the aggression stuff, people have boasted other prospects aggression and attitude as the reason why other prospects will be better yet never were.

[Kolkmania]

that shot is so ugly. looks even uglier when he's creating his own shot, could be a problem at the next level.

Yes his jumper is weird but it seems servicable. His shots are going in at a solid rate.
I am a bit worried about his FT%

Like with most hyperathletic wings his jumper is his one big weakness.
But his shot is not broken so its clear that his shot will improve.
Everyone improves his jumper after a few years in the NBA.

Its the same argument as it is with Ben Simmons even though Josh is a better Shooter already.. I gladly take the Kid that has amazing all around skills and a great feel for the game, that only needs to focus on becoming just an average Shooter to be a Superstar over a Kid that can shoot but has no feel for the game and has no all around skills.

I repeat my Argument from Ben: We have become so enamoured with Shooting the recent years that we forget that there is more to a great Player than his Shot.

Guys like Josh,Ben,Kahwi,Andrew who come into the NBA where people seriously question their Jumper all have/had not broken Jumpers that with Alot of practice can at least become solid shooters..

But Ben Simmons was in a so-called two man draft with Brandon Ingram. I don't think Ben Simmons would be the clear number one pick in the current draft, not even sure he's in the first tier (Markelle Fultz, Dennis Smith Jr and maybe Josh Jackson for me). Also, we remember the "poor" college shooters that turned into great shooters and bring that up as a common thing, great players develop into decent shooters. However, there are plenty examples of prospects that never managed to develop their shooting form the way we hoped. Those players are regularly left out in these sort of conversations.

That said, I have several problems with his shooting:
1. His incredible inconsistent shooting form, he doesn't fully extend his elbow and at times he's so quick with his release that it's not even past his elbow (which is quite far out with the alignment to the basket by the way). There are examples of great shooters who don't fully extend either (Danny Green for example), but most of these players translate their energy from wrist action.
2. Related to his shooting form, but his release point is very low. Right now he's able to get his shot of in time, but it's mainly because of him elevating really high. I could imagine that it would be more difficult to get good looks in the NBA.
3. That brings us to my third point, his footwork prior to his shot. Right now it's nearly non existent and it's extremely exposed during his catch and shoot motion. There's almost zero 1-2 or hop action and his body rotation towards the basket isn't consistent either. These footwork problems prior to catch and shoot could explain why he looks better shooting off the dribble to me.

Everybody has their preferences with shooting, so I'm not saying that all of these things should be perfect. However, it does need more consistency to hit jumpers at decent percentages. Could it be fixed, sure it could. It does need a ton of work, but Jackson has the right work ethic.

[Big_C_KU]

JJ filed the stat sheet tonight against low-major UNC-Ashville.

14 pts (5-11 shooting), 4 rebounds, 7 asts, 2 stls, 3 blks, 1 TO in 29 minutes.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Jackson's career hinges on improving 2 things:

3PT: 28% High School / 25% College
FT: 55% High School / 51% College

[Marcus]

JJ filed the stat sheet tonight against low-major UNC-Ashville.

14 pts (5-11 shooting), 4 rebounds, 7 asts, 2 stls, 3 blks, 1 TO in 29 minutes.

The highlights of that game shows how different they are as players.

[ItsThatEasy]

JJ filed the stat sheet tonight against low-major UNC-Ashville.

14 pts (5-11 shooting), 4 rebounds, 7 asts, 2 stls, 3 blks, 1 TO in 29 minutes.

The highlights of that game shows how different they are as players.

JJ's floor is a lot higher than Wiggins coming out of college.

If his jumper never improves he's still a do it all forward with great defense, a glue guy on a contender. His passing is just lightyears ahead of Wiggins as a prospect.

[snoopdogg88]

that shot is so ugly. looks even uglier when he's creating his own shot, could be a problem at the next level.

Yes his jumper is weird but it seems servicable. His shots are going in at a solid rate.
I am a bit worried about his FT%

Like with most hyperathletic wings his jumper is his one big weakness.
But his shot is not broken so its clear that his shot will improve.
Everyone improves his jumper after a few years in the NBA.

Its the same argument as it is with Ben Simmons even though Josh is a better Shooter already.. I gladly take the Kid that has amazing all around skills and a great feel for the game, that only needs to focus on becoming just an average Shooter to be a Superstar over a Kid that can shoot but has no feel for the game and has no all around skills.

I repeat my Argument from Ben: We have become so enamoured with Shooting the recent years that we forget that there is more to a great Player than his Shot.

Guys like Josh,Ben,Kahwi,Andrew who come into the NBA where people seriously question their Jumper all have/had not broken Jumpers that with Alot of practice can at least become solid shooters..

But Ben Simmons was in a so-called two man draft with Brandon Ingram. I don't think Ben Simmons would be the clear number one pick in the current draft, not even sure he's in the first tier (Markelle Fultz, Dennis Smith Jr and maybe Josh Jackson for me). Also, we remember the "poor" college shooters that turned into great shooters and bring that up as a common thing, great players develop into decent shooters. However, there are plenty examples of prospects that never managed to develop their shooting form the way we hoped. Those players are regularly left out in these sort of conversations.

That said, I have several problems with his shooting:
1. His incredible inconsistent shooting form, he doesn't fully extend his elbow and at times he's so quick with his release that it's not even past his elbow (which is quite far out with the alignment to the basket by the way). There are examples of great shooters who don't fully extend either (Danny Green for example), but most of these players translate their energy from wrist action.
2. Related to his shooting form, but his release point is very low. Right now he's able to get his shot of in time, but it's mainly because of him elevating really high. I could imagine that it would be more difficult to get good looks in the NBA.
3. That brings us to my third point, his footwork prior to his shot. Right now it's nearly non existent and it's extremely exposed during his catch and shoot motion. There's almost zero 1-2 or hop action and his body rotation towards the basket isn't consistent either. These footwork problems prior to catch and shoot could explain why he looks better shooting off the dribble to me.

Everybody has their preferences with shooting, so I'm not saying that all of these things should be perfect. However, it does need more consistency to hit jumpers at decent percentages. Could it be fixed, sure it could. It does need a ton of work, but Jackson has the right work ethic.

stop it. Ben Simmons is easily the #1 pick in the 2017 Draft.

[Mattya]

Yes his jumper is weird but it seems servicable. His shots are going in at a solid rate.
I am a bit worried about his FT%

Like with most hyperathletic wings his jumper is his one big weakness.
But his shot is not broken so its clear that his shot will improve.
Everyone improves his jumper after a few years in the NBA.

Its the same argument as it is with Ben Simmons even though Josh is a better Shooter already.. I gladly take the Kid that has amazing all around skills and a great feel for the game, that only needs to focus on becoming just an average Shooter to be a Superstar over a Kid that can shoot but has no feel for the game and has no all around skills.

I repeat my Argument from Ben: We have become so enamoured with Shooting the recent years that we forget that there is more to a great Player than his Shot.

Guys like Josh,Ben,Kahwi,Andrew who come into the NBA where people seriously question their Jumper all have/had not broken Jumpers that with Alot of practice can at least become solid shooters..

But Ben Simmons was in a so-called two man draft with Brandon Ingram. I don't think Ben Simmons would be the clear number one pick in the current draft, not even sure he's in the first tier (Markelle Fultz, Dennis Smith Jr and maybe Josh Jackson for me). Also, we remember the "poor" college shooters that turned into great shooters and bring that up as a common thing, great players develop into decent shooters. However, there are plenty examples of prospects that never managed to develop their shooting form the way we hoped. Those players are regularly left out in these sort of conversations.

That said, I have several problems with his shooting:
1. His incredible inconsistent shooting form, he doesn't fully extend his elbow and at times he's so quick with his release that it's not even past his elbow (which is quite far out with the alignment to the basket by the way). There are examples of great shooters who don't fully extend either (Danny Green for example), but most of these players translate their energy from wrist action.
2. Related to his shooting form, but his release point is very low. Right now he's able to get his shot of in time, but it's mainly because of him elevating really high. I could imagine that it would be more difficult to get good looks in the NBA.
3. That brings us to my third point, his footwork prior to his shot. Right now it's nearly non existent and it's extremely exposed during his catch and shoot motion. There's almost zero 1-2 or hop action and his body rotation towards the basket isn't consistent either. These footwork problems prior to catch and shoot could explain why he looks better shooting off the dribble to me.

Everybody has their preferences with shooting, so I'm not saying that all of these things should be perfect. However, it does need more consistency to hit jumpers at decent percentages. Could it be fixed, sure it could. It does need a ton of work, but Jackson has the right work ethic.

stop it. Ben Simmons is easily the #1 pick in the 2017 Draft.

Easily? Na. In the convo, sure.

[EMG518]

stop it. Ben Simmons is easily the #1 pick in the 2017 Draft.

Fultz is the clear #1 in this draft whether Simmons is in or not.

[mtr15]

Both Josh Jackson and Andrew Wiggins had monster dunks this past week. Which one was better? Personally, I have to say Jackson vs UAB. Much more explosive and better crowd reaction. Plus, Kansas won while the Timberwolves lost.

[cyclix]

Wiggins has nowhere the playmaking/ballhandling skills as JJ, though Wiggins is great at getting to the line.

JJ reminds me of a Raptors McGrady while Wiggins is more of a taller DeRozan.

[clyde21]

Yes his jumper is weird but it seems servicable. His shots are going in at a solid rate.
I am a bit worried about his FT%

Like with most hyperathletic wings his jumper is his one big weakness.
But his shot is not broken so its clear that his shot will improve.
Everyone improves his jumper after a few years in the NBA.

Its the same argument as it is with Ben Simmons even though Josh is a better Shooter already.. I gladly take the Kid that has amazing all around skills and a great feel for the game, that only needs to focus on becoming just an average Shooter to be a Superstar over a Kid that can shoot but has no feel for the game and has no all around skills.

I repeat my Argument from Ben: We have become so enamoured with Shooting the recent years that we forget that there is more to a great Player than his Shot.

Guys like Josh,Ben,Kahwi,Andrew who come into the NBA where people seriously question their Jumper all have/had not broken Jumpers that with Alot of practice can at least become solid shooters..

But Ben Simmons was in a so-called two man draft with Brandon Ingram. I don't think Ben Simmons would be the clear number one pick in the current draft, not even sure he's in the first tier (Markelle Fultz, Dennis Smith Jr and maybe Josh Jackson for me). Also, we remember the "poor" college shooters that turned into great shooters and bring that up as a common thing, great players develop into decent shooters. However, there are plenty examples of prospects that never managed to develop their shooting form the way we hoped. Those players are regularly left out in these sort of conversations.

That said, I have several problems with his shooting:
1. His incredible inconsistent shooting form, he doesn't fully extend his elbow and at times he's so quick with his release that it's not even past his elbow (which is quite far out with the alignment to the basket by the way). There are examples of great shooters who don't fully extend either (Danny Green for example), but most of these players translate their energy from wrist action.
2. Related to his shooting form, but his release point is very low. Right now he's able to get his shot of in time, but it's mainly because of him elevating really high. I could imagine that it would be more difficult to get good looks in the NBA.
3. That brings us to my third point, his footwork prior to his shot. Right now it's nearly non existent and it's extremely exposed during his catch and shoot motion. There's almost zero 1-2 or hop action and his body rotation towards the basket isn't consistent either. These footwork problems prior to catch and shoot could explain why he looks better shooting off the dribble to me.

Everybody has their preferences with shooting, so I'm not saying that all of these things should be perfect. However, it does need more consistency to hit jumpers at decent percentages. Could it be fixed, sure it could. It does need a ton of work, but Jackson has the right work ethic.

stop it. Ben Simmons is easily the #1 pick in the 2017 Draft.

He'd have a case, but not "easily" by any stretch of the imagination. I know hyperbole is quite trendy 'round these parts, but you stop it.

[Duke4life831]

Yes his jumper is weird but it seems servicable. His shots are going in at a solid rate.
I am a bit worried about his FT%

Like with most hyperathletic wings his jumper is his one big weakness.
But his shot is not broken so its clear that his shot will improve.
Everyone improves his jumper after a few years in the NBA.

Its the same argument as it is with Ben Simmons even though Josh is a better Shooter already.. I gladly take the Kid that has amazing all around skills and a great feel for the game, that only needs to focus on becoming just an average Shooter to be a Superstar over a Kid that can shoot but has no feel for the game and has no all around skills.

I repeat my Argument from Ben: We have become so enamoured with Shooting the recent years that we forget that there is more to a great Player than his Shot.

Guys like Josh,Ben,Kahwi,Andrew who come into the NBA where people seriously question their Jumper all have/had not broken Jumpers that with Alot of practice can at least become solid shooters..

But Ben Simmons was in a so-called two man draft with Brandon Ingram. I don't think Ben Simmons would be the clear number one pick in the current draft, not even sure he's in the first tier (Markelle Fultz, Dennis Smith Jr and maybe Josh Jackson for me). Also, we remember the "poor" college shooters that turned into great shooters and bring that up as a common thing, great players develop into decent shooters. However, there are plenty examples of prospects that never managed to develop their shooting form the way we hoped. Those players are regularly left out in these sort of conversations.

That said, I have several problems with his shooting:
1. His incredible inconsistent shooting form, he doesn't fully extend his elbow and at times he's so quick with his release that it's not even past his elbow (which is quite far out with the alignment to the basket by the way). There are examples of great shooters who don't fully extend either (Danny Green for example), but most of these players translate their energy from wrist action.
2. Related to his shooting form, but his release point is very low. Right now he's able to get his shot of in time, but it's mainly because of him elevating really high. I could imagine that it would be more difficult to get good looks in the NBA.
3. That brings us to my third point, his footwork prior to his shot. Right now it's nearly non existent and it's extremely exposed during his catch and shoot motion. There's almost zero 1-2 or hop action and his body rotation towards the basket isn't consistent either. These footwork problems prior to catch and shoot could explain why he looks better shooting off the dribble to me.

Everybody has their preferences with shooting, so I'm not saying that all of these things should be perfect. However, it does need more consistency to hit jumpers at decent percentages. Could it be fixed, sure it could. It does need a ton of work, but Jackson has the right work ethic.

stop it. Ben Simmons is easily the #1 pick in the 2017 Draft.

Sure he could've been in the discussion, but no he wouldn't be the easy#1 pick. I think you can make the argument he wouldn't go to 5 in this draft.

I think Ball is the better prospect than Simmons. Ball is just as good of a passer, but actually plays defense and can actually shoot.

[ItsThatEasy]

But Ben Simmons was in a so-called two man draft with Brandon Ingram. I don't think Ben Simmons would be the clear number one pick in the current draft, not even sure he's in the first tier (Markelle Fultz, Dennis Smith Jr and maybe Josh Jackson for me). Also, we remember the "poor" college shooters that turned into great shooters and bring that up as a common thing, great players develop into decent shooters. However, there are plenty examples of prospects that never managed to develop their shooting form the way we hoped. Those players are regularly left out in these sort of conversations.

That said, I have several problems with his shooting:
1. His incredible inconsistent shooting form, he doesn't fully extend his elbow and at times he's so quick with his release that it's not even past his elbow (which is quite far out with the alignment to the basket by the way). There are examples of great shooters who don't fully extend either (Danny Green for example), but most of these players translate their energy from wrist action.
2. Related to his shooting form, but his release point is very low. Right now he's able to get his shot of in time, but it's mainly because of him elevating really high. I could imagine that it would be more difficult to get good looks in the NBA.
3. That brings us to my third point, his footwork prior to his shot. Right now it's nearly non existent and it's extremely exposed during his catch and shoot motion. There's almost zero 1-2 or hop action and his body rotation towards the basket isn't consistent either. These footwork problems prior to catch and shoot could explain why he looks better shooting off the dribble to me.

Everybody has their preferences with shooting, so I'm not saying that all of these things should be perfect. However, it does need more consistency to hit jumpers at decent percentages. Could it be fixed, sure it could. It does need a ton of work, but Jackson has the right work ethic.

stop it. Ben Simmons is easily the #1 pick in the 2017 Draft.

Sure he could've been in the discussion, but no he wouldn't be the easy#1 pick. I think you can make the argument he wouldn't go to 5 in this draft.

I think Ball is the better prospect than Simmons. Ball is just as good of a passer, but actually plays defense and can actually shoot.

Ball a better prospect than Simmons?

Yikes...

[Duke4life831]

stop it. Ben Simmons is easily the #1 pick in the 2017 Draft.

Sure he could've been in the discussion, but no he wouldn't be the easy#1 pick. I think you can make the argument he wouldn't go to 5 in this draft.

I think Ball is the better prospect than Simmons. Ball is just as good of a passer, but actually plays defense and can actually shoot.

Ball a better prospect than Simmons?

Yikes...

The only thing I give Simmons the edge over is strength. Ball actually has a jumper, its ugly but its been effective so far. Ball is the far superior defender and Ball racks up assists at a much higher pace while not turning it over nearly as much. Ball is a huge PG at 6'6. Ball also has a position at PG.

Simmons has great vision and is a very flashy passer but has a pretty bad AST/TO ratio, always has. His total lack of a jumper really limits how you can play him offensively.

[Jkam31]

Sure he could've been in the discussion, but no he wouldn't be the easy#1 pick. I think you can make the argument he wouldn't go to 5 in this draft.

I think Ball is the better prospect than Simmons. Ball is just as good of a passer, but actually plays defense and can actually shoot.

Ball a better prospect than Simmons?

Yikes...

The only thing I give Simmons the edge over is strength. Ball actually has a jumper, its ugly but its been effective so far. Ball is the far superior defender and Ball racks up assists at a much higher pace while not turning it over nearly as much. Ball is a huge PG at 6'6. Ball also has a position at PG.

Simmons has great vision and is a very flashy passer but has a pretty bad AST/TO ratio, always has. His total lack of a jumper really limits how you can play him offensively.

I might agree with this. Only a sample size but Ball is at 48% from 3 in 38 attempts which is huge comparing them


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Mattya]

Both Josh Jackson and Andrew Wiggins had monster dunks this past week. Which one was better? Personally, I have to say Jackson vs UAB. Much more explosive and better crowd reaction. Plus, Kansas won while the Timberwolves lost.

Really? Wiggins dunk is certainly more impressive to me. Who won there game has to do with which dunk is more impressive unless you want to compare the Warriors to UAB.

[Duke4life831]

Ball a better prospect than Simmons?

Yikes...

The only thing I give Simmons the edge over is strength. Ball actually has a jumper, its ugly but its been effective so far. Ball is the far superior defender and Ball racks up assists at a much higher pace while not turning it over nearly as much. Ball is a huge PG at 6'6. Ball also has a position at PG.

Simmons has great vision and is a very flashy passer but has a pretty bad AST/TO ratio, always has. His total lack of a jumper really limits how you can play him offensively.

I might agree with this. Only a sample size but Ball is at 48% from 3 in 38 attempts which is huge comparing them


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

The whole thing with Simmons was how good of a passer he was at his size. So far in high school and college his passing has been more flash over substance. Again the only thing I see giving Simmons the edge on is he has 4 inches on Ball and is stronger. But Simmons doesnt really have a size or strength advantage over guys he will be guarding and will be guarded by. Ball at 6'6 is going to be one of the taller PGs in the NBA. People question how is Ball going to score in the half court, at least he has that 3 point shot with deep deep range. How is Simmons going to score in the half court thats not off of lobs? And again Ball is the better defender, Simmons is far from a rim protector and is bad guarding out on the perimeter. Being a great passer as a 4 is great, but its not the most important skill for a 4 in the NBA. Thats like having a PG that is a great rebounder, ya its a great thing to have for sure, just look at Westbrook. But as a skill level for the position, its kinda farther down the priority list.

There is talk of Philly making Simmons as their PG. If we compare the two as just PG prospects its not even close. Ball is the far superior pure PG prospect.

[Kolkmania]

Sure he could've been in the discussion, but no he wouldn't be the easy#1 pick. I think you can make the argument he wouldn't go to 5 in this draft.

I think Ball is the better prospect than Simmons. Ball is just as good of a passer, but actually plays defense and can actually shoot.

Ball a better prospect than Simmons?

Yikes...

The only thing I give Simmons the edge over is strength. Ball actually has a jumper, its ugly but its been effective so far. Ball is the far superior defender and Ball racks up assists at a much higher pace while not turning it over nearly as much. Ball is a huge PG at 6'6. Ball also has a position at PG.

Simmons has great vision and is a very flashy passer but has a pretty bad AST/TO ratio, always has. His total lack of a jumper really limits how you can play him offensively.

On a side note, I feel that 90% of Ball's assists are in transition or passing to Leaf/Hamilton/Holiday/etc who hit somewhat contested shots from midrange/behind the arch. The whole offense of UCLA fits Ball like a glove, I have to see more creativity after penetrating the defense and execute pick and roll plays to conclude that Ball is potentially a more efficient playmaker in the NBA.

Btw, I'm a Sixers fan and Simmons will not play PG. He played the entire Summer League as 4 and that's where the majority of his minutes will be spent, perhaps interchangeable with the small forward position if he's paired with Robert Covington or Dario Saric. So, he'll definitely have physical mismatches. He's really quick for a power forward and he has the frame to bully his way through 3's. Opponents will have smaller forwards guard him, so let's see how his shooting form and post touch develops.

Not sure yet on the defensive comparisons as well. The times that Simmons was focused he really showed great lateral quickness on the defensive end, Ball is a versatile defender since he could be capable of defending 1-3/4 positions in the NBA, but I've seen him somewhat struggling with fighting through screens and get blown by PG's. Perhaps he's better suited at defending SG's in his adjustment period in the NBA. However, I've not rewatched UCLA vs Texas A&M and other than that confrontation they haven't encountered any decent teams, so we'll see.

I've got 3 december marked on my agenda: UCLA @ UK. Let's see how he handles guards with the quickness of De'Aaron Fox.