Jonathan Isaac or Brandon Ingram?

[MotownMadness]

I feel like both of these guys are too timid. They don't have that alpha star mentality. Very nice prospects though when you consider their size and measures to go with their skill sets.

[GimmeDat]

I've got a bunch of people telling me this kid's an SF in the NBA over on the trade board - is it just me, or is he a PF? Please validate my opinion

He might be able to play SF in spurts, but his skill-set and physical stature suite him more to the 4, especially in todays NBA, imo.

[nolang1]

I've got a bunch of people telling me this kid's an SF in the NBA over on the trade board - is it just me, or is he a PF? Please validate my opinion

He might be able to play SF in spurts, but his skill-set and physical stature suite him more to the 4, especially in todays NBA, imo.

Yeah, ranking Isaac over Ingram at this point would be contingent on you having more faith in the former's ability to put on some weight and become a good defender as a small-ball 4 or 5. Ingram's had a year in the NBA to put on some weight, and regardless of what you thought of him last June, the results this year would have to make you more open to the possibility that it won't happen.

Thought experiment: if Ingram had been held back at some point and played his freshman season at Duke this year, what kind of numbers would he have put up? 17, 6 and 2 on 41% from 3 is the baseline he'd be improving upon, and he's younger than Josh Jackson and roughly the same age as Isaac.

[Duke4life831]

I've got a bunch of people telling me this kid's an SF in the NBA over on the trade board - is it just me, or is he a PF? Please validate my opinion

He might be able to play SF in spurts, but his skill-set and physical stature suite him more to the 4, especially in todays NBA, imo.

Agreed 100%. To me he is 100% a 4. This is where him and Ingram differ. Ingram clearly had the skill set of a 3, if you watched him at Duke you saw that and if you watched him this past year for the Lakers you saw that he was a perimeter player with a perimeter skill set.

A great way to kind of see this in stats just in case you couldnt watch their games is how much of their shots were assisted on. 15% of Ingram shots at the rim and 17% for 2pt shots that werent at the rim were assisted on. Compare that to Isaac where 48% of his shots at the rim were assisted on 36% for his 2s that werent at the rim.

That basically shows that Ingram was basically creating all of his shots while Isaac wasnt. There is a big difference with their ball skill levels and thats why I think Isaac wont be playing any 3 in the NBA. Which is perfectly fine, hes going to be at his best going against NBA 4s instead of 3s.

[The-Power]

I've got a bunch of people telling me this kid's an SF in the NBA over on the trade board - is it just me, or is he a PF? Please validate my opinion

He might be able to play SF in spurts, but his skill-set and physical stature suite him more to the 4, especially in todays NBA, imo.

The community is divided on this one. I have been very vocal about him being a 4, some share this notion while there are also quite a few posters who see him (strictly) as a SF. To quote myself (lazy I know but you asked for validation and that's best achieved with an explanation ):

Spoiler:

Yes, and it's not even that close. Isaac could barely put the ball on the floor in college - no way he's anywhere near being able to do it in the NBA. Perhaps he can go around a defender who overplays him but that's about it at this point. I hope the team he goes to doesn't expect him to be a consistent shot creator in the NBA from the wing - otherwise he's doomed to fail.
[...]
Isaac was unable to create for himself off the dribble in college as the 4 because his ballhandling isn't good enough so he'll get inevitably stripped, he's not that quick for a wing and struggles to finish around the rim through contact. On defense his best asset is his versatility as an interior defender who can step out. You don't want him chasing wings at the next level. Not only isn't he best suited to do that but, more importantly, it takes away from his strengths (rebounding, help defense, picking up driving guards etc.). Offensively it should help him to play against slower defenders who will struggle to keep up with Isaac's off-ball activity and when he gets past them the interior defense is in a weaker spot which should help his finishing around the rim.

As I've stated multiple times by now: make Isaac a 3 and I doubt he's going to be a good player. As a 4, however, I see a lot of potential once he bulked up a bit (he doesn't even need to transform his body as he doesn't have to be able to win battles solely based on physicality). Hopefully the team that drafts him doesn't force him to be a wing just because he's been listed as such before entering college/the draft.

Spoiler:

I agree that the reward is great. But Isaac's floor really isn't that great. I love his defense and believe he's going to be good on that end - but only as a 4 and he's going to have to put a lot of work in adding strength in order to sustain his defense for longer stretches. His shot really isn't all that good yet. Potentially, yes. But as of now he's merely a solid shooter at the college level and it's not a given that he's going to be a respectable shooter in the NBA.

Josh Smith was much stronger around the rim. Isaac must improve around the rim in order to be a consistent scorer in the NBA - especially in terms of ballhandling (at least he should be able to put it on the floor on close-outs which and he isn't there yet) and finishing through contact. And as I wrote above, shooting where he has potential but lacks consistency and some range for the NBA line.

Also, in my eyes Isaac must be groomed for playing the 4. I don't see a wing in Isaac and I believe on both ends of the floor he must be 4 in order to play to his strengths. Defensively you want him further inside and on switches onto Guards and not as a primary perimeter defender (rebounding, contesting inside and being able to switch onto Guards in PnRs are going to be his primary strengths defensively) and offensively he's going to have an easier time dealing with slower defenders in a role in which he isn't asked to initiate offense at all but rather playing the match-ups and reacting to what defenses give him - his mobility and off-ball activity makes him a tough assignment for defenders. If the team that drafts him develops him as a wing player I have a real hard time seeing him reach his potential.

[LuessiT]

I've got a bunch of people telling me this kid's an SF in the NBA over on the trade board - is it just me, or is he a PF? Please validate my opinion

He might be able to play SF in spurts, but his skill-set and physical stature suite him more to the 4, especially in todays NBA, imo.

Definately think he's a 4 and it's not close. He's more of a 4/5 to me than a 3/4.

[Upperclass]

They are pretty similar actually. I think both will end up busts due to their mental makeup. Both are also too slow to play the wing on offense, and neither is assertive or skilled enough to makeup for it in other areas. Likely 8th man small ball pf's

[The Skyhook]

Its like some people didn't watch Ingram after the All Star break,

[Killboard]

I dont remember Ingram Stl, Blk and Reb%, bit I think Isaac projects to be a muchos better defender, a just as good as a shooter, evento if he doesnt have the passing and shot creación ability.

And while his skill in offense is muchs better suited to play the 4, in defense he would play both forward positions without suffer mobility problems. His weight could be a problem playing against post up 4 tough early in his career.

[Duke4life831]

They are pretty similar actually. I think both will end up busts due to their mental makeup. Both are also too slow to play the wing on offense, and neither is assertive or skilled enough to makeup for it in other areas. Likely 8th man small ball pf's

I had questions about Ingram's quickness as well but the 2nd half of the season, that didnt seem to be an issue at all for Ingram. Once he got used to the speed of the game he seemed to do a pretty good job of driving by guys on offense and staying in front of guys on defense. He may not be the quickest guy, but he seemed to learn to really use the combination of crazy length and ball handling ability to get around people.