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NO-KG-AI wrote:Sengun was the best basketball player of this draft class prior to the NBA and now he’s the best basketball player in the NBA from this class. Sometimes we(myself included) can just flat out overthink prospects.
Potential is so subjective.
HadAnEffectHere wrote:NO-KG-AI wrote:Sengun was the best basketball player of this draft class prior to the NBA and now he’s the best basketball player in the NBA from this class. Sometimes we(myself included) can just flat out overthink prospects.
Potential is so subjective.
I mean yes, but Zach Edey is clearly the best basketball player in the current class and is probably the best college basketball player of the last 25 years and...
Doctor MJ wrote:I don't understand why people jump in a thread and say basically, "This thing you're all talking about. I'm too ignorant to know anything about it. Lollerskates!"
NO-KG-AI wrote:HadAnEffectHere wrote:NO-KG-AI wrote:Sengun was the best basketball player of this draft class prior to the NBA and now he’s the best basketball player in the NBA from this class. Sometimes we(myself included) can just flat out overthink prospects.
Potential is so subjective.
I mean yes, but Zach Edey is clearly the best basketball player in the current class and is probably the best college basketball player of the last 25 years and...
I mean, Sengun was a teenager in a professional league. He's actually two months younger than Edey.
I see your point, and I honestly think Edey might contribute more than people think, but balling out at 18 and doing it at 21 is hugely different.
buzzkilloton wrote:Big J wrote:HadAnEffectHere wrote:
Star: Scottie Barnes
Star potential: Franz Wagner
High level role player: Evan Mobley
High level role player potential: Kuminga
Mid level role player: Jalen Suggs
Bust: Josh Giddey
Busts who could turn it around but have a greatly diminished ceiling from perceived pre-draft: Cade Cunningham, Jalen Green
What?
9-14 in that draft obviously sucked, but the top level guys have been fine and basically what you would expect?
Barnes is the only one that stands out from that group, and it was considered a massive reach for Masai to take him over Suggs. Green & Cade have both been disappointments, but none of the guys after Barnes have really set themselves apart at this point. Franz is a great role player, but his upside is pretty capped unless he's given the keys to a team.
Cade has not been a "disappointment". He had a promising rookie year then got injured his 2nd season. He started off slow returning from an injury to be expected. Hes been getting better and better as the season goes on.
Last 33 games:
23.0 points
4.3 rebounds
7.5 assists
3.1 turnovers
1.5 steals+blocks
57.6% TS%
40.2% from 3pt
Its essentially his 2nd season. Their is going to be alot of success ahead for young Cade.
NO-KG-AI wrote:Sengun was the best basketball player of this draft class prior to the NBA and now he’s the best basketball player in the NBA from this class. Sometimes we(myself included) can just flat out overthink prospects.
Potential is so subjective.
EvanZ wrote:NO-KG-AI wrote:Sengun was the best basketball player of this draft class prior to the NBA and now he’s the best basketball player in the NBA from this class. Sometimes we(myself included) can just flat out overthink prospects.
Potential is so subjective.
This is extreme hindsight bias. You wouldn't be saying this if Sengun turned out to be a bust. Was Steph Curry the best player in his draft class prior to the NBA? I don't know. That's why we have a draft. A bunch of teams obviously didn't think so. Was Giannis the best player in his draft class prior to the NBA? Well, maybe he was! Again, that's why we have drafts.
Was Luka the best player? Absolutely. Was he the first pick? Nope. That's why we have drafts.
Doctor MJ wrote:I don't understand why people jump in a thread and say basically, "This thing you're all talking about. I'm too ignorant to know anything about it. Lollerskates!"
NO-KG-AI wrote:EvanZ wrote:NO-KG-AI wrote:Sengun was the best basketball player of this draft class prior to the NBA and now he’s the best basketball player in the NBA from this class. Sometimes we(myself included) can just flat out overthink prospects.
Potential is so subjective.
This is extreme hindsight bias. You wouldn't be saying this if Sengun turned out to be a bust. Was Steph Curry the best player in his draft class prior to the NBA? I don't know. That's why we have a draft. A bunch of teams obviously didn't think so. Was Giannis the best player in his draft class prior to the NBA? Well, maybe he was! Again, that's why we have drafts.
Was Luka the best player? Absolutely. Was he the first pick? Nope. That's why we have drafts.
I think when one teenager stands out in terms of strength of competition and overall production, we can probably take it as a good indicator. Luka was another good example.
It’s not to say someone can’t fill out and surpass Sengun, but it was asinine then that he dropped that far.
Jalen Green was my #1 guy in this draft btw. But I think my point was that maybe we shouldn’t be so shocked when prodigies that are already good at basketball end up way better than the guys that have potential and mediocre production. Drafting 19 year olds that produce like Luka and Sengun but have lower perceived ceilings probably works better long term than projecting all the raw projects and hoping they develop like Giannis.
Steph is a guy I definitely missed on as well. I thought he would be a solid 6th man microwave guy, but looking back, he probably was the best non NBA guy in the world already. I think trying to project someone to be the biggest outlier of all time at the most difficult shots in basketball made a lot of people miss.
EvanZ wrote:NO-KG-AI wrote:EvanZ wrote:
This is extreme hindsight bias. You wouldn't be saying this if Sengun turned out to be a bust. Was Steph Curry the best player in his draft class prior to the NBA? I don't know. That's why we have a draft. A bunch of teams obviously didn't think so. Was Giannis the best player in his draft class prior to the NBA? Well, maybe he was! Again, that's why we have drafts.
Was Luka the best player? Absolutely. Was he the first pick? Nope. That's why we have drafts.
I think when one teenager stands out in terms of strength of competition and overall production, we can probably take it as a good indicator. Luka was another good example.
It’s not to say someone can’t fill out and surpass Sengun, but it was asinine then that he dropped that far.
Jalen Green was my #1 guy in this draft btw. But I think my point was that maybe we shouldn’t be so shocked when prodigies that are already good at basketball end up way better than the guys that have potential and mediocre production. Drafting 19 year olds that produce like Luka and Sengun but have lower perceived ceilings probably works better long term than projecting all the raw projects and hoping they develop like Giannis.
Steph is a guy I definitely missed on as well. I thought he would be a solid 6th man microwave guy, but looking back, he probably was the best non NBA guy in the world already. I think trying to project someone to be the biggest outlier of all time at the most difficult shots in basketball made a lot of people miss.
It's always easier to look back than to look ahead. Funny how people never seem to learn that lesson no matter how many times they run smack into it.
Doctor MJ wrote:I don't understand why people jump in a thread and say basically, "This thing you're all talking about. I'm too ignorant to know anything about it. Lollerskates!"
HadAnEffectHere wrote:Gotta take Josh Jackson over Lauri Markkanen, he was just a better basketball player at age 19.
Marvin Bagley Jr was amazing in college, have to take him 2nd overall.
Anthony Edwards and LaMelo sucked horribly at 19 years old, Obi Toppin time?
Doctor MJ wrote:I don't understand why people jump in a thread and say basically, "This thing you're all talking about. I'm too ignorant to know anything about it. Lollerskates!"
HadAnEffectHere wrote:Gotta take Josh Jackson over Lauri Markkanen, he was just a better basketball player at age 19.
Marvin Bagley Jr was amazing in college, have to take him 2nd overall.
Anthony Edwards and LaMelo sucked horribly at 19 years old, Obi Toppin time?
crows2 wrote:HadAnEffectHere wrote:Gotta take Josh Jackson over Lauri Markkanen, he was just a better basketball player at age 19.
Marvin Bagley Jr was amazing in college, have to take him 2nd overall.
Anthony Edwards and LaMelo sucked horribly at 19 years old, Obi Toppin time?
Markannen was a better player than Jackson. Jackson was all about “potential”.
Doctor MJ wrote:I don't understand why people jump in a thread and say basically, "This thing you're all talking about. I'm too ignorant to know anything about it. Lollerskates!"
Big J wrote:buzzkilloton wrote:Big J wrote:
.
Eh, he’s never going to be a number one guy on a great team. You expect that from a number overall pick, so in that respect he’s a disappointment.
buzzkilloton wrote:Big J wrote:buzzkilloton wrote:
Eh, he’s never going to be a number one guy on a great team. You expect that from a number overall pick, so in that respect he’s a disappointment.
The standard of a 1 pick being a disappointment isnt "if they can be a number one guy on a great team". Very very few players ever hit that pedestal. Regardless Cade is 22years old and essentially in his 2nd year missing the majority of year 2. Plenty of players have made strides from future all star potential to holy cow hes a top 10 player ITL from early in careers to a few years down the road.
A disappointing pick 1 would be if the Pistons did what you said to do and took Jalen Green pick 1 and passed on Cade Cunningham because "he had a kid in high school" and all the other random biased hate spew you put out at the time on Cade.
crows2 wrote:buzzkilloton wrote:Big J wrote:
The standard of a 1 pick being a disappointment isnt "if they can be a number one guy on a great team". Very very few players ever hit that pedestal. Regardless Cade is 22years old and essentially in his 2nd year missing the majority of year 2. Plenty of players have made strides from future all star potential to holy cow hes a top 10 player ITL from early in careers to a few years down the road.
A disappointing pick 1 would be if the Pistons did what you said to do and took Jalen Green pick 1 and passed on Cade Cunningham because "he had a kid in high school" and all the other random biased hate spew you put out at the time on Cade.
Technically there are two types of disappointments: The one you describe, in addition to a situation where pick 1 is used on a good player when a generational prospect was available. For instance, even if Ayton had panned out in Phoenix, it was always going to be a disappointing pick having passed on a can’t miss prospect like Luka. (Neither of these situations apply to Cade).
Big J wrote:Always knew this kid would be great.
eyeatoma wrote:You guys still dont' get it. Playoff accomplishment don't matter when you're up for your 1st MVP. When you're up for your 3rd in a row, damn straight it matters, as the only ones who done it are top 15 players of all time who have won rings.
QingJames wrote:Big J wrote:Always knew this kid would be great.
He isn’t great though. He’s not even good.
Other than dribble separation and explosive athleticism, can you tell me one above-average NBA skill that Jalen Green has? Don’t say scoring because even with this red hot streak he’s on, he’s shooting worse from 3 and the same from the field as he did his rookie year. His TS% is still the same awful 54% compared to a league average of 58%.
In fact, it speaks volumes about how truly awful Green is and has been as a player that even with his excellent shooting in the hot streak, he remains cumulatively one of the least efficient players in the league this season.
Big J wrote:QingJames wrote:Big J wrote:Always knew this kid would be great.
He isn’t great though. He’s not even good.
Other than dribble separation and explosive athleticism, can you tell me one above-average NBA skill that Jalen Green has? Don’t say scoring because even with this red hot streak he’s on, he’s shooting worse from 3 and the same from the field as he did his rookie year. His TS% is still the same awful 54% compared to a league average of 58%.
In fact, it speaks volumes about how truly awful Green is and has been as a player that even with his excellent shooting in the hot streak, he remains cumulatively one of the least efficient players in the league this season.
He’s averaging 28.5, 6, 4 & 1 on 50, 40, 80 shooting in March, and led his team to 10 straight wins. That’s not good?
eyeatoma wrote:You guys still dont' get it. Playoff accomplishment don't matter when you're up for your 1st MVP. When you're up for your 3rd in a row, damn straight it matters, as the only ones who done it are top 15 players of all time who have won rings.
