Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys

[JMAC3]

Ausar and Amen are the worst shooters in NBA history relative to their position and era.

You have to play them at center on offense, there's no hope here at all.

Way too much whistling past the graveyard from NBA Draft people about how incredibly hard it will be to have these guys fit on any team. How many teams need a rim running SF because they have a pure stretch 5 next to them?

Amen Thompson is shooting 51.9 efg% and Ausar is at 49.2%. Neither great, but far from being awful.

Ausar is 92% def epm, 84% among all players in rebound rate.
Amen is 85% def epm, 87% in rebound rate, 71% in assist rate.

Both are already above 50% epm as players as awful shooters as rookies. Trying to say there is no hope for them is a wild take.

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That's because their shots are dunks.

Which is fine at center and offensive suffocation at literally any other position.

They aren't playing center now and again are shooting 50% efg while playing elite defense, great rebounding and good playmaking.

I agree shooting is great, but if that is your only weakness and you are so athletic that you are still living on dunks as guards/wings then you will be fine. Both are proving to be effective with zero 3 pt shot at all, so yeah if they even get to Giannis level shooting they will be very very very good 2 way players.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Amen Thompson is shooting 51.9 efg% and Ausar is at 49.2%. Neither great, but far from being awful.

Ausar is 92% def epm, 84% among all players in rebound rate.
Amen is 85% def epm, 87% in rebound rate, 71% in assist rate.

Both are already above 50% epm as players as awful shooters as rookies. Trying to say there is no hope for them is a wild take.

...................................................................

That's because their shots are dunks.

Which is fine at center and offensive suffocation at literally any other position.

They aren't playing center now and again are shooting 50% efg while playing elite defense, great rebounding and good playmaking.

I agree shooting is great, but if that is your only weakness and you are so athletic that you are still living on dunks as guards/wings then you will be fine. Both are proving to be effective with zero 3 pt shot at all, so yeah if they even get to Giannis level shooting they will be very very very good 2 way players.

No, they are not proving to be effective. They suffocate the Houston and Detroit offenses whenever they play. All they do is cut to the basket and clog the paint.

You cannot play less than 4 out in the NBA or you just lose.

Have you watched or followed the NBA this year.

[ThatBoyNick]

No, they are not proving to be effective. They suffocate the Houston and Detroit offenses whenever they play. All they do is cut to the basket and clog the paint.

You cannot play less than 4 out in the NBA or you just lose.

Have you watched or followed the NBA this year.

There are 5's who can shoot, so even if they never figure their shots out there are lineups they can function in. At worst both of these players will have long careers as defensive studs off the bench, but if they ever want to have long term success as starters, they will need to dramatically improve their shots, or find a very good situation with a 5 that shoots like Chet or Townes.

[Mr Peanut]

I can't speak for Amen as haven't followed his stats that closely, but Ausar was shooting ~40% from 3PT on 7-8 attempts per game in the OTE playoffs (different level of competition sure, but the three point line is the same as the NBA).

His outside shooting has been terrible in the NBA so far but I think it's not just mechanics, and also confidence. If he can work on it and eventually get his numbers to at least 33% on a few attempts per game it unlocks his overall game so much more and he has all-star potential.

If he never develops an outside shot he still will be an elite defender, but likely will max out as a bench player as we will need more spacing for Cade/Ivey with Duren in the starting lineup.

[Mr Peanut]

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That's because their shots are dunks.

Which is fine at center and offensive suffocation at literally any other position.

They aren't playing center now and again are shooting 50% efg while playing elite defense, great rebounding and good playmaking.

I agree shooting is great, but if that is your only weakness and you are so athletic that you are still living on dunks as guards/wings then you will be fine. Both are proving to be effective with zero 3 pt shot at all, so yeah if they even get to Giannis level shooting they will be very very very good 2 way players.

No, they are not proving to be effective. They suffocate the Houston and Detroit offenses whenever they play. All they do is cut to the basket and clog the paint.

You cannot play less than 4 out in the NBA or you just lose.

Have you watched or followed the NBA this year.

I agree with the principles of what you're saying and the need for spacing, but it should also be noted that Ausar is one of our top players when it comes to on/off court numbers (+3.6) this year, so implying playing him is leading to losing games is not true.

[K_chile22]

If you watch Amen then thing holding him back is the handle more than the shot. He can be an amazing player without a three point shot. Special defense, passing, rebounding and burst but can't dribble at a guard level to take advantage

[Braggins]

Ive seen it claimed multiple times recently that OTE uses the NBA 3pt line, but I believe they use the FIBA line.

[HadAnEffectHere]

No, they are not proving to be effective. They suffocate the Houston and Detroit offenses whenever they play. All they do is cut to the basket and clog the paint.

You cannot play less than 4 out in the NBA or you just lose.

Have you watched or followed the NBA this year.

There are 5's who can shoot, so even if they never figure their shots out there are lineups they can function in. At worst both of these players will have long careers as defensive studs off the bench, but if they ever want to have long term success as starters, they will need to dramatically improve their shots, or find a very good situation with a 5 that shoots like Chet or Townes.

Yeah, if you replace Josh Giddey with Amen Thompson, I think Amen is fantastic for OKC. He would be a great cutter and pick-and-roll roll-man next to Chet.

It's just there aren't many Chet Holmgrens in the NBA. Maybe there will be more entering the league moving forward? But playing with Jalen Duren in Detroit is just so bad for Ausar.

[EvanZ]

If you watch Amen then thing holding him back is the handle more than the shot. He can be an amazing player without a three point shot. Special defense, passing, rebounding and burst but can't dribble at a guard level to take advantage

It always comes back to the Iguodala comp. That's the long term vision if you bought into them.

[HadAnEffectHere]

If you watch Amen then thing holding him back is the handle more than the shot. He can be an amazing player without a three point shot. Special defense, passing, rebounding and burst but can't dribble at a guard level to take advantage

It always comes back to the Iguodala comp. That's the long term vision if you bought into them.

Iguodala was a better shooter in a much worse shooting era was the issue. Worse shooting Iguodala needs someone like Porzingis or Myles Turner to survive on the court in this era.

[Hal14]

Ausar and Amen are the worst shooters in NBA history relative to their position and era.

What a ridiculous statement. They're a half season into their rookie year and just turned 21.

We would need at least 3 seasons worth of data to say something like that.

[JMAC3]

If you watch Amen then thing holding him back is the handle more than the shot. He can be an amazing player without a three point shot. Special defense, passing, rebounding and burst but can't dribble at a guard level to take advantage

It always comes back to the Iguodala comp. That's the long term vision if you bought into them.

Iguodala was a better shooter in a much worse shooting era was the issue. Worse shooting Iguodala needs someone like Porzingis or Myles Turner to survive on the court in this era.

Here is how I view their shooting.
10% chance they never improve and are sub 20% from outside.
70% they hover around 28-33% type of guys.
20% they are better than that.

Even the worst shooters in the league usually end up around 30%. Assuming they can't reach at least that level seems like a losing side.
MKG is 27% for his career, Giannis is 28.5% JVando is 29% career.

[Hal14]

No, they are not proving to be effective. They suffocate the Houston and Detroit offenses whenever they play. All they do is cut to the basket and clog the paint.

You cannot play less than 4 out in the NBA or you just lose.

Have you watched or followed the NBA this year.

There are 5's who can shoot, so even if they never figure their shots out there are lineups they can function in. At worst both of these players will have long careers as defensive studs off the bench, but if they ever want to have long term success as starters, they will need to dramatically improve their shots, or find a very good situation with a 5 that shoots like Chet or Townes.

Yeah, if you replace Josh Giddey with Amen Thompson, I think Amen is fantastic for OKC. He would be a great cutter and pick-and-roll roll-man next to Chet.

It's just there aren't many Chet Holmgrens in the NBA. Maybe there will be more entering the league moving forward? But playing with Jalen Duren in Detroit is just so bad for Ausar.

Weird post. This is Giddey's 3rd NBA season but only his 1st season playing with Chet. Giddey was just as good (if not better) during his first 2 seasons, before Chet was playing with OKC..

[EvanZ]

Ausar and Amen are the worst shooters in NBA history relative to their position and era.

What a ridiculous statement. They're a half season into their rookie year and just turned 21.

We would need at least 3 seasons worth of data to say something like that.

Except if it was Scoot. Then a 4-game sample is enough. amrite

[clyde21]

There are 5's who can shoot, so even if they never figure their shots out there are lineups they can function in. At worst both of these players will have long careers as defensive studs off the bench, but if they ever want to have long term success as starters, they will need to dramatically improve their shots, or find a very good situation with a 5 that shoots like Chet or Townes.

Yeah, if you replace Josh Giddey with Amen Thompson, I think Amen is fantastic for OKC. He would be a great cutter and pick-and-roll roll-man next to Chet.

It's just there aren't many Chet Holmgrens in the NBA. Maybe there will be more entering the league moving forward? But playing with Jalen Duren in Detroit is just so bad for Ausar.

Weird post. This is Giddey's 3rd NBA season but only his 1st season playing with Chet. Giddey was just as good (if not better) during his first 2 seasons, before Chet was playing with OKC..

20 pages about Scoot of people drawing conclusions already, coincidentally the same people that were peddling the Thompson twins.

i won't stoop to their level tho.

[HadAnEffectHere]

There are 5's who can shoot, so even if they never figure their shots out there are lineups they can function in. At worst both of these players will have long careers as defensive studs off the bench, but if they ever want to have long term success as starters, they will need to dramatically improve their shots, or find a very good situation with a 5 that shoots like Chet or Townes.

Yeah, if you replace Josh Giddey with Amen Thompson, I think Amen is fantastic for OKC. He would be a great cutter and pick-and-roll roll-man next to Chet.

It's just there aren't many Chet Holmgrens in the NBA. Maybe there will be more entering the league moving forward? But playing with Jalen Duren in Detroit is just so bad for Ausar.

Weird post. This is Giddey's 3rd NBA season but only his 1st season playing with Chet. Giddey was just as good (if not better) during his first 2 seasons, before Chet was playing with OKC..

OKC was playing five out lineups last year as well, they just involved playing a wing at center which meant their defense could never be good.

[JMAC3]

Yeah, if you replace Josh Giddey with Amen Thompson, I think Amen is fantastic for OKC. He would be a great cutter and pick-and-roll roll-man next to Chet.

It's just there aren't many Chet Holmgrens in the NBA. Maybe there will be more entering the league moving forward? But playing with Jalen Duren in Detroit is just so bad for Ausar.

Weird post. This is Giddey's 3rd NBA season but only his 1st season playing with Chet. Giddey was just as good (if not better) during his first 2 seasons, before Chet was playing with OKC..

20 pages about Scoot of people drawing conclusions already, coincidentally the same people that were peddling the Thompson twins.

i won't stoop to their level tho.

EPM Score
Scoot 9th percentile.
Miller 49th percentile
Amen 56th percentile.
Ausar 56th percentile
Whitmore 57th percentile
Wemby 93rd percentile.

But yes, all the Scoot negativity is just people picking on him.

[EvanZ]

Weird post. This is Giddey's 3rd NBA season but only his 1st season playing with Chet. Giddey was just as good (if not better) during his first 2 seasons, before Chet was playing with OKC..

20 pages about Scoot of people drawing conclusions already, coincidentally the same people that were peddling the Thompson twins.

i won't stoop to their level tho.

EPM Score
Scoot 9th percentile.
Miller 49th percentile
Amen 56th percentile.
Ausar 56th percentile
Whitmore 57th percentile
Wemby 93rd percentile.

But yes, all the Scoot negativity is just people picking on him.

It's the literal definition of picking on him yes. That's the whole point. You and BigJ don't seem to realize he's a rookie who is not a finished product. It doesn't really matter to me what his EPM or SchmeePM is right now. It matters what he is in years 3, 4, 5 and beyond. I don't know why it's so hard for you to absorb this.

[JMAC3]

20 pages about Scoot of people drawing conclusions already, coincidentally the same people that were peddling the Thompson twins.

i won't stoop to their level tho.

EPM Score
Scoot 9th percentile.
Miller 49th percentile
Amen 56th percentile.
Ausar 56th percentile
Whitmore 57th percentile
Wemby 93rd percentile.

But yes, all the Scoot negativity is just people picking on him.

It's the literal definition of picking on him yes. That's the whole point. You and BigJ don't seem to realize he's a rookie who is not a finished product. It doesn't really matter to me what his EPM or SchmeePM is right now. It matters what he is in years 3, 4, 5 and beyond. I don't know why it's so hard for you to absorb this.

Yeah, idk why we even watch the games. We might as well wait until they are in their prime before we even discuss them. Jayson Tatum good, SGA good, Jokic also good. Bamba bad, Bagley is also bad. Adam Morrison also bad. Wow this is so fun to discuss lol

I might make a Bagley thread to discuss if he is a bad player or not now, can't wait for all the great conversation now that is finally okay to talk about him.

[EvanZ]

I mean I never liked Bagley but we had to give at least a few years. He's a bust. Same for Wiseman. But take someone like Kuminga. He looked like he was headed that way, to me, anyway. But now in the middle of year 3 he's suddenly figuring everything out (mostly). It happens all the time. There's no need to rush to judgement. If you feel the need to take laps, go to the nearest YMCA.