Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn

[HadAnEffectHere]

I love all of the draft people who somehow don't follow the NBA even a little and are like "this perimeter player who can't shoot to save his life will be still be a very good player in the NBA even if he doesn't learn how to shoot"

Saw someone say this about Ron Holland last night (the No Ceilings breakdown of him) and it was like... Based on literally what examples in the modern NBA.

Ben Simmons hasn't played in three years and he was basically the last guy you could say this about. Bad shooting has become much more punished in the three years since he was a rotation player.

Please enlighten us. Who are your top 7 players in this draft?

1. Sarr
2. Holland
3. Risacher
4. Filipowski
5. Topic*
6. Dillingham
7. Cody Williams
8. Sheppard

I do not think Holland or Filipowski will be good players in the NBA unless they shoot 37% from three or better on high volume to be clear. But they have much better odds of doing this than Amen or Ausar (who have near 0 chance). Topic could move up to 1 or out of the top 8 depending on how he plays in his remaining Euroleague games, super disappointed by how he played in his first two.

Sarr is #1 just because there's a very low chance he learns how to shoot threes and if he does, he instantly becomes a star player and that's better odds than everyone else in this class (who have so little star potential).

[clyde21]

The case for Amen? He is already a top 5 defender for his position in the NBA as a rookie. He has elite size for his position, elite athlete, possesses the tools to be an elite rim pressure guard who can also play make. Tools that give him star potential.
.

so your case for Amen is just your predraft scouting report on him? Cool.

No the fact that we have 39 games of footage of him being an elite defender, arguably the best athlete in the NBA and virutally everything looking good to great outside of his shooting. He can't shoot but will probably be a triple double guy who plays all nba defense by the end of his rookie deal.

okay - so you're confirming that today you're taking Amen over Jabari and moving forward?

[JMAC3]

You just responded to me saying "Valuable player" is ambiguous when you were the one who started the convo with "value" in your initial question, and you still haven't even provided anything substantial for it

What makes Amen a more valuable asset than Jabari moving forward? im all ears.

The case for Amen? He is already a top 5 defender for his position in the NBA as a rookie. He has elite size for his position, elite athlete, possesses the tools to be an elite rim pressure guard who can also play make. Tools that give him star potential.
.

so your case for Amen is just your predraft scouting report on him? Cool.

Literally Jabari does nothing better than his predraft scouting report nearly 2 years into his career. He still can't dribble, can't pass, doesn't draw fouls. He shoots the ball less this year than he did last year, because Houston already realizes he isn't that type of player. His scoring avg isn't even going to go up a full point this year.

[JMAC3]

I love all of the draft people who somehow don't follow the NBA even a little and are like "this perimeter player who can't shoot to save his life will be still be a very good player in the NBA even if he doesn't learn how to shoot"

Saw someone say this about Ron Holland last night (the No Ceilings breakdown of him) and it was like... Based on literally what examples in the modern NBA.

Ben Simmons hasn't played in three years and he was basically the last guy you could say this about. Bad shooting has become much more punished in the three years since he was a rotation player.

Please enlighten us. Who are your top 7 players in this draft?

1. Sarr
2. Holland
3. Risacher
4. Filipowski
5. Topic*
6. Dillingham
7. Cody Williams
8. Sheppard

I do not think Holland or Filipowski will be good players in the NBA unless they shoot 37% from three or better on high volume to be clear. But they have much better odds of doing this than Amen or Ausar (who have near 0 chance). Topic could move up to 1 or out of the top 8 depending on how he plays in his remaining Euroleague games, super disappointed by how he played in his first two.

Sarr is #1 just because there's a very low chance he learns how to shoot threes and if he does, he instantly becomes a star player and that's better odds than everyone else in this class (who have so little star potential).

Haha says we shouldn't project guys to improve their shooting like Holland.... then goes on to list Holland #2, behind a guy that shoots sub 30% as his #1 guy. Your 5th prospect shoots 25.7% from 3. All are projections based on them improving shooting... which you just mocked a guy that is guaranteed to improve as a shooter....

[HadAnEffectHere]

Please enlighten us. Who are your top 7 players in this draft?

1. Sarr
2. Holland
3. Risacher
4. Filipowski
5. Topic*
6. Dillingham
7. Cody Williams
8. Sheppard

I do not think Holland or Filipowski will be good players in the NBA unless they shoot 37% from three or better on high volume to be clear. But they have much better odds of doing this than Amen or Ausar (who have near 0 chance). Topic could move up to 1 or out of the top 8 depending on how he plays in his remaining Euroleague games, super disappointed by how he played in his first two.

Sarr is #1 just because there's a very low chance he learns how to shoot threes and if he does, he instantly becomes a star player and that's better odds than everyone else in this class (who have so little star potential).

Haha says we shouldn't project guys to improve their shooting like Holland.... then goes on to list Holland #2, behind a guy that shoots sub 30% as his #1 guy. Your 5th prospect shoots 25.7% from 3. All are projections based on them improving shooting... which you just mocked a guy that is guaranteed to improve as a shooter....

??????????????

The issue with Amen and Ausar is that they've focused REALLY hard on shooting and have gotten nowhere.

They worked for 18 months with Mike Miller and improved not even a single bit. They're the two worst shooters in the NBA right now.

Holland and Topic have seemingly worked less on their shooting (Holland seemed to focus a lot on his ball handling), Topic has much better FT%s, and they're 30 months younger than the Thompson twins.

All of this matters a lot.

I also don't think Holland is a good prospect and I don't think he has much chance of being a quality player in the NBA fwiw. I think there's like a 30% chance he becomes a stronger and more athletic Royce O'Neale and becomes like an 18/6 guy with good efficiency who plays very good defense.

[JMAC3]

??????????????

The issue with Amen and Ausar is that they've focused REALLY hard on shooting and have gotten nowhere.

They worked for 18 months with Mike Miller and improved not even a single bit. They're the two worst shooters in the NBA right now.

Holland and Topic have seemingly worked less on their shooting (Holland seemed to focus a lot on his ball handling), Topic has much better FT%s, and they're 30 months younger than the Thompson twins.

All of this matters a lot.

I also don't think Holland is a good prospect and I don't think he has much chance of being a quality player in the NBA fwiw. I think there's like a 30% chance he becomes a stronger and more athletic Royce O'Neale and becomes like an 18/6 guy with good efficiency who plays very good defense.

You make no sense my guy. You don't think your #2 prospect is a very good prospect? You know you don't have to have him #2 then... but you are going to ????????? my post? huh

So if Topic shoots 23% from 3 next season in NBA sounds like his career would be over according to your rules lol and you were a fool for having him on your board?

[HadAnEffectHere]

Yes, Holland is not a very good prospect.

This is the worst draft I've ever seen in my life and that's the only reason he's #2.

He has like a 30% chance of being a good #3 on a good team and few other players in this class have any chance of being that.

And yes, if Topic is still shooting 25% from three at 21 years old, I will write him off as a future NBA player.

If you can't shoot, you're not an NBA player as a perimeter player 99% of the time.

[JMAC3]

so your case for Amen is just your predraft scouting report on him? Cool.

No the fact that we have 39 games of footage of him being an elite defender, arguably the best athlete in the NBA and virutally everything looking good to great outside of his shooting. He can't shoot but will probably be a triple double guy who plays all nba defense by the end of his rookie deal.

okay - so you're confirming that today you're taking Amen over Jabari and moving forward?

Yes, by Feb 15th 2025. 1 year from now Amen will be without a doubt a much better prospect and player than Jabari Smith.

[K_chile22]

Weird to see you dogging on Jabari's potential value bc he's not a creator but posting Amen+7th pick+a swap from OKC to BKN next year+ another pick swap for Bridges in the T&T.

Also weird to act like Jabari is what he is at 20 but Amen has run to grow immensely at 21. I agree with the latter and have him over Jabari in my young guy rankings fwiw but these views all juxtaposed just feels like you've got a personal thing with Bari. It's fine to say you're wrong despite this board being weirdly caught up on dogging people for draft misses. I thought Bari was a bust last year and I was wrong, he's made a very big leap that doesn't pop on the stat sheet

[JMAC3]

Weird to see you dogging on Jabari's potential value bc he's not a creator but posting Amen+7th pick+a swap from OKC to BKN next year+ another pick swap for Bridges in the T&T.

Also weird to act like Jabari is what he is at 20 but Amen has run to grow immensely at 21. I agree with the latter and have him over Jabari in my young guy rankings fwiw but these views all juxtaposed just feels like you've got a personal thing with Bari. It's fine to say you're wrong despite this board being weirdly caught up on dogging people for draft misses. I thought Bari was a bust last year and I was wrong, he's made a very big leap that doesn't pop on the stat sheet

Huh? The two have very little do with one another. I can be high on Amen and still think it is in Houston best interest to make a trade. I feel pretty confident Jabari is never going to be as good as Mikal Bridges for example.

Jabari is very limited hence why I am down on him. Players that fit his mold are high floor, low ceiling guys. You know who else was very similar to young Jabari? John Collins. Taylor Hendricks looks similar, I don't think I am a hater for thinking he never turns into a star PF.

[K_chile22]

Weird to see you dogging on Jabari's potential value bc he's not a creator but posting Amen+7th pick+a swap from OKC to BKN next year+ another pick swap for Bridges in the T&T.

Also weird to act like Jabari is what he is at 20 but Amen has run to grow immensely at 21. I agree with the latter and have him over Jabari in my young guy rankings fwiw but these views all juxtaposed just feels like you've got a personal thing with Bari. It's fine to say you're wrong despite this board being weirdly caught up on dogging people for draft misses. I thought Bari was a bust last year and I was wrong, he's made a very big leap that doesn't pop on the stat sheet

Huh? The two have very little do with one another. I can be high on Amen and still think it is in Houston best interest to make a trade. I feel pretty confident Jabari is never going to be as good as Mikal Bridges for example.

Jabari is very limited hence why I am down on him. Players that fit his mold are high floor, low ceiling guys. You know who else was very similar to young Jabari? John Collins. Taylor Hendricks looks similar, I don't think I am a hater for thinking he never turns into a star PF.

What about Bridges is unobtainable for Jabari? He's a better ball handler than Bari will likely end up being but not a particularly good one and Jabari is 6'10 instead of 6'7 so it's easier for him to just shoot over people without needing as many dribbles. Keep in mind Bridges came into the leage 3 years older than Jabari did

[JMAC3]

Weird to see you dogging on Jabari's potential value bc he's not a creator but posting Amen+7th pick+a swap from OKC to BKN next year+ another pick swap for Bridges in the T&T.

Also weird to act like Jabari is what he is at 20 but Amen has run to grow immensely at 21. I agree with the latter and have him over Jabari in my young guy rankings fwiw but these views all juxtaposed just feels like you've got a personal thing with Bari. It's fine to say you're wrong despite this board being weirdly caught up on dogging people for draft misses. I thought Bari was a bust last year and I was wrong, he's made a very big leap that doesn't pop on the stat sheet

Huh? The two have very little do with one another. I can be high on Amen and still think it is in Houston best interest to make a trade. I feel pretty confident Jabari is never going to be as good as Mikal Bridges for example.

Jabari is very limited hence why I am down on him. Players that fit his mold are high floor, low ceiling guys. You know who else was very similar to young Jabari? John Collins. Taylor Hendricks looks similar, I don't think I am a hater for thinking he never turns into a star PF.

What about Bridges is unobtainable for Jabari? He's a better ball handler than Bari will likely end up being but not a particularly good one and Jabari is 6'10 instead of 6'7 so it's easier for him to just shoot over people without needing as many dribbles. Keep in mind Bridges came into the leage 3 years older than Jabari did

Does Jabari average more than 16 ppg next season? Yes or no?

[clyde21]

No the fact that we have 39 games of footage of him being an elite defender, arguably the best athlete in the NBA and virutally everything looking good to great outside of his shooting. He can't shoot but will probably be a triple double guy who plays all nba defense by the end of his rookie deal.

okay - so you're confirming that today you're taking Amen over Jabari and moving forward?

Yes, by Feb 15th 2025. 1 year from now Amen will be without a doubt a much better prospect and player than Jabari Smith.

that's fine, but I know it's not based off anything on the ground just your predraft analysis of Amen.

[K_chile22]

Huh? The two have very little do with one another. I can be high on Amen and still think it is in Houston best interest to make a trade. I feel pretty confident Jabari is never going to be as good as Mikal Bridges for example.

Jabari is very limited hence why I am down on him. Players that fit his mold are high floor, low ceiling guys. You know who else was very similar to young Jabari? John Collins. Taylor Hendricks looks similar, I don't think I am a hater for thinking he never turns into a star PF.

What about Bridges is unobtainable for Jabari? He's a better ball handler than Bari will likely end up being but not a particularly good one and Jabari is 6'10 instead of 6'7 so it's easier for him to just shoot over people without needing as many dribbles. Keep in mind Bridges came into the leage 3 years older than Jabari did

Does Jabari average more than 16 ppg next season? Yes or no?

Maybe, but Bridges didn't do that until he was 26 not 21 lol Bridges put up a mean 8 ppg in 29 minutes a night when he was as old as Jabari will be in the season AFTER next season, 2025-26

[JMAC3]

What about Bridges is unobtainable for Jabari? He's a better ball handler than Bari will likely end up being but not a particularly good one and Jabari is 6'10 instead of 6'7 so it's easier for him to just shoot over people without needing as many dribbles. Keep in mind Bridges came into the leage 3 years older than Jabari did

Does Jabari average more than 16 ppg next season? Yes or no?

Maybe, but Bridges didn't do that until he was 26 not 21 lol Bridges put up a mean 8 ppg in 29 minutes a night when he was as old as Jabari will be in the season AFTER next season, 2025-26

You just called Lauri a 5th-7th man in the other thread at time of Mitchell trade. He was a better player then Jabari has shown. yet you are over here arguing Jabari is so valuable.

[JMAC3]

okay - so you're confirming that today you're taking Amen over Jabari and moving forward?

Yes, by Feb 15th 2025. 1 year from now Amen will be without a doubt a much better prospect and player than Jabari Smith.

that's fine, but I know it's not based off anything on the ground just your predraft analysis of Amen.

Huh? Amen is already an elite defender, do you just want to ignore that completely?
Jabari was awful last year and he is okay this year, you keep wishing for that year 3 10 point jump.

[K_chile22]

Does Jabari average more than 16 ppg next season? Yes or no?

Maybe, but Bridges didn't do that until he was 26 not 21 lol Bridges put up a mean 8 ppg in 29 minutes a night when he was as old as Jabari will be in the season AFTER next season, 2025-26

You just called Lauri a 5th-7th man in the other thread at time of Mitchell trade. He was a better player then Jabari has shown. yet you are over here arguing Jabari is so valuable.

he was 24, not 20, scoring 1 more PPG playing with all stars on a slightly better TS and waaaay worse defense and rebounding. The thing is you keep comparing Jabari right now to guys way further down the devlopment curve and saying Jabari is what he is while ignoring none of those players were as good as Jabari when they were 20 years old. idk why I'm still bothering with this

[clyde21]

Yes, by Feb 15th 2025. 1 year from now Amen will be without a doubt a much better prospect and player than Jabari Smith.

that's fine, but I know it's not based off anything on the ground just your predraft analysis of Amen.

Huh? Amen is already an elite defender, do you just want to ignore that completely?
Jabari was awful last year and he is okay this year, you keep wishing for that year 3 10 point jump.

yes

[JMAC3]

Maybe, but Bridges didn't do that until he was 26 not 21 lol Bridges put up a mean 8 ppg in 29 minutes a night when he was as old as Jabari will be in the season AFTER next season, 2025-26

You just called Lauri a 5th-7th man in the other thread at time of Mitchell trade. He was a better player then Jabari has shown. yet you are over here arguing Jabari is so valuable.

he was 24, not 20, scoring 1 more PPG playing with all stars on a slightly better TS and waaaay worse defense and rebounding. The thing is you keep comparing Jabari right now to guys way further down the devlopment curve and saying Jabari is what he is while ignoring none of those players were as good as Jabari when they were 20 years old. idk why I'm still bothering with this

Lauri at age 20 was scoring 15.2 ppg, his 2nd season he averaged 18.7 ppg.

Compared to Jabari 12.8 and 13.5 his first two years.
You don't even feel confident Jabari will score 16 ppg in year 3.

So yes Markkanen was the better player 2 years into his career by a good margin.

[JMAC3]

that's fine, but I know it's not based off anything on the ground just your predraft analysis of Amen.

Huh? Amen is already an elite defender, do you just want to ignore that completely?
Jabari was awful last year and he is okay this year, you keep wishing for that year 3 10 point jump.

yes

Right, so you are the one who is ignoring what he is doing this year and basing it on your predraft scouting, not me.