Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn

[Braggins]

fwiw Jabari is three months younger than Amen

[clyde21]

I still like his potential as a defender and shooter, and the fit with Sengun. The backpedaling is kind of hilarious though lol.

who's backpedaling?

You went from being uber condescending to everyone that even suggested he might have problems creating at the NBA level to “why the **** does he need to be a creator??”

Never backtracked on his playmaking, complete non-issue...was arguing against the idea that he needs to be a valuable player.

[JMAC3]

who's backpedaling?

You went from being uber condescending to everyone that even suggested he might have problems creating at the NBA level to “why the **** does he need to be a creator??”

Never backtracked on his playmaking, complete non-issue...was arguing against the idea that he needs to be a valuable player.

Valuable player is so ambiguous.. but yes he is not a bust and will be in the NBA for a decade.

[clyde21]

You went from being uber condescending to everyone that even suggested he might have problems creating at the NBA level to “why the **** does he need to be a creator??”

Never backtracked on his playmaking, complete non-issue...was arguing against the idea that he needs to be a valuable player.

Valuable player is so ambiguous.. but yes he is not a bust and will be in the NBA for a decade.

Lol...this entire convo was started BY YOU asking of he's the "5th most valuable prospect" on his team.

Try and keep up dog

[JMAC3]

Never backtracked on his playmaking, complete non-issue...was arguing against the idea that he needs to be a valuable player.

Valuable player is so ambiguous.. but yes he is not a bust and will be in the NBA for a decade.

Lol...this entire convo was started BY YOU asking of he's the "5th most valuable prospect" on his team.

Try and keep up dog

What have I said that doesn't align with that? Yes I think Jabari is a very average NBA player.

What is funny is that 2 months ago people were still arguing he is better than Paolo.

[FrightCoward]

Valuable player is so ambiguous.. but yes he is not a bust and will be in the NBA for a decade.

Lol...this entire convo was started BY YOU asking of he's the "5th most valuable prospect" on his team.

Try and keep up dog

What have I said that doesn't align with that? Yes I think Jabari is a very average NBA player.

What is funny is that 2 months ago people were still arguing he is better than Paolo.

Lol, they still do because “the analytics.” The only game Paolo didn’t play in this year the Magic got blown out by the Trae-less Hawks because they had no one the opposing defense respected or could create for their teammates like Paolo does. Jabari is a fine player, but he’s never going to be a star. Good number 3 or 4 on a contender.

[clyde21]

Valuable player is so ambiguous.. but yes he is not a bust and will be in the NBA for a decade.

Lol...this entire convo was started BY YOU asking of he's the "5th most valuable prospect" on his team.

Try and keep up dog

What have I said that doesn't align with that? Yes I think Jabari is a very average NBA player.

What is funny is that 2 months ago people were still arguing he is better than Paolo.

You just responded to me saying "Valuable player" is ambiguous when you were the one who started the convo with "value" in your initial question, and you still haven't even provided anything substantial for it

What makes Amen a more valuable asset than Jabari moving forward? im all ears.

[K_chile22]

Rockets are a top 6 defense with Bari and Sengun both 21 or younger as their front court what are some of these takes I'm seeing here about them not coexisting? They're losing because they have FVV (solid but way overtasked), two green rookies and Jalen Green who's a two way liability as their back court

[JMAC3]

Rockets are a top 6 defense with Bari and Sengun both 21 or younger as their front court what are some of these takes I'm seeing here about them not coexisting? They're losing because they have FVV (solid but way overtasked), two green rookies and Jalen Green who's a two way liability as their back court

Rockets are 8th in def rating, but I would hardly say Sengun or Jabari are the ones who are creating it. Their 6th and 8th best defender out of their top 11 guys by Def EPM https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

Tari Eason 96%
Amen Thompson 92%
Dillon Brooks 87%
Jasean Tate 86%
FVV 84%
Sengun 73%
Aaron Holiday 70%
Jabari Smith 68%
Jeff Green 55%
Cam Whitmore 35%
Jalen Green25%

[K_chile22]

Rockets are a top 6 defense with Bari and Sengun both 21 or younger as their front court what are some of these takes I'm seeing here about them not coexisting? They're losing because they have FVV (solid but way overtasked), two green rookies and Jalen Green who's a two way liability as their back court

Rockets are 8th in def rating, but I would hardly say Sengun or Jabari are the ones who are creating it. Their 6th and 8th best defender out of their top 11 guys by Def EPM https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

Tari Eason 96%
Amen Thompson 92%
Dillon Brooks 87%
Jasean Tate 86%
FVV 84%
Sengun 73%
Aaron Holiday 70%
Jabari Smith 68%
Jeff Green 55%
Cam Whitmore 35%
Jalen Green25%

6th by CTG which cuts garbage time and uses tracking possesions instead of estimates. Tari has barely played this year due to injury, Amen only recently got real run. Regardless, I never said they were, the point is they can be a really good defense with that as your frontcourt. People are saying you need to trade one of them to have a good defense when they already have a good defense while these dudes are both under 22, and as I'm sure you know, bigs usually get better at defense than they are at 22. Factor in experience, actually getting Tari minutes next year, having a backup center and Amen having a more consistent role (and Jalen shipped off somewhere) they'll probably continue to get better as a team on that end

[Chuck Everett]

Eason has missed 36 games. Amen has missed 19. Those guys help defensively when they're in the lineup no doubt but when you miss that many and the team remains where they are defensively you can't attribute the defensive success to those guys. Sengun and Jabari don't really have backups either. Jeff Green was meant to only play spot minutes this year. Things are gonna change next season with Eason back and Steven Adams healthy.

[JMAC3]

You just responded to me saying "Valuable player" is ambiguous when you were the one who started the convo with "value" in your initial question, and you still haven't even provided anything substantial for it

What makes Amen a more valuable asset than Jabari moving forward? im all ears.

Yes I asked those to rank who is most valuable. My comment about your valuable player being ambiguous is that technically Jeff Green could be said to be a "valuable player" right now. So yes, Jabari can have value in the eye of the beholder, without really being very valuable compared to other players around the league.

Which is the case with Paolo vs Jabari, some are making the argument they find more VALUE in a guy that can star in the 5th starter role on a team 8 games under .500 then a 21 yr old allstar who is leading his team to 7 games over .500 record. So clearly the term Value can mean very different things to different people.

The case for Amen? He is already a top 5 defender for his position in the NBA as a rookie. He has elite size for his position, elite athlete, possesses the tools to be an elite rim pressure guard who can also play make. Tools that give him star potential.

Whereas Jabari mold is closer to Harrison Barnes, Cam Johnson, Jaden McDaniels, Santi Aldama pf type. The stars at his position are guys that create own shots, shots for others like Pascal, Barnes, Giannis, LeBron, Zion, Randle, Paolo...

If Jabari adds offense it feels like he ends more in the mid-tier of Kuzma, Grant, Tobias Harris type.

So yeah I think Jabari can be a solid starter, but I would feel pretty confident saying he is never a multi-time allstar. Far more likely in my opinion that Whitmore or Amen could be allstar type guys at their positions.

[JMAC3]

Rockets are a top 6 defense with Bari and Sengun both 21 or younger as their front court what are some of these takes I'm seeing here about them not coexisting? They're losing because they have FVV (solid but way overtasked), two green rookies and Jalen Green who's a two way liability as their back court

Rockets are 8th in def rating, but I would hardly say Sengun or Jabari are the ones who are creating it. Their 6th and 8th best defender out of their top 11 guys by Def EPM https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

Tari Eason 96%
Amen Thompson 92%
Dillon Brooks 87%
Jasean Tate 86%
FVV 84%
Sengun 73%
Aaron Holiday 70%
Jabari Smith 68%
Jeff Green 55%
Cam Whitmore 35%
Jalen Green25%

6th by CTG which cuts garbage time and uses tracking possesions instead of estimates. Tari has barely played this year due to injury, Amen only recently got real run. Regardless, I never said they were, the point is they can be a really good defense with that as your frontcourt. People are saying you need to trade one of them to have a good defense when they already have a good defense while these dudes are both under 22, and as I'm sure you know, bigs usually get better at defense than they are at 22. Factor in experience, actually getting Tari minutes next year, having a backup center and Amen having a more consistent role (and Jalen shipped off somewhere) they'll probably continue to get better as a team on that end

I agree Sengun and Jabari are fine together if you are going to put elite defenders around them, which seems like the plan. That doesn't really mean I value Jabari because he can support a good defense. He is above average on defense which is a good thing, but it's pretty obvious the jump on that end by Rockets this year is sparked by Ime and the new guys like Brooks, FVV, Holiday, Amen and less to do with Sengun and Jabari all of sudden turning it on.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Amen has no star potential unless he ends up in a Draymond with Curry and Klay tier situation.

He's a SF shooting 14.9% from three and 63.1% from the line. Those guys have no value unless they're playing with guys like Chet Holmgren and Lauri Markkanen.

He's much more likely to never be a playoff rotation player than he is to be a star.

[JMAC3]

Amen has no star potential unless he ends up in a Draymond with Curry and Klay tier situation.

He's a SF shooting 14.9% from three and 63.1% from the line. Those guys have no value unless they're playing with guys like Chet Holmgren and Lauri Markkanen.

He's much more likely to never be a playoff rotation player than he is to be a star.

He shoots 45% of his total attempts inside of 3 ft. and on those shots inside of 3 ft he shoots 70%. Do you realize how elite those numbers are for a guard?

The law of averages says he is likely to be more like a 30% 3pt shooter even if he is a bad shooter. You keep living in this world where he won't ever improve his shooting at all. It would be the same if it were the opposite end of the spectrum, If there was a prospect who sucked at everything but shot 70% from 3 for half a year, I would assume law of averages takes over and he probably settles around 40% at best. Trying to project a guy to live in the 1 percentile of shooting on either side is probably a bad system.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Amen has no star potential unless he ends up in a Draymond with Curry and Klay tier situation.

He's a SF shooting 14.9% from three and 63.1% from the line. Those guys have no value unless they're playing with guys like Chet Holmgren and Lauri Markkanen.

He's much more likely to never be a playoff rotation player than he is to be a star.

He shoots 45% of his total attempts inside of 3 ft. and on those shots inside of 3 ft he shoots 70%. Do you realize how elite those numbers are for a guard?

The law of averages says he is likely to be more like a 30% 3pt shooter even if he is a bad shooter. You keep living in this world where he won't ever improve his shooting at all. It would be the same if it were the opposite end of the spectrum, If there was a prospect who sucked at everything but shot 70% from 3 for half a year, I would assume law of averages takes over and he probably settles around 40% at best. Trying to project a guy to live in the 1 percentile of shooting on either side is probably a bad system.

If Amen is a 28% three point shooter in his prime, he's just not an NBA playoff rotation player at all unless he has a perfect fit and he's so old and has worked so much on his shot and is so historically bad at shooting that he'll probably never get past there. He entered his rookie season as one of the worst shooting prospects ever drafted in the lottery (relative to position and era) and has followed that up by shooting 15% from three despite never being guarded. It's not like we have literally any positive history to use as a counter example.

He shoots 45% of his shots inside of 3 feet because all of his shots are from transition, offensive rebounding, pick-and-roll stuff as the roll man, and cuts to the basket... Outside of transition, none of this is sustainable at all for a guard unless they're playing with Chet Holmgren at center or someone like Chet.

You do not want your "guards" (he's a small forward) to be so paint dependent, that's extremely bad.

[clyde21]

You just responded to me saying "Valuable player" is ambiguous when you were the one who started the convo with "value" in your initial question, and you still haven't even provided anything substantial for it

What makes Amen a more valuable asset than Jabari moving forward? im all ears.

The case for Amen? He is already a top 5 defender for his position in the NBA as a rookie. He has elite size for his position, elite athlete, possesses the tools to be an elite rim pressure guard who can also play make. Tools that give him star potential.
.

so your case for Amen is just your predraft scouting report on him? Cool.

[HadAnEffectHere]

I love all of the draft people who somehow don't follow the NBA even a little and are like "this perimeter player who can't shoot to save his life will be still be a very good player in the NBA even if he doesn't learn how to shoot"

Saw someone say this about Ron Holland last night (the No Ceilings breakdown of him) and it was like... Based on literally what examples in the modern NBA.

Ben Simmons hasn't played in three years and he was basically the last guy you could say this about. Bad shooting has become much more punished in the three years since he was a rotation player.

[JMAC3]

You just responded to me saying "Valuable player" is ambiguous when you were the one who started the convo with "value" in your initial question, and you still haven't even provided anything substantial for it

What makes Amen a more valuable asset than Jabari moving forward? im all ears.

The case for Amen? He is already a top 5 defender for his position in the NBA as a rookie. He has elite size for his position, elite athlete, possesses the tools to be an elite rim pressure guard who can also play make. Tools that give him star potential.
.

so your case for Amen is just your predraft scouting report on him? Cool.

No the fact that we have 39 games of footage of him being an elite defender, arguably the best athlete in the NBA and virutally everything looking good to great outside of his shooting. He can't shoot but will probably be a triple double guy who plays all nba defense by the end of his rookie deal.

[JMAC3]

I love all of the draft people who somehow don't follow the NBA even a little and are like "this perimeter player who can't shoot to save his life will be still be a very good player in the NBA even if he doesn't learn how to shoot"

Saw someone say this about Ron Holland last night (the No Ceilings breakdown of him) and it was like... Based on literally what examples in the modern NBA.

Ben Simmons hasn't played in three years and he was basically the last guy you could say this about. Bad shooting has become much more punished in the three years since he was a rotation player.

Please enlighten us. Who are your top 7 players in this draft?