Zach Edey, 7-4

[FrodoBaggins]

Post ups- he will lead the league in post ups. 9-9.5 a game per36. Obviously, mpg will decide if he numerically leads the league. That just depends where he lands. On average, I am expecting 4-4.5 post-ups playing 18-20mpg as a rookie.

As long as he goes to a drop coverage leaning team, he will be a NBA ready backup right now for most teams. As long as he fits defensively.

Where he goes is everything. He could go to a team like Memphis and he's never more than a 20mpg player. Just depends where he goes. Some teams are A-okay with you playing a situational role

This is why your logic is flawed. The two best centers in the league are only getting 6 post ups per game, but you think a Rookie is going to get 50% more than the back to back MVPs?

Studs like Giannis, Wemby, Sengun, Zion aren't even averaging more than 1 PPP on post touches which is why nobody in the NBA does it.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/playtype-post-up?dir=D&sort=POSS

There we have it only Embiid, Zingis, Siakam are scoring at above league average offensive efficiency among players with >2 post ups per game. The mean offensive efficiency is 1.147 today.

The average half-court play is worth 0.989 ppp. You don't compare post-up possessions to overall offensive efficiency because it includes transition and putbacks from offensive rebounds.

Numbers need context. Use Cleaning The Glass:

https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/league/context#tab-offense_halfcourt_putbacks
https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/league/context#tab-offense_transition

[JMAC3]

This is why your logic is flawed. The two best centers in the league are only getting 6 post ups per game, but you think a Rookie is going to get 50% more than the back to back MVPs?

Studs like Giannis, Wemby, Sengun, Zion aren't even averaging more than 1 PPP on post touches which is why nobody in the NBA does it.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/playtype-post-up?dir=D&sort=POSS

There we have it only Embiid, Zingis, Siakam are scoring at above league average offensive efficiency among players with >2 post ups per game. The mean offensive efficiency is 1.147 today.

The average half-court play is worth 0.989 ppp. You don't compare post-up possessions to overall offensive efficiency because it includes transition and putbacks from offensive rebounds.

Numbers need context. Use Cleaning The Glass:

https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/league/context#tab-offense_halfcourt_putbacks
https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/league/context#tab-offense_transition

The BEST Scoring Center in the NBA posts up 5-6 times per game. That is the point, you are basically saying Edey is worth more post possessions then the MVP if you think that is how Edey is utilized.

[FrodoBaggins]

There we have it only Embiid, Zingis, Siakam are scoring at above league average offensive efficiency among players with >2 post ups per game. The mean offensive efficiency is 1.147 today.

The average half-court play is worth 0.989 ppp. You don't compare post-up possessions to overall offensive efficiency because it includes transition and putbacks from offensive rebounds.

Numbers need context. Use Cleaning The Glass:

https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/league/context#tab-offense_halfcourt_putbacks
https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/league/context#tab-offense_transition

The BEST Scoring Center in the NBA posts up 5-6 times per game. That is the point, you are basically saying Edey is worth more post possessions then the MVP if you think that is how Edey is utilized.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I just chimed in because your logic of comparing post-up PPP to overall PPP is dumb because it includes transition and putbacks from offensive rebounds.

Do you understand? Please confirm.

[GoBobs]

It actually does make sense, because he has similar mobility to Edey now.

No actually, if you go look at the NBA combine athletic testing Edey has better mobility now than Cousins did the year he was drafted.

Combine athletic numbers are meaningless. There is a difference between combine athleticism and functional athleticism. Anyone with eyes can see that Edey isn't on the level of pre injury Cousins athletically.

At least I gave you some facts. You just keep spouting off the same opinion and saying you are right because everyone knows you are right.

Maybe you are, maybe not. We will get a chance to see what happens.

[JMAC3]

The average half-court play is worth 0.989 ppp. You don't compare post-up possessions to overall offensive efficiency because it includes transition and putbacks from offensive rebounds.

Numbers need context. Use Cleaning The Glass:

https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/league/context#tab-offense_halfcourt_putbacks
https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/league/context#tab-offense_transition

The BEST Scoring Center in the NBA posts up 5-6 times per game. That is the point, you are basically saying Edey is worth more post possessions then the MVP if you think that is how Edey is utilized.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I just chimed in because your logic of comparing post-up PPP to overall PPP is dumb because it includes transition and putbacks from offensive rebounds.

Do you understand? Please confirm.

You are implying that we are undervaluing posts ups. My point is if they were more valuable teams would use them more, which they aren't. It is not like teams don't post up because they lack Edey, just by the numbers it is a bad play for nearly every player in the league.

[FrodoBaggins]

The BEST Scoring Center in the NBA posts up 5-6 times per game. That is the point, you are basically saying Edey is worth more post possessions then the MVP if you think that is how Edey is utilized.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I just chimed in because your logic of comparing post-up PPP to overall PPP is dumb because it includes transition and putbacks from offensive rebounds.

Do you understand? Please confirm.

You are implying that we are undervaluing posts ups. My point is if they were more valuable teams would use them more, which they aren't. It is not like teams don't post up because they lack Edey, just by the numbers it is a bad play for nearly every player in the league.

Don't compare post-up PPP to overall offensive efficiency. That's the lesson.

[JMAC3]

I have no idea what you're talking about. I just chimed in because your logic of comparing post-up PPP to overall PPP is dumb because it includes transition and putbacks from offensive rebounds.

Do you understand? Please confirm.

You are implying that we are undervaluing posts ups. My point is if they were more valuable teams would use them more, which they aren't. It is not like teams don't post up because they lack Edey, just by the numbers it is a bad play for nearly every player in the league.

Don't compare post-up PPP to overall offensive efficiency. That's the lesson.

So yes or no? You think it will be good offensive efficiency to draft Edey in the lottery and give him 9 post ups per game?

[FrodoBaggins]

Zubac+ is an interesting comparison. Purdue unfortunately lacks a good dribble penetration threat so Zach hasn't been able to show his full potential in the PnR.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=NBAEurope

[Big J]

Zubac+ is an interesting comparison. Purdue unfortunately lacks a good dribble penetration threat so Zach hasn't been able to show his full potential in the PnR.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=NBAEurope

Zubac is way more mobile, and even he gets played off the court in the playoffs.

[pcbothwel]

Zubac+ is an interesting comparison. Purdue unfortunately lacks a good dribble penetration threat so Zach hasn't been able to show his full potential in the PnR.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=NBAEurope

Zubac is way more mobile, and even he gets played off the court in the playoffs.

I mean, Edey is 4 inches taller with a 6-inch longer wingspan, so I'm sure he is a bit slower.
I'm sure Kyle Kuzma and John Collins are more mobile than Embiid... but Embiid can cover more ground due to his size and length.
***Embiid is 4 inches taller and 6 inches longer than Kuz/Collins, hence the comp.

[Big J]

Don't really get why there are so many Edey guys here. Is it the Canadian thing or what?

[FrodoBaggins]

Did we watch the same video? Zubac looks slower than Edey to me. And no matter how many times I or others post the NBA combine times, you're just going to ignore it. This is clearly a personal issue for you regarding Edey. I don't know what your problem is.

[Big J]

Did we watch the same video? Zubac looks slower than Edey to me. And no matter how many times I or others post the NBA combine times, you're just going to ignore it. This is clearly a personal issue for you regarding Edey. I don't know what your problem is.

If he’s so awesome then why did he have to go back to college for his senior year? Shouldn’t he be in the league already?

[FrodoBaggins]

Zach projects as a monster screener, roll-man, offensive rebounder, and finisher in the paint. These are the aspects of his offense that you should be focusing on; these are the things he'll do at the NBA. The posting up to abuse deep seals and mismatches from cross matches and switches is just icing on the cake. Either way, he'll draw a lot of fouls and create substantial rim and foul pressure.

ROLLS:







FINISHES:

[Big J]

Zach projects as a monster screener, roll-man, offensive rebounder, and finisher in the paint. These are the aspects of his offense that you should be focusing on; these are the things he'll do at the NBA. The posting up to abuse deep seals and mismatches from cross matches and switches is just icing on the cake. Either way, he'll draw a lot of fouls and create substantial rim and foul pressure.

ROLLS:







FINISHES:

So, kinda like an unathletic version of James Wiseman?

[FrodoBaggins]

Zach Edey's offensive role in the NBA will fit the archetype of the "roll and cut" big, which is also known as the "rim-runner." Here is a breakdown of centers that play this role. Zach is most similar to Rudy and Zubac.

Ivica Zubac 2023-24:

PnR roll man: 2.5 possessions per game; 1.24 ppp; 3.1 points per game
putbacks: 1.8 possessions per game; 1.05 ppp; 1.9 points per game
cut: 2.6 possessions per game; 1.40 ppp; 3.7 points per game
post-up: 1.1 possessions per game; 1.29 ppp; 1.4 points per game
transition: 0.9 possessions per game; 1.05 ppp; 1.0 points per game

Total: 8.9 possessions per game; 11.1 points per game (1.247 ppp)

Rudy Gobert 2023-24:

PnR roll man: 2.5 possessions per game; 1.24 ppp; 3.1 points per game
putbacks: 2.6 possessions per game; 1.33 ppp; 3.4 points per game
cut: 3.1 possessions per game; 1.22 ppp; 3.8 points per game
post-up: 1.2 possessions per game; 1.12 ppp; 1.4 points per game
transition: 0.8 possessions per game; 1.36 ppp; 1.1 points per game

Total: 10.2 possessions per game; 12.8 points per game (1.255 ppp)

Clint Capela 2023-24:

PnR roll man: 2.1 possessions per game; 1.15 ppp; 2.4 points per game
putbacks: 3.5 possessions per game; 0.99 ppp; 3.4 points per game
cut: 2.7 possessions per game; 1.24 ppp; 3.3 points per game
post-up: 0.6 possessions per game; 1.00 ppp; 0.6 points per game
transition: N/A

Total: 8.9 possessions per game; 9.7 points per game (1.089 ppp)

Jarrett Allen 2023-24:

PnR roll man: 3.4 possessions per game; 1.25 ppp; 4.3 points per game
putbacks: 1.9 possessions per game; 1.19 ppp; 2.3 points per game
cut: 4.7 possessions per game; 1.31 ppp; 6.1 points per game
post-up: 0.6 possessions per game; 0.95 ppp; 0.6 points per game
transition: 1.3 possessions per game; 1.31 ppp; 1.6 points per game

Total: 11.9 possessions per game; 14.9 points per game (1.252 ppp)

Jakob Poeltl 2023-24:

PnR roll man: 2.2 possessions per game; 1.29 ppp; 2.9 points per game
putbacks: 1.5 possessions per game; 1.26 ppp; 1.9 points per game
cut: 3.1 possessions per game; 1.20 ppp; 3.7 points per game
post-up: 0.8 possessions per game; 0.90 ppp; 0.7 points per game
transition: 1.0 possession per game; 1.44 ppp; 1.5 points per game

Total: 8.6 possessions per game; 9.3 points per game (1.081 ppp)

Jalen Duren 2023-24:

PnR roll man: 2.7 possessions per game; 1.34 ppp; 3.6 points per game
putbacks: 2.0 possessions per game; 1.27 ppp; 2.6 points per game
cut: 2.5 possessions per game; 1.31 ppp; 3.3 points per game
post-up: 0.8 possessions per game; 0.76 ppp; 0.6 points per game
transition: 1.6 possessions per game; 1.21 ppp; 2.0 points per game

Total: 9.6 possessions per game; 12.1 points per game (1.260 ppp)

[Big J]

Zach Edey's offensive role in the NBA will fit the archetype of the "roll and cut" big, which is also known as the "rim-runner." Here is a breakdown of centers that play this role. Zach is most similar to Rudy and Zubac.

Ivica Zubac 2023-24:

PnR roll man: 2.5 possessions per game; 1.24 ppp; 3.1 points per game
putbacks: 1.8 possessions per game; 1.05 ppp; 1.9 points per game
cut: 2.6 possessions per game; 1.40 ppp; 3.7 points per game
post-up: 1.1 possessions per game; 1.29 ppp; 1.4 points per game
transition: 0.9 possessions per game; 1.05 ppp; 1.0 points per game

Total: 8.9 possessions per game; 11.1 points per game (1.247 ppp)

Rudy Gobert 2023-24:

PnR roll man: 2.5 possessions per game; 1.24 ppp; 3.1 points per game
putbacks: 2.6 possessions per game; 1.33 ppp; 3.4 points per game
cut: 3.1 possessions per game; 1.22 ppp; 3.8 points per game
post-up: 1.2 possessions per game; 1.12 ppp; 1.4 points per game
transition: 0.8 possessions per game; 1.36 ppp; 1.1 points per game

Total: 10.2 possessions per game; 12.8 points per game (1.255 ppp)

Clint Capela 2023-24:

PnR roll man: 2.1 possessions per game; 1.15 ppp; 2.4 points per game
putbacks: 3.5 possessions per game; 0.99 ppp; 3.4 points per game
cut: 2.7 possessions per game; 1.24 ppp; 3.3 points per game
post-up: 0.6 possessions per game; 1.00 ppp; 0.6 points per game
transition: N/A

Total: 8.9 possessions per game; 9.7 points per game (1.089 ppp)

Jarrett Allen 2023-24:

PnR roll man: 3.4 possessions per game; 1.25 ppp; 4.3 points per game
putbacks: 1.9 possessions per game; 1.19 ppp; 2.3 points per game
cut: 4.7 possessions per game; 1.31 ppp; 6.1 points per game
post-up: 0.6 possessions per game; 0.95 ppp; 0.6 points per game
transition: 1.3 possessions per game; 1.31 ppp; 1.6 points per game

Total: 11.9 possessions per game; 14.9 points per game (1.252 ppp)

Jakob Poeltl 2023-24:

PnR roll man: 2.2 possessions per game; 1.29 ppp; 2.9 points per game
putbacks: 1.5 possessions per game; 1.26 ppp; 1.9 points per game
cut: 3.1 possessions per game; 1.20 ppp; 3.7 points per game
post-up: 0.8 possessions per game; 0.90 ppp; 0.7 points per game
transition: 1.0 possession per game; 1.44 ppp; 1.5 points per game

Total: 8.6 possessions per game; 9.3 points per game (1.081 ppp)

Jalen Duren 2023-24:

PnR roll man: 2.7 possessions per game; 1.34 ppp; 3.6 points per game
putbacks: 2.0 possessions per game; 1.27 ppp; 2.6 points per game
cut: 2.5 possessions per game; 1.31 ppp; 3.3 points per game
post-up: 0.8 possessions per game; 0.76 ppp; 0.6 points per game
transition: 1.6 possessions per game; 1.21 ppp; 2.0 points per game

Total: 9.6 possessions per game; 12.1 points per game (1.260 ppp)

Ahh, so he’ll be like Rudy offensively, but with none Rudy’s D.

[FrodoBaggins]

Some other examples:

Steven Adams 2017-18:

PnR roll man: 3.1 possessions per game; 1.22 ppp; 3.8 points per game
putbacks: 3.2 possessions per game; 0.96 ppp; 3.0 points per game
cut: 2.8 possessions per game; 1.29 ppp; 3.6 points per game
post-up: 1.4 possessions per game; 1.08 ppp; 1.6 points per game
transition: 1.1 possessions per game; 1.37 ppp; 1.6 points per game

Total: 11.6 possessions per game; 13.6 points per game (1.172 ppp)

Rudy Gobert 2021-22:

PnR roll man: 3.4 possessions per game; 1.32 ppp; 4.5 points per game
putbacks: 2.7 possessions per game; 1.31 ppp; 3.5 points per game
cut: 3.1 possessions per game; 1.36 ppp; 4.3 points per game
post-up: 0.7 possessions per game; 1.06 ppp; 0.8 points per game
transition: 0.9 possessions per game; 1.50 ppp; 1.4 points per game

Total: 10.8 possessions per game; 14.5 points per game (1.342 ppp)

[Big J]

Some other examples:

Steven Adams 2017-18:

PnR roll man: 3.1 possessions per game; 1.22 ppp; 3.8 points per game
putbacks: 3.2 possessions per game; 0.96 ppp; 3.0 points per game
cut: 2.8 possessions per game; 1.29 ppp; 3.6 points per game
post-up: 1.4 possessions per game; 1.08 ppp; 1.6 points per game
transition: 1.1 possessions per game; 1.37 ppp; 1.6 points per game

Total: 11.6 possessions per game; 13.6 points per game (1.172 ppp)

Rudy Gobert 2021-22:

PnR roll man: 3.4 possessions per game; 1.32 ppp; 4.5 points per game
putbacks: 2.7 possessions per game; 1.31 ppp; 3.5 points per game
cut: 3.1 possessions per game; 1.36 ppp; 4.3 points per game
post-up: 0.7 possessions per game; 1.06 ppp; 0.8 points per game
transition: 0.9 possessions per game; 1.50 ppp; 1.4 points per game

Total: 10.8 possessions per game; 14.5 points per game (1.342 ppp)

Adam’s & Gobert are both known for their D, not their offense, lol.

[FrodoBaggins]

I like Edey over Clingan for four primary reasons:

1) More durable
2) Better conditioning
3) More physical/strong/able to handle NBA physicality
4) Can hit free throws + potentially perimeter shots

Donovan Clingan's feet issues make me question if he can stay healthy throughout an 82-game NBA season let alone several. Zach has only missed one game in his entire four-year college career and that was for an illness.

Edey has been playing 31-32 minutes per game the last two seasons, shouldering a massive offensive burden. Clingan has been able to take it easier, playing significantly fewer minutes and in a more limited role where he doesn't have to do as much.

If there's one thing I'm certain of it's that Zach will walk into the NBA and immediately become the biggest and strongest guy in the league. The physicality won't bother him; I can't say the same for Clingan. Donovan's higher center of gravity, comparatively weaker base, and slighter frame make me believe there'll be an adjustment period. Maybe 2-3 years.

Defensive mobility/versatility is great but you need to do the basics well and be reliable.