Zach Edey, 7-4

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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#601 » by GoBobs » Sat Mar 30, 2024 3:47 am

JustBuzzin wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:College is not the NBA.

Timme was a great college player, his game however didn't translate to the next level.

It's pretty obvious to see that Edey will have trouble adjusting to the fast pace of the NBA. And these aren't regular college players. These are guys who jump higher and are much quicker than the players Edey has faced.

I'm 100% confident that Edey will be nothing more than a role player at the next level. If im wrong I will gladly eat crow. Dude would have been the #1 pick 20 years ago. Unfortunately for him the game has changed. There are no longer pure post up centers. You have to be versatile to play center.


Timme was 6'10'', Edey is 7'4", what part of that do you not understand?

My goodness dude did you listen to anything I posted?

I used Timme as an example of a great college player who's game didn't translate to the next level. Height has nothing to do with being great at the next level.

Edey will have trouble playing 30 minutes a night just because of his lack of mobility and his quickness on defense. If you don't understand that then there is no need for you to keep debating people. There is more to basketball than being tall.


Yeah, but being tall still helps. Height does change things. There are plenty of examples of shorter players that were good post players in college that didn't work out in the NBA.

There are no examples of players as big as Edey, who were as good as Edey in college that did not work out.

That is why you and all your alt accounts keep bring up Timmy ect.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#602 » by GoBobs » Sat Mar 30, 2024 3:50 am

Big J wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
Big J wrote:
Wiseman actually has a good motor. He just sucks ass on defense, and yea he’s got a low BBIQ… just like Edey.


Oh Edey is low BBIQ now....? Okay...... :crazy:

You have any evidence of that or just making more stuff up?


He averages 2 assists per game despite a super high usage rate. Being able to read defenses and find open teammates is a hallmark of high BBIQ.


Okay, but nobody on his team is better at scoring than him. The smart thing for him to do is to try and put it in the hole when he gets it. That is what he does.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#603 » by Big J » Sat Mar 30, 2024 3:54 am

GoBobs wrote:
Big J wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
Oh Edey is low BBIQ now....? Okay...... :crazy:

You have any evidence of that or just making more stuff up?


He averages 2 assists per game despite a super high usage rate. Being able to read defenses and find open teammates is a hallmark of high BBIQ.


Okay, but nobody on his team is better at scoring than him. The smart thing for him to do is to try and put it in the hole when he gets it. That is what he does.


Is anyone better at scoring on the Nuggets than Jokic?
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#604 » by GoBobs » Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:02 am

Big J wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
Big J wrote:
He averages 2 assists per game despite a super high usage rate. Being able to read defenses and find open teammates is a hallmark of high BBIQ.


Okay, but nobody on his team is better at scoring than him. The smart thing for him to do is to try and put it in the hole when he gets it. That is what he does.


Is anyone better at scoring on the Nuggets than Jokic?


How many assists did Jokic average when he was the same age Edey is now?
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#605 » by GoBobs » Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:04 am

disoblige wrote:Eddy barely plays for team Canada says something about the coach trust in him. Was -18(I think) in 2 min vs USA.


Are you really going to tell me about a 2 min sample size?

How many games did he play for team USA?

How old was he compared to the majority of guys playing in that international tournament?
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#606 » by disoblige » Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:07 am

GoBobs wrote:
disoblige wrote:Eddy barely plays for team Canada says something about the coach trust in him. Was -18(I think) in 2 min vs USA.


Are you really going to tell me about a 2 min sample size?

How many games did he play for team USA?

How old was he compared to the majority of guys playing in that international tournament?


There a reason why he only played only 2 min. Coach barely played him in the FIBA. Don’t tell me ur smarter than the coach.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#607 » by GoBobs » Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:11 am

disoblige wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
disoblige wrote:Eddy barely plays for team Canada says something about the coach trust in him. Was -18(I think) in 2 min vs USA.


Are you really going to tell me about a 2 min sample size?

How many games did he play for team USA?

How old was he compared to the majority of guys playing in that international tournament?


There a reason why he only played only 2 min. Coach barely played him in the FIBA. Don’t tell me ur smarter than the coach.


You think the reason could have been like... I don't know.... It was his first year with team Canada? There were a bunch of vet guys ahead of him?
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#608 » by JustBuzzin » Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:11 am

GoBobs wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
Timme was 6'10'', Edey is 7'4", what part of that do you not understand?

My goodness dude did you listen to anything I posted?

I used Timme as an example of a great college player who's game didn't translate to the next level. Height has nothing to do with being great at the next level.

Edey will have trouble playing 30 minutes a night just because of his lack of mobility and his quickness on defense. If you don't understand that then there is no need for you to keep debating people. There is more to basketball than being tall.


Yeah, but being tall still helps. Height does change things. There are plenty of examples of shorter players that were good post players in college that didn't work out in the NBA.

There are no examples of players as big as Edey, who were as good as Edey in college that did not work out.

That is why you and all your alt accounts keep bring up Timmy ect.

So you think Edey going to be a all-star at the NBA level?

First his offense might not even be what you think. While he has a post game, he is very slow with his movement. Guards will strip him on the double if he moves that slow in the post. Second who's going to slow down their offense just to play through Edey in the post? That doesn't seem like a winning recipe. Teams are going to make him adjust and start running him. A 7'4 300 pound center is not going to be playing major minutes vs fast paced offenses.

Also for as much as you hype him, why isn't he even a lock for a top 10 pick in a weak draft?


Something not adding up. :roll:
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#609 » by disoblige » Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:14 am

GoBobs wrote:
disoblige wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
Are you really going to tell me about a 2 min sample size?

How many games did he play for team USA?

How old was he compared to the majority of guys playing in that international tournament?


There a reason why he only played only 2 min. Coach barely played him in the FIBA. Don’t tell me ur smarter than the coach.


You think the reason could have been like... I don't know.... It was his first year with team Canada? There were a bunch of vet guys ahead of him?


Stop making excuses for him. You are not smarter than the coach. You obviously know why a healthy player isn’t the game and making dumb justifications.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#610 » by TheSuzerain » Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:14 am

disoblige wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
disoblige wrote:Eddy barely plays for team Canada says something about the coach trust in him. Was -18(I think) in 2 min vs USA.


Are you really going to tell me about a 2 min sample size?

How many games did he play for team USA?

How old was he compared to the majority of guys playing in that international tournament?


There a reason why he only played only 2 min. Coach barely played him in the FIBA. Don’t tell me ur smarter than the coach.

I think he shot 100% from the field.


And it's kind of funny to ding him for making a senior national team? Probably the 2nd or 3rd best one in the world?
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#611 » by GoBobs » Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:14 am

JustBuzzin wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:My goodness dude did you listen to anything I posted?

I used Timme as an example of a great college player who's game didn't translate to the next level. Height has nothing to do with being great at the next level.

Edey will have trouble playing 30 minutes a night just because of his lack of mobility and his quickness on defense. If you don't understand that then there is no need for you to keep debating people. There is more to basketball than being tall.


Yeah, but being tall still helps. Height does change things. There are plenty of examples of shorter players that were good post players in college that didn't work out in the NBA.

There are no examples of players as big as Edey, who were as good as Edey in college that did not work out.

That is why you and all your alt accounts keep bring up Timmy ect.

So you think Edey going to be a all-star at the NBA level?

First his offense might not even be what you think. While he has a post game, he is very slow with his movement. Guards will strip him on the double if he moves that slow in the post. Second who's going to slow down their offense just to play through Edey in the post? That doesn't seem like a winning recipe. Teams are going to make him adjust and start running him. A 7'4 300 pound center is not going to be playing major minutes vs fast paced offenses.

Also for as much as you hype him, why isn't he even a lock for a top 10 pick in a weak draft?


Something not adding up. :roll:


He is a lock for a top 10 pick you just haven't realized it yet
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#612 » by GoBobs » Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:16 am

disoblige wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
disoblige wrote:
There a reason why he only played only 2 min. Coach barely played him in the FIBA. Don’t tell me ur smarter than the coach.


You think the reason could have been like... I don't know.... It was his first year with team Canada? There were a bunch of vet guys ahead of him?


Stop making excuses for him. You are not smarter than the coach. You obviously know why a healthy player isn’t the game and making dumb justifications.


Oh point out the guys that are draft eligible that were tearing up that tournament. LMAO!
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#613 » by JustBuzzin » Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:19 am

GoBobs wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
Yeah, but being tall still helps. Height does change things. There are plenty of examples of shorter players that were good post players in college that didn't work out in the NBA.

There are no examples of players as big as Edey, who were as good as Edey in college that did not work out.

That is why you and all your alt accounts keep bring up Timmy ect.

So you think Edey going to be a all-star at the NBA level?

First his offense might not even be what you think. While he has a post game, he is very slow with his movement. Guards will strip him on the double if he moves that slow in the post. Second who's going to slow down their offense just to play through Edey in the post? That doesn't seem like a winning recipe. Teams are going to make him adjust and start running him. A 7'4 300 pound center is not going to be playing major minutes vs fast paced offenses.

Also for as much as you hype him, why isn't he even a lock for a top 10 pick in a weak draft?


Something not adding up. :roll:


He is a lock for a top 10 pick you just haven't realized it yet

Possibly. Still doesn't change the fact that he will be a role player at best.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#614 » by GoBobs » Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:21 am

JustBuzzin wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:So you think Edey going to be a all-star at the NBA level?

First his offense might not even be what you think. While he has a post game, he is very slow with his movement. Guards will strip him on the double if he moves that slow in the post. Second who's going to slow down their offense just to play through Edey in the post? That doesn't seem like a winning recipe. Teams are going to make him adjust and start running him. A 7'4 300 pound center is not going to be playing major minutes vs fast paced offenses.

Also for as much as you hype him, why isn't he even a lock for a top 10 pick in a weak draft?


Something not adding up. :roll:


He is a lock for a top 10 pick you just haven't realized it yet

Possibly. Still doesn't change the fact that he will be a role player at best.


that's your opinion, just happens to be wrong
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#615 » by JustBuzzin » Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:26 am

GoBobs wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
He is a lock for a top 10 pick you just haven't realized it yet

Possibly. Still doesn't change the fact that he will be a role player at best.


that's your opinion, just happens to be wrong

The fun part is we all get to see it play out. 8-)
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#616 » by disoblige » Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:31 am

JustBuzzin wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:Possibly. Still doesn't change the fact that he will be a role player at best.


that's your opinion, just happens to be wrong

The fun part is we all get to see it play out. 8-)


He will make excuses when Edey won’t get heavy minutes on the nba. I bet he has many of them lined up. From coaching, to his age, to his team, etc.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#617 » by The Moose » Sat Mar 30, 2024 5:19 am

Deanondraft had an interesting write up on Edey last year - https://deanondraft.com/2023/02/08/2023-draft-mid-season-board/

20. Zach Edey
At this point the draft is more or less out of guys that have decent odds of providing NBA value in a traditional mold, so it’s time to get weird.

Edey is currently rated as a late 2nd round pick at ESPN at #58 overall, and the reasons are fairly straightforward. He is a 7’4 giant who excels in the low post and is too slow to chase guards around the perimeter in the NCAA, so he is simply entering the league at the wrong time.

But it is unfair to lump him in with every other productive but slow college big in recent memory. In 14 years that sports-reference.com has been tracking PER, Edey currently is posting the best PER this season. The second best PER over that span was Edey last year. He is an incredibly rare talent.

Slow giants are dying out because they typically cannot punish smaller bigs on offense as efficiently as well spaced offenses can punish them on switches defensively. But how does that value proposition play out if a slower but more skilled version of Shaq entered the league?

Shaq should have been in high school for his freshman year of college, so let’s compare his sophomore and junior seasons to Edey’s career stats. Age weighted by minutes, pace adjusted per 40:
Image

Offensively Edey has slightly better output across the board, although Shaq was slightly younger on average. For the sake of argument, they are approximately equal offensively except Edey is a better FT shooter and can punish teams for defending him by hacking.

Shaq made just 52.7% FT in the NBA. If he made 72.7% instead, he would average an extra 1.8 points per game and his career TS% would leap from 58.6% to 63.2%– a major improvement in efficiency that roughly comes out to an insane +2.7 pts per 100. Edey is shooting 73.2% FT this year, so 72.7% is a fairly conservative longterm target– there is some chance he eventually makes 80%+ in time.
Stylistically, it’s not clear whose style translates better to the NBA. Shaq’s strength and athleticism made him essentially unstoppable in the post, but Edey is 3″ taller and more skilled. He could be unguardable in the way that hasn’t been seen since Kareem’s skyhook by being able to consistently make short range shots over any defender.

The area where Edey falls flat is defensively, where Shaq crushes him with steals, blocks, and athleticism. Edey’s defense would have likely been fine or even good in the 90’s, but nowadays the prospect of him defending a well spaced offense is almost certainly disastrous. UNLESS we see a shift in momentum away from extreme small ball trend and the game regresses slightly back toward bigball.

Why would this happen? For starters, Nikola Jokic and Joel Embiid are perennial MVP candidates who both play for contending teams. If they match up in the finals, and smaller bigs have a bad time defending them in the playoffs, teams may decide to compromise a roster spot for a traditional big to dust off just in case of such a match up.

Edey could also force teams to roster such a player if he plays a major role on a contender (sound crazy? I’m sure it sounded crazy to the 40 teams that passed on Jokic as well). After all, if he has a Shaq level offensive output that is +2 to +3 points better because of superior free throw shooting AND teams make it worse by trying to defend him with an undersized big, it’s not going to be super easy to make those points back up on the other end. And if teams end up dusting off their archaic big to limit his offensive dominance, he is already helping neuter the opposing offense.

So it’s not as cut and dry with Edey that he is too slow and should be a late round 2 flier like Luka Garza. He is an incredibly rare talent that is so dominant in the low post that he may help regress the game a bit away from the extreme small ball it has become.
And even without that, there is no rule that teams must play switching defense if they want to contend. Perhaps a creative coach can come up with a successful zone defense that hides Edey’s flaws defensively while he posts MVP caliber offensive output.

Edey is undoubtedly risky, there is a reasonable chance he does not fit in as more than a Boban type of big who eats occasional bench minutes. But he has serious upside that is getting massively disrespected with his current late 2nd ranking. Honestly ranking him 20th is erring on the side of caution. Most of the guys ranked higher are going to be bland rotation players or worse.
Edey might be the most efficient low post scorer in NBA history, so don’t be surprised if he roasts 6’10 bigs more aggressively on offense than modern NBA offenses can roast him on defense.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#618 » by GoBobs » Sat Mar 30, 2024 5:52 am

disoblige wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
that's your opinion, just happens to be wrong

The fun part is we all get to see it play out. 8-)


He will make excuses when Edey won’t get heavy minutes on the nba. I bet he has many of them lined up. From coaching, to his age, to his team, etc.


I'm not the one that changed my user name after hyping Ben Simmons for years.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#619 » by disoblige » Sat Mar 30, 2024 6:01 am

GoBobs wrote:
disoblige wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:The fun part is we all get to see it play out. 8-)


He will make excuses when Edey won’t get heavy minutes on the nba. I bet he has many of them lined up. From coaching, to his age, to his team, etc.


I'm not the one that changed my user name after hyping Ben Simmons for years.


Another excuse lineup. Former usernames or posts.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#620 » by FrodoBaggins » Sat Mar 30, 2024 6:09 am

The Moose wrote:Deanondraft had an interesting write up on Edey last year - https://deanondraft.com/2023/02/08/2023-draft-mid-season-board/

20. Zach Edey
At this point the draft is more or less out of guys that have decent odds of providing NBA value in a traditional mold, so it’s time to get weird.

Edey is currently rated as a late 2nd round pick at ESPN at #58 overall, and the reasons are fairly straightforward. He is a 7’4 giant who excels in the low post and is too slow to chase guards around the perimeter in the NCAA, so he is simply entering the league at the wrong time.

But it is unfair to lump him in with every other productive but slow college big in recent memory. In 14 years that sports-reference.com has been tracking PER, Edey currently is posting the best PER this season. The second best PER over that span was Edey last year. He is an incredibly rare talent.

Slow giants are dying out because they typically cannot punish smaller bigs on offense as efficiently as well spaced offenses can punish them on switches defensively. But how does that value proposition play out if a slower but more skilled version of Shaq entered the league?

Shaq should have been in high school for his freshman year of college, so let’s compare his sophomore and junior seasons to Edey’s career stats. Age weighted by minutes, pace adjusted per 40:
Image

Offensively Edey has slightly better output across the board, although Shaq was slightly younger on average. For the sake of argument, they are approximately equal offensively except Edey is a better FT shooter and can punish teams for defending him by hacking.

Shaq made just 52.7% FT in the NBA. If he made 72.7% instead, he would average an extra 1.8 points per game and his career TS% would leap from 58.6% to 63.2%– a major improvement in efficiency that roughly comes out to an insane +2.7 pts per 100. Edey is shooting 73.2% FT this year, so 72.7% is a fairly conservative longterm target– there is some chance he eventually makes 80%+ in time.
Stylistically, it’s not clear whose style translates better to the NBA. Shaq’s strength and athleticism made him essentially unstoppable in the post, but Edey is 3″ taller and more skilled. He could be unguardable in the way that hasn’t been seen since Kareem’s skyhook by being able to consistently make short range shots over any defender.

The area where Edey falls flat is defensively, where Shaq crushes him with steals, blocks, and athleticism. Edey’s defense would have likely been fine or even good in the 90’s, but nowadays the prospect of him defending a well spaced offense is almost certainly disastrous. UNLESS we see a shift in momentum away from extreme small ball trend and the game regresses slightly back toward bigball.

Why would this happen? For starters, Nikola Jokic and Joel Embiid are perennial MVP candidates who both play for contending teams. If they match up in the finals, and smaller bigs have a bad time defending them in the playoffs, teams may decide to compromise a roster spot for a traditional big to dust off just in case of such a match up.

Edey could also force teams to roster such a player if he plays a major role on a contender (sound crazy? I’m sure it sounded crazy to the 40 teams that passed on Jokic as well). After all, if he has a Shaq level offensive output that is +2 to +3 points better because of superior free throw shooting AND teams make it worse by trying to defend him with an undersized big, it’s not going to be super easy to make those points back up on the other end. And if teams end up dusting off their archaic big to limit his offensive dominance, he is already helping neuter the opposing offense.

So it’s not as cut and dry with Edey that he is too slow and should be a late round 2 flier like Luka Garza. He is an incredibly rare talent that is so dominant in the low post that he may help regress the game a bit away from the extreme small ball it has become.
And even without that, there is no rule that teams must play switching defense if they want to contend. Perhaps a creative coach can come up with a successful zone defense that hides Edey’s flaws defensively while he posts MVP caliber offensive output.

Edey is undoubtedly risky, there is a reasonable chance he does not fit in as more than a Boban type of big who eats occasional bench minutes. But he has serious upside that is getting massively disrespected with his current late 2nd ranking. Honestly ranking him 20th is erring on the side of caution. Most of the guys ranked higher are going to be bland rotation players or worse.
Edey might be the most efficient low post scorer in NBA history, so don’t be surprised if he roasts 6’10 bigs more aggressively on offense than modern NBA offenses can roast him on defense.

Great stuff. And that was written before Zach's improvement in mobility and increased ball screen usage.

A team like Miami could be an interesting destination for Edey. They implement more zone defense coverages than any team in the league. Thomas Bryant is the backup center and he's a terrible defender. Kevin Love is getting 17.5 minutes per game. And yet Miami is 9th in defensive rating. No team makes better use of bigs that are considered slow or defensively limited. Luka Garza would be a valuable rotation guy in Miami IMO.

Miami kind of reminds me of San Antonio in the 2010s. They routinely made the most out of guys like David Lee, Old Pau Gasol, and Boris Diaw. -5.5 rDRtg from 2015-16 to 2017-18.

And Bam has begun taking - and making - threes, which means they could probably play him with Zach at times.

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