Zach Edey, 7-4

[eminence]

Hot take: don't think he's notably slow on the court (not that he's really quicker than Gobert like those combine numbers might suggest either).

I think he looks slow because people aren't used to watching humans his size move.

[King Ken]

Edey has elite combine agility for his size. But he just looks slow in-game. Could be a processing issue in terms of reacting to play just a 1/4 to 1/2 second too late. The best defenders anticipate; if you react, you will look slow on defense.

The whole 'stone foot' is just a matter of moving too late relative to offensive player movements. Most if not all NBA players are fast enough in terms of agility if they can anticipate. 10-20% faster peak agility/peak sprint speed doesn't make a difference really on defense except in extreme cases (defensive savants who can recovery with freaky tools). Team defense is about getting in position on defense; man defense is about anticipating movements and have good defensive fundamentals.

I think you're right, it could be a processing issue. He looks slow in reacting because he seems to react more than read or anticipate plays which can buy you extra time. So while he can move fast in drills where the movement patterns are linear and predictable, when he has to make sudden, unexpected changes of direction it takes him a while to plant and gather. He's like an ocean liner. When it reaches full speed in a single direction its pretty fast relative to its size, but when it has to make a sudden quick turn its hella slow and you end up hitting an iceberg if you don't see it ahead of time.

It's called poor fluidity and it's his biggest weakness that impacts his offense and defense.

He's a freak athlete for his size but he's the only prospect to enter the modern NBA (08 and forward) with poor fluidity other than Edy Tavares.

You saw the difference yesterday with Clingan. His short area athleticism is very impressive but overall movements, Edey was superior. Whereas, Edey short area movements are poor.

Areas where you see his overall movement is going down hill as a roller, his screens are exceptional, his ability to get position off movement is hard af for a big and he does it with ease. But ask him to create his own shot, dribble drive, switch, closeout on D and he looks extremely clunky. If you know who he is, you will be a happy person but I believe fit is critical and everyone has an idea of his fit and it's different based on everyone you ask.

[Mark_83]

Edey has elite combine agility for his size. But he just looks slow in-game. Could be a processing issue in terms of reacting to play just a 1/4 to 1/2 second too late. The best defenders anticipate; if you react, you will look slow on defense.

The whole 'stone foot' is just a matter of moving too late relative to offensive player movements. Most if not all NBA players are fast enough in terms of agility if they can anticipate. 10-20% faster peak agility/peak sprint speed doesn't make a difference really on defense except in extreme cases (defensive savants who can recovery with freaky tools). Team defense is about getting in position on defense; man defense is about anticipating movements and have good defensive fundamentals.

I think you're right, it could be a processing issue. He looks slow in reacting because he seems to react more than read or anticipate plays which can buy you extra time. So while he can move fast in drills where the movement patterns are linear and predictable, when he has to make sudden, unexpected changes of direction it takes him a while to plant and gather. He's like an ocean liner. When it reaches full speed in a single direction its pretty fast relative to its size, but when it has to make a sudden quick turn its hella slow and you end up hitting an iceberg if you don't see it ahead of time.

And to add:

Defense is more about basketball IQ as opposed to tools. That's also why NBA teams can't just grab the best 6'8" pure athelete very year as defenders. NBA players become great defenders when 1) they have sufficient tools AND 2) have enough basketball IQ, or gets enough reps in the league contributing in other ways to get enough defensive reps.

People like LeBron who was an okay defender when he was enough become great defenders because the man knows every play of every team.

Players like Curry who are literally chairs on defense during their youth can become average defenders late career as their basketball (defensive) reps rack up.

Then you have defensive savants like Dort or Mobley, who are all-NBA defenders from their first year due to their basketball IQ on the dfensive side. Neither of them are elite atheletes for their size.

Of course I don't need to mention all the athletic studs with tools, but never become defenders. The most prominent case these days is the failed Wiseman and failing Duren. Duren has the tools of a god, but the defensive IQ of a drunk squirrel. Wiseman is just Wiseman, possibly the lowest basketball IQ player in the league.

Edey seems to me like someone who has the tools, and the offensive basketball IQ to develop his defensive instincts. But the question is if he will offer teams enough value during his first contract to get a second contract. A non-defender 7'4" player whose only skill if post offense with 1.5 moves - right hook, or right hook fake into drop step doesn't seem like the type who would get enough reps to develop in the NBA.

True. Look at Marc Gasol. Based on his pre-draft info there should have been no way he could have been a multiple-time All NBA Team defender and a Defensive Player of the Year. He was big and not particularly fast or agile, but he had elite bball IQ and instincts and was able to optimize his length, size, and strength through anticipation and positioning.

This was Gasol's pre-draft report prior to being a late second round pick (#48). Unlike Pau, he wasn't a very highly regarded prospect until later because it was difficult to scout intangibles back then, especially for foreign players that you couldn't watch game in and game out.

Weaknesses: Unlike Pau, Marc is a below average athlete … Heavy legged player who will need to improve his foot speed to play in the NBA. Lacks fluidity in his movements as he is a bit mechanical. Must continue to work on conditioning his body as he appears to be carrying a little extra weight. A focus on strength training could improve his overall mobility greatly. Lacks the explosiveness to be even a decent shot blocker at the NBA level. Not a very good rebounder out of position, as he possesses below average lateral quickness. Post defense has improved greatly this year but still struggles when having to guard top athletes. Offensively his execution in the post is slow which allows opposing defenders to recover quickly, must learn to make moves more decisively. Can be a little foul prone. Not a great help defender by any means as he is often late on the play. Even though Gasol is a late bloomer who has yet to reach his potential hes made big strides in the past year

[King Ken]

I think you're right, it could be a processing issue. He looks slow in reacting because he seems to react more than read or anticipate plays which can buy you extra time. So while he can move fast in drills where the movement patterns are linear and predictable, when he has to make sudden, unexpected changes of direction it takes him a while to plant and gather. He's like an ocean liner. When it reaches full speed in a single direction its pretty fast relative to its size, but when it has to make a sudden quick turn its hella slow and you end up hitting an iceberg if you don't see it ahead of time.

And to add:

Defense is more about basketball IQ as opposed to tools. That's also why NBA teams can't just grab the best 6'8" pure athelete very year as defenders. NBA players become great defenders when 1) they have sufficient tools AND 2) have enough basketball IQ, or gets enough reps in the league contributing in other ways to get enough defensive reps.

People like LeBron who was an okay defender when he was enough become great defenders because the man knows every play of every team.

Players like Curry who are literally chairs on defense during their youth can become average defenders late career as their basketball (defensive) reps rack up.

Then you have defensive savants like Dort or Mobley, who are all-NBA defenders from their first year due to their basketball IQ on the dfensive side. Neither of them are elite atheletes for their size.

Of course I don't need to mention all the athletic studs with tools, but never become defenders. The most prominent case these days is the failed Wiseman and failing Duren. Duren has the tools of a god, but the defensive IQ of a drunk squirrel. Wiseman is just Wiseman, possibly the lowest basketball IQ player in the league.

Edey seems to me like someone who has the tools, and the offensive basketball IQ to develop his defensive instincts. But the question is if he will offer teams enough value during his first contract to get a second contract. A non-defender 7'4" player whose only skill if post offense with 1.5 moves - right hook, or right hook fake into drop step doesn't seem like the type who would get enough reps to develop in the NBA.

True. Look at Marc Gasol. Based on his pre-draft info there should have been no way he could have been a multiple-time All NBA Team defender and a Defensive Player of the Year. He was big and not particularly fast or agile, but he had elite bball IQ and instincts and was able to optimize his length, size, and strength through anticipation and positioning.

This was Gasol's pre-draft report prior to being a late second round pick (#48). Unlike Pau, he wasn't a very highly regarded prospect until later because it was difficult to scout intangibles back then, especially for foreign players that you couldn't watch game in and game out.

Weaknesses: Unlike Pau, Marc is a below average athlete … Heavy legged player who will need to improve his foot speed to play in the NBA. Lacks fluidity in his movements as he is a bit mechanical. Must continue to work on conditioning his body as he appears to be carrying a little extra weight. A focus on strength training could improve his overall mobility greatly. Lacks the explosiveness to be even a decent shot blocker at the NBA level. Not a very good rebounder out of position, as he possesses below average lateral quickness. Post defense has improved greatly this year but still struggles when having to guard top athletes. Offensively his execution in the post is slow which allows opposing defenders to recover quickly, must learn to make moves more decisively. Can be a little foul prone. Not a great help defender by any means as he is often late on the play. Even though Gasol is a late bloomer who has yet to reach his potential hes made big strides in the past year

Marc Gasol is essentially what Edey defensive model looks like if he becomes an excellent NBA defender but Gasol was a master of angles and it takes YEARS to develop in that form and you need years of experience. You can't do it getting spot minutes.

I keep saying this but the higher Edey goes the better for his career but if he goes too high like top 5 or even top 8. It's the danger zone. Edey from 9-20 is where Zach wants to go. The higher, the better.

In my opinion for Edey

1. A heliocentric dynamic ball PG or primary ball handler is key.

2. Go somewhere where they let you be you

3. Go somewhere with an excellent coach

4. Go somewhere where they got a plan for you

5. Go somewhere where they rewards hard work.

6. Go somewhere where their gleague is damn good. Because while he shouldn't be a gleague, defense is valuable and it could happen. You don't want to go somewhere where the gleague is just scoring reps against bad comp. They have to have a vision.

While I don't believe he will start for most teams in year 1, I do believe if he can improve his defense greatly on a year to year basis, he could become an all star but he has to get the reps and end up in a good situation

[bwgood77]

When Clingan was taken out with 8 minutes to go, Edey was at 22 points on 9-18 shooting, 4-6 FTA, .533 TS

That's not really great. His stats are inflated by scoring 9 points on 4 shots and 4 free throws vs Karaban, and then 6 points on 3 shots in the final 2 minutes which was basically garbage time

I think it showed Edey is gonna struggle against NBA sized Cs, especially if he doesn't develop counters or other moves

It hasn't really changed my evaluation of him, I think he's a situational guy who needs certain matchups to be productive.

I mean, is that really struggling? Clingan is one of the top defensive big men in the country, and one of the few centers to even begin to challenge him size wise in the tournament and he still had 22 on him. What really hurt them was his teams inability to score outside of Edey and his vulnerability to the pick and roll. Other big centers aren't gonna be what hurt him, it'll be the athletic guards and small ball 5s.

22 on sub-par efficiency

That was in 32 minutes of play, which is his season average minutes. Overall, he averaged 25 points on 14 FGA, 11 FTA in 32 minutes (TS of .659) to 22 points on 18 FGA, 6 FTA (TS of .533). That's a pretty big drop off in production, and the problematic thing for Edey is he's gonna be facing guys near enough that size on most nights instead of it being just a one-off thing

It would be one thing if the game plan was to swarm Edey like what happened to him last year and force his teammates to help, but that wasn't the plan, they let Edey go at Clingan and Johnson 1 on 1, and it wasn't really working for Edey

Also, the reason why his teammates were unable to score outside of him is cause he wasn't scoring enough to justify more than single coverage. That's the level you need as a post player, you need to force opponents to double you, and Edey wasn't good enough to force that last night, meaning the perimeter defenders got to stay home and it suffocated the whole offense. And if Edey can't do that as a senior in college against Donovan Clingan, he's not gonna be able to do it on a nightly basis in the NBA like guys like Jokic and Embiid

Then you combine that with as you said his struggles in PnR defense, and it's gonna be hard for him to get consistent minutes as a net positive.

He had kind of a bad stretch where he went 0-6..overall he wasn't super efficient but he played well. I wouldn't take SO much out of one game. If you really think he had that bad of a game. Why would you or others be SO much higher on Clingan after a game like this then? Because Edey only scored 22 on 9/18? He also got to the line 10x..and is very good at getting to the line.

Clingan has 11 and 5, only can get to the line for 1 FTA.

I'm not saying Edey will be better than Clingan. Clingan does have age on his side, but to cherry pick things out of a game like this where Edey really had to do everything to try and keep them in the game, against by far the best team in the country, is tough.

There hasn't been a C to come out of college of all the superstars in NBA history that averaged more in his last year of college that I can find other than Wilt and David Robinson. Though Kareem and Shaq averaged more in one of their other years before their final one...but not much.

Of course I guess the argument is that was a different era. They didn't need to be quick defensively or score from outside. There are a lot of Cs in today's game that can't really guard on the perimeter and are not real quick laterally, like JV, Nurkic, Zubac, Adams, Jokic, Sabonis, Kessler, Towns, Lopez. I see a lot of comparisons to Lopez all over the net...how Lopez was though of as an inside scorer but plodder on defense...and he didn't shoot 3s...he had 7 attempts his first 6 years in the NBA and made none. Then he was 1-10 his 7th year and 2-14 his 8th.

I have no idea how Edey will be, but I think he could be anything from a solid starter to decent backup. You never know with guys. Marc Gasol too...no one would have ever suspected he would be a DPOY when he came in.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Clingan imo is vastly overrated too. And when it was man up Edey struggled. Sure, he got his, he was able to park in the paint and elbow his way to separation and it's nearly impossible to stop that. But, majority of his 37 points came against a scrub backup and Karaban who is 6'6" and much of that was in garbage time down double digits. It wasn't a great performance. It was more bad offense rather than Clingan's good defense that resulted in all those missed shots within 4 feet of the basket.

At the next level, Edey will not only face guys at minimum, like Clingan on the defensive end, but when Edey is on defense he'll be facing much tougher matchups because teams will just spam switches on him. Edey will go into drop coverage because he has to, and guys will just make it so he'll need to come off the floor. There's no scenario where Edey will be utilized like he was at Purdue.

I'm sorry this hurts his fans feeling but it's true. Clingan isn't great either but he's younger, he does move better in space, does have better defensive instincts and an outside shot is somewhat believable. But he's essentially useless on offense and he'll be a liability in space too, just not as bad as Edey. That's why Clingan should be drafted before Edey.

The only thing this game did for me was prove Clingan isn't 7'2" like people claim and Edey's "official" combine numbers (all of them) were embellished. He's not 7' 3.5" barefoot and his timed speeds aren't at all believable either. Remember, it's a TV show folks. They want story lines. If they have to fudge numbers here or there to create myths they'll do it especially if there's no harm no foul.

[DOT]

There hasn't been a C to come out of college of all the superstars in NBA history that averaged more in his last year of college that I can find other than Wilt and David Robinson. Though Kareem and Shaq averaged more in one of their other years before their final one...but not much.

If scoring a lot in college meant your game would translate, then Jimmer Fredette would've been a superstar. If you want to talk about bigs, Wayman Tisdale averaged 26 ppg on 58% shooting over 3 seasons, with his lowest being 24.5 ppg. He was pretty good, but he wasn't a star

Nobody's disputing Edey's a dominant college player. I'm saying I don't think his game is gonna translate to more than a situational big in the pros

Of course I don't know how he's gonna turn out, but if you wanna argue that, then what are you doing here? Since nobody knows, shouldn't you not be discussing anyone either?

He may still crack my top 14, I haven't done enough looking yet to solidify my board, but I don't think he has much of a ceiling. He does specialize enough that someone is gonna find a role for him, but I think he's a situational guy.

[bwgood77]

There hasn't been a C to come out of college of all the superstars in NBA history that averaged more in his last year of college that I can find other than Wilt and David Robinson. Though Kareem and Shaq averaged more in one of their other years before their final one...but not much.

If scoring a lot in college meant your game would translate, then Jimmer Fredette would've been a superstar. If you want to talk about bigs, Wayman Tisdale averaged 26 ppg on 58% shooting over 3 seasons, with his lowest being 24.5 ppg. He was pretty good, but he wasn't a star

Nobody's disputing Edey's a dominant college player. I'm saying I don't think his game is gonna translate to more than a situational big in the pros

Of course I don't know how he's gonna turn out, but if you wanna argue that, then what are you doing here? Since nobody knows, shouldn't you not be discussing anyone either?

He may still crack my top 14, I haven't done enough looking yet to solidify my board, but I don't think he has much of a ceiling. He does specialize enough that someone is gonna find a role for him, but I think he's a situational guy.

Oh, well if he will crack your top 14 or be close, than you may have him higher than me. I think he could potentially be a solid starter given his size and skills. Though I have concerns obviously, because of his weaknesses. I mean I don't think he would be a 25 ppg guy. Just the fact that he is able to do it at such a high level in college makes me think he can likely be decent at scoring inside and getting to the line in the NBA. I think he could be a decent rim protector too. But I don't expect anything close to an all star.

I wouldn't mind the Suns going Edey or Kolek, because they would need a more ready guy, but I know both have those question marks about not translating at all, even though a lot of guys end up erasing those question marks when they get into the NBA.

[GoBobs]

Hot take: don't think he's notably slow on the court (not that he's really quicker than Gobert like those combine numbers might suggest either).

I think he looks slow because people aren't used to watching humans his size move.

I think this is a pretty good take. There is also another reason he looks slow. He is pacing himself.

He plays almost the whole game for his college team. A lot of his stamina bar is devoted to physical play and carving out space, boxing out ect.

He does a pretty good job of getting back on defense but he is more jogging down the court when changing to offense than sprinting down there. In the NBA he is going to have to change ends of the court more frequently due to the shorter shot clock and this adjustment is going to be a bit of a challenge.

Can he play with more energy in shorter spurts if he actually gets some bench rest during the game, probably. Most guys can.

Even though this is going to be a challenging adjustment he still has less red flags than anyone else in this draft.

[GoBobs]

I mean, is that really struggling? Clingan is one of the top defensive big men in the country, and one of the few centers to even begin to challenge him size wise in the tournament and he still had 22 on him. What really hurt them was his teams inability to score outside of Edey and his vulnerability to the pick and roll. Other big centers aren't gonna be what hurt him, it'll be the athletic guards and small ball 5s.

22 on sub-par efficiency

That was in 32 minutes of play, which is his season average minutes. Overall, he averaged 25 points on 14 FGA, 11 FTA in 32 minutes (TS of .659) to 22 points on 18 FGA, 6 FTA (TS of .533). That's a pretty big drop off in production, and the problematic thing for Edey is he's gonna be facing guys near enough that size on most nights instead of it being just a one-off thing

It would be one thing if the game plan was to swarm Edey like what happened to him last year and force his teammates to help, but that wasn't the plan, they let Edey go at Clingan and Johnson 1 on 1, and it wasn't really working for Edey

Also, the reason why his teammates were unable to score outside of him is cause he wasn't scoring enough to justify more than single coverage. That's the level you need as a post player, you need to force opponents to double you, and Edey wasn't good enough to force that last night, meaning the perimeter defenders got to stay home and it suffocated the whole offense. And if Edey can't do that as a senior in college against Donovan Clingan, he's not gonna be able to do it on a nightly basis in the NBA like guys like Jokic and Embiid

Then you combine that with as you said his struggles in PnR defense, and it's gonna be hard for him to get consistent minutes as a net positive.

He had kind of a bad stretch where he went 0-6..overall he wasn't super efficient but he played well. I wouldn't take SO much out of one game. If you really think he had that bad of a game. Why would you or others be SO much higher on Clingan after a game like this then? Because Edey only scored 22 on 9/18? He also got to the line 10x..and is very good at getting to the line.

Clingan has 11 and 5, only can get to the line for 1 FTA.

I'm not saying Edey will be better than Clingan. Clingan does have age on his side, but to cherry pick things out of a game like this where Edey really had to do everything to try and keep them in the game, against by far the best team in the country, is tough.

There hasn't been a C to come out of college of all the superstars in NBA history that averaged more in his last year of college that I can find other than Wilt and David Robinson. Though Kareem and Shaq averaged more in one of their other years before their final one...but not much.

Of course I guess the argument is that was a different era. They didn't need to be quick defensively or score from outside. There are a lot of Cs in today's game that can't really guard on the perimeter and are not real quick laterally, like JV, Nurkic, Zubac, Adams, Jokic, Sabonis, Kessler, Towns, Lopez. I see a lot of comparisons to Lopez all over the net...how Lopez was though of as an inside scorer but plodder on defense...and he didn't shoot 3s...he had 7 attempts his first 6 years in the NBA and made none. Then he was 1-10 his 7th year and 2-14 his 8th.

I have no idea how Edey will be, but I think he could be anything from a solid starter to decent backup. You never know with guys. Marc Gasol too...no one would have ever suspected he would be a DPOY when he came in.

He had that bad stretch mostly because he was gassed. He is usually able to catch some rest on defense but the Uconn sets make the defense constantly work. He may have also been a little bit emotionally excited to start the game than normal because of the stage, and it looked like he was expending a ton of energy early. He also air balled a free throw, which is uncharacteristic for him and another indication he was gassed.

If Edey played for Uconn and Clingan played for Purdue what would have happened? Perception would be wildly different.

[QingJames]

Are people purposefully pretending not to understand why Edey was guarded by Karaban for so much of this game? Clingan got into foul trouble early because, again, he couldn't stop Edey. Edey is so big and strong that smaller bigs will have no choice but to foul him if he catches the ball in the deep post. That will remain true in the NBA.

If people want to **** on Edey they should really just focus on the defensive stuff, which is valid IMO and might limit him to a 10-15 mpg role in the NBA. But are we really trying to pretend Edey isn't a pretty unstoppable offensive player? He'll be like a supercharged Enes Kanter in my view: great per-minute scorer and excellent rebounder, but with massive defensive liabilities.

But let's not pretend that guys like Ayton, Poeltl, Capela, Duren, Sabonis, Gafford, and the vast majority of other starting C's in this league are going to do anything to bother Edey's offense. He's instantly coming into the league as one of the strongest guys in the NBA. He's a late lottery pick at absolute best because of the defensive stuff - and I wouldn't even take him that high - but we don't need to make up fantasies about his offense not translating just because people don't like watching post-ups.

[BlazersBroncos]

The only thing this game did for me was prove Clingan isn't 7'2" like people claim and Edey's "official" combine numbers (all of them) were embellished. He's not 7' 3.5" barefoot and his timed speeds aren't at all believable either. Remember, it's a TV show folks. They want story lines. If they have to fudge numbers here or there to create myths they'll do it especially if there's no harm no foul.

The ability to inject conspiracy into even a sports testing numbers is bananas.

He may not be as fast/quick in game but to make a baseless accusation that they fudged his numbers to gain chatter is absurd. He was a projected SRP. No one really cared about Edey nearly as much until this run. They wouldnt lift a finger to conspire and fake the guys testing. Come on.

[FrodoBaggins]

Are people purposefully pretending not to understand why Edey was guarded by Karaban for so much of this game? Clingan got into foul trouble early because, again, he couldn't stop Edey. Edey is so big and strong that smaller bigs will have no choice but to foul him if he catches the ball in the deep post. That will remain true in the NBA.

If people want to **** on Edey they should really just focus on the defensive stuff, which is valid IMO and might limit him to a 10-15 mpg role in the NBA. But are we really trying to pretend Edey isn't a pretty unstoppable offensive player? He'll be like a supercharged Enes Kanter in my view: great per-minute scorer and excellent rebounder, but with massive defensive liabilities.

But let's not pretend that guys like Ayton, Poeltl, Capela, Duren, Sabonis, Gafford, and the vast majority of other starting C's in this league are going to do anything to bother Edey's offense. He's instantly coming into the league as one of the strongest guys in the NBA. He's a late lottery pick at absolute best because of the defensive stuff - and I wouldn't even take him that high - but we don't need to make up fantasies about his offense not translating just because people don't like watching post-ups.

A supercharged Enes Kanter with the size to play effective drop coverage and deter shots in the paint. That's a nice rotation guy. An extremely efficient double-double with one block in 15 minutes per game. Land on the right team and that's 6th man of the year potential.

[Big J]

Are people purposefully pretending not to understand why Edey was guarded by Karaban for so much of this game? Clingan got into foul trouble early because, again, he couldn't stop Edey. Edey is so big and strong that smaller bigs will have no choice but to foul him if he catches the ball in the deep post. That will remain true in the NBA.

If people want to **** on Edey they should really just focus on the defensive stuff, which is valid IMO and might limit him to a 10-15 mpg role in the NBA. But are we really trying to pretend Edey isn't a pretty unstoppable offensive player? He'll be like a supercharged Enes Kanter in my view: great per-minute scorer and excellent rebounder, but with massive defensive liabilities.

But let's not pretend that guys like Ayton, Poeltl, Capela, Duren, Sabonis, Gafford, and the vast majority of other starting C's in this league are going to do anything to bother Edey's offense. He's instantly coming into the league as one of the strongest guys in the NBA. He's a late lottery pick at absolute best because of the defensive stuff - and I wouldn't even take him that high - but we don't need to make up fantasies about his offense not translating just because people don't like watching post-ups.

A supercharged Enes Kanter with the size to play effective drop coverage and deter shots in the paint. That's a nice rotation guy. An extremely efficient double-double with one block in 15 minutes per game. Land on the right team and that's 6th man of the year potential.

The league is going away from post ups though. He’s not getting anywhere close to the amount of post touches that he gets in college.

[FrodoBaggins]

Are people purposefully pretending not to understand why Edey was guarded by Karaban for so much of this game? Clingan got into foul trouble early because, again, he couldn't stop Edey. Edey is so big and strong that smaller bigs will have no choice but to foul him if he catches the ball in the deep post. That will remain true in the NBA.

If people want to **** on Edey they should really just focus on the defensive stuff, which is valid IMO and might limit him to a 10-15 mpg role in the NBA. But are we really trying to pretend Edey isn't a pretty unstoppable offensive player? He'll be like a supercharged Enes Kanter in my view: great per-minute scorer and excellent rebounder, but with massive defensive liabilities.

But let's not pretend that guys like Ayton, Poeltl, Capela, Duren, Sabonis, Gafford, and the vast majority of other starting C's in this league are going to do anything to bother Edey's offense. He's instantly coming into the league as one of the strongest guys in the NBA. He's a late lottery pick at absolute best because of the defensive stuff - and I wouldn't even take him that high - but we don't need to make up fantasies about his offense not translating just because people don't like watching post-ups.

A supercharged Enes Kanter with the size to play effective drop coverage and deter shots in the paint. That's a nice rotation guy. An extremely efficient double-double with one block in 15 minutes per game. Land on the right team and that's 6th man of the year potential.

The league is going away from post ups though. He’s not getting anywhere close to the amount of post touches that he gets in college.

Pretty sure we had this discussion a week ago.

Zach's role in the NBA is going to be different. He'll be more of a rim-runner and clean-up guy with a greater frequency of seals and post pins off the roll, off-ball movement, and potentially in transition. Post-up isolations will be thrown in situationally: against mismatches/cross matches and switches, against bench units, and late in the shot clock during broken plays.

Pretty much how Zubac plays now.

Edey's post-ups accounted for 62% of his total offense as of March 7th, 2024. Might be a little more with the tournament having happened. Putbacks accounted for 15%. PnR roll man accounted for 8%. Cuts account for 6%.

That right there is 91% of his offense. I assume the rest is transition and miscellaneous undefined plays.

All that's going to happen is that his frequency of post-up plays as defined by Synergy will half to around 20-30%. His cuts and PnR roll man plays will both jump up to 20-30%. Putbacks will go to 15-30%.

[lastb1ckman]

Are people purposefully pretending not to understand why Edey was guarded by Karaban for so much of this game? Clingan got into foul trouble early because, again, he couldn't stop Edey. Edey is so big and strong that smaller bigs will have no choice but to foul him if he catches the ball in the deep post. That will remain true in the NBA.

If people want to **** on Edey they should really just focus on the defensive stuff, which is valid IMO and might limit him to a 10-15 mpg role in the NBA. But are we really trying to pretend Edey isn't a pretty unstoppable offensive player? He'll be like a supercharged Enes Kanter in my view: great per-minute scorer and excellent rebounder, but with massive defensive liabilities.

But let's not pretend that guys like Ayton, Poeltl, Capela, Duren, Sabonis, Gafford, and the vast majority of other starting C's in this league are going to do anything to bother Edey's offense. He's instantly coming into the league as one of the strongest guys in the NBA. He's a late lottery pick at absolute best because of the defensive stuff - and I wouldn't even take him that high - but we don't need to make up fantasies about his offense not translating just because people don't like watching post-ups.

A supercharged Enes Kanter with the size to play effective drop coverage and deter shots in the paint. That's a nice rotation guy. An extremely efficient double-double with one block in 15 minutes per game. Land on the right team and that's 6th man of the year potential.

The league is going away from post ups though. He’s not getting anywhere close to the amount of post touches that he gets in college.

They're talking about him playing a rotational role on the proper team, not a star role. No matter what he is not going to get the same touches as he got in college. But his ability to post up gives him more dimension on offense than rim runners like Clingan or even Kessler. Safety valve points for when the offense gets bogged down. These points along with his size and strength will help with rebounding, wearing down opposing big men (usually backups), and getting them in foul trouble. There's use for a player like that in this league.

[Big J]

A supercharged Enes Kanter with the size to play effective drop coverage and deter shots in the paint. That's a nice rotation guy. An extremely efficient double-double with one block in 15 minutes per game. Land on the right team and that's 6th man of the year potential.

The league is going away from post ups though. He’s not getting anywhere close to the amount of post touches that he gets in college.

Pretty sure we had this discussion a week ago.

Zach's role in the NBA is going to be different. He'll be more of a rim-runner and clean-up guy with a greater frequency of seals and post pins off the roll, off-ball movement, and potentially in transition. Post-up isolations will be thrown in situationally: against mismatches/cross matches and switches, against bench units, and late in the shot clock during broken plays.

Pretty much how Zubac plays now.

Edey's post-ups accounted for 62% of his total offense as of March 7th, 2024. Might be a little more with the tournament having happened. Putbacks accounted for 15%. PnR roll man accounted for 8%. Cuts account for 6%.

That right there is 91% of his offense. I assume the rest is transition and miscellaneous undefined plays.

All that's going to happen is that his frequency of post-up plays as defined by Synergy will half to around 20-30%. His cuts and PnR roll man plays will both jump up to 20-30%. Putbacks will go to 15-30%.

If they are going to use him as a rim runner and pick & roll guy why would any team play him instead of a rim runner/P&R guy that is actually good at defense?

[FrodoBaggins]

The league is going away from post ups though. He’s not getting anywhere close to the amount of post touches that he gets in college.

Pretty sure we had this discussion a week ago.

Zach's role in the NBA is going to be different. He'll be more of a rim-runner and clean-up guy with a greater frequency of seals and post pins off the roll, off-ball movement, and potentially in transition. Post-up isolations will be thrown in situationally: against mismatches/cross matches and switches, against bench units, and late in the shot clock during broken plays.

Pretty much how Zubac plays now.

Edey's post-ups accounted for 62% of his total offense as of March 7th, 2024. Might be a little more with the tournament having happened. Putbacks accounted for 15%. PnR roll man accounted for 8%. Cuts account for 6%.

That right there is 91% of his offense. I assume the rest is transition and miscellaneous undefined plays.

All that's going to happen is that his frequency of post-up plays as defined by Synergy will half to around 20-30%. His cuts and PnR roll man plays will both jump up to 20-30%. Putbacks will go to 15-30%.

If they are going to use him as a rim runner and pick & roll guy why would any team play him instead of a rim runner/P&R guy that is actually good at defense?

Depends on a team's personnel and scheme.

Zach's combination of size and athleticism makes him unique compared to other rim runners. His main advantages are his rebounding, screening, general physical play, foul drawing, and as King Ken said, his more dynamic offensive game.

But his ability to post up gives him more dimension on offense than rim runners like Clingan or even Kessler. Safety valve points for when the offense gets bogged down.

That superior offensive ability gives him more options not only within the rim-runner/P&R role but also outside of it.

I'd also contest your point about his defense.

Zach has the potential to be effective as a paint deterrent in drop coverage. Maybe even elite. He has the size, raw athleticism, and at times displayed more activity on defense.

Edey's block rate and personal foul rate were at their highest during his freshmen year where he only played 14.7 minutes per game. They naturally went down as his role changed and his offensive burden increased. This is a subtle indicator he can play more aggressively on defense in a lesser role where he doesn't have to conserve energy and avoid foul trouble.

[Big J]

Pretty sure we had this discussion a week ago.

Zach's role in the NBA is going to be different. He'll be more of a rim-runner and clean-up guy with a greater frequency of seals and post pins off the roll, off-ball movement, and potentially in transition. Post-up isolations will be thrown in situationally: against mismatches/cross matches and switches, against bench units, and late in the shot clock during broken plays.

Pretty much how Zubac plays now.

Edey's post-ups accounted for 62% of his total offense as of March 7th, 2024. Might be a little more with the tournament having happened. Putbacks accounted for 15%. PnR roll man accounted for 8%. Cuts account for 6%.

That right there is 91% of his offense. I assume the rest is transition and miscellaneous undefined plays.

All that's going to happen is that his frequency of post-up plays as defined by Synergy will half to around 20-30%. His cuts and PnR roll man plays will both jump up to 20-30%. Putbacks will go to 15-30%.

If they are going to use him as a rim runner and pick & roll guy why would any team play him instead of a rim runner/P&R guy that is actually good at defense?

Depends on a team's personnel and scheme.

Zach's combination of size and athleticism makes him unique compared to other rim runners. His main advantages are his rebounding, screening, general physical play, foul drawing, and as King Ken said, his more dynamic offensive game.

But his ability to post up gives him more dimension on offense than rim runners like Clingan or even Kessler. Safety valve points for when the offense gets bogged down.

That superior offensive ability gives him more options not only within the rim-runner/P&R role but also outside of it.

I'd also contest your point about his defense.

Zach has the potential to be effective as a paint deterrent in drop coverage. Maybe even elite. He has the size, raw athleticism, and at times displayed more activity on defense.

Edey's block rate and personal foul rate were at their highest during his freshmen year where he only played 14.7 minutes per game. They naturally went down as his role changed and his offensive burden increased. This is a subtle indicator he can play more aggressively on defense in a lesser role where he doesn't have to conserve energy and avoid foul trouble.

C'mon with the defense man. We all saw what happened when UCONN kept spamming pick & rolls against him. He's just too limited physically to improve that... and that's okay.

[FrodoBaggins]

If they are going to use him as a rim runner and pick & roll guy why would any team play him instead of a rim runner/P&R guy that is actually good at defense?

Depends on a team's personnel and scheme.

Zach's combination of size and athleticism makes him unique compared to other rim runners. His main advantages are his rebounding, screening, general physical play, foul drawing, and as King Ken said, his more dynamic offensive game.

But his ability to post up gives him more dimension on offense than rim runners like Clingan or even Kessler. Safety valve points for when the offense gets bogged down.

That superior offensive ability gives him more options not only within the rim-runner/P&R role but also outside of it.

I'd also contest your point about his defense.

Zach has the potential to be effective as a paint deterrent in drop coverage. Maybe even elite. He has the size, raw athleticism, and at times displayed more activity on defense.

Edey's block rate and personal foul rate were at their highest during his freshmen year where he only played 14.7 minutes per game. They naturally went down as his role changed and his offensive burden increased. This is a subtle indicator he can play more aggressively on defense in a lesser role where he doesn't have to conserve energy and avoid foul trouble.

C'mon with the defense man. We all saw what happened when UCONN kept spamming pick & rolls against him. He's just too limited physically to improve that... and that's okay.

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