Ron Holland - G League Ignite - 2024 NBA Draft

[RyugaFan]

Holland's pretty stiff and upright. He just physically doesn't look like he can move all that functionally.

[SeattleJazzFan]

Yes or No? Holland statistically was better this year than Scoot was in the Gleague?

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ron-holland--scoot-henderson

I just don't really understand how 1 guy is older, playing his 2nd year in the league and less productive was a #1 pick type of talent most years. While the other guy is bigger, younger, 1st year in league and more productive is not even a lock to be a top 10 pick in this draft.

Are we just that done with the Gleague after how much Scoot has disappointed?

absolutely a fair question. bigger, more productive across the board and younger. should be a no brainer. but here is the answer to your question - it's stupid, but it's the truth.

at some point a couple years ago when Scoot was in the g league as a 17 just turning 18 year old, the "experts" decided he was NEXT. they saw a 17 year old with a grown man's body who was athletic and hanging with grown men. they decided he was the next big thing and after that, nothing else mattered (unless you were 7'5" with guard skills). it didn't matter if you were 6'7" and athletic AF with a motor that wouldn't stop (Amen was basically a 6'7" version of Scoot for crying out loud and that's being kind to Scoot). for many it didn't matter, if you were an athletic 6'9", could shoot the **** out the ball and were one of the best players in the SEC as a frosh. it didn't matter that Scoot didn't get any taller and still couldn't shoot. it was already decided, enough people bought in, that was that and there was no chance he was slipping past three - Miller had to pull the upset at the last second on Charlotte's board and sneak in at #2.

Holland didn't get the same traction/momentum/hype as a 17 year old and here we are.

tl;dr - scoot got early hype, people ignored what actually took place on the court and boom.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Holland's pretty stiff and upright. He just physically doesn't look like he can move all that functionally.

yeah, don't see how anyone could watch him play and come to this conclusion. You want to say you don't believe in his shot? Fine. Questioning his athleticism and physicality? He's shown damn near elite burst, really good power and there's some wiggle (albeit not great) to his game. If he measures near 6'7" barefoot and has a decent wingspan he should be a top 5 lock imo.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Yes or No? Holland statistically was better this year than Scoot was in the Gleague?

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ron-holland--scoot-henderson

I just don't really understand how 1 guy is older, playing his 2nd year in the league and less productive was a #1 pick type of talent most years. While the other guy is bigger, younger, 1st year in league and more productive is not even a lock to be a top 10 pick in this draft.

Are we just that done with the Gleague after how much Scoot has disappointed?

absolutely a fair question. bigger, more productive across the board and bigger. should be a no brainer. but here is the answer to your question - it's stupid, but it's the truth.

at some point a couple years ago when Scoot was in the g league as a 17 just turning 18 year old, the "experts" decided he was NEXT. they saw a 17 year old with a grown man's body who was athletic and hanging with grown men. they decided he was the next big thing and after that, nothing else mattered (unless you were 7'5" with guard skills). it didn't matter if you were 6'7" and athletic AF with a motor that wouldn't stop (Amen was basically a 6'7" version of Scoot for crying out loud and that's being kind to Scoot). for many it didn't matter, if you were an athletic 6'9", could shoot the **** out the ball and were one of the best players in the SEC as a frosh. it didn't matter that Scoot didn't get any taller and still couldn't shoot. it was already decided, enough people bought in, that was that and there was no chance he was slipping past three - Miller had to pull the upset at the last second on Charlotte's board and sneak in at #2.

Holland didn't get the same traction/momentum/hype as a 17 year old and here we are.

tl;dr - scoot got early hype, people ignored what actually took place on the court and boom.

this is a damn impressive explanation of how narratives, created by "experts" are born and fostered and once you become part of that machine, perpetuating said narrative, like with Scoot, like with draft classes, you become incapable of shifting away from it due to pride and ego

[RyugaFan]

Holland's pretty stiff and upright. He just physically doesn't look like he can move all that functionally.

yeah, don't see how anyone could watch him play and come to this conclusion. You want to say you don't believe in his shot? Fine. Questioning his athleticism and physicality? He's shown damn near elite burst, really good power and there's some wiggle (albeit not great) to his game. If he measures near 6'7" barefoot and has a decent wingspan he should be a top 5 lock imo.

Being stiff doesn't necessarily mean you aren't athletic, it could just limit you to some degree, like Kawhi is stiff

[BigGargamel]

I haven't taken Holland out of my top five all year. The G-League disaster has been a disservice, but are there really 8 to 10 guys you'd rather take over Holland? Definitely not Buzelis.

Even if he's a Jerami Grant type role player, I am pretty confident that he will be an asset.

[JMAC3]

Here is an expanded view on Holland vs the other successful Gleague Ignite guys over the years.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=matas-buzelis--ron-holland--jalen-green--jonathan-kuminga--scoot-henderson

2nd youngest
1st in scoring
1st in steals
2nd in assists

But he might be the lowest selected of the 5? We really do overthink production way too often especially when players are young.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Scoot was viewed as largely coasting through his last season for the G-League Ignite while Green and Kuminga had elite tools.

Holland is viewed as a mediocre athlete who played with his hair on fire and still sucked.

I don't understand the Matas thing other than people tricking themselves into thinking Matas can shoot because he's white.

[babyjax13]

Scoot was viewed as largely coasting through his last season for the G-League Ignite while Green and Kuminga had elite tools.

Holland is viewed as a mediocre athlete who played with his hair on fire and still sucked.

I don't understand the Matas thing other than people tricking themselves into thinking Matas can shoot because he's white.

I don't see many places that view Holland as a mediocre athlete. He has some weird physical attributes (wing size but sometimes a bit awkward in his movement) but as a run-jump athlete he should be ... at worst ... above average. Though, I suspect he's better than that. He also plays really, really hard. His problem is that he lacks some fundamental skills that you want a wing to have, especially shooting. Some team is going to decide they can teach that stuff to someone with good physical attributes who plays that hard, the question will be how good of a bet that is? I think it is worth a dice roll for a team, I just prefer it not to be mine

[Hal14]

Holland's pretty stiff and upright. He just physically doesn't look like he can move all that functionally.

[JMAC3]

Scoot was viewed as largely coasting through his last season for the G-League Ignite while Green and Kuminga had elite tools.

Holland is viewed as a mediocre athlete who played with his hair on fire and still sucked.

I don't understand the Matas thing other than people tricking themselves into thinking Matas can shoot because he's white.

I don't see many places that view Holland as a mediocre athlete. He has some weird physical attributes (wing size but sometimes a bit awkward in his movement) but as a run-jump athlete he should be ... at worst ... above average. Though, I suspect he's better than that. He also plays really, really hard. His problem is that he lacks some fundamental skills that you want a wing to have, especially shooting. Some team is going to decide they can teach that stuff to someone with good physical attributes who plays that hard, the question will be how good of a bet that is? I think it is worth a dice roll for a team, I just prefer it not to be mine

Still think Jaylen Brown makes a ton of sense as a comp, maybe he doesn't reach that ceiling but great body, great work ethic and already showcasing 2 way skills that people loved with Brown.

[tester551]

Scoot was viewed as largely coasting through his last season for the G-League Ignite while Green and Kuminga had elite tools.

Holland is viewed as a mediocre athlete who played with his hair on fire and still sucked.

I don't understand the Matas thing other than people tricking themselves into thinking Matas can shoot because he's white.

I don't see many places that view Holland as a mediocre athlete. He has some weird physical attributes (wing size but sometimes a bit awkward in his movement) but as a run-jump athlete he should be ... at worst ... above average. Though, I suspect he's better than that. He also plays really, really hard. His problem is that he lacks some fundamental skills that you want a wing to have, especially shooting. Some team is going to decide they can teach that stuff to someone with good physical attributes who plays that hard, the question will be how good of a bet that is? I think it is worth a dice roll for a team, I just prefer it not to be mine

This is the most difficult skill to teach. I'd rather bet on someone like Holland who has that skill in spades than someone who passively floats through a game.

Portland is struggling with that issue with Sharpe. He has immense talent, but he's just so damn passive.

[RyugaFan]

Scoot was viewed as largely coasting through his last season for the G-League Ignite while Green and Kuminga had elite tools.

Holland is viewed as a mediocre athlete who played with his hair on fire and still sucked.

I don't understand the Matas thing other than people tricking themselves into thinking Matas can shoot because he's white.

Yeah Holland needing to go all out every possession to get his points isn't a bonus. The game doesn't come naturally or effortlessly to him.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Scoot was viewed as largely coasting through his last season for the G-League Ignite while Green and Kuminga had elite tools.

Holland is viewed as a mediocre athlete who played with his hair on fire and still sucked.

I don't understand the Matas thing other than people tricking themselves into thinking Matas can shoot because he's white.

I don't see many places that view Holland as a mediocre athlete. He has some weird physical attributes (wing size but sometimes a bit awkward in his movement) but as a run-jump athlete he should be ... at worst ... above average. Though, I suspect he's better than that. He also plays really, really hard. His problem is that he lacks some fundamental skills that you want a wing to have, especially shooting. Some team is going to decide they can teach that stuff to someone with good physical attributes who plays that hard, the question will be how good of a bet that is? I think it is worth a dice roll for a team, I just prefer it not to be mine

Still think Jaylen Brown makes a ton of sense as a comp, maybe he doesn't reach that ceiling but great body, great work ethic and already showcasing 2 way skills that people loved with Brown.

talent wise that's a decent comp. We've got to wait and see how Holland measures and performs at the combine and workouts. I think he's got a solid 2 inches on Brown in height but Brown has him in wingspan I believe. Holland already has a better handle, BBIQ and is a better passer but Brown, even in college, despite the end result, had really nice shooting touch. Verticals are probably similar with an edge to Brown. I think if Holland shoots well in his workouts he could be in play for #1. If not, he could fall out of the top 5 imo.

[JMAC3]

Scoot was viewed as largely coasting through his last season for the G-League Ignite while Green and Kuminga had elite tools.

Holland is viewed as a mediocre athlete who played with his hair on fire and still sucked.

I don't understand the Matas thing other than people tricking themselves into thinking Matas can shoot because he's white.

Yeah Holland needing to go all out every possession to get his points isn't a bonus. The game doesn't come naturally or effortlessly to him.

Yeah would be way cooler if he played at half speed and averaged 13 ppg then trying really hard to score 19ppg... Red flag lol

[RyugaFan]

Scoot was viewed as largely coasting through his last season for the G-League Ignite while Green and Kuminga had elite tools.

Holland is viewed as a mediocre athlete who played with his hair on fire and still sucked.

I don't understand the Matas thing other than people tricking themselves into thinking Matas can shoot because he's white.

Yeah Holland needing to go all out every possession to get his points isn't a bonus. The game doesn't come naturally or effortlessly to him.

Yeah would be way cooler if he played at half speed and averaged 13 ppg then trying really hard to score 19ppg... Red flag lol

19ppg at half speed would be cooler.

[JMAC3]

Yeah Holland needing to go all out every possession to get his points isn't a bonus. The game doesn't come naturally or effortlessly to him.

Yeah would be way cooler if he played at half speed and averaged 13 ppg then trying really hard to score 19ppg... Red flag lol

19ppg at half speed would be cooler.

30 ppg at 1/3 speed is really the only way I would draft him, dude is a try hard. Give me sleepy Beasley energy or don't show up at the gym.

[Diop]

Scoot was viewed as largely coasting through his last season for the G-League Ignite while Green and Kuminga had elite tools.

Holland is viewed as a mediocre athlete who played with his hair on fire and still sucked.

I don't understand the Matas thing other than people tricking themselves into thinking Matas can shoot because he's white.

I don't see many places that view Holland as a mediocre athlete. He has some weird physical attributes (wing size but sometimes a bit awkward in his movement) but as a run-jump athlete he should be ... at worst ... above average. Though, I suspect he's better than that. He also plays really, really hard. His problem is that he lacks some fundamental skills that you want a wing to have, especially shooting. Some team is going to decide they can teach that stuff to someone with good physical attributes who plays that hard, the question will be how good of a bet that is? I think it is worth a dice roll for a team, I just prefer it not to be mine

Still think Jaylen Brown makes a ton of sense as a comp, maybe he doesn't reach that ceiling but great body, great work ethic and already showcasing 2 way skills that people loved with Brown.

sounds a bit like Crash as well, which does get my juices flowing

[babyjax13]

I don't see many places that view Holland as a mediocre athlete. He has some weird physical attributes (wing size but sometimes a bit awkward in his movement) but as a run-jump athlete he should be ... at worst ... above average. Though, I suspect he's better than that. He also plays really, really hard. His problem is that he lacks some fundamental skills that you want a wing to have, especially shooting. Some team is going to decide they can teach that stuff to someone with good physical attributes who plays that hard, the question will be how good of a bet that is? I think it is worth a dice roll for a team, I just prefer it not to be mine

Still think Jaylen Brown makes a ton of sense as a comp, maybe he doesn't reach that ceiling but great body, great work ethic and already showcasing 2 way skills that people loved with Brown.

sounds a bit like Crash as well, which does get my juices flowing

I don't think he's got that kind of size.

[Diop]

Still think Jaylen Brown makes a ton of sense as a comp, maybe he doesn't reach that ceiling but great body, great work ethic and already showcasing 2 way skills that people loved with Brown.

sounds a bit like Crash as well, which does get my juices flowing

I don't think he's got that kind of size.

crash was more elite athlete as well