Kyle Filipowski

Post #41 » by **Duke4life831** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 5:18 pm

What is his role in the NBA that makes him worth taking in the 1st? Dont get me wrong, I love the dude and he is my favorite guy on this Duke team. But right now he kind of screams stud college player and pretty meh NBA prospect. 28% from 3 last year and 27% from 3 so far this year. His passing has looked better this year, but I still dont view his passing as a big plus for him. His movements and agility seem pretty similar to last year. So not seeing any kind of big progression there after all the hype over the summer about how much better he is moving after the hip surgery. He really is only effective scoring at the rim. 2pt jumper % is real bad (25%) to go with his bad 3pt shooting. I dont see the agility on the level of a Lauri.

I dont know, I guess my closest comp would be a slightly slower but taller Moe Wagner. A guy Id take in the 2nd round and hope he either gets the jumper down or he becomes an energizer bunny like Moe has become.

EvanZ · Post #42 » by **EvanZ** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 5:54 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:What is his role in the NBA that makes him worth taking in the 1st? Dont get me wrong, I love the dude and he is my favorite guy on this Duke team. But right now he kind of screams stud college player and pretty meh NBA prospect. 28% from 3 last year and 27% from 3 so far this year. His passing has looked better this year, but I still dont view his passing as a big plus for him. His movements and agility seem pretty similar to last year. So not seeing any kind of big progression there after all the hype over the summer about how much better he is moving after the hip surgery. He really is only effective scoring at the rim. 2pt jumper % is real bad (25%) to go with his bad 3pt shooting. I dont see the agility on the level of a Lauri.

I dont know, I guess my closest comp would be a slightly slower but taller Moe Wagner. A guy Id take in the 2nd round and hope he either gets the jumper down or he becomes an energizer bunny like Moe has become.

Hopefully the shooting comes around. I certainly was expecting it to. Still...14.5 BPM is crazy high. I personally just think he's a good basketball player. Think about this. A big with 30% usg that has a TOV% under 7%. That is unheard of. (Clingan is close!)

Post #43 » by **Duke4life831** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 6:05 pm

EvanZ wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:What is his role in the NBA that makes him worth taking in the 1st? Dont get me wrong, I love the dude and he is my favorite guy on this Duke team. But right now he kind of screams stud college player and pretty meh NBA prospect. 28% from 3 last year and 27% from 3 so far this year. His passing has looked better this year, but I still dont view his passing as a big plus for him. His movements and agility seem pretty similar to last year. So not seeing any kind of big progression there after all the hype over the summer about how much better he is moving after the hip surgery. He really is only effective scoring at the rim. 2pt jumper % is real bad (25%) to go with his bad 3pt shooting. I dont see the agility on the level of a Lauri.

I dont know, I guess my closest comp would be a slightly slower but taller Moe Wagner. A guy Id take in the 2nd round and hope he either gets the jumper down or he becomes an energizer bunny like Moe has become.

Hopefully the shooting comes around. I certainly was expecting it to. Still...14.5 BPM is crazy high. I personally just think he's a good basketball player. Think about this. A big with 30% usg that has a TOV% under 7%. That is unheard of. (Clingan is close!)

My thing with this though, is how much of it is translatable to the NBA? Dont get me wrong, I think Flip is a stud college player. He has basically been the only positive this season for Duke so far.

But again what is his role in the NBA? We arent even talking projecting an average college shooting big to become a positive shooter in the NBA. We are talking about a bad college shooting big. And outside of a pick and pop 5, how are you going to use him? I dont want him chasing guys around out on the perimeter, he doesnt have the agility for that. He's a good defensive rebounder, but not elite. He's a solid passer but again wouldnt mark that down as a big plus for him.

Im just looking at him right now and trying to see what will translate and how he will be used. Wagner just seems to be the guy I keep going back to. Inconsistent jumper, solid rebounder, plays real hard.

clyde21 · Post #44 » by **clyde21** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 6:25 pm

BigGargamel wrote:I have Filipowski as my first true center off the board

True center?

What makes Flip a center in the NBA?

Hal14 · Post #45 » by **Hal14** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 6:29 pm

clyde21 wrote:
BigGargamel wrote:I have Filipowski as my first true center off the board

True center?

What makes Flip a center in the NBA?

Cause he's 7 feet tall, can rebound well, scores near the basket well.

He can shoot and pass pretty well..can handle the ball pretty well, take his man off the bounce a bit - things that teams in the modern NBA look for in a center.

Teams typically look for more mobility/athleticism in a 4, so he might be playing more of his mins in the NBA at the 5..

I think there were similar discussions on here a couple years ago about Sengun, about whether he was a 4 or a 5. Turns out, he's a 5 in the NBA. And Flip is taller than Sengun..

clyde21 · Post #46 » by **clyde21** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 6:32 pm

lol it's not about height...Alpy works as a 5 in the NBA because he gets used a point 5...if he didn't have those passing chops he'd be coming off the bench.

Flip hypothetically is a stretch four or a combo big...not a "true center"

Chuck Everett · Post #47 » by **Chuck Everett** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 7:17 pm

How can he start at center and not protect the rim in any capacity? What team would willing to waste a first rounder on that? You only do that if you think he can be like Sengun or Sabonis as an offensive hub? Do you really see that kind of talent in Filipowski?

Seems like the national reporters are (finally) becoming hip to the fact that Lively covered up a lot of his deficiencies on the defensive end.

Hal14 · Post #48 » by **Hal14** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 7:23 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:What is his role in the NBA that makes him worth taking in the 1st? Dont get me wrong, I love the dude and he is my favorite guy on this Duke team. But right now he kind of screams stud college player and pretty meh NBA prospect. 28% from 3 last year and 27% from 3 so far this year. His passing has looked better this year, but I still dont view his passing as a big plus for him. His movements and agility seem pretty similar to last year. So not seeing any kind of big progression there after all the hype over the summer about how much better he is moving after the hip surgery. He really is only effective scoring at the rim. 2pt jumper % is real bad (25%) to go with his bad 3pt shooting. I dont see the agility on the level of a Lauri.

I dont know, I guess my closest comp would be a slightly slower but taller Moe Wagner. A guy Id take in the 2nd round and hope he either gets the jumper down or he becomes an energizer bunny like Moe has become.

Hopefully the shooting comes around. I certainly was expecting it to. Still...14.5 BPM is crazy high. I personally just think he's a good basketball player. Think about this. A big with 30% usg that has a TOV% under 7%. That is unheard of. (Clingan is close!)

My thing with this though, is how much of it is translatable to the NBA? Dont get me wrong, I think Flip is a stud college player. He has basically been the only positive this season for Duke so far.

But again what is his role in the NBA? We arent even talking projecting an average college shooting big to become a positive shooter in the NBA. We are talking about a bad college shooting big. And outside of a pick and pop 5, how are you going to use him? I dont want him chasing guys around out on the perimeter, he doesnt have the agility for that. He's a good defensive rebounder, but not elite. He's a solid passer but again wouldnt mark that down as a big plus for him.

Im just looking at him right now and trying to see what will translate and how he will be used. Wagner just seems to be the guy I keep going back to. Inconsistent jumper, solid rebounder, plays real hard.

I think if the 3 pt shot was more consistent and if there was more of a defined role, you're looking at a top 10 pick.

I have Flip 14 on my board right now. And partly because it's a weaker draft class at the top - he'd be a few spots lower in a stronger class.

But I think (at least in this class) I'll take the chance on him at 14. You roll the dice in that spot and hope that the combination of size + ball skills + footwork + production at a young age and vs tough competition is enough..and you roll the dice and hope the outside shot translates and gets better.

I think there is reason for optimism with regards to his shooting improvement at the enxt level for a couple of reasons.

First is this:

Read on Twitter

Second, a scaled down role in the NBA would likely help his efficiency. Right now, Flip is Duke's no. 1 option. He was the no. 1 option last season too. That means he has to shoulder more of the offensive burden. Opposing teams gear their defense around stopping him..teams try their best to make Flip take shots that are as difficult as possible.

That's VERY different than what his NBA role will be. He'll have more space, less defensive attention on him. It'll be much easier, more open looks, more catch and shoot looks, less off the dribble, less shots that are late in the shot clock (your primary option is usually the guy taking those shots late in the shot clock, late in the game with more pressure and the defense loaded up on them..).

EvanZ · Post #49 » by **EvanZ** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 8:00 pm

I mean he's shooting 60% TS on 30% USG. It doesn't get much better than that for a 7-footer who's shooting a lot.

EvanZ · Post #50 » by **EvanZ** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 8:02 pm

Chuck Everett wrote:How can he start at center and not protect the rim in any capacity? What team would willing to waste a first rounder on that? You only do that if you think he can be like Sengun or Sabonis as an offensive hub? Do you really see that kind of talent in Filipowski?

He's averaging 1.9 blk/g which is 7.4% BLK%. He's not Walker Kessler, but to say he can't "protect the rim in any capacity" seems...wrong?

EvanZ · Post #51 » by **EvanZ** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 8:04 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:What is his role in the NBA that makes him worth taking in the 1st? Dont get me wrong, I love the dude and he is my favorite guy on this Duke team. But right now he kind of screams stud college player and pretty meh NBA prospect. 28% from 3 last year and 27% from 3 so far this year. His passing has looked better this year, but I still dont view his passing as a big plus for him. His movements and agility seem pretty similar to last year. So not seeing any kind of big progression there after all the hype over the summer about how much better he is moving after the hip surgery. He really is only effective scoring at the rim. 2pt jumper % is real bad (25%) to go with his bad 3pt shooting. I dont see the agility on the level of a Lauri.

I dont know, I guess my closest comp would be a slightly slower but taller Moe Wagner. A guy Id take in the 2nd round and hope he either gets the jumper down or he becomes an energizer bunny like Moe has become.

Hopefully the shooting comes around. I certainly was expecting it to. Still...14.5 BPM is crazy high. I personally just think he's a good basketball player. Think about this. A big with 30% usg that has a TOV% under 7%. That is unheard of. (Clingan is close!)

My thing with this though, is how much of it is translatable to the NBA? Dont get me wrong, I think Flip is a stud college player. He has basically been the only positive this season for Duke so far.

I mean shooting and ball handling is translatable especially when you're a 7-footer.

azcatz11 · Post #52 » by **azcatz11** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 8:06 pm

EvanZ wrote:
Chuck Everett wrote:How can he start at center and not protect the rim in any capacity? What team would willing to waste a first rounder on that? You only do that if you think he can be like Sengun or Sabonis as an offensive hub? Do you really see that kind of talent in Filipowski?

He's averaging 1.9 blk/g which is 7.4% BLK%. He's not Walker Kessler, but to say he can't "protect the rim in any capacity" seems...wrong?

Do you even watch Duke games? He’s not a rim protector in any capacity. I’ve seen every game they’ve played and he’s a negative on defense at the next level. Hes basically a homeless man al horford type prospect. If the shot comes around he’s a first rounder but he has to shoot 40% or above in college for that to translate.

Chuck Everett · Post #53 » by **Chuck Everett** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 8:21 pm

EvanZ wrote:
Chuck Everett wrote:How can he start at center and not protect the rim in any capacity? What team would willing to waste a first rounder on that? You only do that if you think he can be like Sengun or Sabonis as an offensive hub? Do you really see that kind of talent in Filipowski?

He's averaging 1.9 blk/g which is 7.4% BLK%. He's not Walker Kessler, but to say he can't "protect the rim in any capacity" seems...wrong?

Those numbers are completely fradulent when projecting to the NBA level. Zach Collins was a shotblocking machine at Gonzaga and he doesn't protect the rim at all in the NBA. Kyle's length and athleticism are too poor to do it at the NBA level. Shelden Williams and Calvin Booth were the same. Horrible NBA shotblockers.

EvanZ · Post #54 » by **EvanZ** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 8:28 pm

azcatz11 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Chuck Everett wrote:How can he start at center and not protect the rim in any capacity? What team would willing to waste a first rounder on that? You only do that if you think he can be like Sengun or Sabonis as an offensive hub? Do you really see that kind of talent in Filipowski?

He's averaging 1.9 blk/g which is 7.4% BLK%. He's not Walker Kessler, but to say he can't "protect the rim in any capacity" seems...wrong?

Do you even watch Duke games? He’s not a rim protector in any capacity. I’ve seen every game they’ve played and he’s a negative on defense at the next level. Hes basically a homeless man al horford type prospect. If the shot comes around he’s a first rounder but he has to shoot 40% or above in college for that to translate.

Do you even lift bro lol

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EvanZ · Post #55 » by **EvanZ** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 8:36 pm

Sengun doesn't shoot or protect the rim "in any capacity" and yet he probably goes top 5 in a re-draft right now. Sabonis also doesn't shoot or defend the rim or really defend at all. I think Flip moves better than both those guys and should shoot better than either of them. To me his handle and passing are really the swing skills here that will differentiate him from a rando big in the NBA. If you're try ing to box him into a traditional big man role, you're doing it wrong. I see the potential for a hub.

Hal14 · Post #56 » by **Hal14** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 8:41 pm

Chuck Everett wrote:How can he start at center and not protect the rim in any capacity? What team would willing to waste a first rounder on that? You only do that if you think he can be like Sengun or Sabonis as an offensive hub? Do you really see that kind of talent in Filipowski?

First off, Flip has a 7.4 blocks % right now so saying he can't protect the rim in any capacity is laughable. It was lower last season but that was when he was playing with 2 bad hips and had Lively next to him blocking all the shots.

Secondly, I am not aware of any rule that a starting center has to either be a Sabonis-level offenisve hub or be a rim protector. I mean, which one of those is Al Horford? Zubac? Plumlee? Marc Gasol? How about Tristan Thompson, who started for the Cavs NBA finals team? Or Kevon Looney, who started for the warriors nba title team?

Thirdly, who says he even has to be center? More likely, he's a guy who can play some at the 4 and some at the 5. Teams love that type of versatility.

Lastly, you seem to be implying that either he's a starter or is a waste of a 1st round pick..why? The Celtics took Grant williams in the 1st round. He played in Boston for 3 years. Was never a full-time starter but was a solid contributor each of the 3 years. Helped that team win a lot of games - even playoff games. Came up huge in a game 7 to help on their road to the NBA finals. Do you think that was a waste of a 1st round pick? Kings took Davion Mitchell 9th pick, even though they had Fox and Haliburton. They knew that a 3rd guard, someone to come in off the bench, give Fox and Hali a breather and fill in during games where 1 (or both) of them is out is a very valuable piece to a team looking to make the playoffs.

Dyson Daniels has mostly come off the bench in New Orleans. Now that CJ is healthy, he might never be a full time starter there. But they took him with the 8th pick, because again (similar to sacramento) a guy who could come off the bench, play defense, hit some shots, bring some energy, bring versatility, make winning plays and occasionally start if you got guys out with injury - that's a valuable piece for a team looking to contend for the playoffs.

Christian Braun. Came off the bench last season, coming off the this season but playing a key role for the Nuggets who won the title last season and could win it again this season. Was he a waste of a 1st round pick? Of course not.

Guys like Hartenstein and Naz Reid. Solid backup bigs. Not starters - not a waste of a 1st round pick.

I could go on..

Post #57 » by **Duke4life831** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 8:52 pm

EvanZ wrote:Sengun doesn't shoot or protect the rim "in any capacity" and yet he probably goes top 5 in a re-draft right now. Sabonis also doesn't shoot or defend the rim or really defend at all. I think Flip moves better than both those guys and should shoot better than either of them. To me his handle and passing are really the swing skills here that will differentiate him from a rando big in the NBA. If you're try ing to box him into a traditional big man role, you're doing it wrong. I see the potential for a hub.

I agree with you on if you project him on being a hub, he is worth a higher pick. I personally don’t project him on being that. I don’t buy his shot ever becoming a big weapon and I don’t think his facilitating will be on a level good enough to be a hub.

Hal14 · Post #58 » by **Hal14** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 9:00 pm

azcatz11 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Chuck Everett wrote:How can he start at center and not protect the rim in any capacity? What team would willing to waste a first rounder on that? You only do that if you think he can be like Sengun or Sabonis as an offensive hub? Do you really see that kind of talent in Filipowski?

He's averaging 1.9 blk/g which is 7.4% BLK%. He's not Walker Kessler, but to say he can't "protect the rim in any capacity" seems...wrong?

Do you even watch Duke games? He’s not a rim protector in any capacity. I’ve seen every game they’ve played and he’s a negative on defense at the next level. Hes basically a homeless man al horford type prospect. If the shot comes around he’s a first rounder but he has to shoot 40% or above in college for that to translate.

Funny you mention Al Horford..he shot 0% from 3 on 0.1 3PA/40 mins his last year before getting drafted..yet went on to become one of the league's best 3 pt shooters. Wow!

Pretty much all of these guys ended up being good shooters in the NBA. And all of them became good NBA players. Yet only 1 of them shot 40% from 3 on decent volume prior to being drafted.

Read on Twitter

I already posted this higher up on the page..but apparently you didn't read it..

azcatz11 · Post #59 » by **azcatz11** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 10:03 pm

So your referencing a random twitter with random players trying to prove he will be a good 3 pt shooter based off this? I don’t see any connection or any relevance

Chuck Everett · Post #60 » by **Chuck Everett** » Wed Dec 6, 2023 10:09 pm

You want to take him with a 2nd round pick, I am fine with that. In the lotto, I'm not. All of his upside would have to be skilled wise because with shaky hips, it definitely isn't going to be physical.

And I just don't see some overwhelming offensive skill coming out of this guy.