Stephon Castle

[EvanZ]

In today's game, guys who don't shoot at least league-average don't get much playing time. Floor spacing is just that important.

what did kawhi shoot from three as a frosh? as a sophomore? Castle is a 76% FT shooter so it's not as if he's hopeless. he's 19. 19 year olds improve. of course it's a risk drafting him over say, somebody like Jakobe Walter, from a shooting standpoint, but he does other things better than Walter. there isn't a prospect in the draft without risk.

the biggest mistake draft geeks or actual experts make is forgetting guys improve their shooting all the time, significantly, from the the time they are freshmen to their 2nd or 3rd years in the league. granted, they don't all get to where they need to be, hence the risk, but it is commonplace.

Pretty sure the biggest mistake draft casuals make is bringing up someone like Kawhi Leonard every time we talk about bad shooters. As if every bad shooter is likely to become a great shooter immediately.

The thing is someone like Castle, or the Thompson twins, or Anthony Black or Kuminga or countless others who can't shoot, they have to get on the floor and make an impact without shooting.

I never assume a guy will just immediately become a good shooter if he isn't already one. But the guys who can get on the court regardless of shooting because they are good enough at many other things have the necessary chance/opportunity to improve shooting *over time*.

So ask yourself the question, is Castle a good enough player that will get 20+ mpg even if he can't shoot right away? If you think so, then you should be high on him. If you don't think so, you probably shouldn't be that high on him. If you think he will immediately become a great shooter like Kawhi, you probably should find another hobby.

[JMAC3]

Castle is probably Okoro, if he proves he has more juice on the ball and can at least be a volume outside shooter then maybe you fall into Marcus Smart. Either way he has value but I think trying to project him anymore than that is too big of a reach based on what we have seen on tape.

[hickfromfrenchlick]

This guy kind of stinks. He can't shoot the ball and he's not some elite slasher/driving athlete to make up for it. The steal rate is also historically low for a defense first prospect.

So you don't watch college basketball, got it.

I don't even know where to begin to point out everything wrong in your comment but if I could give it a shot: (1) he needs to improve his shooting and he will, his stroke is smooth; (2) yeah he is, dude; (3) he plays lockdown man defense, he doesn't gamble; (4) he was the 4th/5th option for most of the year, you can throw his stats out the window.

"This guy kind of stinks" is the dumbest thing I've read on RealGM in weeks, so props to you for hurtling that high bar.

[hickfromfrenchlick]

There's nothing suggesting Castle can be better than Derrick White and White is his absolute best case scenario.

Castle this year was an 8/10 defender who wasn't defended by the opposing team at any point this season. There was nothing at all to suggest stardom and essentially zero flashes of it any point. Castle's appeal is that he's OK enough at PG to play PG and he's a huge PG so he can't be victimized in the postseason like most PGs in the NBA. This is very useful if he can bomb threes and is not useful otherwise.

Like, we're talking about a guy who averaged 11/3 on average efficiency while not being guarded at any point this season.

And he has no athletic upside at all because his frame is complete.

8/10 defender????? Do you have eyes?

Shannon was averaging 30 ppg in the tournament. Castle shut him down. He drew the toughest draw every game he played. and played his guy1-on-1 without help, irrespective of whether they were a 6'0" speedster or a 6'7" wing.

You want to say you don't know if he can develop a reliable 3-point shot? OK. But don't go making stuff up. He could literally guard 1-5 (Edey excepting).

Funny how there was nothing to suggest stardom to you but there is to every front office in the league. Why aren't you a GM?

[hickfromfrenchlick]

Comes down to shooting for him. Is he Okoro or something better?

100%. Though, I don't think he's anywhere near as hopeless as a guy like Okoro. I just think he lacks confidence. He knows he's got much better shooters around him so he takes a backseat to them. It's frustrating because you can see him overthinking. He had two threes go half-way down in this game which is a shame. He shoots it well from deep with great rotation and rarely misses badly. I think it's just confidence. As far his FT shooting his whole set up sucks. But again, great rotation and touch. I do love how he's really good on defense and can run an offense and rebound. He does all the little things. Holiday and Butler are solid comps. I think he'll go anywhere from 5-14

First of all, he was hurt early in the season and missed time.

Second, he was a freshman playing for the defending champion.

So he was tentative. He showed a lot more confidence as the season went on. Alabama dared him to shoot in the Final 4 and he jammed 2 quick 3s down their throats.

Not you -- but some people in this thread are looking at box scores and exposing themselves.

As a UConn fan, from the minute he stepped on the floor I knew he was a 1-and-done. He's an NBA player. No idea what he'll actually accomplish but the suggestion that he can't create or shoot or whatever is dumb as hell. But not as dumb as the guy saying that he didn't have enough steals. He doesn't gamble, he just locks down his guy. This isn't fantasy basketball my dude. This is winning basketball. McDonald's All-American swallowed his ego and suppressed his numbers so that knuckleheads on a message board could criticize his stats. Good things for Castle front offices actually watch the games.

[JustBuzzin]

Comes down to shooting for him. Is he Okoro or something better?

100%. Though, I don't think he's anywhere near as hopeless as a guy like Okoro. I just think he lacks confidence. He knows he's got much better shooters around him so he takes a backseat to them. It's frustrating because you can see him overthinking. He had two threes go half-way down in this game which is a shame. He shoots it well from deep with great rotation and rarely misses badly. I think it's just confidence. As far his FT shooting his whole set up sucks. But again, great rotation and touch. I do love how he's really good on defense and can run an offense and rebound. He does all the little things. Holiday and Butler are solid comps. I think he'll go anywhere from 5-14

First of all, he was hurt early in the season and missed time.

Second, he was a freshman playing for the defending champion.

So he was tentative. He showed a lot more confidence as the season went on. Alabama dared him to shoot in the Final 4 and he jammed 2 quick 3s down their throats.

Not you -- but some people in this thread are looking at box scores and exposing themselves.

As a UConn fan, from the minute he stepped on the floor I knew he was a 1-and-done. He's an NBA player. No idea what he'll actually accomplish but the suggestion that he can't create or shoot or whatever is dumb as hell. But not as dumb as the guy saying that he didn't have enough steals. He doesn't gamble, he just locks down his guy. This isn't fantasy basketball my dude. This is winning basketball. McDonald's All-American swallowed his ego and suppressed his numbers so that knuckleheads on a message board could criticize his stats. Good things for Castle front offices actually watch the games.

Just being honest there is no star in this draft at least from my opinion. I think this draft will be full of quality role players. To me Castle is the best fit for my team. I have him #1 on my board because I like his potential playing next to Melo and Miller. We need someone to set the tone on defense and Castle is going to play defense from day 1. His offense is a work in progress, but all the other skills are there.

[TGW]

Saying castle can’t shoot is “stupid”? No that’s just reality. What an odd take.

[esvl]

I am old enough to remember pre-draft discussions around shooting deficiencies of Scottie Barnes and Franz Wagner.

[hickfromfrenchlick]

Saying castle can’t shoot is “stupid”? No that’s just reality. What an odd take.

Saying he didn’t shoot a high percentage on jump shots in his one year in college would be reality. Saying you are doubtful he will be a good shooter in the NBA is a reasonable opinion. Saying he “can’t shoot” is an absolute statement, and a dumb one. Like ever? He shot 76% from the line, he’s been streaky, and he’s got very nice touch. He needs reps. I’m not saying he’s going to be a good shooter; it’s a question mark, not something that’s obvious. If scouts thought he can’t be a decent shooter, he wouldn’t be projected where he is.

[RyugaFan]

This guy kind of stinks. He can't shoot the ball and he's not some elite slasher/driving athlete to make up for it. The steal rate is also historically low for a defense first prospect.

So you don't watch college basketball, got it.

I don't even know where to begin to point out everything wrong in your comment but if I could give it a shot: (1) he needs to improve his shooting and he will, his stroke is smooth; (2) yeah he is, dude; (3) he plays lockdown man defense, he doesn't gamble; (4) he was the 4th/5th option for most of the year, you can throw his stats out the window.

"This guy kind of stinks" is the dumbest thing I've read on RealGM in weeks, so props to you for hurtling that high bar.

Lmao. No actually being bad matters even if you're last in the pecking order. He's very clearly an average athlete right now, with no first step or verticality at the rim, which is only gonna be compounded by NBA defender playing off of him. The defense is fine but not elite, he doesn't get around screens well and he gets no stocks(which again,every elite NBA defender got stocks in college). Any team drafting him has to pray to god the jumper comes very soon or he's going to bust.

[Chuck Everett]

This guy kind of stinks. He can't shoot the ball and he's not some elite slasher/driving athlete to make up for it. The steal rate is also historically low for a defense first prospect.

So you don't watch college basketball, got it.

I don't even know where to begin to point out everything wrong in your comment but if I could give it a shot: (1) he needs to improve his shooting and he will, his stroke is smooth; (2) yeah he is, dude; (3) he plays lockdown man defense, he doesn't gamble; (4) he was the 4th/5th option for most of the year, you can throw his stats out the window.

"This guy kind of stinks" is the dumbest thing I've read on RealGM in weeks, so props to you for hurtling that high bar.

Lmao. No actually being bad matters even if you're last in the pecking order. He's very clearly an average athlete right now, with no first step or verticality at the rim, which is only gonna be compounded by NBA defender playing off of him. The defense is fine but not elite, he doesn't get around screens well and he gets no stocks(which again,every elite NBA defender got stocks in college). Any team drafting him has to pray to god the jumper comes very soon or he's going to bust.

The athleticism comment is interesting because in the NBA, there is way more space for drives than the college game. UConn wasn't as good of a three point shooting team this season (losing Jordan Hawkins, Alleyne and Joey C will do that), so on the right NBA team, with the floor spaced, Castle's ability to get downhill will be utilized much better. I am pretty confident in saying that.

[MasterIchiro]

I don't consider UConn's winning ways the thing that makes Castle a winning player at the next level.

He's a winning player because he makes winning plays on both ends. He makes the right decision so often for a freshman, in an era when maybe players considered more talented forever do dumb things at the next level that cost wins.

Scouts must account for decision-making, beyond data captured by stats. Was the pass the right pass in a given situation even if it didn't result in an assist? Was the shot a good shot even if it didn't fall or did Steph look off a teammate in better position to shoot, more wide open? Should he have drove all the way to the rim because his kickout resulted in a missed 3?

I have the privilege of rooting for a smart team filled with smart, experienced players (UConn) and a low BBIQ team in the Charlotte Hornets.

At some point you can distinguish between a player who makes winning plays and can be coached up (Castle) and a freaking idiot going iso when he has no business, trying to salvage his NBA career (Bryce McGowens, JT Thor) or a mediocre or slightly above average iso player taking on 5 defenders like his idol D. Wade (Terry Rozier).

I'd celebrate the Hornets drafting Caslte 2-5. I have Topic ahead of him, another cerebral player who's wise beyond his years. The guy who demonstrates from the beginning understanding of basketball as a team sport? Those guys tranlslate.

[MasterIchiro]

I mean, you have to take all stats into account but you better have a good answer to the question of whether your selection is a team player. You can get the most out of his talent if you answer correctly.

[Kalela]

Castle is probably Okoro, if he proves he has more juice on the ball and can at least be a volume outside shooter then maybe you fall into Marcus Smart. Either way he has value but I think trying to project him anymore than that is too big of a reach based on what we have seen on tape.

lol He will be better than both of those guys even if he never learns to shoot. He is better at getting to the basket than both of those guys.

[JMAC3]

Castle is probably Okoro, if he proves he has more juice on the ball and can at least be a volume outside shooter then maybe you fall into Marcus Smart. Either way he has value but I think trying to project him anymore than that is too big of a reach based on what we have seen on tape.

lol He will be better than both of those guys even if he never learns to shoot. He is better at getting to the basket than both of those guys.

Marcus Smart averaged 18 ppg and got to the FT line 8 times a game in college…

[hickfromfrenchlick]

This guy kind of stinks. He can't shoot the ball and he's not some elite slasher/driving athlete to make up for it. The steal rate is also historically low for a defense first prospect.

So you don't watch college basketball, got it.

I don't even know where to begin to point out everything wrong in your comment but if I could give it a shot: (1) he needs to improve his shooting and he will, his stroke is smooth; (2) yeah he is, dude; (3) he plays lockdown man defense, he doesn't gamble; (4) he was the 4th/5th option for most of the year, you can throw his stats out the window.

"This guy kind of stinks" is the dumbest thing I've read on RealGM in weeks, so props to you for hurtling that high bar.

Lmao. No actually being bad matters even if you're last in the pecking order. He's very clearly an average athlete right now, with no first step or verticality at the rim, which is only gonna be compounded by NBA defender playing off of him. The defense is fine but not elite, he doesn't get around screens well and he gets no stocks(which again,every elite NBA defender got stocks in college). Any team drafting him has to pray to god the jumper comes very soon or he's going to bust.

Saying he doesn’t come around screens well just exposed you as someone who watched the Purdue game only. Yeah Edey knocked him to the floor because he’s Andre the Giant. Nobody who actually watched Castle would say what you said. He was elite at coming around screens all season long.

The shot will determine his future but talent evaluators disagree with you on everything else which is why he’s a lottery pick.

No vert?

[HadAnEffectHere]

It's just pretty hard to take Castle's defensive hype that seriously when he had the best defender in college basketball in the paint behind him.

It's a lot easier to play defense when you know your man doesn't want to get to the rim.

And he got beat a decent bit still.

Castle's lack of steals and blocks is also super alarming.

He's like a 7-8/10 on defense which is good and he's big enough at PG to not be a victim on defense which is pretty valuable.

But his appeal is "PG big enough, quick enough, and focused enough to not be victimized by postseason switch hunting" (which is very rare actually) instead of "lock down or play making defender."

[The-Power]

Castle's lack of steals and blocks is also super alarming.

While most elite defenders rack up more stocks, it's not like Castle's numbers are historically low or that there aren't examples of good perimeter defenders currently in the league who have had comparable stock numbers in college. I agree that we shouldn't expect him to be a defensive game-changer (very few players his size are) but he has a good chance to turn into a clear plus defender at POA.

[EvanZ]

I am old enough to remember pre-draft discussions around shooting deficiencies of Scottie Barnes and Franz Wagner.

1. They are both much taller than Stephon Castle and play completely different positions.
2. Have you actually looked at Barnes and Wagner's shooting %'s? Not so great man. If they weren't good at a lot of other things and if they were significantly shorter, neither would likely have nearly as much positive impact.

Again, I just have to say it's very weird the mental gymnastic people go through to prop up "their favorite guy" as opposed to admitting and seeing their obvious flaws. Castle's shooting is a problem. You can't wish it away that easily if you're doing an honest assessment.

[Notanoob]

Castle's lack of steals and blocks is also super alarming.

While most elite defenders rack up more stocks, it's not like Castle's numbers are historically low or that there aren't examples of good perimeter defenders currently in the league who have had comparable stock numbers in college. I agree that we shouldn't expect him to be a defensive game-changer (very few players his size are) but he has a good chance to turn into a clear plus defender at POA.

Usually the elite defenders with meh steal rates are forwards, not nominal PGs. You can't deny what you see on tape, but it is weird.