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So if you bought the Kings?

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Post#41 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:01 pm by wiff

destro wrote:i think the league average for power forward height is 6'8" in shoes. the league is getting smaller in favor of more athleticism.


You said 6'8" in shoes. I forgot Chris Bosh he's over 6'10" barefoot.

Anyway I have been watching a bout 6 different halves yesterday and basically I have come up with their starters would be nice role players.

Isaiah Thomas can get to the rack and does a nice job offensively for the Kings he's just so small. He just can stop anyone. First possession of the game vs Cleveland Irving posted him up. But he is a good passer, shooter and slasher.

Jimmer can shoot and he does a decent job getting to the rack but same thing he can't stop anyone.

Aaron Brooks (from Seattle) Had a really nice year in Houston but Isaiah is starting over him and again can't stop anyone.

John Salmons decent players but he's the kind of guy you always think you can get an upgrade.

Jason Thompson blue collar guy decent contract keep him.

Thomas Robinson he's not horrible, but at this point I wouldn't want him to start. Sure have him come off the bench. But is that really what you want your 5th pick over all in the draft doing? I'd say if you are bad enough to get the 5th pick overall you are looking for a starter not a role player.

Those are the 6th guys I'd be willing to keep but to me they are all bench players. And really there is no need for all 3 of Isaiah, Brooks and Jimmer.

As far as Seattle based guys coming to play for Seattle.

I think Collison will come back for a year or two once his OKC contract is up. Funny thing though he has been in OKC longer than he was in Seattle. I still think he'd come back.

I like Jamal but he has signed a pretty long deal in LA. T Ross is on a rookie deal. Maybe Pondexter. Wroten is on a rookie deal

Spencer Hawes is ok, I'd like to see Klay Thompson but that ain't going to happen.

No thanks on Marvin Williams, Jason Terry, Brian Scalabrine, Adam Morrison, Brandon Roy, Luke Ridnour, Robert Sacre, Austin Daye, Stuckey, Brockman, Pargo, Turiaf, Webster.

But one thing I learn from the Luke Ridnour experiment. Is that on draft night it's really nice to get a local kid and it puts butts in the seats for about 10 games but putting a winner on the floor does a much better job of filling up the stands than having a local boy on the floor.
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Post#42 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:06 pm by Det the Threat

^^ What about that Cousins guy, wiff?
Any indications on keeping him or not?

:P
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Post#43 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:09 pm by SuperChronics

I'd keep DMC, T-Rob (as a 6th man), Thomas (as a backup PG) and firesale the rest of the team. Thornton especially, that guy drives me insane. Shoot about six 3's a game at a 34% clip. If I've got a shooter putting up that many you better be hitting close to 40% or looking for another shot. Pick up Trey Burke or McCullom (sp?, Leigh PG) this year to solidify the PG. I think the 2014 draft could hold the next superstar in Andrew Wiggins as well. Would be incredible if we could snag Durant 2.0
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Post#44 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:18 pm by countrybama24

Trade everyone except Cousins. He is a potential centerpiece, and the move should give him the new start he needs. Gotta tank for that 2014 pick and get a premier wing player. After that, find a pass first guard to not make the same mistake the kinds have been making.

I think Cousins can still get it together. I would hire a psychologist to try and help him sort through his problems though.
debo23 wrote:his farts are more offensive than our starting lineup

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Post#45 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:06 pm by wiff

Det the Threat wrote:^^ What about that Cousins guy, wiff?
Any indications on keeping him or not?

:P


For myself I'd rather trade him and wipe our hands clean.

Let me put it this way if he was a woman he'd be the ultimate cock tease.

He's exactly what you want. Tall, good frame, runs the floor well, super soft hands, passes REALLY well, seems to score pretty effortlessly. Jack pot right?

Nope! Because he is also lazy on D, doesn't get back on D, seems to have ZERO interest in playing D besides rebounding. He is also a coach killing locker room cancer.

Personally I just don't think he can be the best player on a team that would be any good. He needs to be the second best player on his team and have a strong veteran locker room. Or he needs to play next to a guy like KG who is a total d bag but actually works his butt off.

He truly is the best and the worst all rolled up into one. And I'm sorry I don't want to have to hold any ones hand or have to come up with reasons to motivate guys at this level.
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Post#46 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:11 pm by Det the Threat

Well, that's a solid point.

Given that, draft night 2013 would be pretty interesting cause every team with a top 3 pick and willing to deal it should be on the short list of suitors for him then.
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Post#47 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:46 pm by OzSonic

The big announcement from KJ was a bit of a fizzer for Sacramento. 19 people pledged $1M each, we're working on the "whales", we're still in the fight etc. This sealed it for me:

"The NBA reserves the right to approve a relocation or sale... it is unprecedented for NBA to allow relocation from city after 28 years."

Basically a lot of chest beating and nothing that worries me as a Sonics fan.
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Post#48 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:51 pm by Det the Threat

Well I don't really know what that was all about.

They really need a huge "whale" if they want this to work out for them.
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Post#49 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:56 pm by Sweezo

OzSonic wrote:The big announcement from KJ was a bit of a fizzer for Sacramento. 19 people pledged $1M each, we're working on the "whales", we're still in the fight etc. This sealed it for me:

"The NBA reserves the right to approve a relocation or sale... it is unprecedented for NBA to allow relocation from city after 28 years."

Basically a lot of chest beating and nothing that worries me as a Sonics fan.


Unprecedented to allow a relocation after 28 years? I seem to recall a team being allowed to move after 40 years not that long ago...

I feel bad for the guy. He's spent countless hours fighting this fight and if that's his last ditch effort it's a shame. He seems like a good man; I don't know how he is in the realm of politics in general but if he spends that same level of effort across the board then he's doing better than a good share of the mayors across the country.

If we had a mayor who'd fought half as hard to keep the team here instead of Greg freakin' Nickels I don't know that we'd have even lost our team in the first place.
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Post#50 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:22 pm by wiff

Det the Threat wrote:Well, that's a solid point.

Given that, draft night 2013 would be pretty interesting cause every team with a top 3 pick and willing to deal it should be on the short list of suitors for him then.


The other thing that Cousins does that kills me is that he settles for 18ft jumpers WAY TOO MUCH. He is practically unstoppable in the post. I'm not an advanced stat guy but I'd love to know his shot percentages from different distances. I bet it drops off a cliff after 15ft.
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Post#51 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:47 pm by wiff

I found it.

Cousins FG% at the rim 62.4%
League average for C's 66%

However he is only assisted 40% and the league average is 62%. So he creates a lot of his own shots.

Cousins FG% 3-9ft 31%
League average for C's 38.6%

Cousins 10-15ft 29%
League ave for C's 40%

Cousins 16-23ft 28%
League ave for C's 37.5%

He is assisted way less than the league average for centers. So you can look at it like he can create his own shot, or you can look at it like he is a chucker.
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Post#52 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:20 pm by Mk0

I posted this on the Bulls board for our discussion of this subject and also on the GB which linked back to this forum. It is based around the rumor of Phil Jackson being the face of the FO. I made a few edits to my original post to fit this thread.

Management

-Hire Phil Jackson as President of Basketball Operations. He does 90% of his job sitting on his porch in Montana. He hires GM Kurt Rambis, Head Coach Brian Shaw and Assistant Coach Scottie Pippen to beat the triangle into Cousins thick skull. Rebuild the roster around DMC + Triangle.

-Challenge Shaq to put his money where his mouth is and sign on for a 2-year contract as the big man coach, personally taking responsibility for turning DMC into the franchise center he can be.

-Hire Gary Payton as Sonics Ambassador (Scottie's current job for the Bulls). Where he sits court side and bathe in adoration whenever he feels like going to a game and doing goodwill PR in the community and promoting the team.

-Hire Kemp as head of custodians. He has like 9 kids to feed. Seriously though he joins GP as team ambassador.

Why it works:

Rambis: Gets out of the studio and gets to be a GM. Phil still has final say-so as Pres. of Ops.

Shaw: He finally gets to be a Head Coach

Pip: He wants to be a head coach, but if PJ says this is your shot, swallow your pride and pay your dues. You have to think he takes it.

Shaq: The tough part is tricking Shaq into giving up the TNT gig, but if it has a chance to boost his legacy he may do it. Feed his ego and get him into buying into it as the next stage of his career. He gets to take any and all credit for DMC's success.

It would be the ultimate franchise rebuild. Everyone involved with your FO have multiple championship rings under their belt. From different eras and positions. Talk about building with a winning pedigree.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Player Personel

Specifically on this thread (in regards to the thread on the GB) I have to say that if the above is in action than you build around 2015 FA while establishing your young core.

PG - Brooks(expiring in a year?)/Thomas/Jimmer
Thomas stays as a local favorite on a super cheap contract. He makes 760k currently and his contract has a Qualifying Offer of 1.1mil in 2015.

Jimmer could work well in the triangle as a spot up shooter. Team Option in 2015, QO in 2016.

SG - Thornton / Vet FA
Makes 8 and 8.5mil in 2013/14. But in a league without many good to great SGs he looks like he is worth the contract as everyone overpays decent SGs. He shoots 36% on his 3s for his career and is an expiring contract in 2014. If you let him play his contract out rather than taking on another contract in a trade he is the largest expiring contract the team has going into 2015 FA.

SF - James Johnson, Salmons, Honeycutt.
JJ is a tweener forward and not a very good one, but he makes 2.8m and 4m in 2013/14 and is also off the books in 2015.

Salmons makes 8/7.5mil in those years but is unguaranteed (1mil if waived) for 2015.

Honeycutt is cheap and hasn't really played much. Cheap bench warmer.

PF - T-Rob, Jason Thompson, Chuck Hayes
TRob is on a fresh rookie deal until 2017, give him burn and see if he fits the triangle.

Jason Thompson stays or not depending on his fit in the triangle. His contract ends unguaranteed (2.6mil if waived) in 2017 so if he works out well he makes 6.4mil in 2015 when you are trying to bring in FAs.

Chuck Hayes makes 6mil in 2015 and is off the books going into FA that Summer.

C - Cousins
Everything revolves around this knucklehead. Pray the FO can straighten him out. Bring in a veteran big man as his back up who can help to mentor him. We have all seen what he can do when he has his head on straight. He just needs to mature.

Players to trade: Garcia, Evans and Outlaw. Look to buy some picks from cheap teams. Try to trade up in this upcoming draft or go the Houston route and grab a bunch of mid round picks to use or stash some Euros. People are saying this draft is weak so the picks could be accessible outside of the top.

In FA you pick up some solid vets to help mentor the youth and fill specialty roles. Pray you get a good lotto bounce and rebuild around Cousins your draft pick. All FA contracts must end in 2015.

Entering the Summer of 2015 you only have three definite contracts on the books (not counting draft picks), Jason Thompson, Thomas Robinson and Jimmer Fredette. Total of 11 million on the books plus the salary of Cousins and Thomas after they signed their Qualifying Offer the year prior.


Here is the list of 2015 Free Agents: http://www.hoopsworld.com/2015-nba-free-agents/

Headliners include LeBron, Wade, Melo, Rondo, Parker, Love, Aldridge, Bosh, Amare, Marc Gasol, KG and Duncan. Although the last two are going to retire with their teams.

There is a fair amount of depth in FA as well with guys like Rudy Gay, Eric Gordon, Louis Williams, Danny Green, Dragic, Jameer Nelson, JRich, Wes Matthews, Jamal Crawford, Kawhi Leonard, Jeff Green, Omer Asik, Bass, Bargnani, Nick Collison, Channing Frye, Perkins, Varejao, DeAndre Jordan, Big Baby and Robin Lopez.
In regards to Nerlens Noel being traded on draft night for Jrue Holiday.
Ax2SG wrote:How in hell is Noel involved in a trade that neither team has a top 3 pick? What if Cleveland drafts Noel with the 1st?

EDIT: HOLY ****, I FORGOT THE DRAFT WAS TODAY GUYS
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Post#53 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:10 am by wiff

Mk0 wrote:I posted this on the Bulls board for our discussion of this subject and also on the GB which linked back to this forum. It is based around the rumor of Phil Jackson being the face of the FO. I made a few edits to my original post to fit this thread.

Management

-Hire Phil Jackson as President of Basketball Operations. He does 90% of his job sitting on his porch in Montana. He hires GM Kurt Rambis, Head Coach Brian Shaw and Assistant Coach Scottie Pippen to beat the triangle into Cousins thick skull. Rebuild the roster around DMC + Triangle.

-Challenge Shaq to put his money where his mouth is and sign on for a 2-year contract as the big man coach, personally taking responsibility for turning DMC into the franchise center he can be.

-Hire Gary Payton as Sonics Ambassador (Scottie's current job for the Bulls). Where he sits court side and bathe in adoration whenever he feels like going to a game and doing goodwill PR in the community and promoting the team.

-Hire Kemp as head of custodians. He has like 9 kids to feed. Seriously though he joins GP as team ambassador.

Why it works:

Rambis: Gets out of the studio and gets to be a GM. Phil still has final say-so as Pres. of Ops.

Shaw: He finally gets to be a Head Coach

Pip: He wants to be a head coach, but if PJ says this is your shot, swallow your pride and pay your dues. You have to think he takes it.

Shaq: The tough part is tricking Shaq into giving up the TNT gig, but if it has a chance to boost his legacy he may do it. Feed his ego and get him into buying into it as the next stage of his career. He gets to take any and all credit for DMC's success.

It would be the ultimate franchise rebuild. Everyone involved with your FO have multiple championship rings under their belt. From different eras and positions. Talk about building with a winning pedigree.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Player Personel

Specifically on this thread (in regards to the thread on the GB) I have to say that if the above is in action than you build around 2015 FA while establishing your young core.

PG - Brooks(expiring in a year?)/Thomas/Jimmer
Thomas stays as a local favorite on a super cheap contract. He makes 760k currently and his contract has a Qualifying Offer of 1.1mil in 2015.

Jimmer could work well in the triangle as a spot up shooter. Team Option in 2015, QO in 2016.

SG - Thornton / Vet FA
Makes 8 and 8.5mil in 2013/14. But in a league without many good to great SGs he looks like he is worth the contract as everyone overpays decent SGs. He shoots 36% on his 3s for his career and is an expiring contract in 2014. If you let him play his contract out rather than taking on another contract in a trade he is the largest expiring contract the team has going into 2015 FA.

SF - James Johnson, Salmons, Honeycutt.
JJ is a tweener forward and not a very good one, but he makes 2.8m and 4m in 2013/14 and is also off the books in 2015.

Salmons makes 8/7.5mil in those years but is unguaranteed (1mil if waived) for 2015.

Honeycutt is cheap and hasn't really played much. Cheap bench warmer.

PF - T-Rob, Jason Thompson, Chuck Hayes
TRob is on a fresh rookie deal until 2017, give him burn and see if he fits the triangle.

Jason Thompson stays or not depending on his fit in the triangle. His contract ends unguaranteed (2.6mil if waived) in 2017 so if he works out well he makes 6.4mil in 2015 when you are trying to bring in FAs.

Chuck Hayes makes 6mil in 2015 and is off the books going into FA that Summer.

C - Cousins
Everything revolves around this knucklehead. Pray the FO can straighten him out. Bring in a veteran big man as his back up who can help to mentor him. We have all seen what he can do when he has his head on straight. He just needs to mature.

Players to trade: Garcia, Evans and Outlaw. Look to buy some picks from cheap teams. Try to trade up in this upcoming draft or go the Houston route and grab a bunch of mid round picks to use or stash some Euros. People are saying this draft is weak so the picks could be accessible outside of the top.

In FA you pick up some solid vets to help mentor the youth and fill specialty roles. Pray you get a good lotto bounce and rebuild around Cousins your draft pick. All FA contracts must end in 2015.

Entering the Summer of 2015 you only have three definite contracts on the books (not counting draft picks), Jason Thompson, Thomas Robinson and Jimmer Fredette. Total of 11 million on the books plus the salary of Cousins and Thomas after they signed their Qualifying Offer the year prior.


Here is the list of 2015 Free Agents: http://www.hoopsworld.com/2015-nba-free-agents/

Headliners include LeBron, Wade, Melo, Rondo, Parker, Love, Aldridge, Bosh, Amare, Marc Gasol, KG and Duncan. Although the last two are going to retire with their teams.

There is a fair amount of depth in FA as well with guys like Rudy Gay, Eric Gordon, Louis Williams, Danny Green, Dragic, Jameer Nelson, JRich, Wes Matthews, Jamal Crawford, Kawhi Leonard, Jeff Green, Omer Asik, Bass, Bargnani, Nick Collison, Channing Frye, Perkins, Varejao, DeAndre Jordan, Big Baby and Robin Lopez.


Way too many Lakers for my liking. Not a fan of Potty Skippen either.
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Post#54 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:28 am by Mk0

Lakers guys are kind of Phil's thing. Everyone he has groomed to teach the triangle is a Laker apart from Pippen. Pippen is also the one guy who understood it the best as a player. Think of it as a necessary evil to have all those Laker guys around. The idea is to base the FO on championship pedigree with Phil Jackson as its base.

As far as non-Lakers/Phil guys go, if you can throw enough money at RC Buford then you do that and never look back. I doubt he ever leaves San Antonio though.

In the end the coaching staff is entirely dependent on how you want to play. If you are against the triangle but want to develop DMC as a dominant half court big man there is always SVG.

Mike Budenholzer has been Popovich's assistant since he started in San Antonio and he is still young (40s).

Eric Musselman has been in the DLeague for a while now but he was huge in player development for the Warriors and he used to be considered an offensive guru. Although that title has been tainted by Mike D'Antoni.

Speaking of which, if you are interested in a fast pace team I am sure Mike D'Antoni will be available next summer :rofl:.

Seriously though, the issue is that DMC is a child and needs someone who can flash championship rings in his face and check his attitude. Budenholzer could be a really good head coach.
In regards to Nerlens Noel being traded on draft night for Jrue Holiday.
Ax2SG wrote:How in hell is Noel involved in a trade that neither team has a top 3 pick? What if Cleveland drafts Noel with the 1st?

EDIT: HOLY ****, I FORGOT THE DRAFT WAS TODAY GUYS
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Post#55 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:18 am by Klomp

Mk0 wrote:In the end the coaching staff is entirely dependent on how you want to play. If you are against the triangle but want to develop DMC as a dominant half court big man there is always SVG.

Mike Budenholzer has been Popovich's assistant since he started in San Antonio and he is still young (40s).

Eric Musselman has been in the DLeague for a while now but he was huge in player development for the Warriors and he used to be considered an offensive guru. Although that title has been tainted by Mike D'Antoni.

Speaking of which, if you are interested in a fast pace team I am sure Mike D'Antoni will be available next summer :rofl:.

Seriously though, the issue is that DMC is a child and needs someone who can flash championship rings in his face and check his attitude. Budenholzer could be a really good head coach.

No mention of Nate McMillan? I figured he'd be at the top of the list for most Sonics fans
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Post#56 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:37 am by Mk0

Nate is Mr. Sonic so it is safe to assume he would be on their radar. I didn't mention him since so many people seem to have soured on him since he was fired in Portland. The general consensus was that he was stubborn and wasn't exactly working his players to the best of their skillset, which is odd even though his teams managed to over achieve. I think in their major injury ridden season PDX had near 50 wins.

I always assumed he was like Skiles in that he is a hard ass and while the players themselves may not be developing to the best of their own abilities it is getting the best out of the collective team.
In regards to Nerlens Noel being traded on draft night for Jrue Holiday.
Ax2SG wrote:How in hell is Noel involved in a trade that neither team has a top 3 pick? What if Cleveland drafts Noel with the 1st?

EDIT: HOLY ****, I FORGOT THE DRAFT WAS TODAY GUYS
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Post#57 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:18 pm by wiff

Personally I think Bill Laimbeer would be a great hire as head coach. He has direction.

Image

Bill Laimbeer and his Detroit teammates are the only players to have a playoff winning record against NBA legends Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, and Michael Jordan.


As player:
2× NBA champion (1989–1990)
4× NBA All-Star (1983–1985, 1987)
As coach:
3× WNBA champion (2003, 2006, 2008)
WNBA Coach of the Year (2003)


He played most of his career for Chuck Daly. Tell me if you think Chuck was respected by his peers?

Image

But seriously Bill is a three time champ as a coach. Yes it's the WNBA but the womens game is considered to be more of a team sport. More pure for lack of a better word.

I know everyone hates the guy who played against him or happened to be a fan of a team that wasn't the Pistons but the guy is a proven winner. I'd freakin love to see him coach the new Sonics.
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Post#58 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:45 pm by yearsago

Nice list. If no Buford, why not presti at gm?
Also doesn't durant have a player option at 2015
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Post#59 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:43 pm by wiff

yearsago wrote:Nice list. If no Buford, why not presti at gm?
Also doesn't durant have a player option at 2015


I have tried to find out when Presti's contract expires I think he may have just re-signed one. I also don't think Bennett would even let the Sonics talk to him.

I don't see the players option in Durant's contract. And honestly I'd be shocked if he left OKC for Seattle.

I can see LA or New York or Chicago. I think him coming back would be viewed as rubbing OKC's nose in it and I don't see him taking that kind of PR hit. He was only in Seattle for a year and he will have played in OKC for close to a decade.

Don't get me wrong I'd freakin LOVE LOVE LOVE to see him back in Seattle but I just don't think it will happen.

Hit a home run with the GM get lucky with the draft and sign complimentary players.
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Post#60 Re: So if you bought the Kings?
Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:31 pm by wiff

MORE on Cousins

I watched the game vs the Suns last night. Cousins is a rebounding machine, awesome passer, has fantastic post moves. POOPY attitude.

His attitude is atrocious. To the point were he was showing up the refs and they started to call the lamest fouls on him in the last 3 minutes of the game. Whatever small chance the Kings had in erasing the 10 point lead with three minutes left Cousins crushed it with his piss poor attitude.

He is a less likable Rasheed Wallace. Kind of similar players, super talented, poopy attitude and zero brain.

However Thomas Robinson had the best game of his young career last night and looked pretty solid. He was a rebounding machine too.
12pts, 14rebs and 2 dimes. Had a pretty awesome dunk too.

By the way don't let the 3 that Cousins hit fool you, it's the first jumper I have seen him hit all week. Well maybe the 3rd jumper.

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