Siakam trade for basically nothing is now showing its effect

[brownbobcat]

It's easier to just ignore things you don't like and make things up.

Yeah, everyone exaggerates the FO's failures in the margins and forgets about their devastating midrange game. Just look at these bangers with the MLE.

2019 - McCaw -> waived; RHJ -> waived
2020 - Aron Baynes -> waived; Alex Len -> waived
2021 - Khem Birch -> Poeltl filler
2022 - OPJ -> Olynyk/Agbaji filler; Koloko -> waived
2023 - Dennis Schroder -> Dinwiddie -> waived

Yeah, we could have used it on

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/07/how-teams-are-using-2023-24-mid-level-exceptions.html
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2022/07/how-teams-are-using-2022-23-mid-level-exceptions.html

Who exactly?

Like bruh don't expose you dont actually follow other NBA teams so easily

*yawn* already had this discussion. Kyle Anderson, Caleb Martin, DiVincenzo, PJ Tucker, Malik Monk, Caruso, Jae Crowder, Seth Curry, Derrick Rose, Hartenstein, Malik Beasley, Taurean Prince, Bruce Brown (with Denver), Jalen Smith, Trey Lyles.

At least they smashed it on the big moves, right?

2021 - Powell -> GTJ -> TBD
2021 - Lowry -> Achiuwa/Dragic-> Thad/Koloko - 13 spots --> waived + trade filler
2022 - FRP + 2 SRP -> Poeltl
2023 - FVV -> nothing
2023 - OG -> RJ/IQ
2024 - Siakam -> Brown/KO/Agbaji/2 FRP

Anyway you cut it, they've done very little in 4 years to add rotation players to this team except by drafting Barnes and trading OG.

It's not even debatable, you can look at this team and see the cupboard is pretty bare. You can point to this team and that team and "average" results, but the incontrovertible proof is right in front of our eyes. Unless RJ and IQ take the leap into star-level starters, this rebuild is going to take a few years.

[YogurtProducer]

Yeah, everyone exaggerates the FO's failures in the margins and forgets about their devastating midrange game. Just look at these bangers with the MLE.

2019 - McCaw -> waived; RHJ -> waived
2020 - Aron Baynes -> waived; Alex Len -> waived
2021 - Khem Birch -> Poeltl filler
2022 - OPJ -> Olynyk/Agbaji filler; Koloko -> waived
2023 - Dennis Schroder -> Dinwiddie -> waived

Yeah, we could have used it on

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/07/how-teams-are-using-2023-24-mid-level-exceptions.html
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2022/07/how-teams-are-using-2022-23-mid-level-exceptions.html

Who exactly?

Like bruh don't expose you dont actually follow other NBA teams so easily

*yawn* already had this discussion. Kyle Anderson, Caleb Martin, DiVincenzo, PJ Tucker, Malik Monk, Caruso, Jae Crowder, Seth Curry, Derrick Rose, Hartenstein, Malik Beasley, Taurean Prince, Bruce Brown (with Denver), Jalen Smith, Trey Lyles.

At least they smashed it on the big moves, right?

2021 - Powell -> GTJ -> TBD
2021 - Lowry -> Achiuwa/Dragic-> Thad/Koloko - 13 spots --> waived + trade filler
2022 - FRP + 2 SRP -> Poeltl
2023 - FVV -> nothing
2023 - OG -> RJ/IQ
2024 - Siakam -> Brown/KO/Agbaji/2 FRP



It's not even debatable, you can look at this team and see the cupboard is pretty bare. You can point to this team and that team and "average" results, but the incontrovertible proof is right in front of our eyes. Unless RJ and IQ take the leap into star-level starters, this rebuild is going to take a few years.

AKA - a list of guys who outside a handful are not meaningful players in any way, shape or fashion. In fact, most are worse than Dennis who you so easily waved away as meaningless. We both know the difference between you endlessly bitching and being satisfied is not Caleb Martin and Jae Crowder.

Anyway you cut it, they've done very little in 4 years to add rotation players to this team except by drafting Barnes and trading OG.

Sure, if you ignore the Powell for GTJ trade, or the Poeltl trade, or the Siakam for Brown/KO/Agbaji trade, etc.

But yeah, if you ignore all the rotation players brought in you could say we did nothing.

[YogurtProducer]

So, some of the usual suspects that wanted Siakam run out of town and wanted him traded got FOMO and complaining all of a sudden. Shocking. And they will go right back to doing it next series, if it takes that long.

It is like clockwork.

Siakam both sucked and needed to be moved immediately but was good enough we should have got a haul back.

[Johnny Bball]

So, some of the usual suspects that wanted Siakam run out of town and wanted him traded got FOMO and complaining all of a sudden. Shocking. And they will go right back to doing it next series, if it takes that long.

It is like clockwork.

Siakam both sucked and needed to be moved immediately but was good enough we should have got a haul back.

I will say this again, who's fault is it for not valuing him as good enough, the FO or every other NBA team that tried to trade for him but didn't?

[brownbobcat]

AKA - a list of guys who outside a handful are not meaningful players in any way, shape or fashion. In fact, most are worse than Dennis who you so easily waved away as meaningless. We both know the difference between you endlessly bitching and being satisfied is not Caleb Martin and Jae Crowder.

I would be satisfied with rotation-level guys if the alternative was OPJ, Len, Baynes, etc. Because instead of being worthless, at least you have an asset with potential value that can be flipped. I thought Schroder was a very good signing, but that gets entirely negated when you trade him for nothing to save a few dollars - which is why he's not included.

Sure, if you ignore the Powell for GTJ trade, or the Poeltl trade, or the Siakam for Brown/KO/Agbaji trade, etc.

But yeah, if you ignore all the rotation players brought in you could say we did nothing.

They already had Powell, it's not a net gain if you end up trading him for a worse player. I thought the strategy there was sound, it just didn't work out. On its own, not terrible, but it's death by 1000 cuts if you start making mistakes everywhere else - like the disaster of the Poeltl trade. Adding a lower-tier starting C when you need upside is a horrendous price, especially when it cost them a shot at a generational superstar too. Completely foolish move with no redeeming value or strategy whatsoever.

Siakam for Brown/KO/Agbaji? Yeah, great return on an All Star - a journeyman you could've signed in the offseason, a D-level prospect and a couple mid/late FRPs is wonderful asset management.

[brownbobcat]

So, some of the usual suspects that wanted Siakam run out of town and wanted him traded got FOMO and complaining all of a sudden. Shocking. And they will go right back to doing it next series, if it takes that long.

It is like clockwork.

Siakam both sucked and needed to be moved immediately but was good enough we should have got a haul back.

1. Siakam is a very good player, but not someone you can build around on a $50M max with Barnes.
2. The return on the trade was crap.

Both of those things are true. Wild, I know.

[Duffman100]

So every 6 years. One team on average gets 1 guy in the fringe. (We have one but it of course doesn’t count)

And this is the franchise altering atrocious management?

If your standard is the Washington Wizards, it's perfectly adequate.

I'll repeat the question you never answered - are you satisfied with play-in losses or do you consider that to be a disappointment?

You just commented about shifting goalposts and right here you’ve shifted goalposts.

[earth007]

Just remember that the Bucks play atrocious defense. Wait till the Pacers face a competent team in the second round. Siakam's numbers won't be in the 30s in the next round. I can guarantee you that. I still don't think that Pacers team is going to even win a conference title one day with their core and that style of play. As good as Siakam has been, the guy barely plays any defense now. Their team looks good when they hit their 3s, but they look horrible when they have off shooting nights.

I agree that we got a bag of chips for Siakam, but that's because our FO stupidly held on to their assets for too long. Imo, at least FVV and Siakam should have been traded after that playoffs loss to the Sixers.

[refshateRaps]

We had a very highly skilled supporting core the FO choose not to go for it. Period.

I believe they were milking the increased in fan base post Championship for their own personal benefit and because the team was making money so no urgency to make a move if we could be a low playoff seed.

It worse when it's clear they knew what it takes to compete and refused to go for it with a prime core with championship pieces, including the coach.

Siakam would have been one of the strongest 2nd options in the league the last few years.

[HumbleRen]

Masai had 0 leverage with Siakam.

It’s why Siakam’s camp was able to veto trades that would of gave us a better return, he chose the Pacers and there was nothing we could do about it outside of giving him a 5 year max contract. (Which would be completely idiotic)

Some of us saw this coming a mile away, hence calling the FO to be proactive instead of reactive for the last 3 years but alas, here we are.

The FO’s reaps what it sows.

I find it highly amusing that the people who were crying about not wanting Siakam traded are the ones upset and shocked at his return package after Masai kicked the can down the road one too many times.

[2019nbachamps]

Yeah, everyone exaggerates the FO's failures in the margins and forgets about their devastating midrange game. Just look at these bangers with the MLE.

2019 - McCaw -> waived; RHJ -> waived
2020 - Aron Baynes -> waived; Alex Len -> waived
2021 - Khem Birch -> Poeltl filler
2022 - OPJ -> Olynyk/Agbaji filler; Koloko -> waived
2023 - Dennis Schroder -> Dinwiddie -> waived

Yeah, we could have used it on

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/07/how-teams-are-using-2023-24-mid-level-exceptions.html
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2022/07/how-teams-are-using-2022-23-mid-level-exceptions.html

Who exactly?

Like bruh don't expose you dont actually follow other NBA teams so easily

*yawn* already had this discussion. Kyle Anderson, Caleb Martin, DiVincenzo, PJ Tucker, Malik Monk, Caruso, Jae Crowder, Seth Curry, Derrick Rose, Hartenstein, Malik Beasley, Taurean Prince, Bruce Brown (with Denver), Jalen Smith, Trey Lyles.

At least they smashed it on the big moves, right?

2021 - Powell -> GTJ -> TBD
2021 - Lowry -> Achiuwa/Dragic-> Thad/Koloko - 13 spots --> waived + trade filler
2022 - FRP + 2 SRP -> Poeltl
2023 - FVV -> nothing
2023 - OG -> RJ/IQ
2024 - Siakam -> Brown/KO/Agbaji/2 FRP

Anyway you cut it, they've done very little in 4 years to add rotation players to this team except by drafting Barnes and trading OG.

It's not even debatable, you can look at this team and see the cupboard is pretty bare. You can point to this team and that team and "average" results, but the incontrovertible proof is right in front of our eyes. Unless RJ and IQ take the leap into star-level starters, this rebuild is going to take a few years.

One of the best posts of the year

[SpezNc]

There is something that annoy me with pundit that blast the Siakam trade in the past few days because Siakam is having very good playoffs so far .

They complete forget that the reason the Raptors trade Siakam was to reset timeline around Scottie Barnes and avoid to max long term a borderline max player . The fear with Siakam was staying a “mid team”, play-in / first round exit ceiling with limited ways to improve the team . Also let’s face it the relation was not good since Raptors refuse to considers super max him should he become eligible.

The goal of the trade and we can’t disagree with that route, was never to get back a player as good as Siakam . In fact , that would be a home run if that was the case . Masai would be a genie .

Now in term of the return we got , we can debate about the timing of the trade and if moving him sooner would have fetch a better return . Maybe it is maybe not . Let’s assume it is. Still , unlikely we get a player as good as Siakam .

Obviously a pundit can disagree with the direction we took . That pundit may feel that we should have kept Siakam and that we were close to being a contender with Barnes, RJ, Quick, Jakob and Gradey.

But comparing any player we get from the Siakam trade to Siakam is pointless IMO. Of course Siakam will be better . If not, this means Siakam is falling off a cliff.

Siakam is a very good player . In the 20 to 40 range in the NBA depending of the metric/ranking or how much you value that type of player. Can we please not be surprise each time he is having a good game ?

At the end of the day, what he do with Indiana is irrelevant to how this move will play out for the Raptors long term . And moving Siakam will have a bigger impact that the return itself .



[x]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=bbHklJ8GtSbhRHldSOdiIA[/x]

[anotherhomer]

it wasn't a good trade.....but one that had to be made

however, it should had been made earlier, at say the 2023 deadline

u could had gotten benedict for him most likely

[Raptorfan2012]

it wasn't a good trade.....but one that had to be made

however, it should had been made earlier, at say the 2023 deadline

u could had gotten benedict for him most likely

Was Benedict ever on the table (for real?) or is this another one of those made up fantasy trade scenarios that fans here like to make to get mad about.

[Scase]

24 months? More like 5 years. There's a long list of guys added one way or another since 2019 and pretty much no successes. Len, Baynes, RHJ, Stanley Johnson, Brissett, Freddy Gillespie, Birch, Yuta, Armani Brooks, Thad, Banton, Barton, Champagnie, Joe Wieskamp, Ron Harper jr, Juancho, on and on. I'm forgetting some, and not listing end of this year guys. Hard to pick out any successes in 5 years.

It's easier to just ignore things you don't like and make things up.

Yeah, everyone exaggerates the FO's failures in the margins and forgets about their devastating midrange game. Just look at these bangers with the MLE.

2019 - McCaw -> waived; RHJ -> waived
2020 - Aron Baynes -> waived; Alex Len -> waived
2021 - Khem Birch -> Poeltl filler
2022 - OPJ -> Olynyk/Agbaji filler; Koloko -> waived
2023 - Dennis Schroder -> Dinwiddie -> waived

I'm gonna have to call BS on this. 24 months ago wasn't 2019

[disoblige]

People complaining about the FO, lives in fantasy land since Masai has a positive record as GM and a championship ring to boot. If you wanted to tank 1 yr ago where's the thread you created that says "lets tank" or "Lets trade Siakam/Fred". Hiding under the rock not saying anything proves nothing. Hindsight is 20/20

I made one, where's yours?
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2243194

[Scase]

There is something that annoy me with pundit that blast the Siakam trade in the past few days because Siakam is having very good playoffs so far .

They complete forget that the reason the Raptors trade Siakam was to reset timeline around Scottie Barnes and avoid to max long term a borderline max player . The fear with Siakam was staying a “mid team”, play-in / first round exit ceiling with limited ways to improve the team . Also let’s face it the relation was not good since Raptors refuse to considers super max him should he become eligible.

The goal of the trade and we can’t disagree with that route, was never to get back a player as good as Siakam . In fact , that would be a home run if that was the case . Masai would be a genie .

Now in term of the return we got , we can debate about the timing of the trade and if moving him sooner would have fetch a better return . Maybe it is maybe not . Let’s assume it is. Still , unlikely we get a player as good as Siakam .

Obviously a pundit can disagree with the direction we took . That pundit may feel that we should have kept Siakam and that we were close to being a contender with Barnes, RJ, Quick, Jakob and Gradey.

But comparing any player we get from the Siakam trade to Siakam is pointless IMO. Of course Siakam will be better . If not, this means Siakam is falling off a cliff.

Siakam is a very good player . In the 20 to 40 range in the NBA depending of the metric/ranking or how much you value that type of player. Can we please not be surprise each time he is having a good game ?

At the end of the day, what he do with Indiana is irrelevant to how this move will play out for the Raptors long term . And moving Siakam will have a bigger impact that the return itself .



[x]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=bbHklJ8GtSbhRHldSOdiIA[/x]

And yet, this was the exact same argument from EVERY single person defending the Jak trade.

"Oh the draft is bad/we won't get a player as good as him."

But nah, it's a fair argument for the Siakam trade now. So very convenient.

[Duffman100]

There is something that annoy me with pundit that blast the Siakam trade in the past few days because Siakam is having very good playoffs so far .

They complete forget that the reason the Raptors trade Siakam was to reset timeline around Scottie Barnes and avoid to max long term a borderline max player . The fear with Siakam was staying a “mid team”, play-in / first round exit ceiling with limited ways to improve the team . Also let’s face it the relation was not good since Raptors refuse to considers super max him should he become eligible.

The goal of the trade and we can’t disagree with that route, was never to get back a player as good as Siakam . In fact , that would be a home run if that was the case . Masai would be a genie .

Now in term of the return we got , we can debate about the timing of the trade and if moving him sooner would have fetch a better return . Maybe it is maybe not . Let’s assume it is. Still , unlikely we get a player as good as Siakam .

Obviously a pundit can disagree with the direction we took . That pundit may feel that we should have kept Siakam and that we were close to being a contender with Barnes, RJ, Quick, Jakob and Gradey.

But comparing any player we get from the Siakam trade to Siakam is pointless IMO. Of course Siakam will be better . If not, this means Siakam is falling off a cliff.

Siakam is a very good player . In the 20 to 40 range in the NBA depending of the metric/ranking or how much you value that type of player. Can we please not be surprise each time he is having a good game ?

At the end of the day, what he do with Indiana is irrelevant to how this move will play out for the Raptors long term . And moving Siakam will have a bigger impact that the return itself .



[x]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=bbHklJ8GtSbhRHldSOdiIA[/x]

And yet, this was the exact same argument from EVERY single person defending the Jak trade.

"Oh the draft is bad/we won't get a player as good as him."

But nah, it's a fair argument for the Siakam trade now. So very convenient.

Not that I was a fan of the Jak trade, because I wasn't. But again this argument is disingenious as the Jak for FRP was pretty much 1:1 (a few seconds that could be attributed to him or Khem).

The Pascal trade is more than just the single FRP.

[Boselecta]

This might be a hot take but I think this trade return wise is on par with the VC trade.

[disoblige]

There was a thread for TWO 1st round pick for Poelt and many people were onboard. Because Siakam and Poelt are best friends, which people now forgets.