2024 NBA Draft Lottery | TODAY! @3pm EST | Update: Raptors Convey 8th Pick to Spurs

[SFour]

You just called a player that has 62 career games a bust? Did you also call Gradey a bust in the beginning of the season? What a joke of a comment.

You'd rather a roleplayer and no pick. Christ almighty, some of the stuff you masai defenders say is flat out hilarious.

I know it's hard to comprehend but Scoot Henderson isn't taking us to a championship.

the same will apply to any team that has Scoot as their core player

[vobot]

Yikes. Wasn't really expecting us to keep it though.

Hopefully this concludes the nightmare-ish year (and the year before). Front office needs to start hitting on their moves.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

this is a bad outcome honestly

how so? we had to give up a pick and we don't project good enough to make the playoffs next year either.
the only better outcome would've been to give up the 9th or 10th pick lol.

How so is it a bad outcome? Let's recap...

We were in 10th place then Masai traded for veteran expiring C in Poeltl with aim to make the playoffs Result: Failed to make playoffs AND by choosing to go for it instead of tanking, we also ended up with a lower 2023 pick. Double Fail.

The justification logic then became that Poeltl would be re-signed to help us reach the playoffs in 2023-24 season. Result: We were a pathetic 22-38 before Barnes went down and no hope of making the playoffs. Result: Failed playoff bid again.

After that paltry 22-38 start (despite trying to win), we finally decided to tank hard with goal to keep the 2024 pick. Result: We failed to keep our pick. So, we didn't tank for a 2023 pick that we had and tanked for a 2024 pick that we didn't have.

Outcome? For an expiring contract, the Spurs got a 2023 2nd round pick, the 2024 #8 pick and a 2025 2nd round pick. And Birch. That's pretty bad. Honestly.

Yep that's a good recap, just a bad few years for Masai

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Don't get it twisted, we got bent over on the Poeltl trade. No revisionist history.

Better chance of pick number 8 having a worse career then Poetl then better. Stop with this dumbass narrative.

They tanked this year to protect that crappy position. You're wrong.

[Chandan]

I know it's hard to comprehend but Scoot Henderson isn't taking us to a championship.

the same will apply to any team that has Scoot as their core player

at least scoot doesn't cost us a pick and 20 million a year even if both never become championship caliber players (the 8th pick might)

[canada_dry]

There’s a distinct possibility this team will be in the play-in next year with a healthy Barnes (if not better).

The attempts to somehow spin this as a win for this FO are funny to me

Simple. Late Lottery pick in next years draft>top 10 pick in this draft.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Harry Palmer]

they want to live in fantasy land. I agree we'd end up with Scoot Henderson....but that doesn't fit their narrative.

I'd rather have Scoot over Poeltl.

no one here is surprised you think this.

Every rebuilding team should think this. I don’t like Scoot, particularly, but his odds of becoming a star are astronomically greater than Poetl’s, and in the meantime/otherwise he doesn’t serve as counterproductive ballast. Again, the maxim of the pro sports bible (The Score Takes Care Of Itself) is that the natural currents of pro sports push all teams towards the middle. Draft, salary caps, salary:success ratio, etc. and if you just ride them out that’s where you’ll most likely end up. Slight difference being that since Walsh wrote that it’s gone from being controversial to such accepted wisdom that leagues are trying to hamper ‘tanking’. And with the flattened lottery results in the NBA we’ll need time to have enough data to see how much that reduces the benefits of tanking.

Caveat; I have personally always disliked the term tanking as in my understanding that means trying to lose at all levels, and imo it should never be part of the players’ mentality, arguably not even the coach’s, because that can get cancerous. So I prefer rebuilding, building through the draft, etc, but I realize this is not a windmill worth tilting against too often.

[Randle McMurphy]

There’s a distinct possibility this team will be in the play-in next year with a healthy Barnes (if not better).

The attempts to somehow spin this as a win for this FO are funny to me

Simple. Late Lottery pick in next years draft>top 10 pick in this draft.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

There’s no guarantee of that whatsoever

[Scase]

a bust and weak draft pick that's likely a role player....wow Raptors would've been eating good. 2nd championship would've been on the way.

You just called a player that has 62 career games a bust? Did you also call Gradey a bust in the beginning of the season? What a joke of a comment.

You'd rather a roleplayer and no pick. Christ almighty, some of the stuff you masai defenders say is flat out hilarious.

I doubt Masai would have drafted Scoot tbh. He has a similar eye for talent as Thorpe and Thorpe was saying there is a real chance Scoot is Eric Bledsoe before the draft last year.

If we had the 3rd pick, we would have traded down and picked one of the Thompson twins, Coulibaly, or Cason Wallace. Not taking a side in your debate here btw.

Oh yeah, I wasn't advocating for Scoot. I was just saying that the argument of, it is better to have Jak and trade AWAY a FRP, than have Scoot AND KEEP our FRP, is just outright stupid.

a bust and weak draft pick that's likely a role player....wow Raptors would've been eating good. 2nd championship would've been on the way.

You just called a player that has 62 career games a bust? Did you also call Gradey a bust in the beginning of the season? What a joke of a comment.

You'd rather a roleplayer and no pick. Christ almighty, some of the stuff you masai defenders say is flat out hilarious.

I know it's hard to comprehend but Scoot Henderson isn't taking us to a championship.

Well thank god we traded a FRP for championship centre Jakob Poeltl who took us to another chip.

[Harry Palmer]

My other main worry about conveying the pick is I don’t trust MLSE especially Ed Rogers . They will ask Masai to be a mid team .

This team is not far from being MID. It’s far from being great .

Just watch Ed Rogers forcing Masai to be mid…

Only recently heard this through Leaf sources, but they are probably the most plugged-in, Rogers-wise, but fwiw (might be old news here) apparently something went seriously wrong during Massai’s last negotiation and Rogers is apparently very much out on Massai. I should point out that, if true, this doesn’t mean the reasoning behind this is sound, it might just be petty corporate BS, or it could be something more grounded like worrying about Massai’s many points of focus or just his track record since winning.

[SFour]

the same will apply to any team that has Scoot as their core player

at least scoot doesn't cost us a pick and 20 million a year even if both never become championship caliber players (the 8th pick might)

scoot is 10 mill/yr and the 8th pick is 5 mill/yr.....they aren't cheap either. For 2 players that wouldn't even be starters on this team.

[canada_dry]

Wouldn’t you want the opposite? It’s top 6 protected next year.

No I'm saying I want us to tank if it's conveyed which we now know it was. No protections, no picks owed

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My point is we’re going into tank next year, we might as well keep it both years as there would have been protections in place.

I wanted to convey because I don’t believe they’ll go into next year to tank. I’d much rather a 9th pick next year than a 6th pick this year.

Agreed.

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[AkelaLoneWolf]

Scoot AND the 8th pick this year*

People acting like getting Scoot would be worse than getting Jak lmao, the copium here today is reaching critical levels.

a bust and weak draft pick that's likely a role player....wow Raptors would've been eating good. 2nd championship would've been on the way.

You just called a player that has 62 career games a bust? Did you also call Gradey a bust in the beginning of the season? What a joke of a comment.

You'd rather a roleplayer and no pick. Christ almighty, some of the stuff you masai defenders say is flat out hilarious.

lol no one tanks for role players.

[Chandan]

the same will apply to any team that has Scoot as their core player

at least scoot doesn't cost us a pick and 20 million a year even if both never become championship caliber players (the 8th pick might)

scoot is 10 mill/yr and the 8th pick is 5 mill/yr.....they aren't cheap either. For 2 players that wouldn't even be starters on this team.

It's okay we just need to sign less McDaniels and trade for more Dinwiddles then waive them.

[SFour]

at least scoot doesn't cost us a pick and 20 million a year even if both never become championship caliber players (the 8th pick might)

scoot is 10 mill/yr and the 8th pick is 5 mill/yr.....they aren't cheap either. For 2 players that wouldn't even be starters on this team.

It's okay we just need to sign less McDaniels and trade for more Dinwiddles then waive them.

from what I remember the majority of people on here were happy when they signed McDaniels....but everyones a genius in hindsight.

[Scase]

a bust and weak draft pick that's likely a role player....wow Raptors would've been eating good. 2nd championship would've been on the way.

You just called a player that has 62 career games a bust? Did you also call Gradey a bust in the beginning of the season? What a joke of a comment.

You'd rather a roleplayer and no pick. Christ almighty, some of the stuff you masai defenders say is flat out hilarious.

lol no one tanks for role players.

You're right, instead they tank and lose their pick after trading for a roleplayer.

And again, writing scoot off after 62 career games is beyond premature. Don't be one of those people, no one likes them.

[ForeverTFC]

What the Spurs did with it is the expected value of the 44th pick. You’re the one ascribing higher value to it, not him.

False. The subsequent decisions by another party shouldn't impact the consideration given at all.

Agree with this. Moreover, I would say that we should evaluate the trade on the probable value before the lottery; afterwards the only deviation is luck. Works different in optics, but the Poetl deal would be just as dumb if won the lottery, we’d just be a lot luckier.

The probable value is the expected value. The expected value of that 2nd round pick is a bust. The expected value of a mid to low lottery pick is a role player to solid starter. http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

If we go purely by expected value, we traded a role player / solid starter for another role player / solid starter. Yes the picks have higher upside, but Poelt has the higher proven floor.

Of course this is divorced from the context of our current situation; when you rebuild, betting on upside is better than protecting your downside. But the trade was not made when we were rebuilding. That’s why I always say the trade has become disastrous BUT I understand why they made it at that time.

[ItsDanger]

My other main worry about conveying the pick is I don’t trust MLSE especially Ed Rogers . They will ask Masai to be a mid team .

This team is not far from being MID. It’s far from being great .

Just watch Ed Rogers forcing Masai to be mid…

Only recently heard this through Leaf sources, but they are probably the most plugged-in, Rogers-wise, but fwiw (might be old news here) apparently something went seriously wrong during Massai’s last negotiation and Rogers is apparently very much out on Massai. I should point out that, if true, this doesn’t mean the reasoning behind this is sound, it might just be petty corporate BS, or it could be something more grounded like worrying about Massai’s many points of focus or just his track record since winning.

On the corporate side, they would prefer flexibility for this current situation in the scenario they pivot towards new management.

[Chandan]

scoot is 10 mill/yr and the 8th pick is 5 mill/yr.....they aren't cheap either. For 2 players that wouldn't even be starters on this team.

It's okay we just need to sign less McDaniels and trade for more Dinwiddles then waive them.

from what I remember the majority of people on here were happy when they signed McDaniels....but everyones a genius in hindsight.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2305311&start=20

The majority of people who aren't privy to resources that a GM and his scouting department has. But most of the majority you talked about are people who blindly supports Masai and everything he does.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Giving up the 8th pick for Poeltl seems like a hefty price to pay

i mean they didn't outright trade the #8 pick for him. they traded a future top 6 protected pick which turned out to be #8. obviously getting here meant things did not go as planned.

i'm not defending the move here but i think a lot of us probably thought this was a 41 win team in the beginning of the season. that would've gotten around the 10-11th pick. we gave up the 8th pick, which in a bad draft is not a bad drop.
masai's gambit of not giving up a high value pick worked but obviously getting poeltl did not work out for us also.
this is a loss; but not a major one.
no we can truly look ahead with all our assets.