Why don't we talk about Kleiza anymore?

[Comeatme_Bro]

Lol, we'll agree to disagree then. I personally don't think DeMar is a franchise player either but we're not making him the first option yet are we? And for the kleiza comparison, I know you have are somewhat biased towards him since he is your countryman, but DeMar's sophomore season is already better than any of Kleiza's 5 years in the NBA. DeMar has a lot of work to do but dude is only 21, he will improve.

Countryman lol? I'm from the US. I do follow European basketball as well as some of the popular national Teams: Spain, Serbia, Lithuania, etc.

I don't want to get too much into the Derozan comparison since him and Linas are totally different players. (Originally I just commented on the 3 pt shooting since somehow incorrectly called Kleiza out). Anyway look at Kleiza's last two seasons in Denver.... dude had better stats in less minutes then he does now as a Raptor. Plus Denver even challenged the Lakers somewhat in the playoffs. At the end of the day Kleiza played 23 minutes as a backup to Carmelo on a team that was top 4 in the West. Derozan gets spoon-fed minutes and scores 16.5 points on a team that is 20-53. His other stats are nothing to praise. My main peeve is comparing stats of players on garbage teams. But yea, Derozan is the one with potential. He's solid for 21 but I also don't see him as a franchise player. I'm not hating but I see his limit as a JR Smith or Nick Young type player with a worse jumper and better ability to attack the basket.

But just cause someone said a stupid comment about Kleiza you had to bring DeMar in to the conversation? You have 12 other guys on this team and you single him out? I mean clearly you have some hate for the guy... Although I will that the JR Smith and Nick Young comparisons are solid although I do hope he becomes better just for the raptor's sake.

[Rhettmatic]

What do you think we'll get for him? BC turned Krapono and Turkeypoo into Reggie and Barbosa, I'm sure he can get something for Kleiza. Kleiza's the best of the three, and has the best contract.

I'd happily trade him for nothing. Like, REALLY happily.

[666]

Those two seasons were pre-major injury Kleiza. I doubt he'll ever come close to that kind of play again. You don't exactly see people pointing years back on Kevin Garnett's production, why should we do differently for Kleiza?

There's only about 4 or 5 franchise players in the league. Bosh and Carter weren't even franchise players. THe label gets tossed around too frequently

Unfortunately I also don't think we'll see Kleiza in that form again. Microfracture is a big deal. I just get annoyed when people say he was garbage when he was playing seriously hurt. Plus he still averaged 11/5 in 26 minutes. Can only speculate how he would have been if he were healthy.

Amare recoverd well from the operation. I also would like to see Kleiza lose around 10-15 pounds. He bulked up to play PF in Europe and that hurt his mobility to play SF in the NBA. Combine the weight with the damage knee cartilage and he looked like a pregnant rhinoceros when he moved on the floor.

People need to be more realistic with their expectations. You're not going to get a Kobe Bryant for 4.6M. Sometimes I think Realgm members on the Raptors forum would even find issues with this roster even if each player was in his prime:

PG - John Stockton
SG - Michael Jordan
SF - Lebron James
PF - Tim Duncan
C - Shaq

[666]

What do you think we'll get for him? BC turned Krapono and Turkeypoo into Reggie and Barbosa, I'm sure he can get something for Kleiza. Kleiza's the best of the three, and has the best contract.

I'd happily trade him for nothing. Like, REALLY happily.

I would also like to see him get traded... especially somewhere where fans have a little more respect and are appreciative of their players. Even NY would be a better destination. I don't want to see a guy like Kleiza treated by the amateur Raptors training staff. Here in the US there's a rumor that if you need healthcare in Canada you have to wait for months to get surgery. Maybe that had something to do with Kleiza going to Colorado to get the microfracture surgery done.

The part about getting nothing in return is awesome too. That mean's BC can have more $ to give another undeserving player a Hedo type contract. That would make the Raptors even worse. Maybe playoffs in 2023-2024

[Yuri Vaultin]

We don't talk too much about Nate Huffman either. You know why?

Because they suck.

Kleiza looked good at the worlds. Looked like crap for the Raps for the most part. While he could be a good bench guy, I'd rather role with James Johnson.

[Yuri Vaultin]

Here in the US there's a rumor that if you need healthcare in Canada you have to wait for months to get surgery. Maybe that had something to do with Kleiza going to Colorado to get the microfracture surgery done.

The part about getting nothing in return is awesome too. That mean's BC can have more $ to give another undeserving player a Hedo type contract. That would make the Raptors even worse. Maybe playoffs in 2023-2024

Here in Canada there is a rumour that if you don't have health insurance in the US you'll end up dying from some morbid obesity related ailment.

And regarding the Hedo contract reference... Earth to 666, Kleiza seems undeserving of his contract right now. While it doesn't break the bank it sure doesn't look like value in any way shape or form.

[666]

Kleiza looked good at the worlds. Looked like crap for the Raps for the most part. While he could be a good bench guy, I'd rather role with James Johnson.

Kleiza played hurt all season. You're evaluating someone who had serious issues with his knee. Is it possible that he didn't live up to his potential because of the injury? It happened during the first preseason game.

[noname2797]

kleiza is a bench player
aka scrub

[666]

kleiza is a bench player
aka scrub

lol that was a scrub post

[Volcano]

For all of Bargs' flaws, there's no way Derozan could live up to Andrea

Derozan year 2:
16.5 PPG 3.7 RBG 1.8 APG 1.0 STL 0.4 BLK TS% 0.530

Bargnani year 2:
10.2 PPG 3.7 RBG 1.1 APG 0.3 STL 0.5 BLK TS% 0.495

you're right..Derozan's scoring too much and too efficiently. He could never live up to Bargnani's level. If only Derozan was more like Bargnani.

[666]

Derozan year 2:
16.5 PPG 3.7 RBG 1.8 APG 1.0 STL 0.4 BLK TS% 0.530

Bargnani year 2:
10.2 PPG 3.7 RBG 1.1 APG 0.3 STL 0.5 BLK TS% 0.495

You conveniently forgot to add the part about how Bargnani only played 24 minutes compared to Derozan's 34 minutes lol. Also forgot to add how Demar takes 13.5 FGs a game to Barg's 9. Lastly, at least sophomore Bargs made the playoffs and played on a respectable team.

If you like fudging and data mining statistics to suit your argument then PM Boris and you can form a tandem of biased statisticians. It will look impressive though and you may fool a few people into assuming that they are valuable. :

[Volcano]

Derozan year 2:
16.5 PPG 3.7 RBG 1.8 APG 1.0 STL 0.4 BLK TS% 0.530

Bargnani year 2:
10.2 PPG 3.7 RBG 1.1 APG 0.3 STL 0.5 BLK TS% 0.495

You conveniently forgot to add the part about how Bargnani only played 24 minutes compared to Derozan's 34 minutes lol. Also forgot to add how Demar takes 13.5 FGs a game to Barg's 9. Lastly, at least sophomore Bargs made the playoffs and played on a respectable team.

If you like fudging and data mining statistics to suit your argument then PM Boris and you can form a tandem of biased statisticians. It will look impressive though and you may fool a few people into assuming that they are valuable. :

so shouldn't he have been more efficient not LESS?

Oh..and last time I checked, extending it to 14 PPG (per 34 min) is still less than 16 PPG. It's funny, because all I stated was factual statistics that happened as is and you're the one who wants to change it.

You're right, Bargs did make the playoffs that year..that's why he played so few minutes, because we had better players leading the way. This year, Bargnani's leading the way, which is why we're off to one of the worst Raptor seasons ever. Notice ever since Bargnani hit the 30+ min mark, we were never able to make playoffs.

Why am I even arguing with you anyways? You truly believe Bargs in year 2 was better than Derozan in year 2? LOL. There's no point in arguing with someone like that. Totally blind.

[666]

so shouldn't he have been more efficient not LESS?

Oh..and last time I checked, extending it to 14 PPG (per 34 min) is still less than 16 PPG. It's funny, because all I stated was factual statistics that happened as is and you're the one who wants to change it.

You're right, Bargs did make the playoffs that year..that's why he played so few minutes, because we had better players leading the way. This year, Bargnani's leading the way, which is why we're off to one of the worst Raptor seasons ever. Notice ever since Bargnani hit the 30+ min mark, we were never able to make playoffs.

Why am I even arguing with you anyways? You truly believe Bargs in year 2 was better than Derozan in year 2? LOL. There's no point in arguing with someone like that. Totally blind.

So Demar and Andrea had similar adjusted stats right? In my opinion, the player that played on the playoff team is more impressive.

Look you can put Sasha Vujecic on the Raptors, play him 35 minutes and let him take 14 shots... he will essentially have "decent" overall numbers. Statistics of players on mediocre teams deceive. Another major flaw, both for Andrea and Demar, is that stats don't record horrendous defense.

[sanity]

That is such bogus logic 666. Come on now

[HeyJoe]

the only time we ever brought him up was when we photoshopped his head onto pictures of tanks

[Scraptor]

Linas Kleiza is being camouflaged from view so that we cannot see the master plan in action.

We all know BC operates in twos:

Bosh - Jack (Georgia Tech)
Bargnani - Belinelli (Italy)
Calderon - Garbo (Spain)
Johnson - Johnson (Johnson)

Kleiza.... Valanciunas (Lithuania)

[karolis1221]

Linas Kleiza is being camouflaged from view so that we cannot see the master plan in action.

We all know BC operates in twos:

Bosh - Jack (Georgia Tech)
Bargnani - Belinelli (Italy)
Calderon - Garbo (Spain)
Johnson - Johnson (Johnson)

Kleiza.... Valanciunas (Lithuania)

Johnson - Johnson (Johnson)

[dacrusha]

I don't get this playing injured BS.

Who's selfish idea was it to play him? Kleiza's? Jay's? Bryan's? Is our training staff that inept?

No one knew the extent of the injury. Kleiza missed games throughout the year. I think most of the blame has to go to the training staff. Kleiza probably thought he was playing through nagging injuries but it was obviously more serious. It is the doctors fault for failing to diagnose the issue.

Kleiza refuted this outrageous rumor that was published in the Greek media...

According to exclusive inside information obtained by the Greek media, Kleiza's serious injury was foreseen, and despite that Toronto Raptors, pushed him to the limits, with no disregard whatsoever for the player's health.

http://www.talkbasket.net/news/the-trut ... -4058.html

... but there's something suspicious about Toronto's medical staff. It's Portland Trailblazers 2.0. Why did Amir Johnson play through his back spasms, why did Sonny Weems return to quickly from his back spasms (couldn't even dunk on a fast break), why is Barbosa still playing when he needs surgery on his wrist, what about Reggie's broken leg, etc? Why do these guys risk playing during a abysmal, throw-away, rebuilding, season?

I'm interested to hear from Kleiza through the Lithuanian press. It is possible that Linas is being political about the situation. I doubt there was a sinister plot to intentionally play an injured Kleiza, but I do think the training staff dropped the ball. How can a player just need to have microfracture surgery out of nowhere? I think Kleiza is being too quiet on the issue considering it's only the first year of his contract and he doesn't want to harm his reputation with the club. We can only speculate.

Kleizas knee issues are a long-term problem... he had been playing with them back in his Olympiakos days as noted by this article (it's in Greek, but easily translatable):

here

In other words, BC signed damaged goods, which is exactly reminiscent of the Nate Huffman affair.

[666]

Kleizas knee issues are a long-term problem... he had been playing with them back in his Olympiakos days as noted by this article (it's in Greek, but easily translatable):

here

In other words, BC signed damaged goods, which is exactly reminiscent of the Nate Huffman affair.

He looked great at the world's though. That tournament, in addition to the preparation, was like a two month affair.

Kleiza needs to lose weight so he can gain back some of his mobility from his Denver days. That will also put a little less pressure on his knees. Now with microfracture though, one can only hope he returns to this previous summer's form.

[I_Like_Dirt]

It's a lot easier to look great in international play than it is to look great in the NBA. Rasho was just euroleague MVP, for example.