GT#69 - Kings @ Raps - Wed Mar 20, 2024 - 7:30 PM EDT - TSN/1050AM

[Lateral Quicks]

Looks like I didn't miss much in not tuning in to this one.

[Tripod]

Is anyone actually watching any of these games??

God this is depressing. The end of the season can't get here any faster.

Watching for wins is pointless.

Watching for the young guys is not

[PushDaRock]

Stats plus eye test to me Poetl is not average player because of defence and passing but ok. All good bro. I’m still watching and I don’t care.

Lol a player is not average if they have that big an impact on a team, they are an impact player by definition. If he was average it shouldn't matter that he is out. The Poeltl trade proves again and again as a vital step forward for this team, and some on this board are becoming quite illogical in their irrational hate of the trade.

That is false. Poeltl has a bigger impact on "winning" because Masai has built a flawed roster where he only has 1 true Center. This was the same BS that made people think Fred was a winner because we also only had 1 true PG on the roster the past few years.

What makes Poeltl average is him being a 15th to 20th ranked starting Center in the NBA. Go check the General Board where people rank the top 15 Centers and Poeltl's name isn't even mentioned once so me saying that is actually being optimistic lol.

How is Fred not a winner? Look at his plus minus and on/off plus minus for his entire career.

[WaltFrazier]

Hearing Jack and Matt talk on about the NCAA tournament makes me sad. I used to love college ball but in recent years I lost interest what with one and done and conferences changing. Just can't seem to follow it anymore

[Tor_Raps]

Why has Porter played so little?

He left the game due to an illness

Thank you.

Saw him come in and grab those 2 rebounds and turned the channel to watch the end of curling. Then noticed his low toi so thought I would ask.

Hope they sign him for the #3C spot, and add a #2 C...KO to bench PF

Totally agree... thats how a normal depth chart should look and hopefully management feels the same way.

[Tor_Raps]

Lol a player is not average if they have that big an impact on a team, they are an impact player by definition. If he was average it shouldn't matter that he is out. The Poeltl trade proves again and again as a vital step forward for this team, and some on this board are becoming quite illogical in their irrational hate of the trade.

That is false. Poeltl has a bigger impact on "winning" because Masai has built a flawed roster where he only has 1 true Center. This was the same BS that made people think Fred was a winner because we also only had 1 true PG on the roster the past few years.

What makes Poeltl average is him being a 15th to 20th ranked starting Center in the NBA. Go check the General Board where people rank the top 15 Centers and Poeltl's name isn't even mentioned once so me saying that is actually being optimistic lol.

How is Fred not a winner? Look at his plus minus and on/off plus minus for his entire career.

Did I just not explain why the +/- made Fred and Poeltl look more important than they actually are? Building teams where the team only has 1 PG and 1 C creates an overreliance on them. Both are good players but look better using on/off splits because of the above.

[Tor_Raps]

Is anyone actually watching any of these games??

God this is depressing. The end of the season can't get here any faster.

Watching for wins is pointless.

Watching for the young guys is not

Now only if we had some relevant young guys to watch for. It's Dick and a bunch of young dudes who probably shouldn't be in the rotation next year.

[PushDaRock]

We "could" have had a lot of things. We could have won the lottery last year and drafted Wemby too lol

Well, yes - that's the point. Tank when there is no hope of contention and there's a generational prospect available. There were other great players available too.

We still have a mid possibly late lotto 1st rounder and and early 2nd. Not sure how that's a waste of the year.

Because that's much worse than an early lotto pick, let alone TWO early lotto picks.

Sure, with perfect hindsight that FVV would leave, we would have traded him. But, both sides expected he would stay until Houston came out of nowhere with that offer.

FVV leaving was entirely foreseeable. Also, it would have been WORSE if he stayed on a big contract.

What team was going to go all in for Siakam? He's not the type of player you gut your team for so no team was going to sell the farm for him. Even if you could have gotten more, it wouldn't have been by much.

Then why delay the process at all if he's not worth building around? See above: Van Vleet, Fred.

Other great players like who exactly from last year's draft? Miller looks like he should be a good player but the rest of the top 10 ranges from mediocre to disappointing.

lol what? Nobody expected Houston to offer him that contract. It was going to be a 3 or 4 year for 30m AAV type deal, Fred has value at that number.

Siakam is still a really good player, just because he's not good enough to build around by himself doesn't mean he's not good enough to build with which is different.

[PushDaRock]

That is false. Poeltl has a bigger impact on "winning" because Masai has built a flawed roster where he only has 1 true Center. This was the same BS that made people think Fred was a winner because we also only had 1 true PG on the roster the past few years.

What makes Poeltl average is him being a 15th to 20th ranked starting Center in the NBA. Go check the General Board where people rank the top 15 Centers and Poeltl's name isn't even mentioned once so me saying that is actually being optimistic lol.

How is Fred not a winner? Look at his plus minus and on/off plus minus for his entire career.

Did I just not explain why the +/- made Fred and Poeltl look more important than they actually are? Building teams where the team only has 1 PG and 1 C creates an overreliance on them. Both are good players but look better using on/off splits because of the above.

Then explain how Fred still has great on/off plus minus on Houston and on the other Raptor teams when Lowry was here too?

[Dalek]

The brutal part is that knowing this FO is doing everything it can to lose games on purpose with only a 50-50 chance at best of keeping the pick. Even if they end up 6 the lotto makes it likely the fall to a later pick than even 7.

The only way things get better is once this FO goes. I want a young smart exec who can reimagine this whole franchise from scouting to player development.

[tdotrep2]

it's a hard pill to swallow when you know that a bad coin flip and we just went through a hellish season for absolutely nothing

[traps#10]

This should’ve happened last year

[scuervo1]

The brutal part is that knowing this FO is doing everything it can to lose games on purpose with only a 50-50 chance at best of keeping the pick. Even if they end up 6 the lotto makes it likely the fall to a later pick than even 7.

The only way things get better is once this FO goes. I want a young smart exec who can reimagine this whole franchise from scouting to player development.

I don’t know man. We wanted Nurse gone and in exchange we got Darko lol

[brownbobcat]

Other great players like who exactly from last year's draft? Miller looks like he should be a good player but the rest of the top 10 ranges from mediocre to disappointing.

A slim chance at Wemby alone would be worth it, but there were lots of other interesting options that have showed more potential than Gradey. Both Thompson twins have showed promise, as have Jarace Walker (who Indiana wouldn't give up for Siakam) and Cason.
Would I rather have Lively than Poeltl? Hell yes.

lol what? Nobody expected Houston to offer him that contract. It was going to be a 3 or 4 year for 30m AAV type deal, Fred has value at that number.

I repeat, it was 100% entirely foreseeable that FVV was going to somewhere else given the desire to hand the reins over to Barnes, the way everything played out last year, and his obvious desire for a huge bag.

Re-signing him to something less like $120M/4yr (which Masai tried to do) would've been an even bigger mistake.

Siakam is still a really good player, just because he's not good enough to build around by himself doesn't mean he's not good enough to build with which is different.

But he wasn't by himself, and it still wasn't enough.

[Tor_Raps]

How is Fred not a winner? Look at his plus minus and on/off plus minus for his entire career.

Did I just not explain why the +/- made Fred and Poeltl look more important than they actually are? Building teams where the team only has 1 PG and 1 C creates an overreliance on them. Both are good players but look better using on/off splits because of the above.

Then explain how Fred still has great on/off plus minus on Houston and on the other Raptor teams when Lowry was here too?

Who else on Houston is a real PG? The Raptors had a great bench mob where he also played with Siakam/Poeltl.

Again, I actually like Poeltl and also like Fred when he's used correctly. Fred took a lot of heat last year when the reality was we were overly reliant on him to a fault. That's all I'm trying to say here. My comment shouldn't have talked to him about not being a winner, instead he wasn't as good as his on/off splits suggested.

[PushDaRock]

Other great players like who exactly from last year's draft? Miller looks like he should be a good player but the rest of the top 10 ranges from mediocre to disappointing.

A slim chance at Wemby alone would be worth it, but there were lots of other interesting options that have showed more potential than Gradey. Both Thompson twins have showed promise, as have Jarace Walker (who Indiana wouldn't give up for Siakam) and Cason.
Would I rather have Lively than Poeltl? Hell yes.

lol what? Nobody expected Houston to offer him that contract. It was going to be a 3 or 4 year for 30m AAV type deal, Fred has value at that number.

I repeat, it was 100% entirely foreseeable that FVV was going to somewhere else given the desire to hand the reins over to Barnes, the way everything played out last year, and his obvious desire for a huge bag.

Re-signing him to something less like $120M/4yr (which Masai tried to do) would've been an even bigger mistake.

Siakam is still a really good player, just because he's not good enough to build around by himself doesn't mean he's not good enough to build with which is different.

But he wasn't by himself, and it still wasn't enough.

You said great players, not just potentially good.

The point is Fred would have still come back without that offer from Houston out of nowhere. Whether you think that's right or wrong is another thing.

Was our core good enough to compete for a championship? Of course not, but it also wasn't given much of a chance to succeed with the dumpster fire supporting cast they had around them which didn't compliment their strengths.

[PushDaRock]

Did I just not explain why the +/- made Fred and Poeltl look more important than they actually are? Building teams where the team only has 1 PG and 1 C creates an overreliance on them. Both are good players but look better using on/off splits because of the above.

Then explain how Fred still has great on/off plus minus on Houston and on the other Raptor teams when Lowry was here too?

Who else on Houston is a real PG? The Raptors had a great bench mob where he also played with Siakam/Poeltl.

Again, I actually like Poeltl and also like Fred when he's used correctly. Fred took a lot of heat last year when the reality was we were overly reliant on him to a fault. That's all I'm trying to say here. My comment shouldn't have talked to him about not being a winner, instead he wasn't as good as his on/off splits suggested.

I mean what you're saying isn't supported by numbers so it's really an opinion that is unsupported.

[Tor_Raps]

Then explain how Fred still has great on/off plus minus on Houston and on the other Raptor teams when Lowry was here too?

Who else on Houston is a real PG? The Raptors had a great bench mob where he also played with Siakam/Poeltl.

Again, I actually like Poeltl and also like Fred when he's used correctly. Fred took a lot of heat last year when the reality was we were overly reliant on him to a fault. That's all I'm trying to say here. My comment shouldn't have talked to him about not being a winner, instead he wasn't as good as his on/off splits suggested.

I mean what you're saying isn't supported by numbers so it's really an opinion that is unsupported.

Ok rank Poeltl and Fred at their respective positions. Clearly you think both are very good players. My point was simply that the on/off numbers would make both guys look better than they truly are because of the teams deficiencies overall.

[DelAbbot]

This should’ve happened last year

But Masai said his guys deserve a chance for play-in. They deserve it

[Nebuchadnezzar]

That is false. Poeltl has a bigger impact on "winning" because Masai has built a flawed roster where he only has 1 true Center. This was the same BS that made people think Fred was a winner because we also only had 1 true PG on the roster the past few years.

What makes Poeltl average is him being a 15th to 20th ranked starting Center in the NBA. Go check the General Board where people rank the top 15 Centers and Poeltl's name isn't even mentioned once so me saying that is actually being optimistic lol.

How is Fred not a winner? Look at his plus minus and on/off plus minus for his entire career.

Did I just not explain why the +/- made Fred and Poeltl look more important than they actually are? Building teams where the team only has 1 PG and 1 C creates an overreliance on them. Both are good players but look better using on/off splits because of the above.

This has gone done an almost conspiratorial rabbit hole. How could you compare one of the lowest usage, most efficient players in the whole league to Fred? Built around Poeltl? What is going on?