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FireBC.com - (MLSE Comments on his future - Pg 33)

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Post#391 » by JV4MVP » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:23 pm

Yoga wrote:
Suga2Panda wrote:I'm not even mad at Colangelo anymore, he's been exposed for what he is. This is all on MLSE now.



My biggest concern is that MLSE actually doesn't care if we are ever championship caliber. They are more content with being competitive for a playoff spot (aka mediocre), and saving face, rather than doing what's really necessary.



+1, MLSE is keeping BC around for reasons uknown to me.


Probably has to do with the bottom line. $ > winning. As long as financials look good the fans can get shafted. No incentive to stir the pot w/ management changes as long as projected $ is earned.

You'd think winning would make a team more valuable but it doesn't necessarily. OKC is one anomaly... it helps to have a top-3 player to market. Knicks were a top 3 valued team even when they missed the playoffs for a decade.

Being the only Canadian team also is a disadvantage... demand for tickets will usually be high regardless of performance (same for Knicks, Lakers, etc.). Smaller market teams such as the Denver Nuggets or Cleveland Cavs post Lebron ticket sales are more sensitive to a winning/losing record. Some teams are more invested in winning to improve the bottom line, hence expect greater GM turnover during struggles. Toronto is not one of them.
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Post#392 » by Randle McMurphy » Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:16 am

The Chiefs finally fire Pioli, but the worse sports GM continues to stay on indefinitely as the Raptors rack up meaningless wins that take the pressure off him. Oh what fun.
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Post#393 » by Yoga » Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:49 am

Regression2u wrote:
Yoga wrote:
Suga2Panda wrote:I'm not even mad at Colangelo anymore, he's been exposed for what he is. This is all on MLSE now.



My biggest concern is that MLSE actually doesn't care if we are ever championship caliber. They are more content with being competitive for a playoff spot (aka mediocre), and saving face, rather than doing what's really necessary.



+1, MLSE is keeping BC around for reasons uknown to me.


Probably has to do with the bottom line. $ > winning. As long as financials look good the fans can get shafted. No incentive to stir the pot w/ management changes as long as projected $ is earned.

You'd think winning would make a team more valuable but it doesn't necessarily. OKC is one anomaly... it helps to have a top-3 player to market. Knicks were a top 3 valued team even when they missed the playoffs for a decade.

Being the only Canadian team also is a disadvantage... demand for tickets will usually be high regardless of performance (same for Knicks, Lakers, etc.).


Agreed, wish the Vancouver Grizz were still in Vancouver. The Raps are Canada's team. Most fans in Toronto are just happy that we have a basketball team. Hardcore basketball fans in Boston, New York, Philadelphia demand winning and excellence from their teams.

It seems only hardcore Raptors fans are on RealGM and cannot afford tickets to the games. For example, remember that white nose guy, who had a trophy blonde girlfriend with big watermelons? Do you think WNG really cares whether the Raps win or not? Or how much play he gets with women? I assume the latter.
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Post#394 » by Yoga » Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:50 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:The Chiefs finally fire Pioli, but the worse sports GM continues to stay on indefinitely as the Raptors rack up meaningless wins that take the pressure off him. Oh what fun.


It's not BC, MLSE or even Bargnani's fault. I am going to blame White Nose Guy from a year or two ago for the current state of this franchise.
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Post#395 » by alan_smithee » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:06 pm

I've been a long time reader of this message board and a close friend of mine that is a regular here thought it would be good if I shared some information about Bryan Colangelo with you all as I work within the organization. First off I know how message boards work and I know people will ask for proof of who I am but I really would not feel comfortable sharing my credentials, even in private with admins as I do not want to put my job in any sort of jeopardy. I know this is one of the most popular Raptors fan sites and there are people within the organization that would keep tabs on it. I hope you all understand my paranoia (which is also why I did not start a new thread and why I am posting from a public place).

For the skeptics I guess you should stop reading at this point and the rest can read on. I should mention that I am not a big shot, or high ranking person that would have inside information as to what goes on in the locker room, or what trades are being worked on so I cannot say much on that regard. I only can say what I hear being talked around the offices and information that passes through my hands. I am close to a couple of people close to the top so from time to time I do get a glance at what goes on behind closed doors. I don't have anything groundbreaking but just some confirmation of things you might already have heard.

I consider myself a fan of the Raptors before I consider myself an employee and I would like to see this team have success more than anything. From what I have seen I don't think Bryan Colangelo is the right person to lead this team to success. What I would like to tell you all is at the moment it does not appear as though Bryan will be leaving this team anytime in the foreseeable future. As much as fans here may be unhappy with his results, management and ownership still have a lot of confidence in him. There are a number of factors why this is the case. Even before the recent winning streak his job was never really in imminent danger.

First of all, the change of ownership from the OTPP to the Bell/Rogers consortium gave Bryan a new lease on life. You have to understand that when OTPP was in charge both the Leafs and Raptors were treated in the same way as an investor would treat any other stock. As long as they are making money for you then you probably don't care how they are doing it. There was no pressure on either team to have more success. The Raptors were already exceeding expectations in terms of growth and revenue so you can imagine that in an environment where hockey is king, the Raptors were doing just fine as far as dollars go. Eventually some rumblings started a few years ago that OTPP might sell the franchises and cash out which is when someone figured that winning teams would nicely raise the price tag. This is when some pressure began to be applied on Colangelo to improve the team. Ownership wanted additional playoff revenues that just weren't there at the time.

When the pressure did begin to mount on him they found some buyers willing to pay a bigger price than originally negotiated and the rest was history. With new owners Bryan got to start fresh with none of the previous pressures on him. Currently management is treating him as if he is in his second year with the team.

With the Raptors in the hands on Bell and Rogers not much has changed as to how much ownership cares about the team. Although there are certain people on the board with more of an interest in basketball, the Leafs still come first. The lost revenue from the NHL lockout is the biggest concern at the moment so the Raptors are flying under the radar for the most part. You have to understand that with the OTPP and with current ownership the Raptors operate sort of like a splinter group. As long as they report back with their books intact, there isn't much interference from up top. Even though the Raptors are going through some bad seasons the money is still coming in. There is still strong corporate sponsorship, good season ticket sales, obviously a good TV deal, and other sales resulting from merchandise and concessions. As long as these factors are present there won't be much pressure on Bryan to make any drastic changes to what he has been doing all along.

The fan outrage that recently came about over Bryan's track record didn't go unnoticed but it was only until members of the Toronto sports media began to call him out that ownership decided to check in on him. It wasn't a "you're in trouble now Bryan" type of meeting but rather just a "what's all this fuss" type of meeting. The fact that it took this long for the board members to realize that there might be something wrong with the team just goes to show how much they are concerned about it all. Like I mentioned earlier, the hockey lockout is letting Bryan fly under the radar. Some people have mentioned that ownership may have put restraints on Bryan this season but that is hardly the case. I have been told that Bryan has told the board that not landing Nash was a wrench in the gears, and he has declared this season as a "development year".

It is also no secret that Larry Tanenbaum and Bryan Colangelo are close friends. If you have been to any kind of MLSE function you will probably see the two mingling together. Larry is the chairman and even though he is a minority in the group, people listen to him when he talks. He is sort of the father at the head of the boardroom table. He may not be too insightful when it comes to basketball but compared to the other guys he is a jock so they assume he knows what he is talking about. Larry has always had Bryan's back whenever any kind of internal criticism has been lobbed his way because in his mind Bryan is a basketball genius. As long as Larry is around, Bryan's job will be safe unless something drastic happens.

It also doesn't help that Bryan has surrounded himself with a bunch of incompetent yes men - assistants, analysts, consultants, etc who just help stroke his ego. Take a guy like Alex Rucker for example. He is the type of guy that loves to believe that he is on a higher intellectual plane than everyone else. He will point out a pile of rubbish to you and tell you that it really is a pile of gold but you just can't see it the way he does because you are not as smart as him. The organization doesn't realize that he is just trying to make a name for himself. With him advising Bryan on what to do this team probably will not head in the right direction. Most people who have worked with him (aside from Bryan) really think he is full of you-know-what. These yes men also report back to the higher level and tell them that Bryan is doing a bang up job.

I could have spared myself all that writing and just said that Bryan isn't going to be leaving this team any time soon unless he leaves himself. The new owners have no qualms with him at the moment and they still have much faith in him. The only issue might arise if he asks for more money than the owners are willing to pay him. I can tell you basketball wise they are making good money so throwing a lot of money at Bryan would not be out of the question for them.

I should say that the fans should continue to speak out and say they would like changes because it does get noticed by the organization. However, I should add that until season ticket holders start to not renew their seats in large numbers they won't put fan reaction too high on their priority list. This site is a good start and people need to keep it going.

There isn't much more I can tell you. As for Bryan himself he is a very narcissistic person. When you hear him talking nonsense to the media it may sound like he is making excuses for himself but the truth is that for much of it he really believes what he is saying. He hates to be criticized as he feels that problems he encounters are not his fault, but rather the fault of other circumstances out of his hands. In typical CEO like fashion he will be quick to pass the buck onto those below him. He is also a natural pitchman and could easily work in marketing. You can start talking to him about a basketball player and a minute later you will find yourself talking about something completely different like the latest Bentley.

As for the team and trades i don't know much. I can say that I have heard that a divide had begun to form amongst the players and escalated during the road trip. From what I know some players were unhappy with some of Casey's tactics. It involved minutes, holding players accountable and also involved Kyle Lowry, Linas Kleiza and a few other players being critical to Casey of Andrea Bargnani. The plane trips and practices had become awkward times because of the rift. Bryan's meeting with the team was basically him telling everyone to play nice with each other (i.e. be nice to Bargnani) otherwise they will be shipped out. I know Amir is a company man and he was on Andrea's and Casey's side in all of this. Jose cemented his reputation with Bryan as he was one of the veterans that got everyone back on the same page.

Bryan was especially unhappy with Lowry, and Bryan doesn't like that type of rebellious attitude. It will be interesting to see how long his future with the team will be. I have been told that Kyle was told to tone it down and to not stir the pot in terms of how Casey should run the team. These types of incidents are common with losing teams but are usually kept under wraps while only the players, coaches and GM know about them. This one was big which is why word got out. I have been told that after the game in Utah tempers in the locker room were already high and after the game in LA everything just boiled over.

I know this isn't ground breaking info as most of it has leaked out to the media already, but it should give you an idea of how ownership is thinking and that Bryan probably will be with this team for a while.
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Post#396 » by Edumacated » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:18 pm

^^Thanks for taking the time to share that info. Disappointed to hear that BC is not going anytime soon. I think I'll lose interest in this team if he gets a 5-year contract.
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Post#397 » by Basketball_Jones » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:23 pm

God that sounds awful. I hope it isn't true. I mean, be nice to Bargnani or I'll ship you out. Just marry him already.
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Post#398 » by Vorticity » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:28 pm

very interesting tidbits, thanks for taking your time to write and share all of this, much appreciated

The Lowry, BC and Casey triangle is something to watch over the course of next few weeks
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Post#399 » by ReaLiez » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:40 pm

I may boycott this team till Bargs is traded. I have no real quarrel with BC and how he runs his business except for the fact that he is overly bias towards Bargs. If his job is not on the line Bargs is not on the trading block, the rest of the team is. holyhell...
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Post#400 » by andyo » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:53 pm

^Thanks for the post, assuming it is legitimate..a lot of what you said tie in with the greatest fears of raptor fans for a while. I can say with confidence that if B.C gets extended during the off-season, barring any miracles, I'll stop watching the raptors for the first time in a while. It's disheartening watching him gut the team and have irresponsible owners just stand by and let it happen.

Completely agree with you on B.C's attitude and I don't feel I need to personally interact with him to judge that. It's pretty evident that he will make any excuses possible to deter from his flawed ideal of how things should be. I mean he's had several recent interviews talking purely nonsensical ideas about "talent" and 2-3 game sample sizes before reiterating his intention to "not make any excuses". The ironic thing about it all is his entire tenure has been an excuse, despite how much time he reiterates that it isn't. I mean, you know what they say..if it looks like a duck...
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Post#401 » by Suga2Panda » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:56 pm

So MLSE doesn't give a **** about winning... that's what I thought. **** the Raptors.

Good job BC trading a lotto pick for a coach killer.
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Post#402 » by West Rouge » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:58 pm

What a f'n joke MLSE is. Im glad they noticed. Bryan is lucky we just played 4 shittt teams in a row. Finishing in 9-11th place this year without a draft pick is unacceptable
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Post#403 » by Edumacated » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:02 am

Vorticity wrote:very interesting tidbits, thanks for taking your time to write and share all of this, much appreciated

The Lowry, BC and Casey triangle is something to watch over the course of next few weeks


I have to admit, the drama this year has been interesting. It's like a soap opera. Will Bargs be traded? Who will be the starting PG? Will BC or Casey be fired? Will OKC get the pick? Too much going on.
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Post#404 » by Lord_Zedd » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:08 am

So in other words, Raptors have become the new L.A Clippers of the NBA. At least Donald Sterling woke up one night thinking he had no idea what to do with the money sitting around.

So it's just like any other large businesses. Money talks. And just like any other sports teams. Winning starts at the top. Clearly MLSE is overall bottom line first, then winning.

If that's true about Andrea Bargnani, OKC is smiling right now. And also, Ed Davis is as good as gone.

How do Washington fans do this with Grunfeld? Like us, They tasted success (more than the Raptors) and now back at the bottom of the barrel of mediocrity. BC and Grunfield are neck and neck as the worst GM's in the league right now and both ownership is rewarding stupidity.
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Post#405 » by J-Roc » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:17 am

Very interesting read. I actually seeked out this thread today to post that I'm sad. I have been coming to realize that we were oh so close to getting rid of BC, but he's probably saved his job for the rest of the year with this little winning streak.

That story by alan_smithee was interesting. Actually very funny. But one of the things I picked up on is BC being upset with Lowry. I have been wondering lately why the Raps PR machine have been talking about Lowry coming off the bench. I can't believe it, but perhaps Lowry complaining about Bargs has made him into the next Hedo. A BC acquisition that he quickly turns on.
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Post#406 » by Chaos Engine » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:40 am

J-Roc wrote:Very interesting read. I actually seeked out this thread today to post that I'm sad. I have been coming to realize that we were oh so close to getting rid of BC, but he's probably saved his job for the rest of the year with this little winning streak.

That story by alan_smithee was interesting. Actually very funny. But one of the things I picked up on is BC being upset with Lowry. I have been wondering lately why the Raps PR machine have been talking about Lowry coming off the bench. I can't believe it, but perhaps Lowry complaining about Bargs has made him into the next Hedo. A BC acquisition that he quickly turns on.

Same here man. I was of course happy to see the team win, but it made me sad because it might have saved BC's job. If losing those 4 games would have meant BC gets canned, I would have gladly taken those losses. Short term pain for long term gain.
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Post#407 » by JunkYardSubs » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:45 am

If BC isn't let go at seasons end Im done
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Post#408 » by Scorpion King » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:47 am

Everyone stop buying anything raptors related i.e. tickets and merchanidse.

Owners only care about money if you want change hit them where it hurts.
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Post#409 » by Yoga » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:17 am

This is complete BS
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Post#410 » by zilby » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:36 am

Been saying it all along, and if that post is legit, then it's exactly what I figured. MLSE's profit-first, Leafs first. As long as Bryan's putting money in their pockets, he's in the clear. Also confirming my hypothesis that they tell him to go make the moves that make a ton of money marketing-wise (Nash, Turk namely) and send him off. This is why he was allowed to offer Landry such a huge offer sheet, because it would screw the Knicks over and keep the plan in motion. Once that was out of play, we ended up going for Lowry and picking him up rather quickly, as we had a deal in place and plan B was quickly triggered.

Anyways, bottom line is, MLSE really doesn't give two ****s about this team as long as they're getting dough. Notice that they only started paying attention and realizing something once both fans and media were in revolt of this team, especially Bargnani.
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