Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV)

[YogurtProducer]

Meh I just don’t care anymore. Tank away!

Besides the we're better off conveying our 2024 pick to SAS part, there's also the optics and ego part.

Not necessarily. Depends how hard you lean into it.

If you REALLY want to tank, you could just be bad enough to get a top 6 pick this year and next.

I personally would rather just be bad and risk giving up the 7th pick this year (who cares, its a sunk cost), than do some weird in the middle thing where we don't even try to retain the pick and give them like the 13th or something.

If you trade Siakam, you gotta trade OG and Dennis to really make this team bad because there is to much talent to maintain a 30 win pace or whatever we are on.

To really maximize the youth and picks you need quantity, and rebuilding/tanking is essentially gambling. And if you wanna hit a # on the roulette table you have way better odds if you have enough capital to give yourself 10 spins than only 1.

[wegotthabeet]

What happens to the pick if keep it this year? Does it turn into a future pick?

I never really thought we'd be this bad to have this be a real possibility

top 6 protected 2024 - 2026, if Toronto has not conveyed a 1st round pick to San Antonio by 2026, then Toronto will instead convey its 2026 2nd round pick and 2027 2nd round pick to San Antonio.

[2019nbachamps]

Meh I just don’t care anymore. Tank away!

Seems you're finally seeing the light, albeit reluctantly. ... but we're not tanking.

Besides the we're better off conveying our 2024 pick to SAS part, there's also the optics and ego part.

That is, if we tank & don't end up bottom-6 but still top 10, the bad trade is going to look even worse. On top of that, he's going to have to admit Nurse was right and it was a talent and roster problem, not a coaching problem, especially with Darko doing worse with essentially the same team.

So I see Masai continuing his push to make the play-in/playoffs. If we trade Pascal it won't be just for picks and filler but rather we'll get at least a starter coming back. Else Pascal stays. Either way, like last season, Masai will treadmill over tank.

I agree with this. Masai gonna try to save face and get us into the playoffs. Then claim it was a successful year. Heck, if we miss the playoffs he’ll still claim victory by saying it was a development year with a new coach, system, starting PG, etc.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

So, the problem with this idea...a sixth pick in a bad year is probably a bad player.

[Chandan]

how do you get a champion to tank?

[mademan]

If we actually resolve some of our problems, like add shooting or trade pieces that don't fit. We probably get better.

But that would take Masai being capable of trading OG or Siakam. Im not sure he is

I'm sure they have a plan, I just can't see how coherent it is. The lack of shooting added over the offseason was a giant red flag to me.

The plan has been stay mediocre and try to grow from within. Masai has made exactly 1 big trade since he's been here, and it was an absolute steal for us. Ill believe he's capable of trading OG or Siakam when i see it.

Fool me once and all

[Chandan]

how do you get a champion to tank?

that was a trick question.

Answer: By trading away your FRP

what a zinger

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

But that would take Masai being capable of trading OG or Siakam. Im not sure he is

I'm sure they have a plan, I just can't see how coherent it is. The lack of shooting added over the offseason was a giant red flag to me.

The plan has been stay mediocre and try to grow from within. Masai has made exactly 1 big trade since he's been here, and it was an absolute steal for us. Ill believe he's capable of trading OG or Siakam when i see it.

Fool me once and all

If he's worried about looking bad in a trade, another Fred situation will remove all doubt. Like, Siakam going to the Sixers should be enough reason to move on from him.

[ArthurVandelay]

I believe there is a strong possibility that a Siakam trade has a Rudy trade like effect whereby the Raptors start to actually win.

Find pieces that fit Scottie and the .5 offense.

I’m also on board with trading OG now. Best to trade anyone not named Dick or Scottie.

[wegotthabeet]

But that would take Masai being capable of trading OG or Siakam. Im not sure he is

I'm sure they have a plan, I just can't see how coherent it is. The lack of shooting added over the offseason was a giant red flag to me.

The plan has been stay mediocre and try to grow from within. Masai has made exactly 1 big trade since he's been here, and it was an absolute steal for us. Ill believe he's capable of trading OG or Siakam when i see it.

Fool me once and all

the Gasol trade wasn't big?

the Ibaka trade. the Gay trade. the Bargnani trade. the Vasquez trade.

what's your definition of big trade?

[Bruin]

I’d rather keep this year’s pick and convey next year. My hope is next year Scottie will take another leap and we’re ready to make a push to be a young rising team and reach the playoffs as a lower seed.

I don’t wanna finish with the #7 pick and lose it this year just to get the #10 pick next year

I’d much rather get #6 and add a piece next to Scottie (and whatever we get in return from a Pascal trade) and convey a 15 pick next year

Tank away

[mademan]

I'm sure they have a plan, I just can't see how coherent it is. The lack of shooting added over the offseason was a giant red flag to me.

The plan has been stay mediocre and try to grow from within. Masai has made exactly 1 big trade since he's been here, and it was an absolute steal for us. Ill believe he's capable of trading OG or Siakam when i see it.

Fool me once and all

the Gasol trade wasn't big?

the Ibaka trade. the Gay trade. the Bargnani trade. the Vasquez trade.

what's your definition of big trade?

If those are considered big trades, there are 50 big trades a year in the league, lol. Role players for role players is not something anybody considers big, even if it did end up having a big effect (and they did). Those are "around the margin trades" where we were great 2014-2019. Our around the margin trades since (Thad Young, Poeltl) have been pretty bad since

[JN]

If anything with Scottie's improvement, and the acquisition of Poeltl the gross talent on the team (on the floor now) has improved since 21/22 and 22/23. And yet we continue to do worse each year. Why?

Some people blame the coaching - blame FVV, blame Dennis, blame Pascal, blame team chemistry (and vets). And really none of those are that major - its the roster construction and management's vision that is the issue.


The reality is this in my opinion. Each year "Team 6'8/6'9" and its shooting limitations get farther and farther away from what is working in the NBA- As the deviation gets larger each year, despite our team arguably getting a bit more talented as a whole each year, our record still goes downward. We tried to do something different and get ahead of the league - it didn't work

We have some good pieces here that can all be effective in the NBA. But throw them all together and its a very poorly constructed team. We need more shooting, more guards, and a more dynamic guard.

The Poeltl trade and the 2023 Trade Deadline was the turning point for me. I could accept and rationalize what management was doing up to then. But that move, which creates all kinds of flexibility issues moving forward, was the turning point for me. This isn't even to say that Poeltl is a bad player - he is not a bad player -- but he is a poor fit for our roster, and more importantly a poor fit based on where we were on the franchise success cycle.

[TorontoBarneys]

Meh I just don’t care anymore. Tank away!

Besides the we're better off conveying our 2024 pick to SAS part, there's also the optics and ego part.

Not necessarily. Depends how hard you lean into it.

If you REALLY want to tank, you could just be bad enough to get a top 6 pick this year and next.

I personally would rather just be bad and risk giving up the 7th pick this year (who cares, its a sunk cost), than do some weird in the middle thing where we don't even try to retain the pick and give them like the 13th or something.

If you trade Siakam, you gotta trade OG and Dennis to really make this team bad because there is to much talent to maintain a 30 win pace or whatever we are on.

To really maximize the youth and picks you need quantity, and rebuilding/tanking is essentially gambling. And if you wanna hit a # on the roulette table you have way better odds if you have enough capital to give yourself 10 spins than only 1.

To be honest it's not like this draft doesn't have notable talents in it. Alex Sarr would look great next to Scottie and there's also a big PG prospect for the picking in Isaiah Collier. There's some merit to tanking hard this year.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Let's assume the worst, we tank and get 6th...that guy turns into a role-player.

How many people are happy with that result?

[TorontoBarneys]

Let's assume the worst, we tank and get 6th...that guy turns into a role-player.

How many people are happy with that result?

How is that the worst-case scenario?

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Let's assume the worst, we tank and get 6th...that guy turns into a role-player.

How many people are happy with that result?

How is that the worst-case scenario?

Well, at least you get a player. Worst would be Len Bias.

[bboyskinnylegs]

Are there any real prizes in this draft that we should be hopeful for?

[7 Footer]

Tank for Bronny and lebron comes here for free

[TorontoBarneys]

Tank for Bronny and lebron comes here for free

This is the way.

LeBron on them super PED's will be playing at an all-star level until he's 45. LeBronto is coming to town.