2024 NBA Draft Lottery | TODAY! @3pm EST | Update: Raptors Convey 8th Pick to Spurs

[nikster]

Pretty much. He's still a true center after we've had the likes of Baynes and birch in recent years.

It's still a crappy acquisition because the timing, the cost, and the fit didn't make sense. Its still better than playing Boucher at the 5 or something with him out there.

However, people are reaching when they want to justify his existence, like how our younger players need to learn to play with a true center.
Playing with a non-spacing/non-elite shot blocking center is like playing 2000s basketball in the 2020s.

Nah I think Poeltl is fine. He's a least an elite finisher around the rim and if your big is not a shooter a good passer at the position still makes an impact offensively.

Several playoff teams are still running non 3pt shooting bigs. Knicks, Cavs and Heat in the East, Wolves, Clippers, Mavs, Pelicans, Kings, Clippers out west.

Heat : Not in the playoffs
Clippers : Zubac 13th in the league in BPG.
Wolves : Uh KAT? And Gobert is 6th in the league in BPG
Knicks : Both Robinson/Hartenstein average over a block a game. The latter of which was 18th in the NBA in BPG.
Cavs : Lol wut? Mobley is one of the best shot blockers in the NBA
Pels : eliminated first round
Mavs : The only team that isn't either spacing or shot blocking, and they run a 19 year old rookie centre. BUt they also have 2 of the best shooters in the NBA
Kings : Sabonis shoots 38% from 3

Chandan said non-spacing/non-elite blocking centre. As in one or the other, you focused only on 3pt shooting.

I was focusing on the shooting because Poeltl averaged 1.5 blocks per game. If he's a non elite shot blocker I don't see why your using a cut off of 1 block per game for some of these guys. The only objectively better shot blockers you listed are Gobert and Mobley (but the Cavs start Jarret Allen at Center).

[MiamiSPX]

Well at least we own all of our first round picks moving forward...unless Masai does another dumb trade. We do have the Pacers pick and the Det 2nd to add to our young core so it's not all doom and gloom...

It's not all doom and gloom. We knew the pick would convey at some point so it is probably better that it did so in this draft. it just feels worse because they are left empty handed after playing some disgustingly horrible basketball, albeit sometimes intentional, over the last 30 games.

I keep reminding myself that the Pelicans have 2 studs (TM3 and Herb) that were drafted 17th and 35th, respectively. And yes, I know that was a much stronger draft but let me cope.....

[JB7]

There have been many over the years of **** the bed by our FO. Knicks C lineup, Allen, Claxton, and so on. We were in talks for the latter 2 as well. Hell, they got Allen for basically a pick in the 20's, a SRP, and Exum.

I am hard pressed to believe many people would rather have a 28 year old Jak for a lotto pick vs a 22 year old Allen for peanuts. But yeah, lets keep pretending the only option ever available was Jak. Masai flamed out COUNTLESS times to find even a competent centre, and gave up so he threw away a weakly protected FRP.

Wasn't it rumored that the Raps were trying to get in on the Allen deal, when he was gifted to the Cavs?

Are you proposing the Raps trade a FRP for Mitchell on the Knicks? IH was a FA, but the Raps would have been competing with the Knicks to sign him, and would he be a 1st C option. He has done very well on the Knicks, but that is mostly because of the general style the Knicks play. His numbers don't blow anyone away.

And Claxton is overrated. Two years ago, he would have cost much more than a FRP in the 2024 draft.

Masai got a decent C for a FRP in a weak draft.

Can't say about the Allen bit as I've never heard that rumour. Doesn't really check out either, what reason does any team have to help out the Cavs and destroy their return.

Mitchell was picked 36th overall, not exactly sure what a FRP has to do with anything. I'm applauding their ability to draft a decent C with virtually no cost.

IH is on a 2 year 8m/y contract. He would have been the full time starting centre here, and could have easily thrown another year at him. Or the Masai special and give him a PO on the 3rd year. There is zero chance a guy who just came off a min salary contract is saying no to guaranteed money just to play on the Knicks who finished 37-45 the year prior.

Would claxton have cost more, yes absolutely. I would also take him over Jak 10 times out of 10. He was rumoured in trades a couple years ago, so yeah I would definitely trade for a 23 year old centre with tons of potential over a mid 28 year old.

Like what even is this argument. I have no clue, how people are STILL defending this trade after everything we've all seen.

The Nets gifted Allen to the Cavs because they were looking to clear cap space to sign KD and Kyrie, or they needed a draft pick to move to help them clear salaries, and Allen was sent to the Cavs for that pick. Masai, like many other GMs was probably trying to get in on that deal.

Raps did draft a young C for the future in Koloko. Unfortunately due to health, that didn't work out.

I wouldn't consider IH a long-term solution at C. He is not even NY's preferred option at C, as Mitchell is that, but he is just hurt.

And Yak is a better C than Claxton will ever be.

I don't know why people are so hung up on trading the 8th pick in a weak draft for a good long-term (4-5 year) solution at C.

[Scase]

Nah I think Poeltl is fine. He's a least an elite finisher around the rim and if your big is not a shooter a good passer at the position still makes an impact offensively.

Several playoff teams are still running non 3pt shooting bigs. Knicks, Cavs and Heat in the East, Wolves, Clippers, Mavs, Pelicans, Kings, Clippers out west.

Heat : Not in the playoffs
Clippers : Zubac 13th in the league in BPG.
Wolves : Uh KAT? And Gobert is 6th in the league in BPG
Knicks : Both Robinson/Hartenstein average over a block a game. The latter of which was 18th in the NBA in BPG.
Cavs : Lol wut? Mobley is one of the best shot blockers in the NBA
Pels : eliminated first round
Mavs : The only team that isn't either spacing or shot blocking, and they run a 19 year old rookie centre. BUt they also have 2 of the best shooters in the NBA
Kings : Sabonis shoots 38% from 3

Chandan said non-spacing/non-elite blocking centre. As in one or the other, you focused only on 3pt shooting.

I was focusing on the shooting because Poeltl averaged 1.5 blocks per game. If he's a non elite shot blocker I don't see why your using a cut off of 1 block per game for some of these guys. The only objectively better shot blockers you listed are Gobert and Mobley (but the Cavs start Jarret Allen at Center).

I was not using 1bpg as a cut off, I was using the basic top 20 in the NBA, of which Jak is not on as he does not qualify. He averaged 1.5 or more per game twice in his entire career, both with dog **** SAS teams. He is not an elite shot blocker, and no one in their right mind would ever call him one.

[Scase]

Wasn't it rumored that the Raps were trying to get in on the Allen deal, when he was gifted to the Cavs?

Are you proposing the Raps trade a FRP for Mitchell on the Knicks? IH was a FA, but the Raps would have been competing with the Knicks to sign him, and would he be a 1st C option. He has done very well on the Knicks, but that is mostly because of the general style the Knicks play. His numbers don't blow anyone away.

And Claxton is overrated. Two years ago, he would have cost much more than a FRP in the 2024 draft.

Masai got a decent C for a FRP in a weak draft.

Can't say about the Allen bit as I've never heard that rumour. Doesn't really check out either, what reason does any team have to help out the Cavs and destroy their return.

Mitchell was picked 36th overall, not exactly sure what a FRP has to do with anything. I'm applauding their ability to draft a decent C with virtually no cost.

IH is on a 2 year 8m/y contract. He would have been the full time starting centre here, and could have easily thrown another year at him. Or the Masai special and give him a PO on the 3rd year. There is zero chance a guy who just came off a min salary contract is saying no to guaranteed money just to play on the Knicks who finished 37-45 the year prior.

Would claxton have cost more, yes absolutely. I would also take him over Jak 10 times out of 10. He was rumoured in trades a couple years ago, so yeah I would definitely trade for a 23 year old centre with tons of potential over a mid 28 year old.

Like what even is this argument. I have no clue, how people are STILL defending this trade after everything we've all seen.

The Nets gifted Allen to the Cavs because they were looking to clear cap space to sign KD and Kyrie, or they needed a draft pick to move to help them clear salaries, and Allen was sent to the Cavs for that pick. Masai, like many other GMs was probably trying to get in on that deal.

Raps did draft a young C for the future in Koloko. Unfortunately due to health, that didn't work out.

I wouldn't consider IH a long-term solution at C. He is not even NY's preferred option at C, as Mitchell is that, but he is just hurt.

And Yak is a better C than Claxton will ever be.

I don't know why people are so hung up on trading the 8th pick in a weak draft for a good long-term (4-5 year) solution at C.

And I don't know why people can't seem to understand that the opportunity cost extends well beyond the 8th pick in a weak draft.

It has limited our flexibility, it massively devalued our 2023 pick, it cost us a future pick, and has us mired in mediocrity.

Masai himself has literally called the trade a mistake, and you people are still out here defending it. Unbelievable.

[DelAbbot]

* After the first four-number combination determines which team gets the No. 1 pick, the league then draws combinations for the No. 2, No. 3, and No. 4 picks. The Raptors had three of the four numbers in each of those combinations too.

Moral Victory

[ConSarnit]

Well here's another poster to disagree with the notion that Jakob was brought here to win games. He was brought here because we needed a C. We haven't had one since Ibaka & gasol left. He was brought here so Barnes wouldn't play the 5. He was brought here because it became evident that this team needs a competent C as a foundation to build your philosophy.

We would've won more games if everyone was healthy & locked in

Are you trying to argue that the Poeltl trade was not a win-now move?

Raps FO was pursing Yak for longer than just the trade deadline. The only reason he was finally dealt at the deadline was it was the point at which SAS had to make a decision, and the cost to the Raps was at its lowest.

Had Yak been traded to the Raps in the summer before that season, would you consider it a win now move?

The Raps FO was inquiring in the summer (they knew they needed a C), but the reported cost at the time was 2 FRPs SAS was asking for, and they would have probably been picks in 2023 & 2025. Raps waiting until the deadline got it down to the top 6 protection in 2024, 2025 and 2026, with the low protection to ensure it had a greater chance to convey in 2024 (the known weak draft).

Any time you trade for a starting C that is a win-now move. I can’t believe we have people here trying to argue that the Poeltl move was wasn’t done to increase our win total. The entire purpose of the deal was to make the team better aka increase wins.

Hey everyone, our front office negotiated the Spurs down to just a single first for the 18th best center in the league all while overestimating the capabilities of the team or ignoring 80% of the starters were unrestricted free agents over the next 2 years. Congrats on a job well done guys.

[Thaddy]

It's best case scenario. We still have two picks and the range isn't much different. Klintman v. Buzelis, McCain V. Knecht, and many more. There isn't much of a gap.

[ConSarnit]

Can't say about the Allen bit as I've never heard that rumour. Doesn't really check out either, what reason does any team have to help out the Cavs and destroy their return.

Mitchell was picked 36th overall, not exactly sure what a FRP has to do with anything. I'm applauding their ability to draft a decent C with virtually no cost.

IH is on a 2 year 8m/y contract. He would have been the full time starting centre here, and could have easily thrown another year at him. Or the Masai special and give him a PO on the 3rd year. There is zero chance a guy who just came off a min salary contract is saying no to guaranteed money just to play on the Knicks who finished 37-45 the year prior.

Would claxton have cost more, yes absolutely. I would also take him over Jak 10 times out of 10. He was rumoured in trades a couple years ago, so yeah I would definitely trade for a 23 year old centre with tons of potential over a mid 28 year old.

Like what even is this argument. I have no clue, how people are STILL defending this trade after everything we've all seen.

The Nets gifted Allen to the Cavs because they were looking to clear cap space to sign KD and Kyrie, or they needed a draft pick to move to help them clear salaries, and Allen was sent to the Cavs for that pick. Masai, like many other GMs was probably trying to get in on that deal.

Raps did draft a young C for the future in Koloko. Unfortunately due to health, that didn't work out.

I wouldn't consider IH a long-term solution at C. He is not even NY's preferred option at C, as Mitchell is that, but he is just hurt.

And Yak is a better C than Claxton will ever be.

I don't know why people are so hung up on trading the 8th pick in a weak draft for a good long-term (4-5 year) solution at C.

And I don't know why people can't seem to understand that the opportunity cost extends well beyond the 8th pick in a weak draft.

It has limited our flexibility, it massively devalued our 2023 pick, it cost us a future pick, and has us mired in mediocrity.

Masai himself has literally called the trade a mistake, and you people are still out here defending it. Unbelievable.

I could see the argument for defending the trade at the time. I didn’t agree with it but I could see it. To keep defending the trade is crazy. We’ve realized zero actual benefit from having Poeltl on the team and we’ve clearly hurt our past 2 drafts as a result. It’s one of the worst trades this team has ever made. It has paid no present term benefits and it has actively hurt our future.

[PushDaRock]

Can't say about the Allen bit as I've never heard that rumour. Doesn't really check out either, what reason does any team have to help out the Cavs and destroy their return.

Mitchell was picked 36th overall, not exactly sure what a FRP has to do with anything. I'm applauding their ability to draft a decent C with virtually no cost.

IH is on a 2 year 8m/y contract. He would have been the full time starting centre here, and could have easily thrown another year at him. Or the Masai special and give him a PO on the 3rd year. There is zero chance a guy who just came off a min salary contract is saying no to guaranteed money just to play on the Knicks who finished 37-45 the year prior.

Would claxton have cost more, yes absolutely. I would also take him over Jak 10 times out of 10. He was rumoured in trades a couple years ago, so yeah I would definitely trade for a 23 year old centre with tons of potential over a mid 28 year old.

Like what even is this argument. I have no clue, how people are STILL defending this trade after everything we've all seen.

The Nets gifted Allen to the Cavs because they were looking to clear cap space to sign KD and Kyrie, or they needed a draft pick to move to help them clear salaries, and Allen was sent to the Cavs for that pick. Masai, like many other GMs was probably trying to get in on that deal.

Raps did draft a young C for the future in Koloko. Unfortunately due to health, that didn't work out.

I wouldn't consider IH a long-term solution at C. He is not even NY's preferred option at C, as Mitchell is that, but he is just hurt.

And Yak is a better C than Claxton will ever be.

I don't know why people are so hung up on trading the 8th pick in a weak draft for a good long-term (4-5 year) solution at C.

And I don't know why people can't seem to understand that the opportunity cost extends well beyond the 8th pick in a weak draft.

It has limited our flexibility, it massively devalued our 2023 pick, it cost us a future pick, and has us mired in mediocrity.

Masai himself has literally called the trade a mistake, and you people are still out here defending it. Unbelievable.

With perfect hindsight knowing exactly where we would be at right now, of course Masai probably doesn't make the Poeltl deal. We don't deal in certainties though and it's a game of incomplete information.

You also have to weigh in the potential return Poeltl could get back in the future in judging the trade as a whole. A team like OKC can easily afford to part with a first rounder, maybe even 2 of them for Poeltl who would fill a massive need. If we were to get back a first rounder, the trade looks nowhere near as bad trading the 8th pick in a weaker draft while getting back a competent Center for a couple years plus a first rounder back.

Either way, the Poeltl trade is definitely not the worst decision Masai has made. The Carroll signing was much worse, overpaying and then having to give up a first rounder to unload him was brutal. Although you could kind of argue that cap flexibility gained from dumping him is what allowed us to build the roster for the championship.

[tecumseh18]

Yes, Koloko was on his way to being good. And Nembhard may have dropped to us. You make that trade 10 out 10 times. Not to mention we added PF-SF depth for the 2022 playoff run (needed because of OG's fragility, but it ended up being Scottie who got injured). Thad was also supposed to be a mentor for Scottie, which was a huge driving force for the trade. The Raptors as a franchise are better than the Pistons or Hornets because we understand what "development" means. And not-so-coincidentally, Scottie is so far the only all-star of the 2021 draft class.

No way I trade Poeltl right now for the 8th pick. Poeltl is more valuable than that, and may even net us a couple of OKC's surplus FRPs along with a prospect. Would much rather have a legit C on a tradeable contract than whatever Castle is. So that aspect of the Spurs trade I'm happy with, which is why I've always been on Team Convey. As for the other aspect of the trade - i.e. whether we could have tanked our way to a better pick than Gradey if we didn't trade for Jak - I dunno. IIRC, Dick tended to be mocked in the 6-10 range anyway.

I don't even know where to start with this delusion.
Koloko was maybe on his way to possibly being something, he was far from a lock to be a rotation player. And a defense of the front office that starts with, "they're better than Detroit/Charlotte"?! I'm speechless.

You actually think Toronto is ever going to be in a position to turn down a top-10 pick for a guy who barely even plays 4th quarters for a 25 win team? I'm sure it will happen right after you turn Margot Robbie. Even Masai basically admitted it was a mistake and you guys are still here defending the move "10 out of 10 times".

I'm especially tickled by the argument that Toronto would've picked Dick anyway regardless of whether they drafted higher and its equally idiotic corollary that they would have picked Koloko with the FRP so that trade didn't matter either.

I'd rather be delusional than stupid. Or at least unable to decipher a post without a narrative playing in your head.

If Koloko was healthy and playing, we wouldn't be constantly relitigating trading down in the draft. Would we? Not that the Raptors would ever have chosen Kessler, but did he suddenly turn into Kareem Abdul Jabbar? Unfortunately, and through no fault of the Raptors, Koloko can't play in the league. Bad luck. Move on. BTW, Masai never said that the move was a mistake. You're lying about that.

If you would trade a locked up Poeltl for Castle - or Knecht (lol) - right now, then "I don't even know where to start" with your delusional thinking. Did you actually watch at least the FInal Four? Sure, it's easy to say now that we should been sellers rather than buyers at the time. I would have been happy with that - depending on the return. But the team HAD looked really good later in the 2021-2022 season, and I understand why Masai wanted to see what it would look like with a legit C. After Masai's post-trade presser, the mood of this board was like - "OK, we get why he did it. Let's move on". But many of you refuse to move on, or keep resurfacing like cockroaches.

In mentioning the Pistons and Charlotte, I was explaining why they suck all the time, and contrasting that with the Raptors approach. Once again for you in the back, Scottie is the only all-star so far from the vaunted 2021 draft. We know that the Raptors can draft AND develop (with the help of vets on the roster). That seems to contradict your narrative. Maybe you should change your narrative.

Dick was frequently mocked in the top 10. This is a fact. But if Raptors' pick had been in the 8-12 range in 2023, I'm pretty sure they would have taken Wallace. Will Wallace turn out better than Gradey? Too early to say for sure, but both have talent. OTOH, if we didn't move down in 2022, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have drafted Kessler. At least one commentator, KOC if I recall, had Koloko ranked very close to Kessler. It wouldn't shock me if the Raptors had picked Koloko in the 20s. We needed big man depth. Of course in retrospect we should have kept the pick and drafted Nembhard. But drafts are always crap shoots, especially in the 20s and beyond. And if Koloko could play, he could be really good. There's no certainties with young players, but he definitely showed promise.

All of this is uncertain, and require knowledge of what's actually going on behind the scenes and what deals are being offered. Luck - especially with Koloko - plays a role. So it makes no sense that guys like you speak so definitively and judge so harshly on such matters. It doesn't speak well for you. Are you like this in real life?

[DreamTeam09]

Are you trying to argue that the Poeltl trade was not a win-now move?

Raps FO was pursing Yak for longer than just the trade deadline. The only reason he was finally dealt at the deadline was it was the point at which SAS had to make a decision, and the cost to the Raps was at its lowest.

Had Yak been traded to the Raps in the summer before that season, would you consider it a win now move?

The Raps FO was inquiring in the summer (they knew they needed a C), but the reported cost at the time was 2 FRPs SAS was asking for, and they would have probably been picks in 2023 & 2025. Raps waiting until the deadline got it down to the top 6 protection in 2024, 2025 and 2026, with the low protection to ensure it had a greater chance to convey in 2024 (the known weak draft).

Any time you trade for a starting C that is a win-now move. I can’t believe we have people here trying to argue that the Poeltl move was wasn’t done to increase our win total. The entire purpose of the deal was to make the team better aka increase wins.

Hey everyone, our front office negotiated the Spurs down to just a single first for the 18th best center in the league all while overestimating the capabilities of the team or ignoring 80% of the starters were unrestricted free agents over the next 2 years. Congrats on a job well done guys.

Well when you make such definitive statements like this then there's not much room for bargaining or understanding is there..

If we were to somehow trade for Victor right now, that would be a win now move to you?

I'm noteven disagreeing with you per se', I'm sure mgmt expected more wins when we traded for Jakob, & had fvv og Pascal & Barnes, to act like we expected him to push us to contender status, or we didn't see a semi-long term future with him, or that we CLEARLY didn't want Barnes operating as a C is really disingenuous.

[nikster]

Heat : Not in the playoffs
Clippers : Zubac 13th in the league in BPG.
Wolves : Uh KAT? And Gobert is 6th in the league in BPG
Knicks : Both Robinson/Hartenstein average over a block a game. The latter of which was 18th in the NBA in BPG.
Cavs : Lol wut? Mobley is one of the best shot blockers in the NBA
Pels : eliminated first round
Mavs : The only team that isn't either spacing or shot blocking, and they run a 19 year old rookie centre. BUt they also have 2 of the best shooters in the NBA
Kings : Sabonis shoots 38% from 3

Chandan said non-spacing/non-elite blocking centre. As in one or the other, you focused only on 3pt shooting.

I was focusing on the shooting because Poeltl averaged 1.5 blocks per game. If he's a non elite shot blocker I don't see why your using a cut off of 1 block per game for some of these guys. The only objectively better shot blockers you listed are Gobert and Mobley (but the Cavs start Jarret Allen at Center).

I was not using 1bpg as a cut off, I was using the basic top 20 in the NBA, of which Jak is not on as he does not qualify. He averaged 1.5 or more per game twice in his entire career, both with dog **** SAS teams. He is not an elite shot blocker, and no one in their right mind would ever call him one.

Since 2019 he averages 1.5 blocks in over 320 games.

Never said he's an elite shot blocker, but if he's not guys like Zubac, Hartenstein and Robinson (at least this year) sure as hell aren't

[YogurtProducer]

It should be mandatory reading of who the former 8th overall picks before everyone gets super upset here. (hint - T Ross is arguably top 3 in the last 20 years).

[JB7]

Can't say about the Allen bit as I've never heard that rumour. Doesn't really check out either, what reason does any team have to help out the Cavs and destroy their return.

Mitchell was picked 36th overall, not exactly sure what a FRP has to do with anything. I'm applauding their ability to draft a decent C with virtually no cost.

IH is on a 2 year 8m/y contract. He would have been the full time starting centre here, and could have easily thrown another year at him. Or the Masai special and give him a PO on the 3rd year. There is zero chance a guy who just came off a min salary contract is saying no to guaranteed money just to play on the Knicks who finished 37-45 the year prior.

Would claxton have cost more, yes absolutely. I would also take him over Jak 10 times out of 10. He was rumoured in trades a couple years ago, so yeah I would definitely trade for a 23 year old centre with tons of potential over a mid 28 year old.

Like what even is this argument. I have no clue, how people are STILL defending this trade after everything we've all seen.

The Nets gifted Allen to the Cavs because they were looking to clear cap space to sign KD and Kyrie, or they needed a draft pick to move to help them clear salaries, and Allen was sent to the Cavs for that pick. Masai, like many other GMs was probably trying to get in on that deal.

Raps did draft a young C for the future in Koloko. Unfortunately due to health, that didn't work out.

I wouldn't consider IH a long-term solution at C. He is not even NY's preferred option at C, as Mitchell is that, but he is just hurt.

And Yak is a better C than Claxton will ever be.

I don't know why people are so hung up on trading the 8th pick in a weak draft for a good long-term (4-5 year) solution at C.

And I don't know why people can't seem to understand that the opportunity cost extends well beyond the 8th pick in a weak draft.

It has limited our flexibility, it massively devalued our 2023 pick, it cost us a future pick, and has us mired in mediocrity.

Masai himself has literally called the trade a mistake, and you people are still out here defending it. Unbelievable.

Ok, I get it. We are just on opposite sides here of how to build this team out. You are clearly thinking the Wiz/Pistons approach, which is tear it down, suck for many years, and hope you luck into a generational talent. And any trade that moves the team away from the bottom of the league, is a bad move. Of course that approach has worked out well for so many teams. I would remined you that OKC's generational star was acquired through a trade, and Denver's generational star was a 2nd round pick. Otherwise we are hoping we are lucky to land the 1st pick in a year a Jordan, Shaq, Lebron or Wemby becomes available, which is like once a decade.

I on the other hand actually prefer the approach Masai has taken, to try and develop a competitive team, where young players can grow and develop, and then strategically tank if the opportunity presents itself (bubble year where they got lucky with the 4th pick, and this year where they were unlucky and didn't end up with a top 4 pick).

[JB7]

Are you trying to argue that the Poeltl trade was not a win-now move?

Raps FO was pursing Yak for longer than just the trade deadline. The only reason he was finally dealt at the deadline was it was the point at which SAS had to make a decision, and the cost to the Raps was at its lowest.

Had Yak been traded to the Raps in the summer before that season, would you consider it a win now move?

The Raps FO was inquiring in the summer (they knew they needed a C), but the reported cost at the time was 2 FRPs SAS was asking for, and they would have probably been picks in 2023 & 2025. Raps waiting until the deadline got it down to the top 6 protection in 2024, 2025 and 2026, with the low protection to ensure it had a greater chance to convey in 2024 (the known weak draft).

Any time you trade for a starting C that is a win-now move. I can’t believe we have people here trying to argue that the Poeltl move was wasn’t done to increase our win total. The entire purpose of the deal was to make the team better aka increase wins.

Hey everyone, our front office negotiated the Spurs down to just a single first for the 18th best center in the league all while overestimating the capabilities of the team or ignoring 80% of the starters were unrestricted free agents over the next 2 years. Congrats on a job well done guys.

I get it. You are also in the boat of don't do anything that could result in any wins for the team, so that it could bottom out for years. So win-now isn't try to be a contender, it is literally be at all competent/competitive. You would actually be happy throwing a G-League team out on the floor to lose every game of the season, in the hope that after drafting young talent and subjecting them to that type of losing, they would some how miraculously learn how to win one year.

[ItsDanger]

It should be mandatory reading of who the former 8th overall picks before everyone gets super upset here. (hint - T Ross is arguably top 3 in the last 20 years).

They could trade down to 11th or 13th then. Maybe take a more comprehensive outlook.

[YogurtProducer]

It should be mandatory reading of who the former 8th overall picks before everyone gets super upset here. (hint - T Ross is arguably top 3 in the last 20 years).

They could trade down to 11th or 13th then. Maybe take a more comprehensive outlook.

Be my guest.

[Scase]

The Nets gifted Allen to the Cavs because they were looking to clear cap space to sign KD and Kyrie, or they needed a draft pick to move to help them clear salaries, and Allen was sent to the Cavs for that pick. Masai, like many other GMs was probably trying to get in on that deal.

Raps did draft a young C for the future in Koloko. Unfortunately due to health, that didn't work out.

I wouldn't consider IH a long-term solution at C. He is not even NY's preferred option at C, as Mitchell is that, but he is just hurt.

And Yak is a better C than Claxton will ever be.

I don't know why people are so hung up on trading the 8th pick in a weak draft for a good long-term (4-5 year) solution at C.

And I don't know why people can't seem to understand that the opportunity cost extends well beyond the 8th pick in a weak draft.

It has limited our flexibility, it massively devalued our 2023 pick, it cost us a future pick, and has us mired in mediocrity.

Masai himself has literally called the trade a mistake, and you people are still out here defending it. Unbelievable.

With perfect hindsight knowing exactly where we would be at right now, of course Masai probably doesn't make the Poeltl deal. We don't deal in certainties though and it's a game of incomplete information.

You also have to weigh in the potential return Poeltl could get back in the future in judging the trade as a whole. A team like OKC can easily afford to part with a first rounder, maybe even 2 of them for Poeltl who would fill a massive need. If we were to get back a first rounder, the trade looks nowhere near as bad trading the 8th pick in a weaker draft while getting back a competent Center for a couple years plus a first rounder back.

Either way, the Poeltl trade is definitely not the worst decision Masai has made. The Carroll signing was much worse, overpaying and then having to give up a first rounder to unload him was brutal. Although you could kind of argue that cap flexibility gained from dumping him is what allowed us to build the roster for the championship.

Lol so you can only judge how bad the Jak trade has been, based off some hypothetical return if he even gets traded? Holy ever loving ****, this is a new level of copium.

It is a bad trade, plenty of people said it was the moment it happened, hindsight is not needed. This is easily the worst trade he has made in his tenure here. Top 3 worst decision as well.

[Scase]

I was focusing on the shooting because Poeltl averaged 1.5 blocks per game. If he's a non elite shot blocker I don't see why your using a cut off of 1 block per game for some of these guys. The only objectively better shot blockers you listed are Gobert and Mobley (but the Cavs start Jarret Allen at Center).

I was not using 1bpg as a cut off, I was using the basic top 20 in the NBA, of which Jak is not on as he does not qualify. He averaged 1.5 or more per game twice in his entire career, both with dog **** SAS teams. He is not an elite shot blocker, and no one in their right mind would ever call him one.

Since 2019 he averages 1.5 blocks in over 320 games.

Never said he's an elite shot blocker, but if he's not guys like Zubac, Hartenstein and Robinson (at least this year) sure as hell aren't

No he's not like Zubac, cause zubac isn't elite either. But guess where the clippers are? Cancun. IH and Robinson are a good duo at C, neither of them has to be elite, the knicks always have a good shot blocking presence on the court. They can afford to be good by committee.