Siakam trade for basically nothing is now showing its effect

[TheGeneral99]

if would be funny if the Raptors somehow ended up with 2 lottery picks in the "weakest drafts in recent history"

2023 Masai: "it's the worse draft in recent memory. so Poeltl is worth it"

2024 Masai: "every draft has hidden gems, and we get multiple shots at this draft"

When did Masai say the 2023 draft was the worst in recent memory?

[TheGeneral99]

I mean Masai lost his leverage by desperately holding on to the core, what else could have he done ?

The alternatives were to overpay him or let him walk for nothing. This was the best option at the moment.

ya man, the tank nation was ahead of its time.

I guess after 10 years of calling for a tank and rebuild since the Wiggins sweepstakes in 2014, tank nation finally wins

Congrats!

[OakleyDokely]

The trade is actually looking better right now because the '24 Pacers pick has a shot at being in the early teens as opposed to late teens/early 20s.

[C_Money]

Who are all these other players Mr. Captain Hindsight?

Fred? Who no one expected to get 43m from any team last summer, LOL?

Why don’t you take a look at the 18/19 roster and you’ll find your answer.

This has to be the most annoying repeated false-take on here

There’s nothing false about it. A huge amount of talent left over the years with very little being added and its the reason we’re the 7th worst team in the league right now.

[C_Money]

Who are all these other players Mr. Captain Hindsight?

Fred? Who no one expected to get 43m from any team last summer, LOL?

Why don’t you take a look at the 18/19 roster and you’ll find your answer.

Okay, so let's actually examine this.

You wanted us to trade Kawhi before won the championship in 2019? Are you serious? That's one of the most absurd statements I've ever heard. so your logic is that we should have decided not go for the chip because Kawhi was going to leave so we should've traded him earlier?

You wanted to trade Ibaka and Gasol during a season where we had the 2nd seed and were on pace for 60 wins and took Boston to a 7 game series in the 2nd round? Also, thank god we didn't resign Ibaka and Gasol because both were washed the season after.

We didn't trade Lowry for nothing...we got Precious, which was used in the OG trade to get back Barrett and Quickley.

Anybody else that I'm missing here, lol?

Yeah there is. I told you to look up the roster didn’t I?

[aroc23]

The trade is actually looking better right now because the '24 Pacers pick has a shot at being in the early teens as opposed to late teens/early 20s.

Agreed. At the time it looked like the trade would for sure push the Pacers into a top 4 seed and hence a pick in the 20-24 range. It could still happen but I am very surprised that with 19 games left the Pacers are only 1.5 games ahead of the 13th worst record.

That said it is so close from 13-23 than the Pacers could still end up with the 23rd pick with a big win streak.

A loss tonight to the Mavs moves the Raptors to only 1 game head of the Grizzlies and moves the Pacers back to 15th. If the Warriors win tonight against the Bulls it would move the Pacers to tied for the 14th worst record!

[TheGeneral99]

Why don’t you take a look at the 18/19 roster and you’ll find your answer.

This has to be the most annoying repeated false-take on here

There’s nothing false about it. A huge amount of talent left over the years with very little being added and its the reason we’re the 7th worst team in the league right now.

This is what happens to teams who go all-in for a championship and it WORKED.

We traded for Kawhi on a rental for 1 year and it was a long shot resigning him. We won a chip, but lost him for nothing. Would you change that? Are really suggesting that we forego our title run to get assets for Kawhi? LOL?

We traded multiple assets including Derozan, Poeltl, JV, Delon, Miles and picks for Kawhi and Gasol...we had to give up a lot...but guess what? IT WORKED.

In 2020 we were a team on pace for 60 wins! That's right...60. We were just seconds away from possibly reaching the ECF. Are you suggesting that we should've traded Ibaka and Gasol in the midst of a season when we were a contender. Name me a team that traded their best power forward and center in the middle of a season that they were on pace for 60 wins?

Sure, we lost talent, but you providing no context is just plain disingenuous.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

"Weakest draft in recent history" is such BS. The reality is that no one really knows how a draft class will turn out until years later.

A lot of people said that the 2020 draft was a really weak draft class:

https://www.businessinsider.com/nba-draft-top-picks-weak-class-2020-11

So let's look at some notable players that went in the 1st round:

Edwards - Currently a top 10 player.
Lamelo - all-star caliber player
Haliburton - all-star caliber player
Maxey - all-star caliber player

And other guys like Patrick Williams, Okongwu, Toppin, Quickley, Avdija, Stewart, Anthony, Green etc. are productive NBA players.

So not an incredible draft, but still a solid draft with multiple all-stars and many other productive role players.

an exception does not mean it can hold true for this class.

There are going to be good role players in every draft class.

As I said it's very difficult to tell how good a draft will be...there are way too many variables involved and you are often dealing with potential. You have a lot 19 year old freshman with "potential"...some turn out to be busts, some turn out to be average, some turn out good. It's very hit or miss.

I'm saying these predictions usually are way off. Remember in 2014, they predicted it was going to be one of the best classes ever. What happened? Wiggins never lived up to the potential, Parker was a bust and other guys like Vonleh, Stauskas, Payton, Exum etc. also turned out to be busts. The best player from that draft was an out of shape center by the name of Nikola Jokic who went at 41.

thats why i have that phrase in quotation marks man. if I actually meant it, it would not be quoted.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

I mean Masai lost his leverage by desperately holding on to the core, what else could have he done ?

The alternatives were to overpay him or let him walk for nothing. This was the best option at the moment.

ya man, the tank nation was ahead of its time.

hours of NBA 2K management paying off

[KrazyP]

Why don’t you take a look at the 18/19 roster and you’ll find your answer.

Okay, so let's actually examine this.

You wanted us to trade Kawhi before won the championship in 2019? Are you serious? That's one of the most absurd statements I've ever heard. so your logic is that we should have decided not go for the chip because Kawhi was going to leave so we should've traded him earlier?

You wanted to trade Ibaka and Gasol during a season where we had the 2nd seed and were on pace for 60 wins and took Boston to a 7 game series in the 2nd round? Also, thank god we didn't resign Ibaka and Gasol because both were washed the season after.

We didn't trade Lowry for nothing...we got Precious, which was used in the OG trade to get back Barrett and Quickley.

Anybody else that I'm missing here, lol?

Yeah there is. I told you to look up the roster didn’t I?

Gasol, Green, Ibaka had ZERO value. Too old, too washed.

Kawhi had no intention of staying here. Do you think he should have been traded before the playoff run?

Lowry in his mid 30s had very little value. He was the basically the point guard equivalent of Paul Millsap. How much was Millsap worth at the same age? Another comparison could be Mike Conley? He was dealt to the Wolves for fodder. Getting Precious which is about the equivalent of a 1st is fair value.

OG had value. Barrett and Quickley is a really good return.

VanVleet was a better asset than this board thought he was. Getting a mid-1st should have been feasible....not getting that is not a huge deal.

Powell for Trent? Fair tradeoff, especially considering Trent is 5-6 yrs younger.

Siakam was the only asset that was completely bungled which this thread is about. Management backed themselves into a corner and lost all leverage....they should get heat for that. If the Siakam return had been better (Kuminga, Johnson or Mathurin), I would have no issues with the overall asset management.

[KrazyP]

Pacers fan - Siakam trade for Brown and 3 picks has shown nothing in the effect. 11-11, .500 ball with Pacers playing worse than before the Siakam trade

This has more to do with post injury Haliburton than anything else.

Oct/Nov/Dec he was playing like an MVP. Jan/Feb/Mar his play has completely fallen off....doesnt even look like an all-star....no longer aggressive.

Oct/Nov/Dec. vs Jan/Feb/Mar

FG% - .502. vs. .446
3P% - .415 vs .319
AST - 12.8 vs. 9.5
PTS - 24.6. vs. 15.9

Haliburton has been basically putting up VanVleet like numbers so far in 2024. He's clearly not right and probably should have taken time off to get his hamstring healed up properly.

[___Rand___]

Pacers fan - Siakam trade for Brown and 3 picks has shown nothing in the effect. 11-11, .500 ball with Pacers playing worse than before the Siakam trade

It's not for nothing. You guys got a great ISO guy and a top 5 PF in the league for fries and a cap filler (Brown). Your misuse is your fault. Your young guys need to learn how to play defense. That's causing you more problems than anything (Hali injuries as well). Pascal gives you a player who can get buckets in half court in playoffs that you didn't have before. Honestly Rick needs to watch Raptors game tapes more. The ISO sets for pascal are trash.

[Scase]

Trade isn’t finished. We’re clearly not keeping Bruce brown so let’s see what we get in that deal. See who we get with the draft picks, etc. I’m deeply disappointed with brown so far but his age and past work still make him worth a 1st round pick. Think we can get a second for Jordan too.

Yeah, I'm tired of the constant "Just wait until the deadline/off season, we'll definitely trade him and get value then." It's always wait, and then you wait and you either lose a player for nothing, or get a weak return.

Browns entire value was that he could have the last year declined. Now, he cannot be traded without the raps picking up that last year. And with the way he's been playing, why would anyone want to trade anything of value for that.

Their hope is admirable considering our FO has whiffed on nearly everything the past 4 years.

This is the part that is the most frustrating, I don't know how you can keep seeing misses and have faith lol. The only thing I trust this FO for anymore, is drafting.

[mrdressup]

Siakam was not traded for nothing. Nothing is what we would have in hand had we gone forward with our plan to not resign him. Hr would have walked.

When you finally decide that you are not resigning a guy to that multi year mega contract you go out and get what you can for him. We avoided the FVV situation where we thought we could resign him. In that case we waned to retain him.

We decided that with Siakam we were not interested in resigning him to his terms. All's fair. We are where we are by design. Part of the equation is picks, cap space and flexibility for the rebuild. Take note that having an expensive Siakam on the team is NOT purely a good for a rebuild. We could not make the playoffs with a core Siakam, FVV, OG and Barnes and what we had around it.

The task is now to build a better team. We are supposed to be bad right now. The smellier the better.

I'd bet we are in the playoffs this year if we resigned FVV. Couple him with a drastically improved 3rd year Scottie and we'd be up there around the 6th seed (maybe better).

You would have one first round exit and then you would not have choice but to lose someone. There was no paying everyone to keep them. The experiment was over. The value of one playoff round loss is something the franchise had to swallow. It stings less than sucking for 4 more years while being capped out.

[DutchCanuck]

This is a really bad take, let 's wait to see what the Draft Picks yield, Siakim may not even resign in Indy.

[BlackThought]

Problem isn't the Siakam trade, it's not trading Brown at the deadline.

[Anticon]

Kelly/Ochai/Brown aren’t lighting the world on fire b it we still got a couple more picks. Hopefully trade Browns useless ass too for something.

I can’t believe dudes here actually think these guys comprise a decent return for a player of Siakam’s calibre. We clearly sold low because we held on for too long.

What was the great package out there for Siakam? I really don't think he had much of a market. Just not that well regarded as a max player around the league.

[Vampirate]

Yeah, I'm tired of the constant "Just wait until the deadline/off season, we'll definitely trade him and get value then." It's always wait, and then you wait and you either lose a player for nothing, or get a weak return.

Browns entire value was that he could have the last year declined. Now, he cannot be traded without the raps picking up that last year. And with the way he's been playing, why would anyone want to trade anything of value for that.

Their hope is admirable considering our FO has whiffed on nearly everything the past 4 years.

This is the part that is the most frustrating, I don't know how you can keep seeing misses and have faith lol. The only thing I trust this FO for anymore, is drafting.

Tbh everything over the years can be attributed to misguided direction.

Masai has both proven that he can build up and also that he can fumble the ball (last couple of years).

His future with the team basically revolves around Barnes.

Just because he has been bad the last couple of years doesn't mean he can't be good going forwards.

Likewise, just because he was good in the past doesn't mean he can't be bad moving forwards.

Instead of calling for his head (firing) or calling him a genius, let's just wait and see.

[Chandan]

wrong thread.

[wegotthabeet]

The same boring ass threads.