SoTD: Bargnani still decent at Post-up Defence

[supersub15]

Using Synergy Sports' database, I checked out Bargs' defensive numbers on post-ups and he's still showing decently:

Here are Andrea's numbers, as well as some other bigs from the East:

Code: Select all

                  Plays   PPP*    FG%    Rank
Andrea Bargnani    65     0.94   0.466    67
Amir Johnson       33     0.85   0.500    51
Chris Bosh         44     0.66   0.330     9
Brook Lopez        71     0.96   0.483    70
Z. Ilgauskas       50     0.72   0.405    19
Amare Stoudamire   66     1.05   0.549    76
Spencer Hawes      30     0.83   0.346    45
Joakim Noah        48     1.13   0.632    83
Roy Hibbert        42     0.74   0.357    24
Andrew Bogut       23     0.78   0.389    -- (not ranked)
Anderson Varejao   56     0.52   0.220     4
Ben Wallace        63     0.86   0.463    54
Al Horford         70     0.87   0.429    56
Javale McGee       44     1.09   0.559    80
Nazr Mohammed      51     0.92   0.436    63

*PPP = Points per play

Shaq had only 10 post-ups against him, lol. I guesss he'll take it as an insult and just eat you.

Bargs has a higher PPP than Amir, because of more shooting fouls. Surprised at Noah's numbers.

[djsunyc]

i'm not a big stats guy but when someone posts up noah 1 on 1, he's allowing over a point per post up? does that mean his man to man defense is the worst of the players you posted?

[supersub15]

i'm not a big stats guy but when someone posts up noah 1 on 1, he's allowing over a point per post up? does that mean his man to man defense is the worst of the players you posted?

Correct.

[SDM]

The Gibson/Noah frontcourt, I imagine, would get pushed around a lot. I haven't seen any of their games, but Boozer is certainly a bigger body than Gibson.

[djsunyc]

i'm not a big stats guy but when someone posts up noah 1 on 1, he's allowing over a point per post up? does that mean his man to man defense is the worst of the players you posted?

Correct.

does that mean, according to synergy that noah isn't as good a defender as most people think?

[supersub15]

i'm not a big stats guy but when someone posts up noah 1 on 1, he's allowing over a point per post up? does that mean his man to man defense is the worst of the players you posted?

Correct.

does that mean, according to synergy that noah isn't as good a defender as most people think?

His overall PPP is 0.98 on 138 plays, i.e. he makes up for his bad post-up defence by doing other things + not all plays are tracked (some are given to "team"). Plus, there's time to rectify those numbers.

Bargs, overall, is at 0.99

[MEDIC]

Yeah, the first thing that stood out to me was Noah's numbers. McGee too (he should get better though)

The other guy that REALLY stood out to me (because I've wanted us to trade for him) was Varejao. Amazing numbers. People keep saying how overpaid he is, but I don't agree. I think his contract is just right.

Varejao would look great next to Bargnani.

Make a pitch for Iggy & Varejao & we'll be a decent team.

[Indeed]

i'm not a big stats guy but when someone posts up noah 1 on 1, he's allowing over a point per post up? does that mean his man to man defense is the worst of the players you posted?

It depends, I guess. Stats is a thing that can indicate problems, but not necessary point out problems.
If Noah faces all his post up against elite players (Howard for example), then you have Bargnani against a less talent player, there might be difference in quality I suppose. Their teammates might help as well, if they have another shot blocker (Josh Smith for example), then their man defense might be better on paper.

So Bargnani might be a decent post-up defender, and perhaps its good to further improve it by reviewing the data.

[LLJ]

Bosh is doing better than I thought. I always thought he was very weak in this area.

[djsunyc]

Make a pitch for Iggy & Varejao & we'll be a decent team.

it would be tough to come up with a better complimentary duo to put around bargnani.

verejao just turned 28. and iggy is 26. bargs just turned 25.

salary wise, those 3 would combine for around $30-35 mil of the cap per year.

i think you can get 4 quality years from that trio.

we would then have to find a sg and bench guys that can hit jumpers.

we can get iggy right now with peja's deal. i'm curious to see what it would take to get verejao - i don't think the TPE would be enough.

[djsunyc]

i'm not a big stats guy but when someone posts up noah 1 on 1, he's allowing over a point per post up? does that mean his man to man defense is the worst of the players you posted?

It depends, I guess. Stats is a thing that can indicate problems, but not necessary point out problems.
If Noah faces all his post up against elite players (Howard for example), then you have Bargnani against a less talent player, there might be difference in quality I suppose. Their teammates might help as well, if they have another shot blocker (Josh Smith for example), then their man defense might be better on paper.

So Bargnani might be a decent post-up defender, and perhaps its good to further improve it by reviewing the data.

good point about quality of player that's doing the actual posting up.

[MEDIC]

Make a pitch for Iggy & Varejao & we'll be a decent team.

it would be tough to come up with a better complimentary duo to put around bargnani.

verejao just turned 28. and iggy is 26. bargs just turned 25.

salary wise, those 3 would combine for around $30-35 mil of the cap per year.

i think you can get 4 quality years from that trio.

we would then have to find a sg and bench guys that can hit jumpers.

we can get iggy right now with peja's deal. i'm curious to see what it would take to get verejao - i don't think the TPE would be enough.

Iggy, Sideshow, Bargnani is pretty solid. You add a developing Derozan & Bayless to that list, the team could be pretty damn good 2 years from now. It might have a short shelf life, but I don't care. We have other young players waiting to back them up.

[Scott Carefoot]

I'm working on PF ranking post right now. With everyone talking about what a failure Bosh has supposedly been in Miami, how do we reconcile his outstanding post defence numbers here? Is he actually a good defender, after all?

[RocLaFamilia]

Bosh better post-up defender than Noah and Horford?


Interesting.....

[MEDIC]

we can get iggy right now with peja's deal. i'm curious to see what it would take to get verejao - i don't think the TPE would be enough.

I think Cleveland would have a pretty difficult time saying no to TPE & a draft pick. They are in a terrible financial situation right now. Shedding salary for nothing would sound pretty sweet to them. Plus they need to start tanking again.

Varejao's contract is long. They must be tempted to get it off the books.

[bthrawn]

I'm working on PF ranking post right now. With everyone talking about what a failure Bosh has supposedly been in Miami, how do we reconcile his outstanding post defence numbers here? Is he actually a good defender, after all?

I have the same question. The thought process has been that the heat are weak inside and last year bosh wasn't even close to being this good a post defender. Some thing looks off here. What about the celtics? If bosh is showing as a better defender than KG then I would think something very weird is going on.

[MacDaddy]

Bosh is doing better than I thought. I always thought he was very weak in this area.

Playing next to James, Wade, Haslem, Anthony, Ilgauskas there are not as many help demands. He was considered a strong defensive presence on Team USA as well.

[MEDIC]

I'm working on PF ranking post right now. With everyone talking about what a failure Bosh has supposedly been in Miami, how do we reconcile his outstanding post defence numbers here? Is he actually a good defender, after all?

I always thought Bosh was capable of being a very good defender (as shown early in his career & his time with the olympic team). He just didn't do it here after his first 2 years.

Problem with the Raps is that he always wanted to stay away from foul trouble. On Miami, he doesn't have to worry about fouling out. It is more important to play tougher defense.

Plus, Miami is one of the better defensive teams in the league. He has Big Z, Haslem, the Canucks, Damp & Lebron to back him up in the post.

[Indeed]

i'm not a big stats guy but when someone posts up noah 1 on 1, he's allowing over a point per post up? does that mean his man to man defense is the worst of the players you posted?

It depends, I guess. Stats is a thing that can indicate problems, but not necessary point out problems.
If Noah faces all his post up against elite players (Howard for example), then you have Bargnani against a less talent player, there might be difference in quality I suppose. Their teammates might help as well, if they have another shot blocker (Josh Smith for example), then their man defense might be better on paper.

So Bargnani might be a decent post-up defender, and perhaps its good to further improve it by reviewing the data.

good point about quality of player that's doing the actual posting up.

But SS has the videos, and most likely he verified that maybe Noah is not a good post up player.
Also someone mentioned their team lacked the size they need to defend multiple bigs.

And as for Bosh, I am not sure who he is facing too, I am assuming he is not playing against opposing C, so he can be more very effective with his match up.

[MEDIC]

I'm working on PF ranking post right now. With everyone talking about what a failure Bosh has supposedly been in Miami, how do we reconcile his outstanding post defence numbers here? Is he actually a good defender, after all?

I have the same question. The thought process has been that the heat are weak inside and last year bosh wasn't even close to being this good a post defender. Some thing looks off here. What about the celtics? If bosh is showing as a better defender than KG then I would think something very weird is going on.

Better overall team defense? He's obviously not a better 1 on 1 post defender than a lot of the guys listed.