Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani

[Too Late Crew]

If Bargs was playing better, I'd be all for moving him but, moving him now would be selling low. Back in the day, everyone was clamouring for a Vince trade and, we ended up selling him low and we all know how that turned out.

I'm not in a rush to move Amir but, I wouldn't hesistate to make it known that if you can give back something pretty good in return, I'd make him available.

For example, Denver probably wouldn't do this and, Iggy probably has a trade restriction but, Amir and Jose for Iggy and Randolph sounds pretty fair on paper. Denver gets some financial relief and, we get the best player.

This really is not an issue.

Bargs has bad games like now. He has some good games. He's been in the NBA for over 400 games. If he puts together 10 games that are good it won't make his value any higher. Outside of injuries his value is what it is. its not going up or down based on any 10 games this year. Heck it won't change unless we are talking about a 40 game chunk one way or another and even then its still going to be heavily influenced by his past performance given he's 27 years old.

[Big Shot]

To be honest, I don't think AB will come off the bench any time soon if no drastic changes to the roster. And, to have drastic changes you have to think AB will be moved alone or in a package. Either way, it's not gonna happen.

[ruckus]

If Bargs was playing better, I'd be all for moving him but, moving him now would be selling low. Back in the day, everyone was clamouring for a Vince trade and, we ended up selling him low and we all know how that turned out.

I'm not in a rush to move Amir but, I wouldn't hesistate to make it known that if you can give back something pretty good in return, I'd make him available.

For example, Denver probably wouldn't do this and, Iggy probably has a trade restriction but, Amir and Jose for Iggy and Randolph sounds pretty fair on paper. Denver gets some financial relief and, we get the best player.

This really is not an issue.

Bargs has bad games like now. He has some good games. He's been in the NBA for over 400 games. If he puts together 10 games that are good it won't make his value any higher. Outside of injuries his value is what it is. its not going up or down based on any 10 games this year. Heck it won't change unless we are talking about a 40 game chunk one way or another and even then its still going to be heavily influenced by his past performance given he's 27 years old.

I'm obviously not a GM but, if I were, I'd be looking closely at Bargs right now to see if he can get anywhere close to last year's "13 game stretch". Right now, he is so far off that it looks more and more like an anomaly than a potential ceiling.

However, I don't see how his current play wouldn't be an issue when trying to trade him. Yes, he is a known commodity but, he probably still has the "potential" tag still stuck on him. Teams are always willing to give #1 picks a chance to see if they pan out to what they were supposed to be. Thats why Kwame Brown is still employed.

[Dr Positivity]

Hot Trash Bargnani and Valanciunas need to be separated. Playing a rookie who's late on plays a lot beside Hot Trash Bargnani is not what you want.

I know the sentimental choice is putting Hot Trash Bargnani on the bench, but in reality benching Valanciunas is the better fit. Hot Trash Bargnani is a better fit for our starting lineup because we need scoring and spacing. Amir is a better version of Valanciunas right now.

[Homer Jay]

Hot Trash Bargnani and Valanciunas need to be separated. Playing a rookie who's late on plays a lot beside Hot Trash Bargnani is not what you want.

I know the sentimental choice is putting Hot Trash Bargnani on the bench, but in reality benching Valanciunas is the better fit. Hot Trash Bargnani is a better fit for our starting lineup because we need scoring and spacing. Amir is a better version of Valanciunas right now.

Ultimately you are bang on. The team decided in '03-'04 it had to separate the lazy Davis from the rookie Bosh, and the same might apply here. Benching Bargs might ultimately destroy his trade value, so the rookie might have to pay the price for him... for now... until he is moved. Also with Lowry out our starting five with McGuire would really really lack scoring without Bargs.

[JN]

I prefer Zhi Zhi Bargnani to Hot Trash Bargnani.

[Rhettmatic]

I'm not sure if anyone posted this Eric Koreen article, Time to stop judging Bargnani on potential

Andrea Bargnani’s offensive game is, in theory, beautiful. The Toronto Raptors big man has the habit of putting together spurts during which he is unstoppable. He will take one controlled dribble to the side to elude a too-slow defender and unleash a feathery jumper. The ball will dip just in time, splashing through the mesh just inside the back rim.

During those spurts, he will sometimes go a few steps further. He will catch the ball on the baseline, take a few dribbles to blow by a defender, twirl and dunk the ball on the other side of the rim. Or he will get the ball in the post, dribble and turn around for a hook shot. He will get to double digits in scoring in an instant on the strength of these surges. For all of his flaws, Bargnani is tremendously gifted.

But as the years roll on, it is becoming more difficult to believe in those moments. Bargnani’s drawbacks are well documented, but even his offence exists more in the speculative world than the practical one. Bargnani has started the season averaging 16.2 points per game on 36% shooting. Following a three-game stretch in which he shot worse than 33% from the floor, his 7-for-19 effort against Orlando on Sunday was almost welcome.

[Indeed]

Sportsnet also has a similar article: Things Going Downhill For Bargnani

This year, Bargnani has struggled to find consistency and the gloves have come off.

The one quote everyone keeps pointing to was when “Dwane Casey told the National Post before the season, "“I’m going to push him and pull him as much as I can. But it’s up to Andrea. The talent is there. He’s the only guy that can pull it out from himself. I think every method in the world, every scenario has been played for him for this organization.”

That seemed to signal that the Raptors were starting to realize what Bargnani's ceiling was: a strong scorer with a limited post-up game who doesn't rebound aggresively although he had improved on the defensive end of the floor.

Maybe the pressure is getting to Bargnani as this team has missed the playoffs for four years running and the slow start points to that streak continuing.

“Me personally, I would never say it’s too early to worry,” Bargnani told the Sporting News. “It has been four years now that we have had a losing record, so it’s definitely not early for me, Jose (Calderon), and the other guys that have been around. Nobody is thinking that it’s too early. We definitely have to turn it around and we are going to play better starting now.”

[MrBojangelz71]

There will come a time (if he remains with this team) where his value is clearly laid out. I believe that time will be in the playoffs, mid 4rth quarter were the opposing team has locked us down, and we hit a wall. That is when Andrea will step up, make big shots, give us some instant offense, and help us get a W.

In order to score some theoretical key winning hoops in the 4th 1/4 of a playoff game you need to GET to the play-offs. As long as Bargs has been a major part of this team we have not MADE the playoffs.

I'm glad you are so sure that if that day ever comes that he will come through. The last time he was IN the playoffs (and playing a secondary role) he averaged 6 ppg less than 2 rpg and shot 33% so I'm sure your faith in his play off clutch performance ability has some other basis in fact.

Same can be said for Derozan, Amir, Ed ect...

This team's inability to make the playoffs has as much to do with Andrea as it does with those said players. To add to that, this team has been led by CB4 to non playoff years as well, but we would never have blamed that solely on Bosh, would we?

And while he didn't lead us to the playoffs, he has been a key cog in helping us make the playoffs 2 of the last 6 seasons.

So, while its easy to equate our non-playoff years to one player, that would be a very ignorant equation to make.

And sorry, but I find it funny how you cite Andrea's stats in the playoffs, when you indirectly state he didn't have an impact on getting us into the playoffs.

Sorry you cannot have it both ways. Obviously the 2 seasons he did play in playoff games, he was a rookie and sophomore. His game has evolved since those days and I would feel very confident in stating he would have a much bigger impact than he did back then as well. Further to that, His display in game 3 of the Nets series was pivotal in us winning that game. He came off the bench and gave us instant offense, nailing key shots that gave us a lead we never let go of.

Like I said, I don't expect Andrea to be the leader of this team, guiding us to the promise land. But I do believe he can give us necessary elements that do allow us that type of success. Stop expecting him to live up to the standards that were set the moment he was taken 1st overall, it's not going to happen. He isn’t a center piece, a leader ect,.... He is a solid player that does a few things exceptionally well, and as long as he is utilized in a fashion that hides his weaknesses and exploits his strengths, he has value.

[James_Raptors]

Good article Rhett, thank you for posting that.
Once/if the fans start getting on Bargs the writing will be on the wall.
I'm not calling for it to happen, but if Leaf fans can run Larry -fricken- Murphy out of turn (and to another stanley cup /w Detroit) then I wouldn't be surprised.

(I am not comparing a HOF'ers talent to Bargs, for one split second)

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

Good article Rhett, thank you for posting that.
Once/if the fans start getting on Bargs the writing will be on the wall.
I'm not calling for it to happen, but if Leaf fans can run Larry -fricken- Murphy out of turn (and to another stanley cup /w Detroit) then I wouldn't be surprised.

(I am not comparing a HOF'ers talent to Bargs, for one split second)

I was also posted in the Daily Papers thread, but why would someone ever look there.

Thanks Rhett!!11!

[Dalek]

This has already been stated since the beginning that this is Bargnani's year to step up. I guess him ducking out of media sessions post-game has influenced this media attack, but to me, this is nothing new.

His best shot is to get things going is this week. He can gain some momentum against some pretty weak defending teams.

Philly: Maybe Thad Young creates match-up problems for him on defense, but he should have his way on offense. Kwame Brown, Hawes will also get turns but neither are capable.

Charlotte: Brendan Haywood cannot guard him. Period. Biyombo will also bite on every pump fake.

Detroit: Greg Monroe/JMax have no chance as Monroe is below average this year and Maxiell is too small.

I am calling for him to average 23+ PPG this week. This is his time to step-up.

[James_Raptors]

Good article Rhett, thank you for posting that.
Once/if the fans start getting on Bargs the writing will be on the wall.
I'm not calling for it to happen, but if Leaf fans can run Larry -fricken- Murphy out of turn (and to another stanley cup /w Detroit) then I wouldn't be surprised.

(I am not comparing a HOF'ers talent to Bargs, for one split second)

I was also posted in the Daily Papers thread, but why would someone ever look there.

Thanks Rhett!!11!

I skipped to the end after seeing the fake boobs
But I saw it had been bumped and actually just read it over there too, before responding to this post.

[Tim Horton]

the time Andrea, BC and Calderon are gone is the time we begin to recover.

[Too Late Crew]

. He is a solid player that does a few things exceptionally well, and as long as he is utilized in a fashion that hides his weaknesses and exploits his strengths, he has value.

I keep hearing this but I have yet to see any truth in it. What does he do EXCEPTIONALLY well. Don't say score either because his scoring efficiency is no where NEAR exceptional.

We do know he is exceptionally BAD at some things. Rebounding and Team D. Its not in dispute. What exactly is he EXCEPTIONALLY good at to offset this?

Why don't you point out his "exceptional" skills and we'll go from there.

[James_Raptors]

. He is a solid player that does a few things exceptionally well, and as long as he is utilized in a fashion that hides his weaknesses and exploits his strengths, he has value.

I keep hearing this but I have yet to see any truth in it. What does he do EXCEPTIONALLY well. Don't say score either because his scoring efficiency is no where NEAR exceptional.

We do know he is exceptionally BAD at some things. Rebounding and Team D. Its not in dispute. What exactly is he EXCEPTIONALLY good at to offset this?

Why don't you point out his "exceptional" skills and we'll go from there.

Oh, oh, "raises hand" can I answer this question?
Please. Pretty please!
(my wife is a teacher, can you tell?)

[Scase]

. He is a solid player that does a few things exceptionally well, and as long as he is utilized in a fashion that hides his weaknesses and exploits his strengths, he has value.

I keep hearing this but I have yet to see any truth in it. What does he do EXCEPTIONALLY well. Don't say score either because his scoring efficiency is no where NEAR exceptional.

We do know he is exceptionally BAD at some things. Rebounding and Team D. Its not in dispute. What exactly is he EXCEPTIONALLY good at to offset this?

Why don't you point out his "exceptional" skills and we'll go from there.

Seriously. He hasn't done anything exceptional in his entire career.

[Big Shot]

Caliper test.

[Scase]

Caliper test.

That was before he was drafted

[junot111]

Sell low.