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OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA his

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Post#301 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:22 am by Volcano

lucky777s wrote:I only opened this thread to see all the crybabys whine about another Drummond thread.

But I can't pass up this BC quote:
We certainly recognized the extraordinary talent that Andre has," said Raptors G.M. Bryan Colangelo, "but the fit just wasn't right for our team


Truer words have never been spoken BC, you useless turd of a GM. God forbid we have two potentially dominant bigs on this team. What on earth would we do. The horror.

Maybe this is what BC meant when he said it is not a talent issue - we have none, so its not an issue.

Another 11/11/2 game for Drum tonight.


lol..look what BC has turned our fanbase into

david5773 wrote:Close this thread the drummond talk is getting old, get off his d***


Bargnani iz de best! lulz, drummand cant shot threes
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Post#302 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:28 am by Phenomenologist

Hero wrote:Not only does Drummond have amazing potential and has had some monster game this year against quality opponents, he is also very consistent in his play. Every time I look at his performances I can't help but be wowed. At 8th pick we didn't go for the obvious choice and instead reached. Another horrible move for a horrible franchise.


Taking Ross over Drummond was basically Araujo all over again. Except it's even worse this time because I would argue that perennial all-star vs borderline starter is worse than solid starter versus non-NBA player.

Oh, and that quote by BC is obvious spin; there is no way even BC is that dumb. I hate the guy, but if he knew the results, he would have trammed Drummond in a heartbeat, fit/developing two bigs/etc. be damned.

And where is that moron kurtz? Yah, he's already got a man's body, so despite the fact that he's only 19, he won't be improving his body at all going forward. Sigh, why can't people understand gradations?
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Post#303 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:46 am by DHK

Phenomenologist wrote:
Hero wrote:Not only does Drummond have amazing potential and has had some monster game this year against quality opponents, he is also very consistent in his play. Every time I look at his performances I can't help but be wowed. At 8th pick we didn't go for the obvious choice and instead reached. Another horrible move for a horrible franchise.


Taking Ross over Drummond was basically Araujo all over again. Except it's even worse this time because I would argue that perennial all-star vs borderline starter is worse than solid starter versus non-NBA player.

Oh, and that quote by BC is obvious spin; there is no way even BC is that dumb. I hate the guy, but if he knew the results, he would have trammed Drummond in a heartbeat, fit/developing two bigs/etc. be damned.

And where is that moron kurtz? Yah, he's already got a man's body, so despite the fact that he's only 19, he won't be improving his body at all going forward. Sigh, why can't people understand gradations?

No..Araujo is a special case..
You're blowing it out of porportion.
Nobody expected Araujo to be picked that high, he was projected in the late 20's or even in the 2nd round in the mock drafts. The pick came out of nowhere. He was stiff, unproven, had no skills outside of a big frame a soft jumper. Ross was actually projected to be picked by the low-mid teens. So it wasnt a far of a reach.

Given the circumstances right now, sure, I'd pick Drummond over Ross 10/10 times however, knowing you had 3 young bigs, Bargnani was a player the Raptors were still high on, of those bigs, two are invested in Amir/Val, one of which have already proven to be solid and another expected to be top tier of C with seasoning; it doesnt make sense to pick him at that time. It doesnt make sense unless youre trying to package a young player + assets for a stud. And there was no one actively trading around a sure thing/stud player ( Harden was not made available since he wasnt even in negotiations for a new contract at that point).

Let's say we did pick Drummond, where does it guarantee success that the growth he's having in Detroit would equate to the growth he would have here? Drummond is progressing nicely since as stubborn as Lawrence Frank is, he gets spot up minutes since after Monroe and Maxiell, there isnt much (CV has been a surprise this season but a complete afterthought going into it), and he's used to minutes to his fullest.
Going into the season, you're look at Drummond behind 4 big men. Where is the minutes allocated to Drummond in that case? Garbage minutes? It's comparable to the Miinny situation where they were picking PGs although their PG line was full or even the Philly situation with Vucevic (somewhat comparable). There is no guarantee he would have sprouted the same way as he is in Detroit. Granted he is still a special talent but the situation he is in is all too perfect for him.

This is all hindsight and absolutely ridiculous. It's perfectly reasonable to be a fan of Drummond. It's also perfectly reasonable to hate BC (I hate him too). It is not perfectly reasonable to go look "Why the hell didnt we pick Drummond look at him flourish and killing everyone, and coming to his own form OMG" and making OT threads about how much of a mistake and how pitiful this franchise is for passing up on him. If you want to follow that trend, might as welll make continuous threads about why we passed on Rondo, Ginobili, Parker, Millsap, Granger, Iggy etc. You can look at a player going into a draft and speculate "oh that kid's got talent, he's going to be something special in the league" however that doesnt equate to the player guaranteed 100% to being someone special and panning out exactly as his potential dictates (ie see Gerald Green for example)

Seriously, why cant Raptor fans (and by quoting you I'm not directly pointing at you) just cheer for the damn players on the team like fans are supposed to instead of making continual complaints about what we could of had, or what we dont have better.
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Post#304 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:08 am by Phenomenologist

DHK wrote:
Phenomenologist wrote:
Hero wrote:Not only does Drummond have amazing potential and has had some monster game this year against quality opponents, he is also very consistent in his play. Every time I look at his performances I can't help but be wowed. At 8th pick we didn't go for the obvious choice and instead reached. Another horrible move for a horrible franchise.


Taking Ross over Drummond was basically Araujo all over again. Except it's even worse this time because I would argue that perennial all-star vs borderline starter is worse than solid starter versus non-NBA player.

Oh, and that quote by BC is obvious spin; there is no way even BC is that dumb. I hate the guy, but if he knew the results, he would have trammed Drummond in a heartbeat, fit/developing two bigs/etc. be damned.

And where is that moron kurtz? Yah, he's already got a man's body, so despite the fact that he's only 19, he won't be improving his body at all going forward. Sigh, why can't people understand gradations?

No..Araujo is a special case..
You're blowing it out of porportion.
Nobody expected Araujo to be picked that high, he was projected in the late 20's or even in the 2nd round in the mock drafts. The pick came out of nowhere. He was stiff, unproven, had no skills outside of a big frame a soft jumper. Ross was actually projected to be picked by the low-mid teens. So it wasnt a far of a reach.

Given the circumstances right now, sure, I'd pick Drummond over Ross 10/10 times however, knowing you had 3 young bigs, Bargnani was a player the Raptors were still high on, of those bigs, two are invested in Amir/Val, one of which have already proven to be solid and another expected to be top tier of C with seasoning; it doesnt make sense to pick him at that time. It doesnt make sense unless youre trying to package a young player + assets for a stud. And there was no one actively trading around a sure thing/stud player ( Harden was not made available since he wasnt even in negotiations for a new contract at that point).

Let's say we did pick Drummond, where does it guarantee success that the growth he's having in Detroit would equate to the growth he would have here? Drummond is progressing nicely since as stubborn as Lawrence Frank is, he gets spot up minutes since after Monroe and Maxiell, there isnt much (CV has been a surprise this season but a complete afterthought going into it), and he's used to minutes to his fullest.
Going into the season, you're look at Drummond behind 4 big men. Where is the minutes allocated to Drummond in that case? Garbage minutes? It's comparable to the Miinny situation where they were picking PGs although their PG line was full or even the Philly situation with Vucevic (somewhat comparable). There is no guarantee he would have sprouted the same way as he is in Detroit. Granted he is still a special talent but the situation he is in is all too perfect for him.

This is all hindsight and absolutely ridiculous. It's perfectly reasonable to be a fan of Drummond. It's also perfectly reasonable to hate BC (I hate him too). It is not perfectly reasonable to go look "Why the hell didnt we pick Drummond look at him flourish and killing everyone, and coming to his own form OMG" and making OT threads about how much of a mistake and how pitiful this franchise is for passing up on him. If you want to follow that trend, might as welll make continuous threads about why we passed on Rondo, Ginobili, Parker, Millsap, Granger, Iggy etc. You can look at a player going into a draft and speculate "oh that kid's got talent, he's going to be something special in the league" however that doesnt equate to the player guaranteed 100% to being someone special and panning out exactly as his potential dictates (ie see Gerald Green for example)

Seriously, why cant Raptor fans (and by quoting you I'm not directly pointing at you) just cheer for the damn players on the team like fans are supposed to instead of making continual complaints about what we could of had, or what we dont have better.


I disagree with most of this. For one, the Ross pick definitely came out of left field. ESPN had him early to mid teens (they had Araujo 21st for comparison), but Hollinger had him 29th and a number of other outlets had him lower. I mean, just look at media reactions to the pick. Most were surprised; most thought it was a reach. Again, it's about gradations.

The vast majority of mocks had Drummond no worse than the top-8. My feeling (based on an aggregate of scouting reports and mocks) before the draft went down was that there were EIGHT elite prospects (with gradations between them owing to mental makeup questions and, of course, the Davis factor); thus, once the top seven picks were made, I assumed (or prayed, really) that we would take the final one left, i.e. Drummond. When we not only passed on Drummond, but also other players that were generally ranked higher (Lamb, for instance), I was shocked and horrified. I almost broke my TV, it was a really depressing night.

The media and the rest of us had similar reactions too. In other words, it was pretty clear at the time it was made that the Ross pick was an indefensible one. That it's turned out about as poorly as it could have only intensifies the overall horribleness of it.

And as to all of your reasoning about where Drummond would have gotten his minutes ... I don't buy any of it. We were supposedly a rebuilding team -- you take the best asset and worry about development later. There is nothing else to be said about it. If Drummond had shown the kind of ability he is showing now, then he would have earned his minutes. In others words, it would have been one hell of a "problem" to have.
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Post#305 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:11 am by Aventador

DHK wrote:
Phenomenologist wrote:
Hero wrote:Not only does Drummond have amazing potential and has had some monster game this year against quality opponents, he is also very consistent in his play. Every time I look at his performances I can't help but be wowed. At 8th pick we didn't go for the obvious choice and instead reached. Another horrible move for a horrible franchise.


Taking Ross over Drummond was basically Araujo all over again. Except it's even worse this time because I would argue that perennial all-star vs borderline starter is worse than solid starter versus non-NBA player.

Oh, and that quote by BC is obvious spin; there is no way even BC is that dumb. I hate the guy, but if he knew the results, he would have trammed Drummond in a heartbeat, fit/developing two bigs/etc. be damned.

And where is that moron kurtz? Yah, he's already got a man's body, so despite the fact that he's only 19, he won't be improving his body at all going forward. Sigh, why can't people understand gradations?

No..Araujo is a special case..
You're blowing it out of porportion.
Nobody expected Araujo to be picked that high, he was projected in the late 20's or even in the 2nd round in the mock drafts. The pick came out of nowhere. He was stiff, unproven, had no skills outside of a big frame a soft jumper. Ross was actually projected to be picked by the low-mid teens. So it wasnt a far of a reach.

Given the circumstances right now, sure, I'd pick Drummond over Ross 10/10 times however, knowing you had 3 young bigs, Bargnani was a player the Raptors were still high on, of those bigs, two are invested in Amir/Val, one of which have already proven to be solid and another expected to be top tier of C with seasoning; it doesnt make sense to pick him at that time. It doesnt make sense unless youre trying to package a young player + assets for a stud. And there was no one actively trading around a sure thing/stud player ( Harden was not made available since he wasnt even in negotiations for a new contract at that point).

Let's say we did pick Drummond, where does it guarantee success that the growth he's having in Detroit would equate to the growth he would have here? Drummond is progressing nicely since as stubborn as Lawrence Frank is, he gets spot up minutes since after Monroe and Maxiell, there isnt much (CV has been a surprise this season but a complete afterthought going into it), and he's used to minutes to his fullest.
Going into the season, you're look at Drummond behind 4 big men. Where is the minutes allocated to Drummond in that case? Garbage minutes? It's comparable to the Miinny situation where they were picking PGs although their PG line was full or even the Philly situation with Vucevic (somewhat comparable). There is no guarantee he would have sprouted the same way as he is in Detroit. Granted he is still a special talent but the situation he is in is all too perfect for him.

This is all hindsight and absolutely ridiculous. It's perfectly reasonable to be a fan of Drummond. It's also perfectly reasonable to hate BC (I hate him too). It is not perfectly reasonable to go look "Why the hell didnt we pick Drummond look at him flourish and killing everyone, and coming to his own form OMG" and making OT threads about how much of a mistake and how pitiful this franchise is for passing up on him. If you want to follow that trend, might as welll make continuous threads about why we passed on Rondo, Ginobili, Parker, Millsap, Granger, Iggy etc. You can look at a player going into a draft and speculate "oh that kid's got talent, he's going to be something special in the league" however that doesnt equate to the player guaranteed 100% to being someone special and panning out exactly as his potential dictates (ie see Gerald Green for example)

Seriously, why cant Raptor fans (and by quoting you I'm not directly pointing at you) just cheer for the damn players on the team like fans are supposed to instead of making continual complaints about what we could of had, or what we dont have better.


the difference is that not as many people really forsaw the greatness of Rondo, Manu or Parker, etc.

The Granger and Iggy picks had just as much controversy given who we drafted (Graham and Araujo).

Again, it's simple; Players like Ross are a dime a dozen, whereas Drummond's unique make up comes along much more rare. At our draft spot, that's the type of player to gamble on. We didn't because we fail.
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Post#306 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:53 am by hillbilly hare

Let's be careful about who gets called a real fan and who doesn't. Criticizing Colangelo for not drafting Drummond is exactly what a real fan should do. The majority of us were stunned when Colangelo didn't pick Drummond when he fell to 8 and we have been saying so since the day after the draft. Long before Drummond started playing well and contributing right away. That was all based on his potential, which no one thought he'd start showing so soon. I thought he'd be at least a year or two away from getting on the floor much and producing.

As to being fans or not, and cheering for who we have or not, it's obvious that if you come on here and debate things that you are a passionate fan. Otherwise you wouldn't be wasting your time here. As to "cheering for the guys we have", well of course we have to do that because we don't have much choice, do we? But it's precisely because we are Raptors fans, NOT Colangelo fans, that we criticize his moves. He's the one who put this roster together. Not us. We have to put up with the moves he makes to OUR team. We've been Raptors fans for 15 years but Colangelo's been here for only 7. And we'll be Raptors fans long after he's gone and has finished wrecking this franchise. It is not only our right, but our duty to criticize his moves. And we can only hope that the next guy won't make the same mistakes.

The fact that Colangelo is still coming out with these pearls of wisdom takes us inside his head and only goes to show even more clearly what a failure he has been. He should've just said that Drummond refused to work out for us and he didn't want to draft a guy blind. But no, he says that Drummond "wasn't the right fit for our team", which opens up all kinds of sarcastic comments, as sad as that might be. Not being "the right fit" for our team means being "a good player"? is probably the first reaction.

As to Drummond developing well with Detroit but he wouldn't do the same here, I have to ask why? Casey had some talented big men on Dallas when they won the title, so he probably knows what good big man play looks like. This argument is just another head in the sand idea. And if it were true, that is absolutely unacceptable. There is no reason for us NOT to have good player development. If we don't, that's another huge failure by Colangelo. If your current guys can't develop players, you fire them and hire some guys who do it right. As we've said a million times, TO is not a big FA destination, so we have to focus more on the draft and try to find gems throughout the first and in the second round, then develop them over time, hope they fall in love with the city and the organization, and re-sign them when it's time. To just throw your hands up and say "we have never been any good at player development" is ridiculous.

In order, Colangelo's failure with Drummond were:

1) he didn't interview the hell out of him and his coaches, and didn't have him in for a thorough pre-draft workout; he should've done whatever it took to get him in here, including a promise at 8.
2) he didn't follow his own oft-stated draft strategy, which he always touted proudly when trying to sound like a good GM: you pick for talent and upside, regardless of position and need, as it's all about asset accumulation and setting things up for future trades where needed.
3) he let the draft be conditioned by his obsessive idea of signing Steve Nash, and he drafted for need and perceived NBA readiness.

Colangelo fans have always touted him as a great drafter, but I've always seen him as "solid" here in TO. But this draft knocks him down a notch or two as a good drafter. So now he has nothing going for him as our GM and he has to be fired ASAP for the good of the team. Please. Tomorrow.
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Post#307 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:42 am by DHK

Phenomenologist wrote:I disagree with most of this. For one, the Ross pick definitely came out of left field. ESPN had him early to mid teens (they had Araujo 21st for comparison), but Hollinger had him 29th and a number of other outlets had him lower. I mean, just look at media reactions to the pick. Most were surprised; most thought it was a reach. Again, it's about gradations.

The vast majority of mocks had Drummond no worse than the top-8. My feeling (based on an aggregate of scouting reports and mocks) before the draft went down was that there were EIGHT elite prospects (with gradations between them owing to mental makeup questions and, of course, the Davis factor); thus, once the top seven picks were made, I assumed (or prayed, really) that we would take the final one left, i.e. Drummond. When we not only passed on Drummond, but also other players that were generally ranked higher (Lamb, for instance), I was shocked and horrified. I almost broke my TV, it was a really depressing night.

The media and the rest of us had similar reactions too. In other words, it was pretty clear at the time it was made that the Ross pick was an indefensible one. That it's turned out about as poorly as it could have only intensifies the overall horribleness of it.

And as to all of your reasoning about where Drummond would have gotten his minutes ... I don't buy any of it. We were supposedly a rebuilding team -- you take the best asset and worry about development later. There is nothing else to be said about it. If Drummond had shown the kind of ability he is showing now, then he would have earned his minutes. In others words, it would have been one hell of a "problem" to have.

he wouldnt have. not as nearly as he's gettign in detroit and he's not getting much..15 minutes per night. Drummond was automatically the 3rd best big man coming into training camp for the Pistons, without a single game on his resume, the same can't be said for the Raptors. He'd be the 5th best big man coming into camp (Val is more polished than raw Drummond). That isnt to say he wouldnt have earned his minutes, most likely if he's playing with the demeanor and can-do attitude as he's display right now, he would have received the minutes. However it's really a debatable issue of just assembling the assmebling a raw talent together regardless of position vs drafting a position of need. Granted you can make the argument: this is a rebuilding team; it should always be taking the best talent available however when looking at the raptors at that given time having already 3 young big man + bargnani on your team, it doesn't make sense to add a 5th unless youre just downright hoarding. Hoarding doesnt necessarily end well either. Minnesota and their continual drafting of PGs is a good example of this.

The main point I'm trying to make is two things
1) This is hindsight. it's been done with, we really shouldnt be continually talking about Drummond, when's he's signed to another team as he's not part of ours and if people wishes to do so; they should do it on the Pistons board

2) The Drummond pick is a gamble just like any other pick. Ross, like Drummond, is an asset and a rookie. Drummond's ceiling may be higher but he presents the same gamble as any other player of panning out as Ross can potentially be just as good as Drummond in the long run (no one can really determine that until both of their careers are over and done with). Unlike Araujo, who proved he's absolutely useless from the start, Ross has shown a variety of tools and athleticism that almost justifies being picked at 8. At the very moment, right now it looks like Drummond seems to have the better outlook. Should we be crying about it? No. Did we gamble on the wrong player? That's not to be determined yet. Would Drummond look nice in a Raptor uniform? Absolutely but he's not. He's a piston. lets talk about our players on this board.

I don't really get it. Ross hasnt proved he's a bust. he's shown flashes of brilliance out there. Are we really infactuated and obsessed with Drummond to the point where we're focused more on his growth than our own? Let's take into accoutn what you've stated about the whole "top 8 talent" coming into the draft. Again as I stated in #2, it doesnt mean they will pan out. Tyrus Thomas. bismack Biyombo. Jerryd Bayless, Randy Foye, all top talents coming into the draft who hasnt panned out the way they were supposed to be. Jerryed Bayless in particular is a similar case to Drummond. He was the top PG prospect coming into the draft yet team after team passed up on him although he was the top PG talent coming into the draft. Was the potential there in Bayless? Absolutely! The man could ball and we saw that in his time here in Toronto. However he hasnt lived it up and the gamble that Portland took on him failed, because that's how the draft works.

There are plenty of justifications on why we should have picked Drummond but just as many justification on why we shouldnt have. They're both equally valid and raises good points where you can't redeem one side being more justified/logical than the other. Although we may still have a short-sighted piss poor GM, choosing one side in this case does not make a person any more or less moronic unless there's concrete evidence to show that there was truly a illogical/irrational reason to choose player X over Y.

And also basically hillbilly hare stated in his post; people in this board have to start acting like actual fans instead of people running around with pitchforks looking for an issue to riot on.

As for what hare stated about whether Drummond would do well in Toronto or not. It's purely speculation, and that's not something you can determine. there's equal chance of him doing well here as well as him failing horribly.

Apologies if I'm not making sense here and there, its 4am. and wanted to make this post before going to sleep.
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Post#308 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:49 am by DHK

The Flyest wrote:the difference is that not as many people really forsaw the greatness of Rondo, Manu or Parker, etc.

The Granger and Iggy picks had just as much controversy given who we drafted (Graham and Araujo).

Again, it's simple; Players like Ross are a dime a dozen, whereas Drummond's unique make up comes along much more rare. At our draft spot, that's the type of player to gamble on. We didn't because we fail.

So the argument you're stating is..
"Its okay to pass up on Rondo/ Parker. manu, since we didnt know about their talents and overlooked them but we knew about Drummond's talents and so its not okay to pass up on him"..either its getting too late for me or this doesnt make sense at all.

Players like Ross are dime a dozen? A projected lockdown defender, with good 3pt shooting and a great vertical/first step is dime a dozen? I'll bite, who are these dozens of players that fit this calibre that can be had easily?

The concept of "Who we gamble on" is a touchy subjective issue where each player has their own pros and cons. theres no right answer on where the betting goes, because either way, its a gamble.
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Post#309 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:25 am by Raps in 4

Phenomenologist wrote:it would have been one hell of a "problem" to have.


This phrase can be used to respond to every single BC-apologist's argument in this thread.
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Post#310 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:33 am by Phenomenologist

DHK, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I can't respond at great length, because I have a lot of work yet to do "tonight." That said, I think accepting/understanding one particular idea that I'm trying to get across can clarify for you what my basic point is. Any decision made by a GM (or anyone for that matter) can, in general, be judged on the basis of two criteria: how defensible it was at the time it was made and how it turns out. And the two go hand in hand to some extent.

Of course there is a risk/reward calculation to be made for any pick, but by your coarse-grained logic, I could argue that taking Perry Jones III was defensible at the time or, for that matter, Quincy Acy, any other second round pick, or any undrafted player. The idea is that the risk/reward calculation had dictated, in this particular case, that there was AD and then seven players whose expected value as players was about the same (given, of course, that we don't have access to perfect information, let alone future results). Again, these two criteria go hand in hand, so if BCs history of decision making as our GM (or, in particular, his history of drafting) was such that he had consistently produced results despite flouting conventional wisdom, then he would have some leeway to make these kinds of seeming stabs in the dark; there would be a precedent of success behind them. But he doesn't. And so, whether or not you look at the pick in isolation from who was making it, it's indefensible either way.

If this helps: had GSW stunned everyone and taken Ross or Lamb, and we had followed by taking Barnes, I would never mention Drummond's non-selection as an instance of BC's failure ... because it wouldn't have been. It would have been an instance of his non-success, because Barnes would have been a defensible pick at the time -- it's only the result that would have been poor in that case. And having your GMs contribution be neutral relative to the contributions of the rest of the league's GMs I can live with; that's par for the course (only a few outlier GMs truly, relatively speaking, help or hurt their franchises).

Oh, and I think you may have misconstrued hare's post based on the first thing that you concluded about it.
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Post#311 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:48 am by TheAlchemist

Nobody could of made me happier on draft day, when I was sitting there happy as heck that Drummond fell in our laps.

I hate the fact that Bryan knew how good he was, but elected to take Ross. God, how I hate this man.

Anyways, one thing that did come to my mind, is what my friend said to me.

"Developing two rookie big men is the hardest thing an organization can do. The potential of both will be mitigated, as we try to develop them together".

However, I digress. I think we could develop both Val and Drummond. Heck, we could of used one in the Harden trade, had we seen Drummond beasting.

I feel like the organization would have to get the trade Bargnani memo though.
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Post#312 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:41 am by Phenomenologist

TheAlchemist wrote:Nobody could of made me happier on draft day, when I was sitting there happy as heck that Drummond fell in our laps.

I hate the fact that Bryan knew how good he was, but elected to take Ross. God, how I hate this man.

Anyways, one thing that did come to my mind, is what my friend said to me.

"Developing two rookie big men is the hardest thing an organization can do. The potential of both will be mitigated, as we try to develop them together".

However, I digress. I think we could develop both Val and Drummond. Heck, we could of used one in the Harden trade, had we seen Drummond beasting.

I feel like the organization would have to get the trade Bargnani memo though.


Sadly, even accepting your friend's essentially baseless claim, a completely undeveloped Drummond is already a borderline all-star. Sigh
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Post#313 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:44 am by tecumseh18

TheAlchemist wrote:Anyways, one thing that did come to my mind, is what my friend said to me.

"Developing two rookie big men is the hardest thing an organization can do. The potential of both will be mitigated, as we try to develop them together".


Hmm, JV was expected be a foul machine and only get around 24 mpg, and in fact he has received around 24 mpg. Drummond is developing very nicely at 20 mpg. How could we possibility develop them together? How indeed? Hmm, what a conundrum.

Anyway, the obvious wildcard here is Bargnani and the 13 games he pretended to be Hakeem (against relatively crappy competition). That's clearly what skewed the organizational perspective on this. Those 13 games may have consigned this franchise to another half-decade (at least) of oblivion.* Thanks, Bargs. Thanks for everything.**

The moral, as always ... draft BPA. Always BPAing.


* Unless we get lucky in 2014
** And by "everything", of course I mean "nothing".
Indeed wrote:The Bargnani trade was horrible, it was Camby and Novak, where we can't even use them.

... I think Ujiri is hindered by the previous mess, but neither he did anything good at the moment.
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Post#314 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:50 am by Komodo

DHK, your eyes are fooling you if you think "Val is more polished than a raw Drummond." That couldn't be further from the truth.
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Post#315 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:54 am by disoblige

Drummond fell to our pick. We were shouting DRUMMOND! DRUMMOND! DRUMMOND! DRUMMOND!

then

Raptor picks Ross


then

silence. Who the **** is Ross?
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Post#316 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:58 am by DreamTeam09

How isn't this locked yet??
Image

In Raptor Ball I Trust
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Post#317 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:29 pm by JN

DreamTeam09 wrote:How isn't this locked yet??


Obviously people feel like discussing the subject that post here, so why should it be locked.
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Post#318 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:38 pm by JN

Drummond is as much a board issue than a BC issue.

If certain "respected" posters had not went out of their way to constantly call fans of Drummond morons and idiots on and immediately following draft night, it probably would have died.
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Post#319 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:47 pm by Phenomenologist

Who's Terrance Ross anyway?
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Post#320 Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greate
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:00 pm by Tacoma

DreamTeam09 wrote:How isn't this locked yet??


Because Drummond is the elephant in the room whenever we talk about Ross.

Phenomenologist wrote:Who's Terrance Ross anyway?


A 22-year old NBA ready player according to the wise President of Basketball Operations of the Raptors.
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