David Aldridge talks Bargnani

thunderforce · Post #31 » by **thunderforce** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:27 pm

Maybe playing with Telfair will be good for Bargs because Lucas won't get the ball to Rudy never mind Bargs . I hope they give Bargs the ball more and tell him to attack because he can play at a high level .

MagnusPinus · Post #32 » by **MagnusPinus** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:28 pm

3thomas wrote:
Personally I do not think Colangelo was even offered a bag of chips for Bargnani, The only deals rumored were Boozer and Stoudemire. Both entail bringing back a much older (Boozer) more expensive injury prone player, putting the team in luxury tax teritory with no play off guarantee.

If BC was offered anything half decent he would have pulled the trigger and circumvented this ugly outcome we are discussing today. Reality is his time here is up, and there are a few options on the table, Bargnani has to cooperate in order for both parties have a positive outcome.

I think he could have had some expiring contracts for him.. But Colangelo wants to improve the team by trading Bargnani.. Well, good luck then :lol:

basketball royalty · Post #33 » by **basketball royalty** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:29 pm

dballislife wrote:the coaching staff has really gotta do a better job with bargs, 2 seasons ago he was our 1st option at 21ppg on 45%FG...thats solid, even before that he was a 15 and 17 on 46% and 47% player...for all his flaws, he has offensive skills that can be easily incorporated into any offense...too bad our coaching staff is offensively challenged with probably the worst playbook in all of nba

True story. DC is ridiculous in allowing Lucas and AA shoot like their last names were Bryant and freeze out Bargnani completely. If you asked me I'd say those two made a pact with one another to only pass to each other when on the court together.

If BC doesn't want that 10 MIL a year to go to waste he needs to get these guys off the team and save Casey from his stupid self. Telfair was brought in for a reason, lets hope Casey gets the message.

MagnusPinus · Post #34 » by **MagnusPinus** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:33 pm

basketball royalty wrote:
True story. DC is ridiculous in allowing Lucas and AA shoot like their last names were Bryant and freeze out Bargnani completely. If you asked me I'd say those two made a pact with one another to only pass to each other when on the court together.

If BC doesn't want that 10 MIL a year to go to waste he needs to get these guys off the team and save Casey from his stupid self. Telfair was brought in for a reason, lets hope Casey gets the message.

Those guys are fighting for their Nba life.. they r not even true Nba players.. they try to show something to everybody, but they r harming the team more than everything.

But I don't think we can blame only Casey. i think the teammates just don't see Bargnani as part of the group.. They should first accept him and try to involve him. Now it looks like the cold war.. and with the personality he has (not great) Bargnani is just being a lazy careless guy right now

Neutral 123 · Post #35 » by **Neutral 123** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:34 pm

MagnusPinus wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:Huh? He played beside a likely future hall of fame player in Bosh. He's just garbage. He's is, was, and always will be. Him having a lucky game or two here or there doesn't make him good. Him deciding to play with an acceptable level of effort once in a blue moon doesn't make him good. The guy is garbage, and even a broken clock is right twice a day. In Bargs case he's right about twice a year.

First.. when he was with Bosh he was very limited.. was forced to defend against centers, and had to take the crumbles offensively, simply because they were the same player.. same position, same spaces occupied on the floor..

Then he had 2 years averagin 20 points a game, with a terrible terrible team. In this last year and a half he has been affected by injuries, and in general he has lost will to play here..

I think his interview when he said "this is the worst team..." was his ruin.. now He is done.. fans hate him.. Teammates hate him.. and they r not willing to involve him in the game. Even the GM is not talking positive about him. He is in a hostile environment, and yes, it's fault is that he is just letting down. He is not reacting. He is waiting for this to finish. That' a negative. But ignoring the player he was, and might well be again, it's utterly stupid

LOL, that scrub averaged 20 a game like Mike James averaged 20 a game. He's only a 20 a point guy when he's the only scorer on the team. He doesn't make anyone else better, is a huge liability defensively. The worst part is, his lack of defense and rebounding are the only two consistent aspects of his game. Maybe he'd do better in Italy? He's not a star in the NBA. At his best he was arguably 6th man material. Now? He's a 10th-12th man. Il Vago needs to go.

BryceMaxJames · Post #36 » by **BryceMaxJames** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:35 pm

MagnusPinus wrote:I think ppl are losing a bit of perspective on Bargnani.. He is not just a specialist(a shooter). He showed in the years he can be a scorer as well.. He can dribble against slower guys, he can post up smaller guys. He is very talented.. making him a shooter it's not fair.. But of course.. now he looks totally out of place and disengaged. He probably doesn't care anymore.

so the sports analyst is wrong, and u get it? Okay buddy..... :lol:

He is what he is, how much longer are we to wait for him to turn into the player BC wanted him to be? Its been 7 years and he still doesn't have a clue. If this were your job and you couldn't grasp the task or duties correctly do you think they would keep your around?

Lord Eder · Post #37 » by **Lord Eder** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:36 pm

whysoserious wrote:
stro wrote:Andrea will be useful to some other team, as more than a 'specialist'. I have no doubt in my mind that this guy can play as a #1 offensive option off the bench while providing decent defense and energy. He just needs to be in the right situation where that role is asked from him. The way he played in Indiana is exactly where he needs to be at this point. He was engaged, getting down in a defensive stance, hitting big shots when needed and talkin some smack. But all of a sudden for whatever reason since then, he's had no role on this team. This is a guy who should clearly be our best player off the bench, he's got the talent and will have the motor when motivated. But it's not happening, he can't have a defined role when he's playing on the floor with Alan Anderson and John Lucas, because those guys don't know THEIR role. In what world guys like Alan Anderon and John Lucas are offensive options before Andrea Bargnani is beyond me. I've said it all season long Dwane needs to sit these guys down and tell them to check their role with this team because that bench unit is all messed up. But the pieces are there. I can only hope that Telfair can bring some stability and proper distribution to that lineup. Otherwise we'll just lose Andrea for scraps in the offseason and watch him thrive else where in a properly defined role.

The problem with Andrea is you get an Indiana-type game every now and again, followed by exactly what he's doing right now. It's not like we decided to pull him back since that game. The coach now plays him more when he hustles and makes shots and pulls him when he doesn't. You can point out lack of role and all that other stuff, but the issues he's having are on him. Not everyone else.

Sure his lack of production is at an all-time low, his confidence is low and we all know he's better than this. But it's the flaws in him as a basketball player that bring this out all the time. He's never really been able to even do what he did in Indiana for long stretches. If he goes out and hustles a bit and looks engaged, i'm sure Casey will leave him out there more and he'll get more shots.

At this point, you need to earn them.

You've got a point. Andrea's consistency has always been an issue with him but as a bench player I wouldn't expect a perfect game from him every night. If he could bring the Indiana game every night then I'd argue that he could be a starter for some teams in the league. He is capable of them though, and far more often then we've seen this season especially in this stretch. Bottom line, he's not being utilized properly on the 2nd unit. We all know he's fairly useless if he's not getting his shots on offense, that's just his game. Run the offense through him with the 2nd unit and let him play his game. When his shots falling you get good energized Andrea, with him playing like that scoring the ball, off the bench, we'll probably win the game. If not then it'll be a bit of a scrap but I think the starting unit is balanced enough with scorers, defenders and rebounders to be able to pull out a win as well. But playing him like this, will force it to be a scrap every time.

I'm not trying to make excuses for him, you're 100% right that he should earn his shots and should play at that level regardless, but the reality is that that just isn't who he is. 7 years in we should know this buy now. That's what makes him a bench player. But he can be a good one if we utilize him properly. Instead we're driving his value into the ground this way. There's a lot of different people to blame for this whole thing and it's ugly and will probably end ugly unfortunately for us... The frustrating part is that it just seems like such a simple solution.

BLKMASS · Post #38 » by **BLKMASS** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:39 pm

Neutral 123 wrote:Huh? He played beside a likely future hall of fame player in Bosh.

hahahaha

hof no longer holds any meaning if they put that scrub in there

BryceMaxJames · Post #39 » by **BryceMaxJames** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:39 pm

MagnusPinus wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:He might be able to do these things in the Italian league, but certainly not in the NBA.

bull.. U guys have short memory.
This year he has been a disgrace but u can't forget all those games when Bargnani carried the team.. And now it's easy to go against him.. but u have to realize the last years the teams he had to play in.. We were such a disgrace talent wise... He had to play with Nbdl teammates for years..

Now after an injury he comes back and suddenly he is the cause of everything that happened to the raptors these years... Go check the rosters we had please.. go check.. I can't wait till he gets traded and does very well on a good team.. He is just over here.. too many bad years, too many things have changed. It's time to start fresh for the team, and for him. But not giving him respect for sticking to team, and playing in such a bad organization is absolutely shameful

Rudy Gay has done for for this team than Bargnani has done in 7 years.

T-D0G · Post #40 » by **T-D0G** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:40 pm

Package him with a couple 1st rounders and all of a sudden he looks like a pretty good piece.

basketball royalty · Post #41 » by **basketball royalty** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:41 pm

MagnusPinus wrote:
basketball royalty wrote:
True story. DC is ridiculous in allowing Lucas and AA shoot like their last names were Bryant and freeze out Bargnani completely. If you asked me I'd say those two made a pact with one another to only pass to each other when on the court together.

If BC doesn't want that 10 MIL a year to go to waste he needs to get these guys off the team and save Casey from his stupid self. Telfair was brought in for a reason, lets hope Casey gets the message.

Those guys are fighting for their Nba life.. they r not even true Nba players.. they try to show something to everybody, but they r harming the team more than everything.

But I don't think we can blame only Casey. i think the teammates just don't see Bargnani as part of the group.. They should first accept him and try to involve him. Now it looks like the cold war.. and with the personality he has (not great) Bargnani is just being a lazy careless guy right now

Sure it is on Casey. He obviously likes what these guys do on the floor or has no control over a couple guys who like you say are barely NBA players. You think BC doesn't think that guys like Andrea and Fields should be playing a biger role on the team than these two? We can only hope that Telfair will be used and having a real PG on the second unit to make the decisions we will see more out of AB and LF.

Neutral 123 · Post #42 » by **Neutral 123** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:41 pm

BLKMASS wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:Huh? He played beside a likely future hall of fame player in Bosh.

hahahaha

hof no longer holds any meaning if they put that scrub in there

Meh, I'm not interested in defending Bosh. Fact is, Barfs has always been bad regardless. It's also ridiculous for his fanbois to try and argue that he'd be better on a better team.

MagnusPinus · Post #43 » by **MagnusPinus** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:41 pm

BryceMaxJames wrote:
so the sports analyst is wrong, and u get it? Okay buddy.....

He is what he is, how much longer are we to wait for him to turn into the player BC wanted him to be? Its been 7 years and he still doesn't have a clue. If this were your job and you couldn't grasp the task or duties correctly do you think they would keep your around?

The sports analyst more than often are superficial and talk without watching all the games.. especially the games of a terrible Toronto Raptors team like we were these years.. I saw basically all the games Bargnani played these years, as many Toronto Raptors fans.. we can be more competent than those guys regarding the Toronto Raptors.

It's too easy to say now he is just a shooter, he is very bad.. and all.. Bargnani is not just a shooter.. at his best he was playing a very complete game offensively, being a nightmare for the defense.. And I say it again.. he was playing in a terrible terrible team.. now u can see Bargnani now and say he is useless he can only take some shots.. cos now, he does not even care and he just jogs on the floor.. but how the hell ppl can say bargnani has always been like now..

Tacoma · Post #44 » by **Tacoma** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:45 pm

MagnusPinus wrote:He has been a consistent scorer for the team thru the years, playing alongside terrible teammates.. some Nbdl players.. some talented but very raw youngsters like Demar..
This year he just bailed out.. He had too much of it.. It's not easy to lose lose and lose, cos your Gm doesn't put a decent team on and you r getting all the blame... Then a good player arrives and he is basically out.. hated by fans, hated by the teammates.

He doesn't care anymore at all, and the team is not interested in involving him in the game.. U can criticize for him not putting any effort now.. But it's stupid just saying he is ****, and he can't play, cos it's unfair and not true

This is deja vu all over again with the excuses for his poor play. Bargs has NOT BEEN a consistent scorer, he's been hot and cold for his whole career. He had a 13-game hot streak last year, then went cold that continues to today. Every damn year during one of his hot shooting streaks, Bargs apologists would start a thread here that he's had finally turned it around or asking haters to eat crow, or whatever. But each and every time, that hot streak ends.

I don't dispute your assertion that BC has put out a crap team. But I don't use this as an excuse for Bargs poor play. On the contrary, if Bargs has any motivation and desire to put forth more effort and lead this team, maybe this team wouldn't have been so bad. A good example is Gay. This team was a borderline bottom 5 team before Gay arrived and now it looks to be a borderline playoff team.

Bargs is NOT the victim here; on the contrary, his teammates are the victims when everyone is giving 100% and Bargs is floating around in space as if it's his devine right to get the ball no matter how lazy he plays and then checks out like a child when things don't go his way.

Bargs is no longer BC's favorite child and there is no longer the mandate for the coach to "ride him come hell or high water" like Casey said last November. Now he has to earn his playing time like everyone else.. as it should've been in the first place a long long time ago.

whysoserious · Post #45 » by **whysoserious** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:46 pm

MagnusPinus wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:He might be able to do these things in the Italian league, but certainly not in the NBA.

bull.. U guys have short memory.
This year he has been a disgrace but u can't forget all those games when Bargnani carried the team.. And now it's easy to go against him.. but u have to realize the last years the teams he had to play in.. We were such a disgrace talent wise... He had to play with Nbdl teammates for years..

Now after an injury he comes back and suddenly he is the cause of everything that happened to the raptors these years... Go check the rosters we had please.. go check.. I can't wait till he gets traded and does very well on a good team.. He is just over here.. too many bad years, too many things have changed. It's time to start fresh for the team, and for him. But not giving him respect for sticking to team, and playing in such a bad organization is absolutely shameful

One could say the same thing about Bosh and some of the teams he had but he still played his ass off every time he stepped on the court. You point to all these games Bargs carried us in, can you list them all? For all that he played with passion and effort for that mini stretch last year, there's more evidence of the opposite than there is of his exceptional play.

He's had more bad than good, when do people realize that that is more Bargs than the exceptional? I mean we've tried every role for this guy and he still can't get it together and now you're hanging you're hat on him going somewhere else and suddenly breaking out?

We all know he has the tools to be a good NBA player (never a great one) but his mental makeup keeps him from even being a good role player.

Post #46 » by **Undefeated** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:47 pm

A "specialist" shooter that can't shoot... Yikes

BryceMaxJames · Post #47 » by **BryceMaxJames** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:07 pm

MagnusPinus wrote:
BryceMaxJames wrote:
so the sports analyst is wrong, and u get it? Okay buddy.....

He is what he is, how much longer are we to wait for him to turn into the player BC wanted him to be? Its been 7 years and he still doesn't have a clue. If this were your job and you couldn't grasp the task or duties correctly do you think they would keep your around?

The sports analyst more than often are superficial and talk without watching all the games.. especially the games of a terrible Toronto Raptors team like we were these years.. I saw basically all the games Bargnani played these years, as many Toronto Raptors fans.. we can be more competent than those guys regarding the Toronto Raptors.

It's too easy to say now he is just a shooter, he is very bad.. and all.. Bargnani is not just a shooter.. at his best he was playing a very complete game offensively, being a nightmare for the defense.. And I say it again.. he was playing in a terrible terrible team.. now u can see Bargnani now and say he is useless he can only take some shots.. cos now, he does not even care and he just jogs on the floor.. but how the hell ppl can say bargnani has always been like now..

I was gonna give u a good rebuttal but then seen where your location is from (Italy). So I'll just say enjoy the rest of the season. :lol:

Haisan · Post #48 » by **Haisan** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:20 pm

Take a look at AB's numbers -- he's been declining for five years now.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... nan01.html

TS% down. eFG% down. 3pt% down. Rebounding rate down. The only thing that has improved over the past five yeas has been AB's ability to draw fouls, and even that has plummeted this year.

When he tries, he can be a very good one-on-one defender, but as soon as the other team starts moving the ball around he's totally useless. Unless the ball is right in front of him, he has no idea what to do. Blah.

Aldridge was exactly right. And the sooner we get a GM in who has a clue, the better off we'll all be.

MagnusPinus · Post #49 » by **MagnusPinus** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:25 pm

BryceMaxJames wrote:
I was gonna give u a good rebuttal but then seen where your location is from (Italy). So I'll just say enjoy the rest of the season.

well.. so u really think Nba analyst are reliable and competent.. maybe is just that they are adapting to the audience, that in general is pretty ignorant regarding the game.. But they are always oversimplifying things, and more than often talking without being completely informed

whysoserious · Post #50 » by **whysoserious** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:30 pm

MagnusPinus wrote:
BryceMaxJames wrote:
I was gonna give u a good rebuttal but then seen where your location is from (Italy). So I'll just say enjoy the rest of the season.

well.. so u really think Nba analyst are reliable and competent.. maybe is just that they are adapting to the audience, that in general is pretty ignorant regarding the game.. But they are always oversimplifying things, and more than often talking without being completely informed

You're right, Bargs game is just so complicated, he does so much that no one can really see. Just put him on another team and watch he'll just absolutely go beast even though we have no evidence that that would ever happen.

As Tacoma pointed out, this guy is simply a hot and cold player. The reason he's like that is due to his own mental makeup and he doesn't put in the effort every game. No one here would deny this guy has the skills and tools to be a top player. The fact is though, he is unable to put it together. You may have a point of putting him in a different situation if we had never given him the opportunity. But the fact is in 7 years, he's been given every opportunity, put in every role and been coddled enough here and he still hasn't put it together.