Post Hakeem-Hyberbolic-Chamber Jonas Expectations Thread

[tsherkin]

Any post moves Jonas develops that replaces the slow pump fake is an improvement.

That's a face-up move.

There are plenty of face-up post players. Not every post-up is a back down, and of all players, Hakeem will stress this...

[Thespianoid]

And everyone was worried about Lowry getting fat

God.. he looks....

Terrible..

I'm surprised more people aren't concerned by it. He was only playing a bit lighter than that for most of last year.

All these lofty expectations of a big jump after working with Hakeem, and a general improvement due to experience, that's all fine. But hell he's not going to achieve **** if he's constantly overweight - don't say I didn't warn you. Don't get me wrong, Jonas is by far my favorite player on the team. But I can't bear to see a player with tremendous potential slowly throw it away while everyone turns the other cheek/avoids acknowleding a very serious issue going forward.

The organization needs to do something about this. Or if they've instructed him to continue adding weight....I have no hope for his career. He needs to drastically slim down, back to those 2011 levels of body fat.

[MixxSRC]

Any post moves Jonas develops that replaces the slow pump fake is an improvement.

even more pump fakes

[m83588333]

Any post moves Jonas develops that replaces the slow pump fake is an improvement.

even more pump fakes

Would laugh my ass off if the first lesson is Hakeem teaching the quadruple pump fake on OpenGym

[tsherkin]

.. Slimmer/quicker = better in today's NBA. Bulky bigs are a relic of the past.

This isn't true necessarily. The bulkier bigs of the past were either a) roleplayers b) misremembered as bulky or c) ridiculous physical specimens.

ITO star bigs, the only truly bulky monsters of note were really Shaq and Wilt. Hakeem, Duncan, Robinson, they typically played at 265 or under and even Zo was prett mobile despite his muscle, just like the Mailman. This is partly related to a generally poor understanding of post offense, and how players have built their games.

Bob Lanier would still be nasty today because of the range on his J. Bells, McAdoo, they'd be fine. Kareem was never bulky, nor was Walton. Players were generally LIGHTER in earlier eras. Unseld and Silas and Reed were stockier guys, but either outlier talents (Unseld) or more mobile than one might expect from a big. We talk about stretch bigs, but a lot of the stars of the 70s could stick a 17-footer and pass. Look at Parish, for example.

[Thespianoid]

.. Slimmer/quicker = better in today's NBA. Bulky bigs are a relic of the past.

This isn't true necessarily. The bulkier bigs of the past were either a) roleplayers b) misremembered as bulky or c) ridiculous physical specimens.

ITO star bigs, the only truly bulky monsters of note were really Shaq and Wilt. Hakeem, Duncan, Robinson, they typically played at 265 or under and even Zo was prett mobile despite his muscle, just like the Mailman. This is partly related to a generally poor understanding of post offense, and how players have built their games.

Bob Lanier would still be nasty today because of the range on his J. Bells, McAdoo, they'd be fine. Kareem was never bulky, nor was Walton. Players were generally LIGHTER in earlier eras. Unseld and Silas and Reed were stockier guys, but either outlier talents (Unseld) or more mobile than one might expect from a big. We talk about stretch bigs, but a lot of the stars of the 70s could stick a 17-footer and pass. Look at Parish, for example.

Fair enough. I guess I need to choose my words more carefully. For most players...Bulky = lower chance of success in the NBA?

Something like that. Because it seems that key factors like mobility and skill level are/were more important. If you have those combined with physical dominance, then you get generational superstars? (Shaq, Wilt, LeBron, Magic)

more mobile than one might expect from a big

sounds like what Jonas used to be like. Not elite-ly mobile, but very good for a 7 footer.

[BackOnDaBlock]

if he doesnt avg 10 rebounds and over a block i might hav 2 go fist 2 fist wit him u kno?

[Thespianoid]

if he doesnt avg 10 rebounds and over a block i might hav 2 go fist 2 fist wit him u kno?

he might average the 10 boards..over a block? Not gonna happen if he's carrying the extra weight. Can't move to spots quickly enough to contest. It was a key reason for many of his late rotations last year. He would react, but his body wouldn't propel quickly enough and he would arrive a bit too late and the offensive player was already past/he'd commit a foul.

Here he rotates well on the Bradley cut. His recognition is actually a bit late, but his mobility allows him to block the shot.

Again he's able to rotate and deny the shot attempt. This one is a better rotation timing, but he's able to gather and jump effectively to block the shot. I'm not sure that would be possible with the extra weight.

[Joker]

Jonas attending the Arvydas Sabonis School of Conditioning I see.

[tsherkin]

.. Slimmer/quicker = better in today's NBA. Bulky bigs are a relic of the past.

This isn't true necessarily. The bulkier bigs of the past were either a) roleplayers b) misremembered as bulky or c) ridiculous physical specimens.

ITO star bigs, the only truly bulky monsters of note were really Shaq and Wilt. Hakeem, Duncan, Robinson, they typically played at 265 or under and even Zo was prett mobile despite his muscle, just like the Mailman. This is partly related to a generally poor understanding of post offense, and how players have built their games.

Bob Lanier would still be nasty today because of the range on his J. Bells, McAdoo, they'd be fine. Kareem was never bulky, nor was Walton. Players were generally LIGHTER in earlier eras. Unseld and Silas and Reed were stockier guys, but either outlier talents (Unseld) or more mobile than one might expect from a big. We talk about stretch bigs, but a lot of the stars of the 70s could stick a 17-footer and pass. Look at Parish, for example.

Mobility is at a premium at all positions; it's better to be more athletic, of course, but Jonas will be fine as long as he has some basic commitment to fitness and conditioning.


My worries with him are all about the mental aspects of the game. Reading defenses, timing as a defender, positioning and timing on the glass, how he learns to get position more effectively... I'm curious to see if/where/how he improves, you know? He's young and while we're not holding a superstar here, he's got some tools, ao I'm intrigued by where he can develop. I'd be happier with defensive evolution than offensive, though.

[Truthrising]

Jonas is still fatter than he needs to be.
From about a month ago:







First picture could be misleading due to angle/clothing, but the other two are accurate. Too much fat deposit in the face, and too much midsection weight. It's pretty cut and dry - if you're in good shape, you don't have those physical features.

Compare to the following:





He's done the reverse of Kevin Love - put on more flab. I don't know about you guys, but for me this is unacceptable from both Jonas and the organization.

Wow, Jonas looks fat as ****, looks like his offseason regimen is chugging a few beers w Sabonis, well I believe that is what beer does to you. I also do know that Lithuanias favourite past time is drinking a lot of beers.

Seems like he doesn't really take offseason conditioning as serious compared to most NBA players, I don't know what it is but our trainers should maybe be fired.

[Joker]

His beard was initially for intimidation, now it's to cover up his double chin.

[Thespianoid]

Wow, Jonas looks fat as ****, looks like his offseason regimen is chugging a few beers w Sabonis, well I believe that is what beer does to you. I also do know that Lithuanias favourite past time is drinking a lot of beers.

Seems like he doesn't really take offseason conditioning as serious compared to most NBA players, I don't know what it is but our trainers should maybe be fired.

First picture is a little misleading, he's not that fat. But he's nowhere where he should be as professional athlete. He looks like a guy who sits around mostly and gets exercise here and there.

I think he needs a personal trainer with him almost all the time. Constant training, proper eating, etc. The organization needs to make sure a key asset doesn't go down the wrong path.

[Thespianoid]

His beard was initially for intimidation, now it's to cover up his double chin.

No, it was always to cover up his extra weight. Seriously. He only got it after the summer bulk he did.

[Truthrising]

Wow, Jonas looks fat as ****, looks like his offseason regimen is chugging a few beers w Sabonis, well I believe that is what beer does to you. I also do know that Lithuanias favourite past time is drinking a lot of beers.

Seems like he doesn't really take offseason conditioning as serious compared to most NBA players, I don't know what it is but our trainers should maybe be fired.

First picture is a little misleading, he's not that fat. But he's nowhere where he should be as professional athlete. He looks like a guy who sits around mostly and gets exercise here and there.

I think he needs a personal trainer with him almost all the time. Constant training, proper eating, etc. The organization needs to make sure a key asset doesn't go down the wrong path.

Yeah he does seem like a guy that doesn't really take offseason conditioning as serious and if you're the Raptors organization I think it's a failure on their part that they're not monitoring the situation as closely.

We all know that happened last year, when Valenciuanas was SOOOOO SLOOOW running to the other end of the court because he was pretty fat throughout the season..it was so bad that most posters had called him Turtle.

I'm afraid that he may be worse in terms of conditioning this year since they are saying that he "bulked" up. What a waste of potential, kinda partly blame the Raptors organization for their failure in terms of offseason conditioning regimen.

I'm looking at the Raptors staff directory and maybe the following people should be fired:

Jama Mahlalela - Assistant Coach/ Player Development
Alex McKechnie - Assistant Coach/Director of Sports Science
Scott McCullough - Head Athletic Trainer
Jon Lee - Strength and Conditioning Coach

[MixxSRC]

fire Alex McKechnie because JV can't put down a fork wow

[BangerBrotha]

Man, I am disappointed by that picture. Hopefully, he looks more like the figure in the picture with Amir Johnson that was posted more recently. I am wondering if the Raptors want to keep him at his current weight, so that he could be strong enough to defend in the post, but improve running efficiency in his off season training with the sprint coach, so that he can maintain the weight, which would cause him to be a little slower, but also be more efficient with his movements.

Even his national team coach complained that he was too slow, and couldn't put him in the game during the important stretches.

[Thespianoid]

I'm looking at the Raptors staff directory and maybe the following people should be fired:

Jama Mahlalela - Assistant Coach/ Player Development
Alex McKechnie - Assistant Coach/Director of Sports Science
Scott McCullough - Head Athletic Trainer
Jon Lee - Strength and Conditioning Coach

I think the first two are fine. They don't have much to do with supervising player's physiques. McKechnie in particular is focused on fatigue recovery and preventing injuries, and he's done a very good job with that - the team had very few lasting injuries last year.

The latter two though, it's possible. I don't know the Raptors staff well enough to say anything.

[Thespianoid]

Man, I am disappointed by that picture. Hopefully, he looks more like the figure in the picture with Amir Johnson that was posted more recently. I am wondering if the Raptors want to keep him at his current weight, so that he could be strong enough to defend in the post, but improve running efficiency in his off season training with the sprint coach, so that he can maintain the weight, which would cause him to be a little slower, but also be more efficient with his movements.

Even his national team coach complained that he was too slow, and couldn't put him in the game during the important stretches.

I think Jonas was strong enough to defend the post his first year. I've been looking at some game tape and he did just fine physically holding his position, just his awareness was poor and often he would get beat due to smarts. I suppose more strength would be ideal, but the way he's gone about adding the weight has been purely detrimental.

Also, that recent pic with Amir? He looks about the same, maybe a tiny bit slimmer if anything. As I said when it was first posted, still no definition in arms, and still fat framing the face - the latter a particular hallmark of not being in shape. Can't see his midsection too well as his arms are hiding it, but I'd venture a guess that it's quite similar to where he was last year - still too much weight.

I can believe the Raptors want to keep him at the current weight. I completely and utterly disagree with their approach, but I can't do anything about it. I want Jonas to be in peak physical fitness like he was in those pictures I posted (but with a bit more mass), as he was the most athletic/mobile in those years. But clearly the Raptors organization doesn't feel that's the best way to maximize his talent. Makes zero sense to me.

[SkywalkerAC]

The overreaction in this thread knows no bounds. The guy plays ball the year round, we've got a great training staff, his conditioning at a greater playing weight will/already has come. Chill.