Can Masai Pull Off The Unthinkable?

KrazyP · Post #61 » by **KrazyP** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 2:00 pm

I was a fan of trading for Faried last year when the rumour came up because he was somewhat of an under radar roleplayer who had fallen out of favour in the Nuggets rotation. Spending the summer playing for Team USA and getting the hype/exposure that comes along with it will overinflate his value....the cost acquire will be high and the $$$ cost to retain him on his next contract will be high. He's no longer worth looking at.

That said, I disagree with peoples comments here that he would be a bad fit for the team because Amir is better. Amir is quite possibly my favourite Raptor of all-time but I question his long term durability. The more young depth the Raptors can obtain at PF/C over the coming years, the better.

EMZEDEE · Post #62 » by **EMZEDEE** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 2:00 pm

I don't think getting Faried would be the "unthinkable". As others have mentioned, good player not a good fit on our team. Our team chemistry alone got us a few more wins last season, and should get us even more this season as the players gel even more. Consistency of players/coaches and chemistry is overlooked a lot and severely underated....

Green Backpack · Post #63 » by **Green Backpack** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 2:06 pm

He would be a good replacement for Amir if he leaves via FA

dagger · Post #64 » by **dagger** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 2:10 pm

BrunoSkull wrote:I rather wait and pay slightly more for Millsap after this season, he's ideal stretch 4, vet leadership, solid 2-way, will turn 31 but that's not so bad.

He'd be a much better fit with Jonas than Faried. People really have to remember Faried is looking for a huge pay day and in a couple of years, we have to re-up DeMar who can opt out of his final season, plus give an extension to Jonas (Ross, too, if he's not part of a trade). Any hopes of doing anything big in free agency in 2016 diminish greatly with a Faried extension.

vini_vidi_vici · Post #65 » by **vini_vidi_vici** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 2:33 pm

Faried has some pretty good rim protection. Of 78 qualifiers (FGAs >= 5), hes tied for 27th with a 49.4 FG% against, but only 5 per game.

Altho the DRTG went from 108.6 while on the floor, to 101.4 off, having played just over 55% mins available. Not good, thats a +7.4 difference over 100 possessions. Hes 74th in DRPM (of 88 PFs), a negative defender.

Among 189 players who played >= 25 MPG, Faried was 19th in % of REBs were contested, but his percentage of REBs per chance is average, he was 88th among those same qualifiers at 59.4%.

I dont mind getting him, but for the top perimeter defender/3PT shooter in the starting 5, not so much. I guess its all relative to subsequent moves there after, or the addition of players in said trade. We get much better rebounding from JV, and better defense from Amir, both of who are more efficient and shoot from more distance. Faried had 123 made dunks on 447 FGM, thats 27.6% of his finishes were dunks, and why hes so popular.

Consider he gets ASTd on a third of his FGMs. Edit: My bad, I meant 2/3, 66.7%. Hes 19th in the NBA in 2nd chance points per game, 23% of his volume comes from that. 76% of his volume comes in the paint, so that could help I guess, but hurts DDs spacing (primarily a midrange player), esp if JV is in with him.

Yeezus · Post #66 » by **Yeezus** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 2:49 pm

Not acceptable

Darkseid · Post #67 » by **Darkseid** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 3:32 pm

I don't think we could get him without trading Ross and he's due for an overpay.

No thx

Toni · Post #68 » by **Toni** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 3:37 pm

I think a lot of posters here are seriously underrating Faried's game and his potential. I guess time will tell. I hope we get him.

godkingleonidas · Post #69 » by **godkingleonidas** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 3:46 pm

Green Backpack wrote:He would be a good replacement for Amir if he leaves via FA

I think Ujiri will offer AJ a two-year deal. Probably at 2-3 million per year. His role in the coming years may change/diminish but, I don't see him leaving.

godkingleonidas · Post #70 » by **godkingleonidas** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 3:54 pm

Anatomize wrote:As for Ross, those are truly underwhelming stats on a per 48 basis (using the per 36 obviously makes more sense, but that's not going to make it look any better). Faried has some nice PF stats and is a great hustle player, but he does come with his set of flaws (think a glorified/athletic Reggie Evans). I presume Faried is slightly more valuable on the market when weighed against Ross talent-wise, and it comes down to consistent production versus potential.

Based solely on the shot chart Barnes appears to be the less efficient scorer. Moreover, in the areas where he is effective, he wouldn't provide spacing for other front court players as he would occupy the same area of the floor. I think he's in a bad situation but joining the Raptors wouldn't make it better.

arbsn · Post #71 » by **arbsn** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 4:07 pm

I like it in theory but in reality Amir Johnson is a better player and Faried's style of play won't age well so he's probably peaking right now. I'd rather keep cap flexibility to add a higher caliber piece.

sweetcity · Post #72 » by **sweetcity** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 4:07 pm

i like faried, but i dont think he fits our offense

TheGoodDoctor · Post #73 » by **TheGoodDoctor** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 4:39 pm

The only thing unthinkable about this is that we're setting ourselves up to overpay for a minimal upgrade.

jimmy keys · Post #74 » by **jimmy keys** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 4:53 pm

Risk101 wrote:Anyone else feel that Kenneth Faried is the next possible candidate on the list to be acquired especially after his play with team USA! I mean theres been reports of Masai gunning after the kid.
The Toronto Raptors already have analytics darling Amir Johnson and potential star Jonas Valanciunas up front, but that hasn't stopped them from inquiring about Denver Nuggets forward Kenneth Faried.

Per Alex Kennedy of BasketballInsiders.com:

"The Toronto Raptors have expressed interest in acquiring Denver Nuggets power forward Kenneth Faried before Thursday’s trade deadline, league sources told Basketball Insiders.

Denver is listening to offers for the 24-year-old, but nothing is imminent.”

Despite the difficulties of an uncertain future, Faried has managed to remain productive. His 18.29 player efficiency rating is nearly identical to the 18.52 he posted in 2012-13, per Basketball-Reference.com.

Though the Raptors have a promising young frontcourt, it's not all that surprising they'd be intrigued by Faried. After all, general manager Masai Ujiri was the man who drafted him during his days in Denver's front office. And it's no secret Faried has always possessed one elite skill: rebounding.

When he was drafted, Faried explained on a conference call (via Nate Timmons of SB Nation) why his boarding talents would translate to the NBA: "Because I'm not scared. ...I have a never quit attitude."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1964 ... ver-nugget

Not to mention Demar could be also be helping Masai with recruitment.

They seem pretty friendly to me

Normally I would brush off any attempts of us acquiring a young talent as such as Kenneth Faried but when you have an assassin for a GM anything is possible. I mean we have expiring contracts that could tempt the Nuggets into trading him:

Landry Fields $6,250,000 (age 26)
Charles Hayes $5,958,750 (age 31)
Tyler Hansbrough $3,326,235 (age 28)
Lou Williams $5,450,000 (If It Doesn't Work Out) (age 27)
Deandre Daniels (He could trade his rights) (age 22)

Not to mention some of the draft picks we have acquired so far.

2015 - First round (Own) Second Rounder (To Atl)
2016 - (Own; less favorable of DEN and NYK (via DEN swap for NYK) Second Rounder (More favorable of TOR and BOS to UTA (via MEM) then other to MEM)
2017 (Own) Second Rounder (Own)

I'm not saying we should cripple our future for Faried but when it comes to a fair deal on our end I believe Masai can get it done. Just curious what some of you would give up for Faried and before you make that decision I just want you to know the guy has averaged 12ppg 9rpg 2apg and a block a game with a FG% of 58 in only 27 minutes of floor time! Also watch this clip in its entirety.

Edit: He is also playoff tested in the West with averages of 10ppg 9.33rpg 1 steal per game and shooting at a 56% clip.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaZjWHZF3Bw[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpScHiZP7l4[/youtube]

Also if anyone is inquiring about Faried's contract:

2014 - $2,249,768
2015 - $3,257,664 (Restricted free agent)

Is it worth sticking the course with Amir Johnson?

Or looking for the next candidate? We have every other position locked up.

PG - Kyle Lowry (age 28),/G. Vasquez(age 27)/Will Cherry(age 23)
SG - DeMar DeRozan(age 25)/Lou Williams(age 27)/ J. Hamilton (age 23)
SF - Terrence Ross (age 23)/James Johnson(age 27)/ Landry Fields(age 26)/Bruno Caboclo(age 18)
PF - Amir Johnson(age 26)/ P. Patterson(age 25), / T. Hansbrough(age 28)
C - J. Valanciunas(age 22)/ Chuck Hayes (age 31)/Lucas Nogueira (age 22)

Is this really The Unthinkable OP :lol:

? Faried is nice, but hardly impossible to aquire.

I thought you were going to claim we make a run at Anthony Davis, that would be unthinkable not trading for Ken Faried. Common man don't exaggerate.

hkr · Post #75 » by **hkr** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 5:56 pm

cammac wrote:The problem with Faried is that he really isn't a starter at PF and in many ways similar to Amir in that both are great players but that little notch below starter.

They are similar in that they are both power forwards with unpolished offensive games who still score efficiently. However Faried is superior to Amir in most ways. Faried scores much more than Amir and grabs far more rebounds. Also Faried doesn't have Amir's big weakness, the propensity to foul.

mrsocko wrote:Power forward is the easiest position to fill. There are many good ones. It's the one place you can save money with more role/specialist player type guys. Amir and Patt fit that role to a tee. When's the last time a PF took anyone to the NBA championship......NEVER. (Duncan is a center)

Not only both of the claims are false (Faried is far better than average PF, and KG and Dirk are PFs who led their teams to championship), discussing a previous model really isn't all that useful. If I tell you that a team can win a championship without any 20PPG scorer, many will tell me I'm wrong by regurgitating well accepted wisdoms like "you cannot win a championship without an alpha dog scorer", etc. But that's exactly what the Spurs did.

A team often gets stuck with unproductive players because they look at the style of the player, not how efficient the player is. The Raptors lived through that very tale with Bargnani. There are many different ways a player can be productive and more than one ways to win the championship, but you need productive players regardless, not the style previously accepted as the way to win championship.

cammac · Post #76 » by **cammac** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 6:15 pm

hkr wrote:
cammac wrote:The problem with Faried is that he really isn't a starter at PF and in many ways similar to Amir in that both are great players but that little notch below starter.

They are similar in that they are both power forwards with unpolished offensive games who still score efficiently. However Faried is superior to Amir in most ways. Faried scores much more than Amir and grabs far more rebounds. Also Faried doesn't have Amir's big weakness, the propensity to foul.

mrsocko wrote:Power forward is the easiest position to fill. There are many good ones. It's the one place you can save money with more role/specialist player type guys. Amir and Patt fit that role to a tee. When's the last time a PF took anyone to the NBA championship......NEVER. (Duncan is a center)

Not only both of the claims are false (Faried is far better than average PF, and KG and Dirk are PFs who led their teams to championship), discussing a previous model really isn't all that useful. If I tell you that a team can win a championship without any 20PPG scorer, many will tell me I'm wrong by regurgitating well accepted wisdoms like "you cannot win a championship without an alpha dog scorer", etc. But that's exactly what the Spurs did.

A team often gets stuck with unproductive players because they look at the style of the player, not how efficient the player is. The Raptors lived through that very tale with Bargnani. There are many different ways a player can be productive and more than one ways to win the championship, but you need productive players regardless, not the style previously accepted as the way to win championship.

I am likely the least likely Amir fan boy on this forum but the one thing that Farid lacks is defense which Amir provides . To get Farid as a RFA free agent you are looking at $12 million and he certainly isn't worth that and I'm not big on resigning Amir either.

EventHorizon · Post #77 » by **EventHorizon** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 6:34 pm

dagger wrote:
BrunoSkull wrote:I rather wait and pay slightly more for Millsap after this season, he's ideal stretch 4, vet leadership, solid 2-way, will turn 31 but that's not so bad.

He'd be a much better fit with Jonas than Faried. People really have to remember Faried is looking for a huge pay day and in a couple of years, we have to re-up DeMar who can opt out of his final season, plus give an extension to Jonas (Ross, too, if he's not part of a trade). Any hopes of doing anything big in free agency in 2016 diminish greatly with a Faried extension.

Maybe with Jonas specifically but not with the overall team. Millsap is in the lower range of PF in terms of PER/Usage while Faried is right up there with Amir Johnson. We've already seen that Jonas does not get enough touches, it would only get worse with guys like Millsap unfortunately who is less productive too.

KL78192020 · Post #78 » by **KL78192020** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 7:12 pm

I wish we could get Horford on this team, would be the perfect with next to Val. Would be a great target for 2016.

Thespianoid · Post #79 » by **Thespianoid** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 7:45 pm

Inevitable wrote:If we are going to upgrade our PF spot we need a guy that can stretch the D and put the ball on the floor and penetrate to the hole.

see: Kristaps Porzingis. Add in shot-blocking/rim protection. If Masai can wrangle a top 10/lottery pick for next year without losing any core pieces, that would be pulling off the unthinkable.

zero the hero · Post #80 » by **zero the hero** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 8:11 pm

This can very easily be summed up: Amir is a defensive anchor, Faried is not. His rebounding advantage doesn't mean much when the other team is driving in and making their layups. No deal.